New "stun" skill effect

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  • SpasticCat - Sanctuary
    SpasticCat - Sanctuary Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I do not think this thread is relevant anymore.
  • eraldus
    eraldus Posts: 336 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    SpasticCat - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I do not think this thread is relevant anymore.

    Watch as this turns out to be the next "beating a dead horse" discussion in a few months. b:pleased
  • ablabahabla
    ablabahabla Posts: 67 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    eraldus wrote: »
    1) It's not even 100% confirmed that the BM skill can cause the same paralize effect. People are just assumpting it via a skill description which can be wrong.

    2) Kite FTW?

    3) Never travel alone on mass PVP. Unless you wanna get facerolled.

    if u read it again u might see i wasnt talking about the bm skill, its been about the barbs one.
    IF a barb has some assistance by any bm they can lock u down for ages without u being able to break out of that stun lock at all unless u use faith or domain and after 5sec u will be stunlocked again.
    The barb just needs a high str genie with decent mag to keep up occult ice stun as addition and u will go mad cause u cant escape from it without domain or faith either since fortify doesnt block occult ice.

    I never said the bm skill would be op since it has a long cd and takes a full spark to cast. But the Barb one is just ridicoulus if the barb aint to dumb to make use of it
  • _blood_rain - Sanctuary
    _blood_rain - Sanctuary Posts: 2,532 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Man - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Because you cannot kite barbs >.>

    Barbs are one of the most difficult classes to kite, if not THE most difficult due to the fact that they are pretty tanky and any equal geared fight w/ a competent barb is going to be really drawn out or inconclusive...probably.

    On top of being impossible to airkite, you have the fastest constant moving speed in game in tiger form.
    other classes will very quickly run out of options when it comes to keeping u away. Not to mention, you pretty much get the best of both worlds. Great burst damage, ability to zerk-crit kill almost anything by accident, wicked defensive abilities, a purge skill, and now a near spammable and nearly irresistible stun.
    If you still think your class was weak before this update, you should check videos of a barb wearing mostly oht gear and calamities killing R9 people for the lols. Barb was easily one of the most OP classes before this skill update.
  • eraldus
    eraldus Posts: 336 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    ablabahabla wrote: »
    if u read it again u might see i wasnt talking about the bm skill, its been about the barbs one.
    IF a barb has some assistance by any bm they can lock u down for ages without u being able to break out of that stun lock at all unless u use faith or domain and after 5sec u will be stunlocked again.
    The barb just needs a high str genie with decent mag to keep up occult ice stun as addition and u will go mad cause u cant escape from it without domain or faith either since fortify doesnt block occult ice.

    I never said the bm skill would be op since it has a long cd and takes a full spark to cast. But the Barb one is just ridicoulus if the barb aint to dumb to make use of it

    I know you never mentioned the BM skill, I was just pointing it out. Again, you can kite it, if you'resmart enough to not allow yourself to get caught by a stun (if you're a ranged DDer). You talked about assistance. Well, then bring some assistance for yourself too! How about *gasp* another barb to help you?

    The skill is fine... you guys are just picturing a "perfect scenario" on your heads where the barb will stunlock you to death and you can't do anythnig about it. Just get some strategies and it'll be alright. I highly doubt they'll change this skill, so you better learn to adapt to it.
  • DionDagger - Dreamweaver
    DionDagger - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,140 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    eraldus wrote: »
    I know you never mentioned the BM skill, I was just pointing it out. Again, you can kite it, if you'resmart enough to not allow yourself to get caught by a stun (if you're a ranged DDer). You talked about assistance. Well, then bring some assistance for yourself too! How about *gasp* another barb to help you?

    The skill is fine... you guys are just picturing a "perfect scenario" on your heads where the barb will stunlock you to death and you can't do anythnig about it. Just get some strategies and it'll be alright. I highly doubt they'll change this skill, so you better learn to adapt to it.

