Disable hypers in frost, yes, no or LV restricted? FORGOTTEN THREAD

Brillance - Raging Tide · September 2013

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

b:surrender

I agree with this 100%. I really see the FC problem as one of the bigger nails in the coffin for this portion of the game. Leveling did need to be sped up and things like PV, BH, Revamped Quests etc were the right way to go about it imo.

I'm also starting to feel this way about discussing FC.

I feel like this is of vial importance of this game to solve, as it actively discourages older players from meeting the newer players. And then things like this happens: http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1626511 <---Only a lot of them do not ever come back. You simply cannot run a business that doesn't attract new customers and if they don't fix their new player problem this game really will be dead.

This a forum with international players, you're accent doesn't come through the written word. And in the written word, a double negative is a positive and will be interpreted as such by people who have no way of knowing your accent/culture. And that is all I shall say on this subject as I don't want to derail the thread with grammar ****'isms.

Where is it written that every change you ever wanted made needs to be done? This is an international game involving different people, from different cultures.

Could it be that some of the changes you wanted see, were implemented, and produced an effect opposite of what it was expected to produce?

Could it be that some of the suggestions, although good from the non- or former-users perspective, are not the best thing, or are being looked at cautiously?

Isnt caution in making changes a good thing?

I remember when the change to TW bidding was implemented. You could tell the GM didnt believe his own words when he said it was being done to encourage small factions to participate in TW more.

I dont get disappointed so easy. I dont expect anything I want to be done. b:chuckle

In fact, at this point, I dont expect anything but what I like to do to get nerfed somehow.

ovenusarmanio · September 2013

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

Where is it written that every change you ever wanted made needs to be done? This is an international game involving different people, from different cultures.

Could it be that some of the changes you wanted see, were implemented, and produced an effect opposite of what it was expected to produce?

Could it be that some of the suggestions, although good from the non- or former-users perspective, are not the best thing, or are being looked at cautiously?

Isnt caution in making changes a good thing?

I remember when the change to TW bidding was implemented. You could tell the GM didnt believe his own words when he said it was being done to encourage small factions to participate in TW more.

I dont get disappointed so easy. I dont expect anything I want to be done. b:chuckle

It's simply business 101, constantly making things that turn away new customers is bad for business. You of OFC want customer loyalty and should treat frequent customers well, but you shouldn't do it to the point it actively discourages new players. I mean the thread that I linked is of such a person that was run away by the sheer loneliness of below 100 gaming. And people who would be willing to post on the forums, let alone come back, are going to be the small minority after such an experience. And we know for a fact it would get more people doing the next best lowbie content because it already happened for a week, and that is exactly what people did. Some would probably quit and who knows if it they would lose more than they would gain. But you gotta draw in new customers if you want a game to survive, everyone knows that. Another thing they need to do to fix the problem is advertise more, I haven't seen an ad for PWI in a long time.

Brillance - Raging Tide · September 2013

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

But you gotta draw in new customers if you want a game to survive, everyone knows that. Another thing they need to do to fix the problem is advertise more, I haven't seen an ad for PWI in a long time.

Well, I dont see Hypers as a bad thing, and if you truely do, we can agree to disagree.

Heck, if there was a healthy amount of new people coming into the game, neither one of us might care about the topic at all. Who knows?

I totally agree advertizement is key - but it will only get them so far. I know Im going a bit off-topic here, but the gear imbalance IS the biggest problem. Its created a micro-chasm where two different classes of players co-exist. They both play, but neither really plays with each other. Some never even step outside of their core-group, ever.

Fix that, and all the other blocks might just naturally fall into place. b:thanks

Sounds like its possible, and coming. I hope it is. ^^

ovenusarmanio · September 2013

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

Well, I dont see Hypers as a bad thing, and if you truely do, we can agree to disagree.

Heck, if there was a healthy amount of new people coming into the game, neither one of us might care about the topic at all. Who knows?

