New "stun" skill effect

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · January 2014

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

This is what it looks like..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSzMHDu5wjQ#t=418s

That barb looks like he has around 35k hp and the archer has 29k. It's pretty stupid how much that skill is spammed.

:S

i see an a archer

thats criting 99% of the time,

kiting massive hits like a barb,

getting knocked over by a kitty a few times

hm...

/cheer barb
its annoying but not completely bad if your not being ganked in the process, which he wasnt

XXHotXx - Morai · January 2014

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

This is what it looks like..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSzMHDu5wjQ#t=418s

That barb looks like he has around 35k hp and the archer has 29k. It's pretty stupid how much that skill is spammed.

the proc chance and the spammability of this skill are beyond ridicolous they should at least 30 sec cooldown\set a chi cost

consider that barb didnt use cornered\invoke etch NOTHING besides spamming that skill and look how much time he stood...

ridicolous

Geshwur - Raging Tide · January 2014

Stunning through antistun is designed to be anti-purify spell, which was also considered (and still is by many on my server) to have been gamebreaking as far as PvP...

And over the years, PWI introduces something, PWI determines it needs nerf, so they introduce something MORE OP to counter the OP, which needs a counter by something EVEN MORE OP etc.

Basically, it will probably get a counter soon, and that counter will be ridiculous.

Onatop - Lost City · January 2014

u guyz lol, they only thing op about that skill is that it cost nothing to cast, but then again purify spell cost nothing either and it can prock so many times. In that sense it's not op. There r like 3 close range classes, bm/barb/sin, every other class got some kind of kiting ability to get away, so it's not like that skill can lock u indefinitely. If only bm new stun didn't cost anything either, poor bms.....

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · January 2014

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

the proc chance and the spammability of this skill are beyond ridicolous they should at least 30 sec cooldown\set a chi cost

consider that barb didnt use cornered\invoke etch NOTHING besides spamming that skill and look how much time he stood...

ridicolous

its annoying and obnoxious but not exactly deadly as opposed to other things out there thats spammable....

its almost as if you know a skill is moreso decent if some top geared DD that avalanches through enemies, start complaining about it.

Quilue - Sanctuary · January 2014

Lol the only reason that vid almost looked like a fight is because that barb is under-geared and doesn't even look like he is trying to kill. Watch a more experienced barb fight and see what happens.

SilverMayhem - Archosaur · January 2014

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

This is what it looks like..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSzMHDu5wjQ#t=418s

That barb looks like he has around 35k hp and the archer has 29k. It's pretty stupid how much that skill is spammed.

So you mean to tell me that because a evenly geared match between a Barb and an Archer. Bother R9 3rd cast and probably (Seeing as he is 105, but just a assumption) Endgame sharding. Being that the Archer is Demon (More DD, more Crits, less CD and more Evasion) and the Barb is sage (More HP + Phy. Def in Kitty form) that this barb skill because it is slightly spammable it is considered OP?

That archer only died because he got ganked at the end. The fact that it even lasted that long is really because the barb is obvious well geared and well skilled. But with that said, the archer still had him kitted, stunned and rolled out of everything that was happening. The knock down didn't really seem to affect him as much as ppl would like to assume. Maybe on an AA class that has low Channel and can't stand up to a barb in close range. But this archer post does not show brokenness. If anything. It shows how Unbalanced Archers are compared to other classes when played correctly.

I have this skill, I have the Skill amp one too. Im demon. This sage barb probably Zerks what i crit with my warsoul +10 axes. I actually applaud this barb and wish to ask him what he did to get CLOSE to this archer to actually start DDing with the EASE that he did. No it wasn't because of the new Knock Down.

How about we start a Different thread. The "Archer skill that will Skill Amp(When frozen) + Weapon Proc in a volley of 5 or so arrows (Fan shape like Swell?) with an over 700% weapon + Fixed dmg rate". No? b:surrender Not op or broken? But me knocking you down a couple of times makes you scream at PWI "Why you give barbs CC skills so they now have a way to fight back?".