    In that scenario where you can get another barb to help, that barb chasing you can equally have a sin there. Shadow Jump range is 30m (demon is 35m), a few sec of CC can get the barb back on your as.s. ijs.
  • ablabahabla
    ablabahabla Posts: 67 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    eraldus wrote: »
    I know you never mentioned the BM skill, I was just pointing it out. Again, you can kite it, if you'resmart enough to not allow yourself to get caught by a stun (if you're a ranged DDer). You talked about assistance. Well, then bring some assistance for yourself too! How about *gasp* another barb to help you?

    The skill is fine... you guys are just picturing a "perfect scenario" on your heads where the barb will stunlock you to death and you can't do anythnig about it. Just get some strategies and it'll be alright. I highly doubt they'll change this skill, so you better learn to adapt to it.

    unless they deal super low dmg i dont think you will get your backup there in time. And answering a 2v1 with a gank isnt what real pvpers aim for.

    +1 to DionDagger for mentioning they can call more too or just have a sin tele stun or trackling slash your barb friend.
  • eraldus
    eraldus Posts: 336 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    In that scenario where you can get another barb to help, that barb chasing you can equally have a sin there. Shadow Jump range is 30m (demon is 35m), a few sec of CC can get the barb back on your as.s. ijs.

    That was just an example... every PVP scenario is a different one, so anything can happen on PVP and you can't really tell the outcome. It's a momment thing.
    ablabahabla wrote: »
    unless they deal super low dmg i dont think you will get your backup there in time. And answering a 2v1 with a gank isnt what real pvpers aim for.

    +1 to DionDagger for mentioning they can call more too or just have a sin tele stun or trackling slash your barb friend.

    And lol @And answering a 2v1 with a gank isnt what real pvpers aim for. Mass PVP = war, and like war, there isn't any kind of rule as to how to proceed on the battlefield, as the goal is to win, and strategy is the key (if you can't take on someone stronger than you, then you bring backup). There is no such thing as "hey, it's not fair to 2v1" in there, but if you're gonna insist on such standards, then it's up to you, but don't complain if you get ganked or call it unffair...

    Also, this thread has already gone too far really... this discussion is pointless and won't take us anywhere... The skill is here, the effect will remain, and they won't change it, so you better get over it.
  • Daruvial - Sanctuary
    Daruvial - Sanctuary Posts: 277 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    only read like a third of this thread but man I didn't realize how stupid some people are till I read this .-.
  • Dartwave - Sanctuary
    Dartwave - Sanctuary Posts: 114 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Finally another different status to alternate after stun for a bm :o
    Since PURIFY broke the game it's been really hard for bms to kill certain arcanes : the ones that knows how to play are kinda impossible to kill if they use correctly fortify , adding some dex to it to make it last through a hypotetic seal in between 2 different stuns... it's really annoying when u build ur chi and 2or 3 sparks get wasted on a stupid lucky purify by weapon. Pretty funny when purify proc directly on HF or glacial spike. This game is too much luck-based , even someone that never uses fortify or badge or anything else could last 20 mins + if he gets lucky on purify proc... such situation is depressing for a melee :S
    So i consider this new status as a counterbalance for melee classes... i realize this is pretty much OP but not more OP than purify . I preferred the scenario before that purify came to the game tbh.
  • XXHotXx - Morai
    XXHotXx - Morai Posts: 1,246 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Dartwave - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Finally another different status to alternate after stun for a bm :o
    Since PURIFY broke the game it's been really hard for bms to kill certain arcanes : the ones that knows how to play are kinda impossible to kill if they use correctly fortify , adding some dex to it to make it last through a hypotetic seal in between 2 different stuns... it's really annoying when u build ur chi and 2or 3 sparks get wasted on a stupid lucky purify by weapon. Pretty funny when purify proc directly on HF or glacial spike. This game is too much luck-based , even someone that never uses fortify or badge or anything else could last 20 mins + if he gets lucky on purify proc... such situation is depressing for a melee :S
    So i consider this new status as a counterbalance for melee classes... i realize this is pretty much OP but not more OP than purify . I preferred the scenario before that purify came to the game tbh.

