Remove Purify Proc: Y/N. We had it coming!
Comments
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Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »Nobody's saying that. One of the main reasons we argue against it is because at this point in time Casters are anything but weak. A proper genie with proper gear makes them hard to lock down even without Purify Spell, it's simply not needed. A Caster can escape locks without it. Go tell me how a melee trying to kill a Caster without GoF works out though.
I have no problem with GoF
Do you?0 -
Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »If it takes a caster 10 hits to kill a melee in equal gear, I think it stands to reason that melees should be able to do the same if in the same gear and the melee attacks the caster, if not slightly surpass that number of hits to kill a caster once they get near. (casters have a damage + element of surprise on their side, melee's do not really have either, all they arguably have is hp.... HAH.. what a joke when casters still hit so hard, and its far easier for you all to attack and remain safe from multiple attacks pretty much EVERY single time you attack. xD)
I must admit I do not know if that is the case in EQUAL gear fights, but still I am sure there are videos that do not coincide with that belief at all, which I find to be quite sad, I know for bms it has already been said without gof a well geared caster can easily survive the hits of a en endgame bm, which in my honest opinion is a further testament that the purify proc isn't needed at all to face a bm, and ergo it is far from balanced to them.
Pretty much agree.
A bunch of things though are unnecessary and really break the game. However the devs really do not care and nothing will probably be done about it. Many of these changes nevertheless have screwed over the bm class time and time again. One of the many reasons less and less people play them.
Heck, purify among many other game breaking things caused many people to leave. Which is the reason why you can consider this game pretty a ghost town. Even if they removed purify like they need to do. You really think the people that got shafted time and time again and left are going to come back? Nope, simply just leave and spend your time elsewhere.
As to purify. The only real justification for it would be aps and sins, both can be very op.
So the only good modification would be this and it would be 4 things.
1. remove speed buff
2. change proc rate from 8% to 16%
3. make it work only on auto attacks
4. make it only work against dagger and fist/claw weapons.
That would be the end of it. Imagine the lulz though of it being implemented or better yet given to every r9 set. b:laugh
They may need to make an emote to that prevents auto attacks so people are less likely to **** up. Also, even if it was implemented there still would be a ton of things the devs need to fix.
To that I say meh.....0 -
Crazybladema - Harshlands wrote: »Pretty much agree.
A bunch of things though are unnecessary and really break the game. However the devs really do not care and nothing will probably be done about it. Many of these changes nevertheless have screwed over the bm class time and time again. One of the many reasons less and less people play them.
Heck, purify among many other game breaking things caused many people to leave. Which is the reason why you can consider this game pretty a ghost town. Even if they removed purify like they need to do. You really think the people that got shafted time and time again and left are going to come back? Nope, simply just leave and spend your time elsewhere.
As to purify. The only real justification for it would be aps and sins, both can be very op.
So the only good modification would be this and it would be 4 things.
1. remove speed buff
2. change proc rate from 8% to 16%
3. make it work only on auto attacks
4. make it only work against dagger and fist/claw weapons.
That would be the end of it. Imagine the lulz though of it being implemented or better yet given to every r9 set. b:laugh
They may need to make an emote to that prevents auto attacks so people are less likely to **** up. Also, even if it was implemented there still would be a ton of things the devs need to fix.
To that I say meh.....
To add to your troll statement i say 'Snowflake in hell' b:laugh0 -
I really doubt anyone has left the game for purify. To undergeared people this really doesn't affect them because they weren't able to kill the people who have purify prok in the 1st place. And those who are geared up can deal with the prok.
If anyone has left is because they want something in the game, like being op, but they can't get it, so they get tired and leave.0 -
Azura - Lost City wrote: »I really doubt anyone has left the game for purify. To undergeared people this really doesn't affect them because they weren't able to kill the people who have purify prok in the 1st place. And those who are geared up can deal with the prok.
If anyone has left is because they want something in the game, like being op, but they can't get it, so they get tired and leave.
Good lord the sheer amount of wrong of this statement.0 -
Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »Good lord the sheer amount of wrong of this statement.