I totally agree advertizement is key - but it will only get them so far. I know Im going a bit off-topic here, but the gear imbalance IS the biggest problem. Its created a micro-chasm where two different classes of players co-exist. They both play, but neither really plays with each other. Some never even step outside of their core-group, ever.

Fix that, and all the other blocks might just naturally fall into place. b:thanks

Sounds like its possible, and coming. I hope it is. ^^

Gear imbalance is something that affects mostly endgame players who specifically want to PVP. SO while it is important issue, for player retention, it doesn't effect the average new customers I'm talking about. Most of them quit long before that. Go to any faction recruiting all levels and look at the people who are in danger of being booted for being no longer active. Most of them are stopped at their late 20s through early 30s. The more willing to try it ones will most likely be in their 50s-60s when BH is harder than 29. And they have all this awesome squad content, and no squads to run it with. FC did to low level levelling content, what nation wars did to cannies/raps. It simply doesn't compete, everyone who could interact with these new players knows it and so doesn't bother with it, and you end up with new people leaving because the game is empty at those levels. Just like removing cnnies and raps would instantly solve the dead nirvana problem, putting some kind of level restriction FC would do the same thing. It doesn't have to be extremely high, 75+ is fine for example. It just has to be high enough so that people are doing it from level 1, and are thus meeting the new players. And even if they don't talk to them, the new plaeyrs can see that activity and will have more confidence in the game.

And I don't see hypers as a bad thing for when you're closing in on high levels either, and I definitely don't see it as a bad thing for the 100+ crowd. That part of the game is active and bustling compared to the beginning game. Which all a new player is going to see. They don't know the history, many probably didn't read up on the PVP gear imbalance, so these other issues we have problems with might as well not exist. Those problems rear their ugly heads only after youv'e been playing the game a little while.

Brillance - Raging Tide · September 2013

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

Gear imbalance is something that affects mostly endgame players who specifically want to PVP. SO while it is important issue, for player retention, it doesn't effect the average new customers I'm talking about. Most of them quit long before that. Go to any faction recruiting all levels and look at the people who are in danger of being booted for being no longer active. Most of them are stopped at their late 20s through early 30s. The more willing to try it ones will most likely be in their 50s-60s when BH is harder than 29. And they have all this awesome squad content, and no squads to run it with. FC did to low level levelling content, what nation wars did to cannies/raps. It simply doesn't compete, everyone who could interact with these new players knows it and so doesn't bother with it, and you end up with new people leaving because the game is empty at those levels. Just like removing cnnies and raps would instantly solve the dead nirvana problem, putting some kind of level restriction FC would do the same thing. It doesn't have to be extremely high, 75+ is fine for example. It just has to be high enough so that people are doing it from level 1, and are thus meeting the new players. And even if they don't talk to them, the new plaeyrs can see that activity and will have more confidence in the game.

And I don't see hypers as a bad thing for when you're closing in on high levels either, and I definitely don't see it as a bad thing for the 100+ crowd. That part of the game is active and bustling compared to the beginning game. Which all a new player is going to see. They don't know the history, many probably didn't read up on the PVP gear imbalance, so these other issues we have problems with might as well not exist. Those problems rear their ugly heads only after youv'e been playing the game a little while.

Well, I can tell you from my own experience, that of the new player being given 5 hypers at level 35 by a high level player, they dont do as much as 1 might think.

My level 5 cleric which I never play far out classed hypers with 5 fruit she got from the Lucid peeps, boosting her to more than twice her level.

I find it interesting how attitudes change up all the time. Back then, everyone wanted you to level up as fast as possible. Now it seems they want to keep you down as much as possible. I wonder why the difference in trains of thought.

I dont think it matters if you take the time to learn your class before or after leveling. I like the way I did it - as I went. The 'as you go' way might not be the best for everyone though. It might not be enough to hold their interest for long.

Fortunately, people can usually figure out what they like and want to do on their own.

ovenusarmanio · September 2013

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

Well, I can tell you from my own experience, that of the new player being given 5 hypers at level 35 by a high level player, they dont do as much as 1 might think.

