Why demon barbs are superior to sage barbs?

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

Surely you have a lot of end game barbs right ? b:chuckle

10% HP = 6% HP because it is the difference between 170% base and 180% base. And it doesnt matter if your +12 or +2, 6% is 6%. 6% is nice but not that awesome. What you are trying to say is that 24%+ damage output for demons is insignificant, but 6% health is everything. Oh common.....

BTW, what spike dmg do we really lack ? Are you talking about a vit sage barb that lucks on a zerk crit arma ? Very situational, not all that practical, and more about vit vs str than demon vs sage.

Botting x10 is illegal btw. And no end game farming is not inferior to botting x10. I dont bot because it is not even worth the time clearing my inventory and sending my toon to a location. Farming for up to 20m per hour (double when its x2 and nope, not talking TT) or selling TM lunar is more convenient. (neither is APS barb exclusive, just saying no to those who think illegal botting is the best way to become rich)

XDDD ya Bottng seems to be the way to go these days...**** those 300x tt3-3 I did every single day during the last x2. Can a Sage barb keep up with my farming speed? No, not at all. They can only dream about it. APS is a huge pro for Demon Barbs, even if most new bosses are aps nerfed. Perfect for stuff like TMs and any other PvE-related content like World-Bosses and such.

I really don't know why any sage barb always rides on those 6% HP...I really don't understand that.

If I get ganked by sins in NW (and I find myself in such situations alot) then I just use my demon roar and slash > slash > slash...most of the sins killed themselves. Demon roar rocks (unfortunatly not in open World PvP xDD but meh). Demon Frighten is a nice asset as well although the odds are low.

Still. I don't have any chi issue during PvP or PvE. A little trick to those "Sage" Barbs. Grab your deicide or regicide claws and built up chi while debuffing 10% of HP away from your enemy. Rocks like hell. OFC Sage barbs can do that too, but most Sages refuse to stat more then 60 DEX so...you figure. BEsides that...slam and Bestial Rage are sufficient for building up chi. I wanna see you constantly switching tiger forms while doing serious PvP. Don't make me laugh. While constantly switching you might find yourself in situations when you die on the CD of the tiger form. I rather BKI while being freezed and have anything rdy.

The 5% crit reduction on the demon tiger form has been laughed at all the time...but imho it's amazing. Can make a huge difference if you ask me.

10% higher paralyze chance on Mighty Swing is another PRO of demons. Only very few player are capable of utilizing the 1 sec lower CD of Sage Mighty Swing and only in very few situations that would be possible to begin with. The real killer in Demon is Stomp of the beast king. Never misses! The only way to really utilize the OP new proc of that skill. Poison fang and Blood Bath are both way better as well.

So you see...it's not only BO. Demon is by far superior in nearly any given situation. Even Bestial Rage is better...faster chi rebuilding is more important then a longer lasting effect most of the time.

Simply put. A sage barb against me with equal gears -> I win. While the sage constantly misses I keep the debuff from Stomp in tact and hit on him with crits all the time. NO. Chance. At. ALL. BTW I tested this alrdy...so don't try to argue on that. Sage barbs will always lose to demon barbs under equal terms and with both being skilled players ofc.

slamstone wrote: »

Pls don't try to generalize your idea of sage barbs as an absolute truth.

If you haven't met one, doesn't mean there are no sage barbs with endgame gear. Again pls try to refrain yourself from the god complex, as you FROM MY POINT OF VIEW have no idea what a sage barb can do.

These debates have been going on for some time, it has been discussed and rediscussed and the general conclusion is: everyone with their numbers, each side has strengths and weaknesses, claiming APS RULZ or DEMON RULZ just shows how little do u know about what a sage barb can do or cannot do at equal gear and evolution.

P.S. If you're interested in what i have to say about sage barbs or what numbers they can reach in time (depends on the post date) just use a search in the barb forum, i have no intention of repeating myself.

xD I just told you why Demon barbs are superior. There is no "my opinion" this is the truth. This game is made up of numbers and digits and follows a pre-programmed way. In a world like this there is a 1 and 0, a yes or no, a good or bad and ofc a better and a worse.

If you throw in all the theoretical stuff and calculate the odds then you see, without a doubt, that demons have the upper hand by far. If you happen to be a better player then the demon barb then I for one have no doubt, that you will win nvm how the odds are.