In Zan's logic= if someone doesn't agree or think like me, that one is an idiot.
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Azura - Lost City wrote: »In Zan's logic= if someone doesn't agree or think like me, that one is an idiot.
You seem to have me confused with most of those in favor of Purify Spell.0 -
Azura - Lost City wrote: »I really doubt anyone has left the game for purify. To undergeared people this really doesn't affect them because they weren't able to kill the people who have purify prok in the 1st place. And those who are geared up can deal with the prok.
If anyone has left is because they want something in the game, like being op, but they can't get it, so they get tired and leave.
Have known a few people who simply got tired of not being able to "kill" the squishy classes no matter what they do. Some of them are harder to kill then the 50k hp barbs. One has stopped pking, the other has quit (can't say its directly because of this, think it's one of many things PWE has done).
And it does effect undergeared people because even if you can't kill a caster you can lock them and get away. Now, they can stun them and try to run but if someone else hits the caster, or if their purify proc because of you're stun attack you're screwed. Also, many people work with their squads and will hold a caster until heavier DDs come in, especially if they're not well geared. They can still be useful in otherways by doing things like purges, debuffing, and controlling opponents. That's now impossible because they can't control the opponent and so purging or debuffing becomes too risky.
I do think its funny that you now need a squad, coordinated seals, coordinated debuffs and HFs to kill catabarbs and... 5 caster classes.Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory0 -
The only reason I haven't been replying to this thread is because I'm now looking for a game that is less luck based, lol.Zsw -104 Sage Assassin
TehZsw - 100 Demon Archer
All Luck No Skillz PvPer: youtube.com/user/zsw0070 -
Azura - Lost City wrote: »I really doubt anyone has left the game for purify. To undergeared people this really doesn't affect them because they weren't able to kill the people who have purify prok in the 1st place. And those who are geared up can deal with the prok.
If anyone has left is because they want something in the game, like being op, but they can't get it, so they get tired and leave.
Actually quite a few people have left. I know 3 or actually 4 if I include myself. A better way of putting it was it was the icing on the cake that made many leave.
I got trolled when nw came out because I spent all my time farming and merchanting for nirvana and +10 refines on it. On top of that the farming/merching process took about 5 months so yea....
Sins trolled me in pvp but I adapted to them with the right genie setup. I also adapted to high soulforce Psychic's and highly refined r9. That was done with learning my class and pure skill.
But I could not find a "reliable" strategy save for a highly coordinated group strike with highly refined g16 vana (+7 or better) to take down some of the purify wielding monstrosities on my server.
Where as before it took maybe two. Sometimes one very skilled player to take down some of the r9s that I come across. This was when purify wasn't a factor. But now this really isn't possible on 5 of the classes now.
Its ridiculous
Its so ridiculous that it has made people quit and look for a new game. Me being one of them.
Yes people have quit over it.0 -
And this thread still stands... f:meh
Plus 1Sage barb in progress.0 -
Well luck factors can work in games, but some classes are just not designed based on luck while other classes are.
Casters don't miss, their damage are high, or they have ways of increasing their damage. Casters in fights look for chances to carry out their combo. When that combo is done you're supposed to be dead unless you cheated with your genie or something. I see some casters sometimes taunt disabled opponents with 2 sparks and then cancel just to coax out genie immunities. If a caster crits, you died sooner than the caster expected. I don't think any caster just nukes and hopes to luck out. They might poke around for an opening, but once that opening comes they are going to do their stuff, the only luck factor is the opening presenting itself.
Barbs are like that as well. If an opponent is very fat (like another heavy), a barb might poke around until he purges, but when the opportunity presents itself, a barb will have that arma (or some other mired combo) to deal with you.
Archers don't really have combos. What are you going to do to a caster? Use metal combos? All archers have is some debuffs, auto attacks, and luck. There is no high damage combo, there is shoot and get lucky. If SBH is 8% like people say, you shoot someone 20 times you have a good chance of purging in 20 hits. Of course no one is going to stand around long enough for that, so the trick is to survive long enough so you poke enough. It sort of works out because archers don't really devote much resources (genies, chi) into killing, rather an archer uses it for defense so they can try again and again.