Sometimes.. SOMETIMES. I look back at this game and say, "hell, pwi. Its the community. Its not you." b:shutup

XXHotXx - Morai · January 2014

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

its annoying and obnoxious but not exactly deadly as opposed to other things out there thats spammable....

its almost as if you know a skill is moreso decent if some top geared DD that avalanches through enemies, start complaining about it.

how about you are in tw, you get reeled in + roar by a bm in the air, and a barb starts spamming that skill on you, then you are dead then repeat for next target

or a seeker transposition-telestuns you and you get spammed by new mighty swing same ****... you are dead, repeat for next target

1on1 doesnt have that big impact,

but for how pwi is today, so centred on mass pvp, that skill is almost as op\game breaking\mechanics breakings as sage tidal

MissCherie - Harshlands · January 2014

In my opinion there's way too much stun and **** like that in game.

Aeliah - Dreamweaver · January 2014

A barb is now just as dangerous as a veno or archer when I'm pulling the flag. 2 barbs hitting me with the new mighty swing is a near guaranteed death sentence... impossible to break free from.

The skill doesn't take skill to use because it goes through nearly everything (except belief or immunity). The barb hardly needs to need to look at you while using it. He can simply spam it. Doesn't need to watch his chi, or your buffs or debuffs. Just spam it.

My little 25k hp barb with **** gear can do the SAME thing to DarkSkiesx (best of the best geared archer) as the one you saw in the video. Its EASY. Mighty swing. Hit, hit, aoe 2 second stun, mighty swing, hit hit hit, hit, mighty swing... hit hit hit hit mighty swing... etc. Eventually I only immobilize instead of stunning, he puts in wings of grace, then I wait till his 3 second immunity is over, then mighty swing again... probably stunning him through his anti stun. Lololol.

The skill is brokenly powerful. To make it fair, do one of the following things:

-Make it avoidable
-make it purifiable
-make it cost a lot more chi
-increase its cooldown significantly

Any of of these would pretty much make the skill OK by my books. Again, too many pros, zero cons. Its too good to justify the fact that its spammable and gives chi.

Quilue - Sanctuary · January 2014

SilverMayhem - Archosaur wrote: »

So you mean to tell me that because a evenly geared match between a Barb and an Archer. Bother R9 3rd cast and probably (Seeing as he is 105, but just a assumption) Endgame sharding. Being that the Archer is Demon (More DD, more Crits, less CD and more Evasion) and the Barb is sage (More HP + Phy. Def in Kitty form) that this barb skill because it is slightly spammable it is considered OP?

That archer only died because he got ganked at the end. The fact that it even lasted that long is really because the barb is obvious well geared and well skilled. But with that said, the archer still had him kitted, stunned and rolled out of everything that was happening. The knock down didn't really seem to affect him as much as ppl would like to assume. Maybe on an AA class that has low Channel and can't stand up to a barb in close range. But this archer post does not show brokenness. If anything. It shows how Unbalanced Archers are compared to other classes when played correctly.

I have this skill, I have the Skill amp one too. Im demon. This sage barb probably Zerks what i crit with my warsoul +10 axes. I actually applaud this barb and wish to ask him what he did to get CLOSE to this archer to actually start DDing with the EASE that he did. No it wasn't because of the new Knock Down.

How about we start a Different thread. The "Archer skill that will Skill Amp(When frozen) + Weapon Proc in a volley of 5 or so arrows (Fan shape like Swell?) with an over 700% weapon + Fixed dmg rate". No? b:surrender Not op or broken? But me knocking you down a couple of times makes you scream at PWI "Why you give barbs CC skills so they now have a way to fight back?".

