New "stun" skill effect

Mooooooooo - Lost City

in all seriousness purify is only op when fighting with a number of undergeared opponents. the proc is average of 1 every 8 hits. an opponent in similar gears can easily kill arcanes in ~8 hits or less. Also purify is a defensive proc. If it goes off, all that happens is you don't end up killing the person. Purify procing does not mean that they get to kill you most of the times, just that they are able to get away temporarily and get some distance from melees. Any serious pvper that has 1v1 experience should know that purify is not reliable. It is annoying on the occasions that it procs right after a stun, but still that happens only 12-24% of the times.

I actually don't have as much of a problem with barb's stun since it's not 100% and doesn't last as long. The bm stun however is way op, which good bms on LC already realize. 7.5s of guarenteed stun with 15 second cd is just lol waffles. that amount of time allows them and other people with them to set up insane combos that can only be blocked once by genie which has a much longer cooldown than 15 seconds. The cost of 1 spark is tiny in comparison to how much value it provides. I'm sure even if the new skill cost 2 sparks, good bms would still be happy to get it.

Slewdem - Dreamweaver

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Lvl 105 BM doesn't know Blade Hurl counters purify? You're one of the only classes that already had a good counter.

also activates it also in 1v1s

Adroit - Lost City

Mooooooooo - Lost City wrote: »

in all seriousness purify is only op when fighting with a number of undergeared opponents. the proc is average of 1 every 8 hits. an opponent in similar gears can easily kill arcanes in ~8 hits or less. Also purify is a defensive proc. If it goes off, all that happens is you don't end up killing the person. Purify procing does not mean that they get to kill you most of the times, just that they are able to get away temporarily and get some distance from melees. Any serious pvper that has 1v1 experience should know that purify is not reliable. It is annoying on the occasions that it procs right after a stun, but still that happens only 12-24% of the times.

I actually don't have as much of a problem with barb's stun since it's not 100% and doesn't last as long. The bm stun however is way op, which good bms on LC already realize. 7.5s of guarenteed stun with 15 second cd is just lol waffles. that amount of time allows them and other people with them to set up insane combos that can only be blocked once by genie which has a much longer cooldown than 15 seconds. The cost of 1 spark is tiny in comparison to how much value it provides. I'm sure even if the new skill cost 2 sparks, good bms would still be happy to get it.

^ this. I wouldn't have a problem with this new paralyze stuff if it only affected the weapon proc.. the issue I have is that there is no way to counter it at all.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

^ this. I wouldn't have a problem with this new paralyze stuff if it only affected the weapon proc.. the issue I have is that there is no way to counter it. (Once it is on you)

I have listed ways to '"counter" it. (Well they're more per-emptive counters)

They do have their drawbacks.

A barb's mighty swing has to be used while in stand up form where there defensive capabilities are a lot more glaring. (EDIT:) I am not saying this makes it easy to kill them, but it does make it... easier. (Their defense really does take a hit (albeit not a huge significant one but enough that it could potentially cause problems) physically which does indeed mean bms/barbs/sins/archersand especially seekers al have the potential to own that barb while in stand up form)

You could also keep your distance.

(While immoblized you all can still more than attack/try to find ways to lock down that barb even if it is with genie skills to get away from that barb) Sure it may be annoying trying to get away from that barb but it is doable imho. (EDIT:) Yes I am well aware that a barb's mighty swing will either paralyze, or immoblize, but the simple truth of that skill is that it wont always paralyze... and aye it is uber when it does.

As for bm's: Keep their chi away from them, or use another bm to blade hurl them/keep them stunned so they can't use it.

Yes those are harder to take advantage of in 1 on 1 but they do have their drawbacks, hell I agree they are nigh impossible to take advantage of in 1 on 1 fights. (Aside from significantly out-gearing the barb/bm/getting a little lucky.


EDIt:... I So have the feeling I am going to regret posting on this thread. TT

Adroit - Lost City

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I have listed ways to '"counter" it. (Well they're more per-emptive counters)

They do have their drawbacks.

A barb's mighty swing has to be used while in stand up form where there defensive capabilities are a lot more glaring.