And man...who do you think I am. And here I thought it would've alrdy been known that I am far from being a casual player. OFC I was interested in how Sage barbs are going these days and ofc I rolled a maxed out sage barbs... (well you know..places where that is possible without selling your soul) and compared them. I wouldn't claim to know that demons are better if I wouldn't have tested it so many times with so many different setup and ppl.

Outta your comments I assume you are a good Sage Barb. You seem to have no problem to stand your barb against other players and in PvE. But it seems to me that you have yet to see a competitive demon barb that is actually a great player.

In the end...the player skill will matter more then the differences between sage and demon. Especially as a barb. Demons got more benefits then Sage but tbh nothing that would push them godly over Sage barbs. no no. Demons got the advantage but it's nothing critical and especially nothing a good player couldn't compensate. I'm just saying. If both are great and equally skilled players well...the demon wins. That is a fact.

Still. If you feel like I'm missing some killer advantages of the sages then feel free to tell me. (:

Joe - Morai wrote: »

....

That is kinda the thing, you consider better what you feel it is better for you. I consider better what i feel is better for me.

Maybe i consider better for my playstyle a 20 seconds bestial rage even if it doesn't add that much chi in the 1st 10 seconds, maybe i prefer more hp for a less accuracy, maybe i prefer bigger chances of a CC even if it's only a freeze and not a stun. Maybe i prefer a bigger spike damage instead of a more constant but somewhat lower crit damage.

Going on a limb and assuming that skill is better just because you feel it's better suited for you, is nothing that can be taken as an absolute truth for every playstyle.

So after we proved demon is better in forum, let's go back to PWI...
Where demon books are worth ****, and u rarely find a demon barb...

Ppl say demon barbs are like Aliens... Every1 knows they exist, but no1 ever seen one...

b:bye

I havent seen any high/top geared demon barbs yet in HT...
Cant really tell how a duel or pvp experience against one would be...
Most of them are just fail path claws barbs...

and yet, i dont think u saw a good sage barb either lol... Missing? im pure vit, and yet got 7k accuracy XD

Joe - Morai wrote: »

Any pro gaming barb I know is demon.

>Any pro gaming barb I know is demon
>Any pro gaming barb I know
>Pro. Gaming. Barb.
>Pro. Gaming.
>PWI

Thank you for this wonderful laugh.

Joe - Morai wrote: »

Lol what has being pure vit to do with your accu? 2x Golden Soulgems and there you go in BloodBath.

I've playing sage Barb for a long time a while ago on different servers and I switched to demon out of the reasons I alrdy stated.

Fail aps barb? Hammering on you with max possible interval until you are purged with my r8r spirit blackhole, then I switch to my deicides and debuff your HP by 10 % and hit on you til you drop with my r9 afterwards. If you buff yourself or spark or purify in any way you will be purged and debuffed again in seconds. same goes for solid shield.

Underestimating one classes capabilities even if it's your very own class can end up deadly for lots of ppl and did ofc. Using claws and interval gears can be a great tactical asset.

Man I really get the feeling I am nearly the only one that ever got the honour to play with pro gamers...wth. Even the fact that most ppl don't know the tactic I just explained is unbelieveable to me.

I had it all, I tried it all and I discussed it all alrdy in max detail...if I could be a human that doesn't care about anything I would be grateful. Why? because I could stop writing to you blindfolded fools alrdy.

You guys don't have to believe a single word I say. Feel free to ignore me. But if it's the truth you seek then god damnit try it out. Roll a demon barb on any server you like and try those strategies. you will be blown away. promise!

That means, i hardly miss, not including the typical -50% evasion from our BO... wich makes misses something very rare So i didnt even need to put points on dex to get a VERY HIGH accuracy...

And yes, I ABSOLUTLY laught at any bm... barb... sin that goes apsing me lol b:laugh b:laugh b:laugh b:laugh

XxWilxX - Heavens Tear wrote: »

That means, i hardly miss, not including the typical -50% evasion from our BO... wich makes misses something very rare So i didnt even need to put points on dex to get a VERY HIGH accuracy...

And yes, I ABSOLUTLY laught at any bm... barb... sin that goes apsing me lol b:laugh b:laugh b:laugh b:laugh

I'd so wish to fight you! Really, really bad xD just to show you that you won't be laughing at all.

OPKossy wrote: »

...


I don't know why people say the things they do on the official forums for the game. Anyways, some stuff has been removed and I'd rather it not come back up. Carry on with the relevant sage/demon debate.

Thanks Kossy...can you ban that particular player as well? xDD ya I know you can't...but ppl like him...grrrrrrrrrr....