Sometimes.. SOMETIMES. I look back at this game and say, "hell, pwi. Its the community. Its not you." b:shutup

Think for a minute if an endgame geared barb gets hit for about that much from archers. Getting hit 2k in melee range by an archer is not "evenly geared." Getting crit 10k by a physical wing skill is not "evenly geared" either. What that actually translate to is having very **** gear. He probably has G16 armor.

If that archer didn't get ganked, he would be able to AFK and not die. That barb isn't even trying to kill. No debuffs, genie debuffs, purge attempts (unless I missed it?), nothing.

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide · January 2014

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

A barb is now just as dangerous as a veno or archer when I'm pulling the flag. 2 barbs hitting me with the new mighty swing is a near guaranteed death sentence... impossible to break free from.

The skill doesn't take skill to use because it goes through nearly everything (except belief or immunity). The barb hardly needs to need to look at you while using it. He can simply spam it. Doesn't need to watch his chi, or your buffs or debuffs. Just spam it.

My little 25k hp barb with **** gear can do the SAME thing to DarkSkiesx (best of the best geared archer) as the one you saw in the video. Its EASY. Mighty swing. Hit, hit, aoe 2 second stun, mighty swing, hit hit hit, hit, mighty swing... hit hit hit hit mighty swing... etc. Eventually I only immobilize instead of stunning, he puts in wings of grace, then I wait till his 3 second immunity is over, then mighty swing again... probably stunning him through his anti stun. Lololol.

The skill is brokenly powerful. Make it avoidable, make it cost a lot more chi, increase its cooldown significantly, SOMETHING.

u have about 15 ways to ignore that on ur cleric from just top o my head ... LRN2ADAPT ... most broken 1v1 class qqing over sumthin ... joke a ****** JOKE b:laugh

Onatop - Lost City · January 2014

barb/bm still got to catch u crazy people with purify and insane kiting ability for them to even initiate stunning, and there r people with good kiting ability. Not to mention purify spell prock ofc.

SilverMayhem - Archosaur · January 2014

Auerlius - Archosaur wrote: »

+1 finally someone with common sense. with changes like these in the game 1v1 with a cleric is pointless. everyone should just make barbs sins archers and seekers

Im sorry what? I knock you down, you mad now? You mad bro.. you mad bro?

Pfft, i've knocked down, Purged, Amped and crited Siao everytime I see her in NW and guess what. She stands up, dust off and bites my tail off and then dangles it in my face to be a good kitty and play with a ball of string.

Are you honestly saying that my Knock down makes you feel that your Sleep, Seal, Freeze, stun (?) and Immobilize skills feel useless now? Because, you know. I run at a full 15 meter speed 100% of the time out of kitty form with 35k+ and 10k+ magic def that cna't be stopped. >.>

Poor cleric. Auer. They said you were a pretty good cleric. From you post, and your tone. I'd say otherwise. You are QQing about inbalances that have no merit. Barbs have freezes. Okay... thats to stop you from running away. Because guess what.. you run away... You know the proc rate on them? I do Demon Frighten 20%, Alacrity 50%, Surf impact 50%. Ohh im soo sorry, does my 2 sec stun out of kitty form scare you? Oh i forgot about my freeze in kitty form that is actually our ONLY ranged kitty skill. 6 secs.

Give me a break.

I freeze you seal and run. I freeze you sleep and run. .-. If Cleric CCing abilities arn't a Troll. Then idk what is.

XXHotXx - Morai · January 2014

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

... things

The skill doesn't take skill to use because it goes through nearly everything (except belief or immunity).
...things

it goes through faith\belief

only counter is ironguard

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · January 2014

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

how about you are in tw, you get reeled in + roar by a bm in the air, and a barb starts spamming that skill on you, then you are dead then repeat for next target

or a seeker transposition-telestuns you and you get spammed by new mighty swing same ****... you are dead, repeat for next target

1on1 doesnt have that big impact,

but for how pwi is today, so centred on mass pvp, that skill is almost as op\game breaking\mechanics breakings as sage tidal

couple things;
- learn to hit and run.... and fast
- at least 80% of the time you know its the same pple, watch their positions
- R999+12 josd isnt invinsible. Dont rambo, seen that with too many pple thinking they can take those few hits.
- **** happens to anyone, do not think your above a well played teamwork.
- if it actually takes 3v1 to kill that person, then grats to the 3.