You could also keep your distance. (while immoblized you all can still more than attack/try to find ways to lock down that barb even if it is with genie skills to get away from that barb) Sure it may be annoying trying to get away from that barb but it is doable imho.

As for bm's: Keep their chi away from them, or use another bm to blade hurl them/keep them stunned so they can't use it.

Yes those are harder to take advantage of in 1 on 1 but they do have their drawbacks, hell I agree they are nigh impossible to take advantage of in 1 on 1 fights. (Aside from significantly out-gearing the barb/bm/getting a little lucky.


EDIt:... I So have the feeling I am going to regret posting on this thread. TT

I really can't tell if you are this stupid or just an amazing troll.

XXHotXx - Morai

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I have listed ways to '"counter" it. (Well they're more per-emptive counters)

They do have their drawbacks.

A barb's mighty swing has to be used while in stand up form where there defensive capabilities are a lot more glaring. (EDIT:) I am not saying this makes it easy to kill them, but it does make it... easier. (Their defense really does take a hit (albeit not a huge significant one but enough that it could potentially cause problems) physically which does indeed mean bms/barbs/sins/archersand especially seekers al have the potential to own that barb while in stand up form)

You could also keep your distance.

(While immoblized you all can still more than attack/try to find ways to lock down that barb even if it is with genie skills to get away from that barb) Sure it may be annoying trying to get away from that barb but it is doable imho. (EDIT:) Yes I am well aware that a barb's mighty swing will either paralyze, or immoblize, but the simple truth of that skill is that it wont always paralyze... and aye it is uber when it does.

As for bm's: Keep their chi away from them, or use another bm to blade hurl them/keep them stunned so they can't use it.

Yes those are harder to take advantage of in 1 on 1 but they do have their drawbacks, hell I agree they are nigh impossible to take advantage of in 1 on 1 fights. (Aside from significantly out-gearing the barb/bm/getting a little lucky.


EDIt:... I So have the feeling I am going to regret posting on this thread. TT

how hard it is to argument against the fact new proc is unquestionably overpowered

in 1on1 purify isnt reliable\op like this new stun proc is not...

in mass pvp situation this skill wrecks game mechanics of most of the classes

Azura - Lost City

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I have listed ways to '"counter" it. (Well they're more per-emptive counters)

They do have their drawbacks.

A barb's mighty swing has to be used while in stand up form where there defensive capabilities are a lot more glaring. (EDIT:) I am not saying this makes it easy to kill them, but it does make it... easier. (Their defense really does take a hit (albeit not a huge significant one but enough that it could potentially cause problems) physically which does indeed mean bms/barbs/sins/archersand especially seekers al have the potential to own that barb while in stand up form)

You could also keep your distance.

(While immoblized you all can still more than attack/try to find ways to lock down that barb even if it is with genie skills to get away from that barb) Sure it may be annoying trying to get away from that barb but it is doable imho. (EDIT:) Yes I am well aware that a barb's mighty swing will either paralyze, or immoblize, but the simple truth of that skill is that it wont always paralyze... and aye it is uber when it does.

As for bm's: Keep their chi away from them, or use another bm to blade hurl them/keep them stunned so they can't use it.

Yes those are harder to take advantage of in 1 on 1 but they do have their drawbacks, hell I agree they are nigh impossible to take advantage of in 1 on 1 fights. (Aside from significantly out-gearing the barb/bm/getting a little lucky.


EDIt:... I So have the feeling I am going to regret posting on this thread. TT

You always have to come up with your stupid comments, don't you?

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

how hard it is to argument against the fact new proc is unquestionably overpowered

in 1on1 purify isnt reliable\op like this new stun proc is not...

in mass pvp situation this skill wrecks game mechanics of most of the classes

I never said it wasn't 'oped'... but I for one question just how oped it is... I do not feel it is overpowered as people make it out to be.

As for 1 on 1 fights I do agree with you, 100% in fact... (personally I feel it is the exact opposite when talking about mass pvp.) Obviously not everyone agrees with that feeling, but meh that is my opinion, and I will stick with it.

(They aren't aoe, and they do NOT have the range that sog has... sure sog/most ranged effects have ways to be countered once on.)