    no, you have gof and this new stun is broken

    you mad about purify? k let arcanes have gof on weapon and see
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  • Veneir - Dreamweaver
    Veneir - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,541 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I'm gonna skip reading all the pages and just comment that what this skill does reminds me of what Zan created a troll-thread in regards to '____ bm skill should go through all stun resistances like it says in description' or whatever that was.
    Every single person on-thread disagreed with him... guess it happened anyway x3 *not 'cause of him obviousily but it's kind of funny.*
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  • Jaabg - Sanctuary
    Jaabg - Sanctuary Posts: 2,256 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »
    no, you have gof and this new stun is broken

    you mad about purify? k let arcanes have gof on weapon and see

    Arcane classes already have a GOF. Unlike melee GOF that is a percentage chance of happening, arcane gof procs on each hit, be it auto attack or skill based. You will see this when people are rebirthed twice at 105, have endgame gear as dartwave pointed out, refined to +12 ish, have S card sets. Those arcanes have built in gof b:laugh b:cry.
  • Saethos - Raging Tide
    Saethos - Raging Tide Posts: 1,239 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »
    no, you have gof and this new stun is broken

    you mad about purify? k let arcanes have gof on weapon and see

    I don't know how many people I have to explain this to, but GoF is only as good as your crit rate. If you have an insufficient crit rate, you will just spend 75% of the time running around chasing after everyone, 24.5% of the time praying for a crit zerk before purify spell, and .5% of the time crit zerking...

    I don't think people realize that range plays a big role here. As a BM, we spend the majority of our time running around. That's why melees have it. I agree seekers don't need it, I think they should have something that raises their attack instead of GoF, and sins? Well their specialty is 1v1 and with purify spell, that zerk is basically needed to efficiently kill in mass PvP, single target killing is their thing. Casters with zerk would be more OP than the already too OP purify spell due to AoE capabilities and range advantage (again, seekers, yes, but they have become more manageable lately)

    That and BM damage is already rather lousy compared to other classes. Our new skill Army Crusher deals base damage plus around 7k (for sage) and demon is a little weaker but has more range, while pretty much every other class is getting 300-900% weapon damage boosts with their skills, often even pre-upgrade. Our most powerful skill has a 2 minute cooldown, requires us to be missing HP, and deals 200% weapon damage plus 7k, so if we want to deal any damage that compares to every single other class at all, that zerk is pretty much needed.

    BM is the crowd control class, our damage lacks compared to other classes and we run around for so long, we have a swiss army knife of slows and stuns, yes, but I don't see how this is gamebreaking if we can use ONE stun through antistun without purification. How is it any different than pre-purify spell? You can still purify any debuff and just use, say for a dex genie, windshield and reduce damage, or AD and be immine thus breaking the stunlock.

    As it stands, venos have better 1v1 stunning abilities short term because f a range advantage and that they can overlap their kitten form going through antistun followed by their stun if you their stun then use nova, all with a purge and amp, locking for long enough to set up a combo with minimal skill.

    This isn't something that will break BM, this is something that will rebalance BM, who has been left behind in every update other than Morai. We finally get something to put us back in the game, and everyone thinks it will make us OP as god.

    It consumes one spark, so you can keep us chi burned before we close range, it has a 15 second cooldown on a 6 second paralyse, 7.5 for demon, which is fast yes, but that means if you -are- antistunned, you can use that 9 second gap to escape really easily.

    Other than Vacuity powders there is no difference than before purify spell. And in the case of 20 second vac, that means we can disable for 6 seconds in it, still a 14 second antistun, and we get our cooldown done while there are still 5 seconds, but if you run just right we won't be able to get the second one on because, as I said earlier, we spend 75% of our time running.
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  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    The elephant in the room is that there are still classes without purify. Who's going to come up with some BS justification for why certain classes don't have purify but still have to deal with the new stun?

    The whole purify BS was stupid. It was stupid to lump every robe into one category and decide they all need 1 proc. (It was equally stupid to lump every melee into one category and decide they all need GoF)
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  • Saethos - Raging Tide
    Saethos - Raging Tide Posts: 1,239 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »
    The elephant in the room is that there are still classes without purify. Who's going to come up with some BS justification for why certain classes don't have purify but still have to deal with the new stun?