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

Ok, i now done my first TW. It was a good one even though we lost.
I probably have to take 1 step back in the demon/sage vit/str debate.

No matter how superior demon strength is in PvE and 1v1, sage vit barbs are needed for the catas.

My name came more to its right though. I want to be a BM. I hate being stuck to a catapult. It requires a totally different playstyle. You need to survive to let that thing attack. You need to play safe as much as possible. I just cant do it. When people are hitting me, i cant just stand there in tiger and invoke/SS/dew hoping someone else will take care of that. I maybe need anger management, but when people are hitting me, i jump up and go bash their skulls. My brains know where to find holy path, occult ice, a quick AD. It looks at chi as a damage potential and loves to triple spark. Its hard to even think about invoke.

So ye. Im a BM. not a barb. I almost feel i should make a restat to vit for the team. But i cant play like that. Ill be in PWI only 2 more months and i want to enjoy it being an attacker together with my BM buddy. I will remain a WannaBM. But for the TW teams same, i hope other people who can enjoy that style will keep making vit barbs.

You get used to it. I just bash out my berserkers wrath from time to time and it's fine. If ppl are standing right in front of me I try to para/purge them for others to kill them with a bit more ease.

Just look at some of my vids. Especially in endgame scenarios of TW Demon is superior. Why? BKI. I can constantly sustain my whole squad with buffs and chi if I get supported well or while being invoked. That is a huge advantage. **** the negligable defense and ya well...10% HP would be neat...but if 10% HP matter then it has to be a very equal TW.

It's important to learn how to not get yourself killed by rushing into enemies xD at the beginning I too had a huge problem with that xDDDD

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

Well, We were 4 barbs, 2 of them have 50k HP, 1 has 60k + JOSD. Needless to say i was always the first to die with my 38k, no JOSD and agressive playstyle.

And when you get to enemy base and youre attacking the crystal, every bit you live longer ofc is better. Should have realised that a bit more before i started. Could have done better then. But still.... 50k with a little more defence takes almost twice as much to kill as 38k without that extra bit of defence. 60k JOSD is ofc a totally different story, but thats gear difference, not cultivation.

While you are indeed right here please do not question your built. Especially not for TW. A STR-Built barb has alot of pros even when pulling a cata. you can actually activively defend yourself while I assume that the other barbs are just big targets w/o real DMG output-

Even if you think that your HP/def is not sufficient for destroying crystals/towers then you can still distract the enemy and kill alot of the lower geared enemies meanwhile. On the other hand you coudl assist the main DD squad as well by trying to purge/para a called target. You might want to stay out of the main line of fire then tho.

If you take total advantage of your built and situation in TW you can add alot to the positive outcome of a TW I think.

I like this slamstone guy

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

Yup, thats pretty much how i feel about it. (except that i dont think a demon vit barb will be optimal and i think that JOSD is the best shard on any toon, arguably just not worth the money for the small improve over vit stones)

I think next TW, im gonna try act more like a ranged DD and BM. Instead of trying constantly to fight like i do in 1v1, chasing them, trying to stun them etc, im gonna try to do fewer offensive actions, but plan them better. Try to do get in some sparked onslaught - berserkers wrath (with CE or tea for the chi) and try to join the BM on his HF runs and run in IGed to do onslaught-arma on the HF. Gonna be difficult though to hold back on the continuous agression and take the time to save up chi and prepare that ****

I would even suggest that you go full support barb. Distract enemies when you can but focus on buffing bumping up chi for your squadmates. That can make a major difference.

I really do think that only very few players have the insight to see that demon barbs are best for TW, even if it only comes down to the ability to supply your squad with chi. That makes a major difference.

So lets say you got a maxed out Demon vit/josd Barb and a sage one. I'd always take the demon. Demons can gain chi much faster thus being able to spark/invoke more often and, like I said before, can supply chi to the 9 remaining squad mates, even other barbs.

What can sage barbs do while standing at the crystal or the towers? exactly, cept for surviving they can do NOTHING to be useful which practically renders them useless even for tw in direct comparision with demon barbs in the majority of situations.

Ok, I admit, the sage spark is way better for TW and such. But lets be honest here. While every single enemy hits on you with all their CC skills and stuff...you won't even triple spark. You can use faith and then use triple spark ok, but only very few TW Barbs have Faith on their genies...unfortunatly =P

When you are max vit/vit or max vit/josd then there is no way around a max vit/mag genie with faith for tw.