Aeliah - Dreamweaver · January 2014

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

it goes through faith\belief

only counter is ironguard

...pretty sure belief resists... If you are right though, its even more broken than I thought.

SilverMayhem - Archosaur · January 2014

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The skill is brokenly powerful. To make it fair, do one of the following things:

-Make it avoidable
-make it purifiable
-make it cost a lot more chi
-increase its cooldown significantly

Yes yes. When talking skill only (No apoth or anything like that) this skill should be nerfed in some manner so that a barb can back to having limited CC and just being a meat bag for other players to hit b:surrender

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide · January 2014

lets make evrything avoidable then how bout nerfing SOG to be able to resist with anti stun and how bout nerfing all cleric buff procs how bout nerfing plume shell so it dont work in pvp how bout making all arcane gear require 500str ... thats just as stupid as u guys qqing over a paralyze get a grip niblets b:laugh

XXHotXx - Morai · January 2014

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

couple things;
- learn to hit and run.... and fast
- at least 80% of the time you know its the same pple, watch their positions
- R999+12 josd isnt invinsible. Dont rambo, seen that with too many pple thinking they can take those few hits.
- **** happens to anyone, do not think your above a well played teamwork.

a wizard cant hit and run and fast xD but yea poking its kinda doable by other classes i guess,
eventho poking wont take you anywhere in mass pvp you'll need CCs and AA at endgame, and that new mighty swing is one hell of an uncounterable CC

what i mean is that now barbs besides having the best survivability in game now they can also purge \ stunlock, making them a godlike support class

if you are a TW orga, start using spare barbs as hard CC support assets in TWs and you ll see what i mean

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

...pretty sure belief resists... If you are right though, its even more broken than I thought.

nope, tested, goes trough faith\belief

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · January 2014

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide wrote: »

lets make evrything avoidable then how bout nerfing SOG to be able to resist with anti stun and how bout nerfing all cleric buff procs how bout nerfing plume shell so it dont work in pvp how bout making all arcane gear require 500str ... thats just as stupid as u guys qqing over a paralyze get a grip niblets b:laugh

make crits happen only once every 5min. For every class.

now thats fair!

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide · January 2014

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

a wizard cant hit and run and fast xD

u gotta be joking? please tell me so or u kinda wasted ur coins on a class u cant play b:chuckle

XXHotXx - Morai · January 2014

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide wrote: »

u gotta be joking? please tell me so or u kinda wasted ur coins on a class u cant play b:chuckle

wait repeat me which class has the longest channelling time skills in game

SilverMayhem - Archosaur · January 2014

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Think for a minute if an endgame geared barb gets hit for about that much from archers. Getting hit 2k in melee range by an archer is not "evenly geared." What that actually translate to is having very **** gear.

If that archer didn't get ganked, he would be able to AFK and not die. That barb isn't even trying to kill. No debuffs, genie debuffs, nothing.

maybe you are right about the barb not being full Endgame. I did see the weapon being rrr9. idk if its +12 or +1 or sharding. It had zerk. He was sage. He seems to have the skill. And i can't say that that barb wasn't trying his hardest. I saw EP go off. I saw other skills being used to keep that archer in place. You can't assume that because the barb didn't or wasn't able to, kill that archer and because the archer coudn't move that the barb was stalling. Secondly, Debuffs. I have no debuffs out of kitty form besides the useless Armor Pierce. I rather not use my chi on that skill. Thank you.