That is the difference between a class that is luck based and a class that is not. It's OK for luck to be in the game, and some classes are just designed like that.Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
Qui: b:dirty0 -
Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »The only reason I haven't been replying to this thread is because I'm now looking for a game that is less luck based, lol.
says the sin with gof and tidal protection
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Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »Well luck factors can work in games, but some classes are just not designed based on luck while other classes are.
Casters don't miss, their damage are high, or they have ways of increasing their damage. Casters in fights look for chances to carry out their combo. When that combo is done you're supposed to be dead unless you cheated with your genie or something. I see some casters sometimes taunt disabled opponents with 2 sparks and then cancel just to coax out genie immunities. If a caster crits, you died sooner than the caster expected. I don't think any caster just nukes and hopes to luck out. They might poke around for an opening, but once that opening comes they are going to do their stuff, the only luck factor is the opening presenting itself.
Barbs are like that as well. If an opponent is very fat (like another heavy), a barb might poke around until he purges, but when the opportunity presents itself, a barb will have that arma (or some other mired combo) to deal with you.
Archers don't really have combos. What are you going to do to a caster? Use metal combos? All archers have is some debuffs, auto attacks, and luck. There is no high damage combo, there is shoot and get lucky. If SBH is 8% like people say, you shoot someone 20 times you have a good chance of purging in 20 hits. Of course no one is going to stand around long enough for that, so the trick is to survive long enough so you poke enough. It sort of works out because archers don't really devote much resources (genies, chi) into killing, rather an archer uses it for defense so they can try again and again.
That is the difference between a class that is luck based and a class that is not. It's OK for luck to be in the game, and some classes are just designed like that.
archers attack faster than casters and have 60+% crit at end game. can nuke a lot of ppl if they dont have godly gears.0 -
what i wanna know is when purify will be announced here forever or removed for good
? come now gms have you seen the peoples word yet? 0 -
ApocaIypto - Dreamweaver wrote: »archers attack faster than casters and have 60+% crit at end game. can nuke a lot of ppl if they dont have godly gears.
As every demon has a 10% buff w/ stun or STA, let's assume 70% crit at endgame, at 70% crit, 5 chain crits in a row is about 15% chance...you may think that's a lot...so is the 10% chance for stun arrow to hit but not stun. At 2k per hit, u crit 5 times (kind of pushing it too because stun doesn't exactly last for 5 hits, even Sage) you will tick an endgame caster's charm if they don't do anything about it (ie: just stand there stunned and not genie). That is unless you purge. All I'm saying in that last post is that the class is designed to be luck based.
On the offensive, archers depend on luck. Any skill associated with playing archer involves staying alive so they can roll their dice.
2k per hit is an upper end estimate assuming 20k caster pdef and 100 def lv. Archer weapon is +12 R93rd with 130 atk lv and 700 dex. A lot of endgame casters could have more than 20k pdef, some could have temporary buffs as well.Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
Qui: b:dirty0 -
StewieGrifin - Archosaur wrote: »what i wanna know is when purify will be announced here forever or removed for good? come now gms have you seen the peoples word yet?
Trust me they can't remove the proc even if they wanted to. This is coming from a company that just published a game that's broken. You know of which I speak, go read the mmobomb review of pwe's latest "masterpeice" b:laugh.
I wish Val would respond to the thread. It be nice even if he doesn't know anything. Seriously..... it be nice...0 -
Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »2k per hit is an upper end estimate assuming 20k caster pdef and 100 def lv. Archer weapon is +12 R93rd with 130 atk lv and 700 dex. A lot of endgame casters could have more than 20k pdef, some could have temporary buffs as well.
100k pdef might possible with lv100 bm buff and 50% damage reduce in bubble...*sarcasm*i am waiting for you my little flagcarriers b:kiss0 -
Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »The only reason I haven't been replying to this thread is because I'm now looking for a game that is less luck based, lol.
i always felt it was all about luck here.. b:surrenderBahamas represent0 -
Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »As every demon has a 10% buff w/ stun or STA, let's assume 70% crit at endgame, at 70% crit, 5 chain crits in a row is about 15% chance...you may think that's a lot...so is the 10% chance for stun arrow to hit but not stun. At 2k per hit, u crit 5 times (kind of pushing it too because stun doesn't exactly last for 5 hits, even Sage) you will tick an endgame caster's charm if they don't do anything about it (ie: just stand there stunned and not genie). That is unless you purge. All I'm saying in that last post is that the class is designed to be luck based.