    The whole purify BS was stupid. It was stupid to lump every robe into one category and decide they all need 1 proc. (It was equally stupid to lump every melee into one category and decide they all need GoF)

    ^ This is also a very good point. People with purify need to remember that there are others without it. Archers will be pretty pissed because now we can keep them disabled through their entire antistun provided we have 150 chi and everything is off cooldown. Smack, Blade Hurl, new stun. That's 15 seconds of disable through antistun under the right conditions.

    But it also consumes our chi, taking out quite a few of our good combos for it, too. I agree it's OP, but it's not so OP that the game will break.
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  • JackieK - Harshlands
    JackieK - Harshlands Posts: 255 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    New HeadHunt f:grin
  • PooEA - Lost City
    PooEA - Lost City Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Some people ought to have reached mirage sky VI by now, any player able to confirm that the bm drake bash stuns as previously speculated?
  • Eoria - Harshlands
    Eoria - Harshlands Posts: 6,118 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    PooEA - Lost City wrote: »
    Some people ought to have reached mirage sky VI by now, any player able to confirm that the bm drake bash stuns as previously speculated?

    According to the thread about it in the BM section, it does indeed work as speculated.
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  • Deflectra - Sanctuary
    Deflectra - Sanctuary Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »
    The elephant in the room is that there are still classes without purify. Who's going to come up with some BS justification for why certain classes don't have purify but still have to deal with the new stun?

    The whole purify BS was stupid. It was stupid to lump every robe into one category and decide they all need 1 proc. (It was equally stupid to lump every melee into one category and decide they all need GoF)

    I will glady trade you my Purify proc for your Purge proc....I can count the times Purify has saved me...not very many.
  • Auerlius - Archosaur
    Auerlius - Archosaur Posts: 226 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Deflectra - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I will glady trade you my Purify proc for your Purge proc....I can count the times Purify has saved me...not very many.

    lol amazing on my thread you spout there is balance but yet here you admit the barb skill is broken? oh i get it..this is your friend's post. np.

    but this is what you guys keep paying for..ill thought out ideas that flooded onto a messed up game design without fully testing the implications of said skill or skill set. stun->autocrit skill->armageddon= KO for most classes. and it's automatic now cause mighty swing is unavoidable. Why do people still play this game...lol better question; why am i?
  • Sjuggs - Lost City
    Sjuggs - Lost City Posts: 617 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    LOL are people really complaining now about BMs? now that they can finally shine a bit after being one of the most underpowered classes(at least the hardest to play and master)...
    This is beyond ridiculous ... b:sweat
  • Auerlius - Archosaur
    Auerlius - Archosaur Posts: 226 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    _blood_rain - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Barbs are one of the most difficult classes to kite, if not THE most difficult due to the fact that they are pretty tanky and any equal geared fight w/ a competent barb is going to be really drawn out or inconclusive...probably.

    On top of being impossible to airkite, you have the fastest constant moving speed in game in tiger form.
    other classes will very quickly run out of options when it comes to keeping u away. Not to mention, you pretty much get the best of both worlds. Great burst damage, ability to zerk-crit kill almost anything by accident, wicked defensive abilities, a purge skill, and now a near spammable and nearly irresistible stun.
    If you still think your class was weak before this update, you should check videos of a barb wearing mostly oht gear and calamities killing R9 people for the lols. Barb was easily one of the most OP classes before this skill update.

    +1 finally someone with common sense. with changes like these in the game 1v1 with a cleric is pointless. everyone should just make barbs sins archers and seekers
  • Narcillatrix - Dreamweaver
    Narcillatrix - Dreamweaver Posts: 461 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Auerlius - Archosaur wrote: »
    lol amazing on my thread you spout there is balance but yet here you admit the barb skill is broken? oh i get it..this is your friend's post. np.

    I'm sorry but I fail to see where she states that the barb skill is broken in that post...Unless it's some subliminal message hidden that I can't see or buried back in earlier pages in which should be what you quoted rather than her stating she would trade puri proc for purge which is no where remotely related to te barb skill....