Maybe if the tables were turned, gear was switched. Who knows. I do know from what I can see. The archer got off multi purge procs. Was opping his way through half the vid. Im sorry if my Knock down annoys you. And it can very well be called a game changer has new skills should be. But broken? Not convinced. As long as it has a chance to proc or freeze, its not broken. You as an archer have too many skills that can help you take little to know dmg and move out of **** situations.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · January 2014

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

wait repeat me which class has the longest channelling time skills in game

you can use shadow binder to avoid stuns while your channeling the last few seconds with that extra run speed

if these barbs and DDs are constantly doing this to you....

well that should tell you who really is the OP one that needs to be rid of right.

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide · January 2014

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

wait repeat me which class has the longest channelling time skills in game

ever heard of apotheracy and genies ? b:laugh jo0ke of a wizard with only spark in genie and only carries IG ?

XXHotXx - Morai · January 2014

i've no idea how you guys play, but if i am getting hard CCed i'll never use apo\genie\chi for offensive purposes

still all the other "caster classes" have better mag dps than wizard:

mystic fast\no chann skills
psy fast\no chann
venos fast\no chann
seekers fast\blade aff

etch... cmon please dont start trying to argument wizards has fast skills\ highest mag dps cause they are the dph class for excellence

Aeliah - Dreamweaver · January 2014

SilverMayhem - Archosaur wrote: »

Yes yes. When talking skill only (No apoth or anything like that) this skill should be nerfed in some manner so that a barb can back to having limited CC and just being a meat bag for other players to hit b:surrender

Nah, think about it: any possible counter I can conceive, you can wait it out then go right back to spamming mighty swing every 5 seconds. Lets look at ALL the possible ways to avoid a stun from a barb as a cleric:

1) ironguard - 12 seconds then 1 minute 48 seconds till i can use again; other apoth - 6 or 8 seconds (sutra or pan gu essence) and ~2 minutes till can use again
2) absolute domain - 135 genie energy and 3 minutes till i can use again
3) double or triple spark - 2 or 3 sparks expended, average of 45s to 1.5 minute to recover while in combat(while possible to avoid with sparks, requires impeccable timing/ping)

Speed skills to kite from barb? none
Inate anti-stun? none
Genie resists to the new stun? none
Flying into air? Major hazard of barb dropping you to ground/doing massive damage.

Let imagine that I use all three ways back to back for maximum avoidance of barb stun (with perfect timing) while in a situation where I can't directly focus on the barb (any group situation ever).

12 seconds + 5 seconds + 3 seconds = 20 seconds.

With perfect timing I can be resistant to your stun about 20 seconds out of every 120 to 180 seconds. This just isn't practical: you can use this stun EVERY 5 SECONDS AT NO COST while doing FULL DAMAGE to them.

As a cleric, I do have one recourse; I can seal of gods a barb to avoid them for 15s (though I also ensure that the barb is essentially unkillable for that time period as well, which can be a double edged sword in group situations). I can also sleep them in SMALL group situations---in TW or large scale pvp its nearly impossible to prevent somebody from accidentally removing sleep.

Therefore yes, if I can focus exclusively on the barb, I have some ability to keep them at range, assuming I don't mess up at all.

On the other hand, while I have limited options, I've heard even more fierce complaints from other classes, like archers for example. Archers cannot use any cc to keep down the fleet-footed barb from reaching them for too long, and they are heavily reliant on anti-stun. With a cc skill that slices through archers, barbs now have an even more major advantage over archers than they did before.

Look. I don't entirely oppose the idea of a stun thats better than before. Its the spammability of it thats so problematic. Again, any of the following suggestions would be appropriate fixes from my view:

-keep it as is, but make it cost 35-50 chi each time
-keep it as is, but increase cooldown to 15 seconds
-keep chi gain, but make it avoidable with special genie skills of approximately 80 energy
-keep it as unavoidable, but make it purifable (cleric purify, purify proc)
-don't make a genie skill to resist it, but let ordinary antistun resist it (but can't be removed)

So many ways that it'd still be far better than it was before without being ridiculously broken like it is now!