My level 5 cleric which I never play far out classed hypers with 5 fruit she got from the Lucid peeps, boosting her to more than twice her level.

I find it interesting how attitudes change up all the time. Back then, everyone wanted you to level up as fast as possible. Now it seems they want to keep you down as much as possible. I wonder why the difference in trains of thought.

I dont think it matters if you take the time to learn your class before or after leveling. I like the way I did it - as I went. The 'as you go' way might not be the best for everyone though. It might not be enough to hold their interest for long.

Fortunately, people can usually figure out what they like and want to do on their own.

Hmm I don't think I'm explain what i mean by confidence well. Okay, if you were to go to a restaurant and there were no customers and the walls were dirty and the floor had water spilled on it, would you eat there? Or would you have very little confidence in the kitchen being any better, and leave for fear of getting food poisoning. For all you know, thye could have an immaculate kitchen and the walls are only dirty that one time because some jerk customer came in and messed things up just minutes ago. But, chances are you wouldn't stick around to find out.

If you were to invest in a stock, would you pick one that had a lot of buzz, seemed like everyone was going for it, etc? Or would you pick one that nobody had ever heard of, some small business that doesn't seem to be going to well according to the rumor mill?

Most people decide to invest time and money into things they are a least a bit confident that they will like and an empty game doesn't exactly inspire much confidence that level 100+ will be better. And the buzz in the forums doesn't exactly leave the most inspiring confidence that things will get any better end-game. This is actually the exact reason that developers spend a LOT of money on making sure the first 5 minutes of a video game draw you in the console markets as well. Which extra credits made a video about actually http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/starting-off-right

It's just human nature to judge things based on first appearances. And at first appearances, this game looks extremely beautiful and very dead.

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple · September 2013

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

The problem is not if people want or not, it's do the devs will want to do it just cause players say so.

We did win the .ini edit being allowed, but it's something that was already allowed in PWCN, if the FC is not a lvl restricted instance for them, I doubt we even get it for here. If I'm not wrong they cannot hyper in FC and we can, but then it's not what players wanted to change in our FC.

I would personally prefer lvl restricted, cause some lvl 100+ cannot solo PV, but can solo FC, so that give them a other option to lvl.

IIRC, on PW-CN, Hypers don't work in FC at all.

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

Well, I can tell you from my own experience, that of the new player being given 5 hypers at level 35 by a high level player, they dont do as much as 1 might think.

My level 5 cleric which I never play far out classed hypers with 5 fruit she got from the Lucid peeps, boosting her to more than twice her level.

I find it interesting how attitudes change up all the time. Back then, everyone wanted you to level up as fast as possible. Now it seems they want to keep you down as much as possible. I wonder why the difference in trains of thought.

I dont think it matters if you take the time to learn your class before or after leveling. I like the way I did it - as I went. The 'as you go' way might not be the best for everyone though. It might not be enough to hold their interest for long.

Fortunately, people can usually figure out what they like and want to do on their own.

Back in the day, we wanted to level quickly because the quests got excruciatingly boring in the 70's and it did not improve because of the lack of content. So it was acceptable to hyper and get to a higher level quickly. But all of us actually knew how to play the game at that point.

Now fast forward. Loads of new content. Lots more ways that you are able to level hour characters through the hard periods, and the massive power creep with gear. Now a large part of the populace levels faster than they learn their class, can get by on their won with uber gear, and don't bother to learn how to play as a part of a team. I don't care whether you learn to play your class at a low level or a high level. If you're going to be in a squad, working with others, then you damn well better know not only how to play your class, but how your role changes with the situations.

Back in the day, the player community was pretty damn awesome. Sure there were some morons and a-holes out there, but they were a large minority.

Now, most of the good community has left and we're over-run with the players that are worth about as much as a pile of dung. Why did the good players leave? Because they got tired of playing with idiots. Because they didn't feel like dropping the price of a compact car into pixels to be competitive. Because they recognized that all the company cares about is weeding as much cash out of the game as possible, and doesn't give a rats *** about the player-base.