On the offensive, archers depend on luck. Any skill associated with playing archer involves staying alive so they can roll their dice.
2k per hit is an upper end estimate assuming 20k caster pdef and 100 def lv. Archer weapon is +12 R93rd with 130 atk lv and 700 dex. A lot of endgame casters could have more than 20k pdef, some could have temporary buffs as well.
Quilue, you're a reasonable person and usually do reasonable analysis of this game, but 2k damage from r9t3 archer attacks? I do about that with my +5 G15 flawless sharded claw archer who only has around 500 dex.
My typical experience with my R9t3 BM, 80ish defense levels and 21k pdef, 20k mdef is the archers hitting 3-5k, 7-10k crits, 15k high end crits.
We've been having a lolfest in skype call with archers claiming they only hit for 2k and rarely chain crits...Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory0 -
Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »Quilue, you're a reasonable person and usually do reasonable analysis of this game, but 2k damage from r9t3 archer attacks? I do about that with my +5 G15 flawless sharded claw archer who only has around 500 dex.
My typical experience with my R9t3 BM, 80ish defense levels and 21k pdef, 20k mdef is the archers hitting 3-5k, 7-10k crits, 15k high end crits.
We've been having a lolfest in skype call with archers claiming they only hit for 2k and rarely chain crits...
b:chuckle I agree with you. purge bow + criti = OP and auto attack.the survival of the fittest
-Thx all suport sell me SoW for 5M b:thanks tome/ring
!!!SUPPORT OUR TROOPS!!!0 -
This post / poll was started on 04-13-2013 and here it is 05-27-2013 .. AT NO TIME has the numbers EVER SUPPORTED the removal or nerfing of the purify proc ...
*YAWNS * Next Poll .. Favorite flavor of Ice Cream .....0 -
marvinhuddleston wrote: »This post / poll was started on 04-13-2013 and here it is 05-27-2013 .. AT NO TIME has the numbers EVER SUPPORTED the removal or nerfing of the purify proc ...
*YAWNS * Next Poll .. Favorite flavor of Ice Cream .....
poll isnt going away until the next anniversary. When the games prolly gonna shut down. Purify has really made a mess of things in single and group pvp.
So ya... people gonna be a tad mad about it for a while. Until something is done.0 -
thread still going going going b:chuckleWhat can you expect from filthy little heathens? Their whole disgusting race is like a curse. Their skin's a hellish red they're only good when dead they're vermin, as I said and worse. They're Savages! Savages! Barely even human. Savages! Savages! Drive them from our shore! They're not like you and me
which means they must be evil we must sound the drums of war! They're Savages! Savages! Dirty redskin devils! Now we sound the drums of war!0 -
Purify isn't OP. Get over it. The only reason you guys are QQing is because of NW flag carrying. If running off with a flag on a speed boost is OP then archers have the same problem (though not as strong of course). If you take NW out of the equation, none of you would be complaining. People were complaining before about archer speed buff being unfair, now that there are more and more purify users the focus got shifted. NW isn't the only thing in this game and casters benefit from this defensive proc outside it.
I read earlier that NW is going to change later that it wouldn't just be flag carrying in an earlier post? If this is indeed true then this wouldn't even be an issue later on.
Purify shouldn't be nerfed because of one event. Maybe the flag carrying should be modified but that means archers shouldn't be allowed to speed buff like crazy down to the goal either.
If purify is ALWAYS keeping you from killing someone outside of flag carrying, then you're just not fighting strategically or your gear is subpar. If someone with purify always dies to everyone, then it wouldn't be useful at all.
Okay maybe I'm being a little harsh but this thread is getting a little ridiculous.