    As for the new stun, honestly I don't really care. Sure it's annoying, but really every class has something everyone else wants to complain about every other day about how unfair and stupid it is. There's always something.
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  • Auerlius - Archosaur
    Auerlius - Archosaur Posts: 226 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »
    Though admittedly, I do think this one about the barb skill is justified.

    Listen, I'm not one to care about losing 1v1 due to a class being better designed for it. Cleric and sin in particular are built in ways that can make them damned near impossible to beat 1v1 for certain classes, but there's no reason to cry about it because both then suffer from difficulties with group scenarios.

    This barb skill however seems iffy as far as balance goes not neccesarily because it's overpowered, but because it just seems like poor gameplay design that they've effectively given -THE- tankiest class the ability to completely 100% disable a good DD and there's not **** all you can do about it except wait until your allies bother to help you. It's THAT spammable and it's THAT bad. So even if you don't mind losing to a barb 1v1 simply because of such a skill (I mean they can use this and Arma until you finally die to a zerk crit), I'm sure EVERYONE minds not being able to take part in a big team fight because a barb has been specifically assigned to "ban" you from taking part in the fight.



    I myself have already experienced two fights where it was so obvious the barb was specifically assigned to come keep me disabled, and while it's perfectly fine for people to make that decision strategically, it's NOT fun gameplay when I literally -CANNOT- do anything about it. I'm even one of the lucky ones; a Psy can SoR it and then holy path away while the barb is on the ground, but I'm basically not allowed to target anything or anyone until that barb is dead, lest I be killed myself. One vit barb spamming this skill on a key DD = a giant ****ing obstacle for the entire team that affords the enemy ample time to focus-fire a bunch of people that are pre-occupied with a slow-to-die target.




    As a minor suggestion that would make it far more....don't wanna say balanced but rather "fun" since being disabled by this is boring as hell: simply increase it's cooldown. As it stands, the problem is the cooldown is so brief that the barb can -literally- spam it and you receive only very brief ~2-3 second windows to actually do something, which for many people, isn't enough. (keep in mind the skill has some range) If this skill either required decent chi or had a higher cooldown, it could STILL function as an effective disable that makes barbs a larger threat, but it at least gives the targets an opportunity to....yknow, play the ****ing game. :U

    +1,000,000

    i dunno how a game can be fun when you have no chance to do anything and johny with his one trick pony negates all the skill you have worked hard to acquire with one combo that cannot be beaten.
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Deflectra - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I will glady trade you my Purify proc for your Purge proc....I can count the times Purify has saved me...not very many.

    That's a pretty trashy assessment there, I am sure all casters agree with you that Purify actually kind of sucks.
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  • Asterelle - Sanctuary
    Asterelle - Sanctuary Posts: 930 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »
    That's a pretty trashy assessment there, I am sure all casters agree with you that Purify actually kind of sucks.

    I'd still make that switch since I could always switch to a G15 bow to purge when needed. That's what BM / barb / sin do for their purges.
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  • FistToDeath - Dreamweaver
    FistToDeath - Dreamweaver Posts: 482 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »
    That's a pretty trashy assessment there, I am sure all casters agree with you that Purify actually kind of sucks.

    Pure love for purify here. b:heart

    I don't think I'd trade purify for purge for the simple fact that clerics don't hit fast enough to take as much advantage of it as archers (including our long-ish cooldowns).

    However, I'd trade my purify for God of War at anytime. b:laugh
  • Deceptistar - Sanctuary
    Deceptistar - Sanctuary Posts: 10,454 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    so.... are pple really getting spam stunned by barb skill? :S

    cause i havnt yet stumbled upon a barb thats done this to me twice in a row.

    did i miss something
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  • Asterelle - Sanctuary
    Asterelle - Sanctuary Posts: 930 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »
    so.... are pple really getting spam stunned by barb skill? :S

    cause i havnt yet stumbled upon a barb thats done this to me twice in a row.

    did i miss something

    This is what it looks like..
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSzMHDu5wjQ#t=418s

    That barb looks like he has around 35k hp and the archer has 29k. It's pretty stupid how much that skill is spammed.
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