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide · January 2014

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

i've no idea how you guys play, but if i am getting hard CCed i'll never use apo\genie\chi for offensive purposes

still all the other "caster classes" have better mag dps than wizard:

mystic fast\no chann skills
psy fast\no chann
venos fast\no chann
seekers fast\blade aff

etch... cmon please dont start trying to argument wizards has fast skills\ highest mag dps cause they are the dph class for excellence

ur a DD class if u aint playing offensively ur doing it wrong b:laugh

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Nah, think about it: any possible counter I can conceive, you can wait it out then go right back to spamming mighty swing every 5 seconds. Lets look at ALL the possible ways to avoid a stun from a barb as a cleric:

1) ironguard - 12 seconds then 1 minute 48 seconds till i can use again; other apoth - 6 or 8 seconds (sutra or pan gu essence) and ~2 minutes till can use again
2) absolute domain - 135 genie energy and 3 minutes till i can use again
3) double or triple spark - 2 or 3 sparks expended, average of 45s to 1.5 minute to recover while in combat(while possible to avoid with sparks, requires impeccable timing/ping)

Speed skills to kite from barb? none
Inate anti-stun? none
Genie resists to the new stun? none
Flying into air? Major hazard of barb dropping you to ground/doing massive damage.

Let imagine that I use all three ways back to back for maximum avoidance of barb stun (with perfect timing) while in a situation where I can't directly focus on the barb (any group situation ever).

12 seconds + 5 seconds + 3 seconds = 20 seconds.

With perfect timing I can be resistant to your stun about 20 seconds out of every 120 to 180 seconds. This just isn't practical: you can use this stun EVERY 5 SECONDS AT NO COST while doing FULL DAMAGE to them.

As a cleric, I do have one recourse; I can seal of gods a barb to avoid them for 15s (though I also ensure that the barb is essentially unkillable for that time period as well, which can be a double edged sword in group situations). I can also sleep them in SMALL group situations---in TW or large scale pvp its nearly impossible to prevent somebody from accidentally removing sleep.

Therefore yes, if I can focus exclusively on the barb, I have some ability to keep them at range, assuming I don't mess up at all.

On the other hand, while I have limited options, I've heard even more fierce complaints from other classes, like archers for example. Archers cannot use any cc to keep down the fleet-footed barb from reaching them for too long, and they are heavily reliant on anti-stun. With a cc skill that slices through archers, barbs now have an even more major advantage over archers than they did before.

Look. I don't entirely oppose the idea of a stun thats better than before. Its the spammability of it thats so problematic. Again, any of the following suggestions would be appropriate fixes from my view:

-keep it as is, but make it cost 35-50 chi each time
-keep it as is, but increase cooldown to 15 seconds
-keep chi gain, but make it avoidable with special genie skills of approximately 80 energy
-keep it as unavoidable, but make it purifable (cleric purify, purify proc)
-don't make a genie skill to resist it, but let ordinary antistun resist it (but can't be removed)

So many ways that it'd still be far better than it was before without being ridiculously broken like it is now!

here we go again with the math an shyzz u expect us to believe u found a barb u cant kill now in 1v1 due to this change ? cmon now b:chuckle

XXHotXx - Morai · January 2014

Madebyvisa - Raging Tide wrote: »

ur a DD class if u aint playing offensively ur doing it wrong b:laugh

man which kind of DD does a dead\hard cced DD class? xD

and +1 Aeliah

this new proc is completely game mechanics breaking,
the new hardest CC in game cant be given to the class with the highest survivability

if you get into that kind of mass pvp situation, you have 18 secs for 3spark IG AD to afford to kill the barb to prevent future uncounterable CCs\locks

but ain no endgame barb that gets killed in 18 seconds $:\$

New "stun" skill effect

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