The game changes, the environment changes, and our attitudes change with it. I don't see what is hard to understand about that. And to be perfectly honest, I never appreciated hypering before level 80, even when it meant a longer grind. But that's my opinion.

My opinion is also, that if this game is going to survive, and if it's going to attract new players that are going to stay around, the existing content needs more appreciation. It's not going to get that if it's being skipped completely. (And as it is right now, that's happening without hypers even being needed before level 60 or 70.)

Euthymius - Heavens Tear · September 2013

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

I find it interesting how attitudes change up all the time. Back then, everyone wanted you to level up as fast as possible. Now it seems they want to keep you down as much as possible. I wonder why the difference in trains of thought.

At least back then, when players did everything they could to level quickly - Zhen, questing, BH, WQ, PQ, CS, Orders of Justice, ect. they were out there playing the game, making use of its content, and not in FF buying rooms or waiting for a Power level service in Snowy Village.

Its not like its hard to level up to 75+ nowadays and then start hyper-leveling, so why invalidate the lower level BHs, and other XP routes?

Malei - Sanctuary · September 2013

Euthymius - Heavens Tear wrote: »

At least back then, when players did everything they could to level quickly - Zhen, questing, BH, WQ, PQ, CS, Orders of Justice, ect. they were out there playing the game, making use of its content, and not in FF buying rooms or waiting for a Power level service in Snowy Village.

Its not like its hard to level up to 75+ nowadays and then start hyper-leveling, so why invalidate the lower level BHs, and other XP routes?

Ah, I remember using Orders of Justice to get me through the 60s when my Quest Log was completely empty. So many Headless Knights. . .b:chuckle

None of these new kids know anything about that, teehee.

Brillance - Raging Tide · September 2013

Euthymius - Heavens Tear wrote: »

At least back then, when players did everything they could to level quickly - Zhen, questing, BH, WQ, PQ, CS, Orders of Justice, ect. they were out there playing the game, making use of its content, and not in FF buying rooms or waiting for a Power level service in Snowy Village.

Its not like its hard to level up to 75+ nowadays and then start hyper-leveling, so why invalidate the lower level BHs, and other XP routes?

I havent posted anything to the posts made before yours, because I really questioned nothing those players had to say, and thank them, as well as you, for posting your thoughts. Its nice to get a clearer view of the color of your glasses as well.

The only question is, what if that is not, for whatever reason, something they want to do?

Or, maybe even something they can do? I see people all the time asking for help, but Im not sure they actually get any. There have been countless times when I and others I know spammed WC for help, to no avail. In short, I would just like to interject that if there is nothing but a level 101 Sin to squad with, no one will be turning it down.b:chuckle

No one will be learning anything from it either.

Has it been decided that it is better to discourage those people entirely, than to allow them to continue playing and leveling, even if its not done in a way that seems ideal?

Its hard to do things right, before every thing has been made right. Any new player needs other new players to play with. Eliminating their options before those other new players arrive to play with, is just eliminating their game, imho.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear · September 2013

Euthymius - Heavens Tear wrote: »

At least back then, when players did everything they could to level quickly - Zhen, questing, BH, WQ, PQ, CS, Orders of Justice, ect. they were out there playing the game, making use of its content, and not in FF buying rooms or waiting for a Power level service in Snowy Village.

Ahhh... the good old days of playing the game... nothing like taking naps during zhen... cooking dinner during wq... taking a dump during pq... talk on the phone during cs... and my personal favor... some guy actually got his weekly grocery shopping done and went to the gym all the while he was "zhenning".

Slivaf - Dreamweaver · September 2013

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Ahhh... the good old days of playing the game... nothing like taking naps during zhen... cooking dinner during wq... taking a dump during pq... talk on the phone during cs... and my personal favor... some guy actually got his weekly grocery shopping done and went to the gym all the while he was "zhenning".

Rofl yea... I miss being able to afk during deltas IF I really needed to, rbs at the auras so allowed for a LITTLE time to afk if you weren't on a dd that could keep their move going the whole time. xD Hell I miss the place period even if it is still somewhat profitable if you know what to do to make it so... I still don't run it as often as I did.