Sure those facts aren't as 'concrete' as others but it is a fact that I feel absolutely needs to be taking into consideration, (and neither is what is fixing to follow but they too should be taking into consideration... albeit not as much) not to mention the fact that not ALL bms/barbs are 100% capable of even getting near most endgame casters on an consistent basis. (EDIT: not all barbs/bms are smart enough to use apo/shields to close the gaps, not to mention the cooldowns on apo (for bms) but the the shields of a barb... are indeed badass/ridiculously hard to deal with... still the simple fact is that not all barbs are smart enough to use them.) (sure the one's that can/are capable of are obviously going to be real annoying to deal with, but that still doesn't change the fact that a bms paralyze skill actually has a cooldown/costs a spark/the bm has to be near enough to use it/not get canceled.... obviously the drawbacks aren't that glaring, and it IS wrong that there isn't a way to remove it once it's on (genie skill), but still there are ways to prevent it from becoming an issue in the first place, even if they aren't always reliable. something so tells me that people will ignore that part even though I bolded every bit of it.

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

I really can't tell if you are this stupid or just an amazing troll.

Meh ever since I seen this post, I have been trying to figure out the best way to reply to you.

I love your insults keep them coming plox?

---

Ok so that so wasn't what I had in mind, but meh

Vedovis - Lost City

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

I really can't tell if you are this stupid or just an amazing troll.

really couldn't have said it better myself.. most of his comments are truly facepalm worthy

Euthymius - Heavens Tear

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

EDIt:... I So have the feeling I am going to regret posting on this thread. TT

Indeed.

All of this Damage Control from BMs/Barbs getting an inherently broken effect on their existing skills is amusing though. b:laugh

Jabra_ - Dreamweaver

well too bad, it will never change b:laugh
Adapt people, stop the QQing ^.^

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

Vedovis - Lost City wrote: »

really couldn't have said it better myself.. most of his comments are truly facepalm worthy

Well excuse me caster gods who obviously know it all.

Excuse me for bringing up a different opinion/some points that while they may not be the best 'triumph' card that allows you to continue to be gods with purify proc... they are still points that essentially effect (albeit not as strong as others skills/proc weaknesses) the usefulness of the paralyze/immobilization.

Again I repeat I know the things I brought up aren't the best card's to 'play'/use but they do whether you all like to admit it or not... there is a grain of truth to them, even if they aren't the triumph card you all are looking for... they still will play a role at one time or another.

<.<

Seriously gotta love it when people seem to think they're always in the right/their holier than thou attitudes. (yes I edited out caster, it was wrong for me to make such a generalized statement.) My apologies.

--

Yes I realize there are a few people who aren't casters who do not agree with my points that I brought up.

--

Also again despite what I have brought up, I am not trying to claim that the stuns aren't overpowered... but I am questioning just how 'overpowered' they are... to me there seems like there are some drawbacks to them even if they aren't so glaringly obvious.... especially when endgame most of what I said does indeed go out the window.

Narcillatrix - Dreamweaver

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Seriously gotta love how casters seem to think they're always in the right/their holier than thou attitudes.

Well excuse ME. I remember once upon a time when melees dominated the game and had the same snooty attitude of being better than everyone, especially towards casters...

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

Narcillatrix - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Well excuse ME. I remember once upon a time when melees dominated the game and had the same snooty attitude of being better than everyone, especially towards casters...

Aye you are right everyone (be it melee or caster) is capable of that attitude... and it so isn't fun being on the wrong end of it.

Narcillatrix - Dreamweaver

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Aye you are right everyone (be it melee or caster) is capable of that attitude... and it so isn't fun being on the wrong end of it.

Yes thank you, I agree very much. Not fun at all and it's frustrating seeing either treat the other so unfairly. :<

But back to topic, I personally have not had too much a problem with the new stun skill towards me, so I guess my saying 'it doesn't bother me hardly at all' isn't very helpful to debate. Though I do see and understand were everyone is coming from in saying that it is rather OP.

Though I'm not particularly bothered by it (yet), I guess maybe increasing the cool down a tiny bit would help, but again I still haven't been exposed to it nearly as much as of yet.

maestro121

Euthymius - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Indeed.