Edit: Did some people's post get deleted or something? I thought I saw more before mine.
Edit: Pick at it all you want Decus. That wasn't even a logical connection between the two. That's all some of you seem to do--pick at small things that people say and make loose connections. I could write paragraphs clarifying everything I mean clearly and concisely but I didn't give enough of a sh*t to do that at the time. I'm not replying here with a new post since I don't want to bump this thread any further. When I said "though not as strong of course" that does not mean purify is OP. lol. I am comparing it with the speed portion of purify to the speed skill of an archer. "Not as strong" probably was the wrong term to use so my apologies for that. Archer's speed buff require some spark to use but it's enough to get the person to cap the flag with Apoth. Purify relies on chance..there's a chance that it will proc more times but there's the chance that it won't. Pros and cons for both. At the time I was thinking that purify doesn't require spark so the problem for speed buff may not be as strong for an archer. However... now that I think about it again, chi is pretty easy to get if you have a genie and archer's don't have to rely on chance.0 -
MasterPerian - Lost City wrote: »thread still going going going b:chuckle
Dat siggy
(I prefer the tribes side of the savages song though
) Gifs are hard to make work here0 -
Aquiminthe - Sanctuary wrote: »Purify isn't OP. Get over it. The only reason you guys are QQing is because of NW flag carrying. If running off with a flag on a speed boost is OP then archers have the same problem (though not as strong of course). If you take NW out of the equation, none of you would be complaining.
So basically, you've said the same thing most of the people "complaining" have said. Cool Proving that not only archers do math since 2009. b:victory
Current math challenge: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1029711&page=45
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Any skills that can be used to kill you will interrupt BB when successful." -truekossy | "...Sage archers are kind of like Mac owners. They are proud of the weirdest and most unnecessary things." -Aesthor | "We ALL know Jesus doesn't play PWI. He may have suffered a lot for humanity, but he'd NEVER punish himself this way." -Abstractive | "I approve of bananas." -SashaGray0 -
Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »Quilue, you're a reasonable person and usually do reasonable analysis of this game, but 2k damage from r9t3 archer attacks? I do about that with my +5 G15 flawless sharded claw archer who only has around 500 dex.
My typical experience with my R9t3 BM, 80ish defense levels and 21k pdef, 20k mdef is the archers hitting 3-5k, 7-10k crits, 15k high end crits.
We've been having a lolfest in skype call with archers claiming they only hit for 2k and rarely chain crits...
Depends on what you're hitting. I highly doubt you hit 2k on a fully buffed R93 robe with a +5 bow, because last NW i was hitting ~300 with my R9+10 on Bele_Wiz (at least I think it was Bele from the portrait). Purged him and hit 800.
Watch one of Ast's NW videos, and see what kind of damage she does on anyone with good gear.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTyiHEGizqs&list=UU5h99BIajThgsewfOn02B_A&index=2
Several times Ast fights Ruv, see what damage Ast does. Even if you count def charm do a little math and tell me I exaggerated. That's just self-buffed, and I don't even think Ruvil's wiz has the best orns defensively, because Ruv was -chan junkie and probably using OHT orns.
idk wtf is wrong with your BM either, look at how high Ast hits Dan for.
Ast hits 10k on HatsuneMiku_, don't see how your BM gets hit for 5k with that kind of gear. You sure you didn't unequipped yourself accidentally?Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
Qui: b:dirty0 -
Hey everyone,
At this point, it's pretty clear that this issue is fairly divisive and controversial, and essentially all the arguments that can be made have been made.
I'll forward these concerns to the rest of the PWI Team and poke our dev team about whether this balance issue needs to be addressed.
I can't promise any outcomes, one way or the other, but I think that after all this discussion and argument, it's worth informing the rest of the team of these concerns.
I'm closing this thread now, as I feel it's served it's purpose.
Thanks everyone!
Edit:
Just to clarify, at this point, I've forwarded this issue, along with certain key arguments for and against changing the weapon proc, simply to inform our team that this is worth evaluating. Not to determine how to change it, but whether it needs a change, from a gameplay balance perspective.
Thanks!
- Val0
This discussion has been closed.
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