I too miss when the game was simpler, I wasn't worried about annoying things like how I/my class does in a specific area of the game. (trying to be subtle here, not bringing up which one on purpose)

The game is definitely changing, and that is as it should be.

Vanflyheight - Heavens Tear · September 2013

Malei - Sanctuary wrote: »

Ah, I remember using Orders of Justice to get me through the 60s when my Quest Log was completely empty. So many Headless Knights. . .b:chuckle

None of these new kids know anything about that, teehee.

The new kids also dont know bout crusade orders, PQ, not to mention also the lower lvled rb runs that one could do.

rebirth alpha: 40-55
rebirth beta: 56-70
rebirth gamma: 71-85

These 3 rb runs have been totally abandoned and disregarded since the use of hypering in FC came around. Back when raging tide first came out, i remember when alot of players who got to lvl 60+ were able to do PQ area 1. Everyday you could find bout 2-3 squads full of players just wanting to run that area so many times to lvl. Now area 1 also known as blood lance stand has become a barren desert. With PQ, ya can lvl least 3-4 lvls a day if ya did it continuously.

So heres the point and im going to make it straight and stick. From my experience of when r9 was first added, it has made alot of players bullies to where you need the most top tier gear just to be accepted and needed the most. Sry to say that is a wrong reason and answer. Anyone who has guts, determination and skill to exceed beyond their own capabilities is going to be more accepted and needed than someone who made their way to the top by cheating and being handed things to em on a silver platter without earning it like rest of us did. Least back when the game was first created and it was a newly started game, the player base knew and learned how to play the game the way it was meant to be played. Not lvling fast to 100+ just by simply paying someone to give you an extreme lvling boost or by sitting on your butts in an exp room going afk while the rest of us were lvling far better than those who took the easy road. In this game now theres only 2 options that a player can choose, the easy way or the right way.

The easy way would be like a mountain climber taking his A/C comforting car by street to reach the top. The right way of a mountain climber is to rough it out by doing the hard work while making the reward more satisfying than the same person who got into his or her car and traveled up that same mountain. Plus to the rest of the players who have replied up to this far.

If you guys want to see pwi survive, then its up to you whether this game survives or not. If i was to vote on the hypers issue, i would vote to see em limited to at least 80. K heres the point, players who want hypers restricted to 75+ should just keep their peace. Anyone who is in the 70s can get to 80 just as fast without hypering as they would hypering, since anyone would still have bh59/69 to lvl with. If we want new players to enjoy this game that has been existing for the last 5 yrs now, there has to be a major change and that change needs to come from the plvling in FC that has happened over the last 2-3 yrs and counting. Does it matter if ppl leave due to FC being disabled or lvl limited? nope it doesnt, it just means that they wanted instant power and gratification more than to play a game that was meant to be fun and enjoyable for the rest of us. Like Venus just said and linked for you, do we really want to see posts being made asking whether its better to come back to a game that is on the brink of dying? or do we want to tell em to not come back cause the game is dying and theres no more effort that can be done. Everytime i go out to lower lvl areas like broken bow bluff and secret passage, its always a ghost area except a few ppl who want to do something to keep em busy.

So if we want to see the game become active again, than the plvling in FC has to go or pw as we knew it will no longer exist.

Kniraven - Lost City · September 2013

Hypers should be removed permanently from game

Colum - Raging Tide · September 2013

Wickedbrew - Raging Tide wrote: »

Actually, FC is one of the main reasons I have all but quit playing PWI. Everyone now is so hell bent on levelling as fast as they can, that in wc, unless its. PK epeen war or QQ, its all WTB/WTS full room, heads, boss and heads, or mobs boss and heads. So many "lvl [20 to 70 people] looking for FC"

There is little help with lower level content and as I said on a previous thread, if you do find help its a bored high level. I am all for level/hyper restrictions in FC. It was great fun when it was disabled.

Very well said. I have to say your posts are one of the best ones in the forums.