All of this Damage Control from BMs/Barbs getting an inherently broken effect on their existing skills is amusing though. b:laugh

No more hilarious than when the purify proc first came out and every caster and their dog was on full offense attempting to justify that broken weap proc. Now suddenly the shoe is on the other foot and suddenly everybody gets amnesia. b:chuckle

Crazybladema - Harshlands

maestro121 wrote: »

No more hilarious than when the purify proc first came out and every caster and their dog was on full offense attempting to justify that broken weap proc. Now suddenly the shoe is on the other foot and suddenly everybody gets amnesia. b:chuckle

This really whether makes me wonder. Does pwi periodically make different classes broken. So that the heavy cash noobs keep switching to play on the most op toons of their time on the best gears. (which of course they cash-shop)

Thus increasing cash flow o_o

Euthymius - Heavens Tear

maestro121 wrote: »

No more hilarious than when the purify proc first came out and every caster and their dog was on full offense attempting to justify that broken weap proc. Now suddenly the shoe is on the other foot and suddenly everybody gets amnesia. b:chuckle

>Every caster

Nice generalization, but there were those (myself included) who also agreed back then that Purify Spell didn't need to be as powerful as it is .

However, most of the complaints of Purify Spell were mostly NW related (flag carriers getting "easy Holy Paths" from undergeared players herp-derping on an OP user of said ability) than regular 1v1s or high-end Mass PvP. Even then, there are ways to counter it, unlike this, where your only option is to not get hit or expend apoth/genie skills with far longer cooldowns than the effect in question.

This Paralyze doesn't just affect Purify Spell users, but everyone else, too...

Slewdem - Dreamweaver

Euthymius - Heavens Tear wrote: »

>Every caster

Nice generalization, but there were those (myself included) who also agreed back then that Purify Spell didn't need to be as powerful as it is .

However, most of the complaints of Purify Spell were mostly NW related (flag carriers getting "easy Holy Paths" from undergeared players herp-derping on an OP user of said ability) than regular 1v1s or high-end Mass PvP. Even then, there are ways to counter it, unlike this, where your only option is to not get hit or expend apoth/genie skills with far longer cooldowns than the effect in question.

This Paralyze doesn't just affect Purify Spell users, but everyone else, too...

so basically purify mostly fear this skill due to the fact they can't really rely on purify proc to run flag. Or mostly afraid of it 1v1 wise??

NyKage - Lost City

Dont all melees already have to rely on genies to live i dont get why now having 1 skill that makes u guys normal is so hard to deal with

Adroit - Lost City

NyKage - Lost City wrote: »

Dont all melees already have to rely on genies to live i dont get why now having 1 skill that makes u guys normal is so hard to deal with

Casters already needed to rely on genie to live.. but none of the reasonable cost genie skills (below 125 energy) are effective against the new paralyze. Since my genie doesn't have the 350+ magic necessary to use these high energy skills every 15 seconds.. it's a tad hard to deal with.

freygin

Is there a new paralyze too ? as if this stun isn't enough ><' the paralyze also can go through anti stun ?

Vedovis - Lost City

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Well excuse me caster gods who obviously know it all.

Excuse me for bringing up a different opinion/some points that while they may not be the best 'triumph' card that allows you to continue to be gods with purify proc... they are still points that essentially effect (albeit not as strong as others skills/proc weaknesses) the usefulness of the paralyze/immobilization.

Again I repeat I know the things I brought up aren't the best card's to 'play'/use but they do whether you all like to admit it or not... there is a grain of truth to them, even if they aren't the triumph card you all are looking for... they still will play a role at one time or another.

-snip-

One of your tactics to avoid that paralyse was to "keep your distance". like really. reaaaaaally. That's like saying "one of the ways to avoid getting HF'd is to keep your distance." It's common sense. >_> Every post you seem to be talking about how underpowered BMs are which to most people is a complete joke. Sorry.

Euthymius - Heavens Tear

Slewdem - Dreamweaver wrote: »

so basically purify mostly fear this skill due to the fact they can't really rely on purify proc to run flag. Or mostly afraid of it 1v1 wise??

Euthymius - Heavens Tear wrote: »

...unlike this, where your only option is to not get hit or expend apoth/genie skills with far longer cooldowns than the effect in question.