It was REALLY enjoyable time when people couldn't FC at all and I leveled my cleric from 94 to 95 without any issues. It was also fun to find PV squads for him!

Kniraven - Lost City · September 2013

Hypers contributed far more to this games decline than packs ever did

bobyjoee · September 2013

Im not sure why this is being discussed because it will never ever ever ever ever ever happen b:chuckle

Just because a few oldies want the game back to the way it use to be doesn't mean everyone wants it to be like that and it especially wont draw in a new crowd. God I would be so bored having to do these mind numbing menial quests. I wouldn't have a problem if they were any good, so thank god for hypers. What ive noticed in recent threads is that mostly, people want to rain on other peoples parades and make the game more boring. Like the charms for low lvls, yes it would be so fun having to run away from 2 mobs and meditating for a few minutes all the time, I would love that game and stay there forever. No i wouldnt, and this game would be more dead than you guys claim it already is if it was still like "in the old days" I am very greatful for FC, and whatever else you guys hate. Dont like fc? dont do it, dont like the charms? dont use them, dont like hypers? dont use them either. No one is forcing you to use them. So please stop trying to change the game with your "higher moral" ways and let it be.

Desdi - Sanctuary · September 2013

Meh I don't know, the quests updates and all the new additions to the game cab level you up quickly already even without using Hypers and doing FCCs. It's too late to remove them.

Kniraven - Lost City · September 2013

I disagree strongly

Colum - Raging Tide · September 2013

@ Brillance... I am not going to go through all the bias in your texts but I tell you this: RT is FULL OF players wanting to buy heads, selling heads, selling full FC runs..

I have 2 100+ chars, 2 90+ chars, 5 80+ chars. On the 100+ chars the very rare times I've soloed FC and sold it (when I was farming money for base) the spots sold IMMEDIATELY. Even when there was some competition going on in WC (several sellers started with same lvl range after me) I got PMs.

On my 90+ toons finding FC squad is fairly easy. People usualy run it by themselves. But at lvl 80-90.... things are different. Almost everyone at these levels rather buy heads than go for a squad run. I even don't care what I have in my squad despite one healer, yet I hardly find people to run FC. I usually have to rely on my faction.

Try looking at the WC 12:00 - 20:00 EST. That's the time period when people sell FC the most I think. If you go to Snowy Village you'll see people occasionally wanting to buy FC runs. If you were to form a faction, you'd get many members who ask you to solo it for them.

Need me to get screenies for you?

@ Thread - I miss the times when people actually ran BHs, PV, quested together no matter what level they were... My faction is quite old-fashioned, we don't powerlevel our people and we do stuff together quite a lot. It's still sad to see that people need to ask my main to solo their BHs because they cannot find squadmembers for them.

Kniraven - Lost City · September 2013

Pvp servers are the worst when it comes to hyper babies
Good amount of pvp though

Riverwell - Archosaur · September 2013

(There were so many different comments that I wanted to respond to that instead I just decided to write a wall of text with my thoughts after reading this thread.)

I barely actively look for BH at my level, it takes too much time and there's barely anyone wanting to do it. I'll ask in faction chat occasionally, and I'll respond to a world chat if there's someone making a squad, but the money and time burned from tele-ing forever to get people willing to run your instance is not how I prefer to play the game.

And while I appreciate high-levels running instances for lower-level characters, and I'm extremely grateful considering how impossible it is to get a squad of similar leveled characters to run it, it's exceedingly boring. I don't play a game to be bored.

And I suspect that new players would feel the same way. It used to be really awesome when a lvl 90 would run your BH39 because it meant you got a break for a day, but that wasn't a regular occurrence. Now that's like the only way to get the instance done.

I support hyper in FC level restriction. (Note that I'm not saying a level restriction on using hypers -- although that might be good too -- I'm saying a restriction on them in FC)

I'm sorry, but you should not be learning your class at level 70 or 80 or whenever you get out of FC. I just ran into someone today, level 71 who didn't even know what FB19 was, and just figured out how to use auto-path. Is FC the type of instance where you could learn even more about your class when you actually do runs? Sure, but you shouldn't be learning the basics of heal aggro, aggro control, canceling spells, amping / purging, pulling, running too far ahead / not keeping up, waiting for the healer, debuffing, purify, etc. You're simply supposed to be improving on the basics you've already learned. I don't want a cleric in my TT 1-3 run who is just starting to legitimately run instances.

The thing is that "back in the day" people wanted a way to level up after quests ran out because grinding day in and day out was boring (although you could make the argument that it encouraged open-world PvP on PvP servers). That's why they implemented BH, and IMO that was an amazing decision because it not only gives a crazy amount of exp (and I will argue that point to it's death XD) but because it also helped people learn their character.

My first main was a cleric, and I remember being terrified about being the healer in an instance and BH gave me a way to practice and learn my class. (I feel like there's a trend about learning your class here.)

As for how to fix the low influx of new players, I don't really know. You have to make open-world questing more desirable, and honestly take out the chests that give you fruit for exp. I just leveled up a new character the other day, and each fruit is a while level of exp. I leveled up to 19, and then realized that I couldn't even tab the FB19 because I didn't have enough rep because I didn't have to do as many quests. And this is before rep is really explained to you in game. It didn't used to matter that you had to have 80 rep to use your tab, because you would get that by questing which was the best way to level.

tl:dr

The thing is, it shouldn't be easy to get to a high level. Having a high level means that you've played this game enough that you know your class at least somewhat well. It shows time invested in the game. The problem is, you can't have the majority of the server at a high level because it was easy to get there and then restrict the ease of leveling because you'll essentially have a bunch of players who are abnormally high. And this is where I have to say, idk how or if PWI will recover from this.

Kniraven - Lost City · September 2013

Game has greater longevity if players are not put at disadvantage by choosing to partake in it's content.

Fiery_Demon - Heavens Tear · September 2013

Wow, I've never seen a thread like this before, what a shame since I strongly object to using hyper stones at all. FF should definitely be level restricted but I wouldn't take hypers out completely as it would upset many people who don't share my opinion, wich would lead to further downfall.

But all of you who say that disabling powerleveling would kill the game are completely wrong - it would bring more players instead. I know that people have started playing but quit after a week because they found no one else to play with. All the starting zones are empty as people just plvl to 80, so everyone who hasn't played the game before thinks it's dead. If there was no FF everyone would level up the regular way and we'd get more new players. After all, MMOs are about playing through the quests and the storylines, not about getting to max level asap and then sitting there. If you haven't realised that by now, I don't know what you're doing here, seriously.

But we have to accept that the game will never be what it once was, too much has changed over the years and I don't think the devs really care what the players have to say. Always nice to speculate tho.

Kniraven - Lost City · September 2013

Fiery_Demon - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Wow, I've never seen a thread like this before, what a shame since I strongly object to using hyper stones at all. FF should definitely be level restricted but I wouldn't take hypers out completely as it would upset many people who don't share my opinion, wich would lead to further downfall.

But all of you who say that disabling powerleveling would kill the game are completely wrong - it would bring more players instead. I know that people have started playing but quit after a week because they found no one else to play with. All the starting zones are empty as people just plvl to 80, so everyone who hasn't played the game before thinks it's dead. If there was no FF everyone would level up the regular way and we'd get more new players. After all, MMOs are about playing through the quests and the storylines, not about getting to max level asap and then sitting there. If you haven't realised that by now, I don't know what you're doing here, seriously.

But we have to accept that the game will never be what it once was, too much has changed over the years and I don't think the devs really care what the players have to say. Always nice to speculate tho.

Quoted for good portion of truth.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear · September 2013

Fiery_Demon - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Wow, I've never seen a thread like this before, what a shame since I strongly object to using hyper stones at all. FF should definitely be level restricted but I wouldn't take hypers out completely as it would upset many people who don't share my opinion, wich would lead to further downfall.