This Paralyze doesn't just affect Purify Spell users, but everyone else, too...

b:sweat
The only exception are Assassins because of Tidal Protection

Quilue - Sanctuary

The difference between the Barb skill and the BM skill is that although the BM skill is a lot longer in duration, it costs a spark and has 15s cd. You can spend resources to mitigate it. For example, I can use a spark to block it and the fight is still even in chi.

Trying to block Mighty Swing is like trying to block Pyrogram. It's only going to come back 6s later and now you're down a spark. There's no way you can fight this on the ground.

Auerlius - Archosaur

Crazybladema - Harshlands wrote: »

This really whether makes me wonder. Does pwi periodically make different classes broken. So that the heavy cash noobs keep switching to play on the most op toons of their time on the best gears. (which of course they cash-shop)

Thus increasing cash flow o_o

OF COURSE NOT....WHO WOULD DO A THING LIKE THAT?

b:thanks suckers.....

Loshon - Archosaur

I really don't get why this is even a discussion... aps didn't break the game, r9 didn't break it, purify add didn't break the game, but ya'll think this new skill of bms and barbs is going break the game so badly that the servers will crash and heaven's tear will fall from the sky and the wraiths will finally conquer archosaur?

I doubt that lol in a month's time nobody will be talking about it. One would think ya'll would be used to this by now lol

Okay, I have to admit, heavens tear crashing to the ground WOULD be pretty cool to witness... and I never liked duke blacke to begin with.

LONG LIVE THE WRAITHS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

petrave

Loshon - Archosaur wrote: »

I really don't get why this is even a discussion... aps didn't break the game, r9 didn't break it, purify add didn't break the game, but ya'll think this new skill of bms and barbs is going break the game so badly that the servers will crash and heaven's tear will fall from the sky and the wraiths will finally conquer archosaur?

I doubt that lol in a month's time nobody will be talking about it. One would think ya'll would be used to this by now lol

Okay, I have to admit, heavens tear crashing to the ground WOULD be pretty cool to witness... and I never liked duke blacke to begin with.

LONG LIVE THE WRAITHS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lol i hope it wil brake the game and pwi wil die because compared to a couple of years ago pwi feels like a bad game now a real bad game

Asterelle - Sanctuary

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

The difference between the Barb skill and the BM skill is that although the BM skill is a lot longer in duration, it costs a spark and has 15s cd. You can spend resources to mitigate it. For example, I can use a spark to block it and the fight is still even in chi.

How exactly do you spend a spark to block dragon rising? The channeling on Wings of Grace is more than twice as long as the channeling on Dragon Rising and the anti stun it gives you doesn't work.

Again it's really stupid how this is framed as an arms race between casters and melee when there are classes that don't have neither purify, nor unblockable stuns. Archers spend full sparks for their anti stun and it is being rendered useless. Meanwhile with the unpurgeable defense passive people are hitting 20k+ pdef after purge.

Mania - Lost City

I have not really read every post but I wanted to leave some input as a fellow magic class with puri.


My personal opinions is that firstly, PWI is an MMO - It's sort of expected we should be playing as a group, together, making social connections online, friends, enemys, it's pretty much a second life.

With the intent of this being a game to play with others (sometimes you get ganked, sometimes you get 1v1s) - with the mass PK when puri is vital, I find that the new stun is actually a really good thing, it doesn't allow us a get out of jail free card but it does allow us to rely on our fellow team mates more, and work as a team on an MMO - I have to depend on my fellow pk buddies to stop whoever is spam paralyzing me, (as a team) - It makes the game more exciting, it makes me rely on my friends more instead of what was once an overpowered proc. Sometimes it works in our favor, sometimes it doesn't - It wasn't exactly fair to the melee classes doing all this work to kill someone then POOF puri- It kinda sucks for us, it was a really nice life saver, and it STILL is a very powerful and useful proc, but it's fair that the close-range melee classes get something like this, life was really too difficult for them with the puri, we could just run away, and it's not really skill, that was luck of the proc - We still have our proc, it's just going to work a little less- if anything this skill has balanced the PVP field a little if anything.

Let the melee class keep their skill, we had our fun with our Houdini skills, now give them a fair chance, and remind your teammates to get those poopers off you when needed! - Team work all around

b:victory