But all of you who say that disabling powerleveling would kill the game are completely wrong - it would bring more players instead. I know that people have started playing but quit after a week because they found no one else to play with. All the starting zones are empty as people just plvl to 80, so everyone who hasn't played the game before thinks it's dead. If there was no FF everyone would level up the regular way and we'd get more new players. After all, MMOs are about playing through the quests and the storylines, not about getting to max level asap and then sitting there. If you haven't realised that by now, I don't know what you're doing here, seriously.

But we have to accept that the game will never be what it once was, too much has changed over the years and I don't think the devs really care what the players have to say. Always nice to speculate tho.

PWI is 5 years since OBT started (sans one month for RC), the notion that any given company can flip a switch and magically generate new players after this amount of time by blowing up it's leveling system that's been in place (in practice by all servers) for at least 3 years now is ridiculous -- most of what you're suggesting here is excessively idealistic.

After the first few years an MMO has been out to the public (an F2P one no less) the ability to generate new players falters due to interest being more prominent in newer things. The best thing that could have been done for PWI is retaining it's current player base which comes from content. While they've had expansions pretty much every year or two, the content is lacking from it, and rather than put out effort to make more (new) difficult instances/dungeons, the PWI modus operandi is add new items to boutique mainly, and content-wise modify existing instances to make them more of a nuisance to many average geared players, which doesn't encourage squad play but alienates the bulk of players and instead gives incentive to leave.

The time for coulda/shoulda/woulda has passed, and this game is on the decline. I can only hope server merges happen sooner rather than later.

Kniraven - Lost City · September 2013

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

PWI is 5 years since OBT started, the notion that any given company can flip a switch and magically generate new players after this amount of time by blowing up it's leveling system that's been in place (in practice) for at least 3 years now is ridiculous -- most of what you're suggesting here is excessively idealistic.

After the first few years an MMO has been out to the public (an F2P one no less) the ability to generate new players falters due to interest being more prominent in newer things. The best thing that could have been done for PWI is retaining it's current player base which comes from content. While they've had expansions pretty much every year or two, the content is lacking from it, and rather than put out effort to make more (new) difficult instances/dungeons, the PWI modus operandi is add new items to boutique mainly, and content-wise modify existing instances to make them more of a nuisance to many average geared players, which doesn't encourage squad play but alienates the bulk of players and instead gives incentive to leave.

Nothing in your post is a supportive argument in regard to your position. You just provided unwarranted speculation and made a straw man argument

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear · September 2013

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

Nothing in your post is a supportive argument in regard to your position. You just provided unwarranted speculation and made a straw man argument

Weird that sounds exactly like your post here.

Do you have anything specific (or worthwhile) to refute?

Kniraven - Lost City · September 2013

Wan mei releases new end game content because the game is currently set up in a way which discourages the use of the decade in the making content available in it's original release.

The only reason being low level is not fun anymore is because nobody else is low level.

The world map is unpopulated, questing and things like WQ (despite recent updates) are not worth doing.

This kills player interaction
That is what is preventing further longevity in this game.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear · September 2013

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

Wan mei releases new end game content because the game is currently set up in a way which discourages the use of the decade in the making content available in it's original release.

The only reason being low level is not fun anymore is because nobody else is low level.

The world map is unpopulated, questing and things like WQ (despite recent updates) are not worth doing.

This kills player interaction
That is what is preventing further longevity in this game.

No one else low level, astute observation, Watson. Is R9 out yet as well?

No one else is low level because interest automatically declines the same way a car depreciates once it's taken off the lot. That's why those who now develop PWI, not ever oblivious to power leveling (when adding Oracles via tokens and other packs and hyper stones), gave incentive for people to hit high levels much quicker, and aimed content primarily toward endgame. At this point (which was back around the time of the TB expansion) it becomes an issue of retention. Retention has been poor because development is not at making new, difficult content, but modifying already existing content to make playing difficult for people they're trying to retain, primarily those averaged gear players and undergeared alts. This alienates the current base and causes retention to drop further, which is why I see a server merge in the near future as inevitable.

Disable hypers in frost, yes, no or LV restricted? FORGOTTEN THREAD

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