Remove Purify Proc: Y/N. We had it coming!

OIdpop - Heavens Tear

What 160 pages....close this,it's just people raging over and over.

Sweetiebot how many times did I post in this thread?

SweetieBot - Lothranis

OIdpop - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Sweetiebot how many times did I post in this thread?

That is unfortunate is it not?

Decus - Dreamweaver

Circular? Yes. Raging? No.

Repeatedly calling this to be closed suits no purpose. Is it bad to want a word from Hey, You! ?

OIdpop - Heavens Tear

Your just as blind as your formula

Regenbogen - Lost City

Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Circular? Yes. Raging? No.

Repeatedly calling this to be closed suits no purpose. Is it bad to want a word from Hey, You! ?

Zanryular! f:hehe

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

hehe, no rude at all, feel free to be more harsh XD

Basically my point of view is based on coin earning. Feel free to call me greedy hehe. But in a game where coin = power I think that coin making is important. So far, I have not seen any evidence that puri casters make way more (=orders of magnitude more) supply tokens than the rest, equally geared people. In fact, I don't think that they get a ton more tokens than less geared people (not really talking about tt90, though, something like g16). PVE-wise, in what farming is left, they hardly have an advantage; even today, a cookie cutter sin could make more/faster. So, while the battle advantage might be huge, they don't get the 5aps coin gain advantage (and pve opness; sure a r9rr+12 caster can tank WS but what's the point if it's painfully slow?). So, in the big picture, it's not that OP, compared to the int craze.

Of course, that's a certain view, (someone's that's not focused on pvp/merching only?) and naturally I do am a bit biased. For the record, I do think that all speed boosts should be removed when you are carrying a flag.

I can't help it, I don't like being rude... nor do I care to resort to name calling when others are not on my 'side.' (Yes I even hate resorting to name calling if they 'deserve' it or really are being 'stupid." -Which you aren't doing either. ) Don't get me wrong though, if snapped at, I do snap back. *hides* Also I admit there are times where my patience or w/e this is called got the best of me, and I let my anger flare up so to speak.

Anyways I do agree with you, while they aren't earning more tokens then anyone else, its clear to see that MANY people so prefer to be on a magic class in nw. (I for one seriously doubt it is just due to the fact that there are far more caster/"ranged" classes in game, then true melee's.)

While you may not have implied this, others might... just because casters aren't earning more tokens is still not an valid argument (IMO) that the purify proc is balanced. (I am sure this will by no means sway anyone who is for the purify proc to remain as is, still. I still have the opinion that it is a broken proc, at least to an extent, even if it has it's weaknesses.)

Decus - Dreamweaver

OIdpop - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Your just as blind as your formula

Uh huh. Who's raging now?

Also, you'd do well not to criticize my eyesight given you apparently cannot tell the difference between "you're" and "your."




Anyway, as has been said repeatedly, I think most people (casters included) can agree that the speed on the proc is what causes the issues as far as subverting the flag carry mechanic is concerned. (I am not interested in the OP-ness debate.) Aeliah has proposed to reduce the proc chance. I still think the speed is the problem, but would a reduction of the proc chance ameliorate the issues?

klys

Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I think most people (casters included)

No.




There is nothing wrong with the purify proc.
Maybe if i keep repeating myself over and over with walls of text i might change someone's mind.

Decus - Dreamweaver

klys wrote: »

No.




There is nothing wrong with the purify proc.
Maybe if i keep repeating myself over and over with walls of text i might change someone's mind.

Did you even read what you quoted?

...can agree that the speed on the proc is what causes the issues

Now, try to understand that. Whether you agree that there is a problem or not, most people have said, many times, caster included, that the issue stems from speed in NW. That is all I said, and I think it sums up the portion of the debate on where there is a consensus.

Maybe if I tell people to read enough times, I might improve someone's comprehension.

klys

"most people" "speed on the proc" "speed in NW"

comprehension skills.

What the minority of people here (mostly bms) are whining about is a mechanic of NW.

The purify proc is fine.
Maybe if i keep repeating myself over and over with walls of text i might change someone's mind.

Crazybladema - Harshlands

klys wrote: »

"most people" "speed on the proc" "speed in NW"

comprehension skills.

What the minority of people here (mostly bms) are whining about is a mechanic of NW.

The purify proc is fine.
Maybe if i keep repeating myself over and over with walls of text i might change someone's mind.

well there's a good reason why bms are upset. They had a hard enough time with pvp really before this proc.

I know its hard to understand because you don't pvp much, yes I checked your accomplishments. You haven't even reached the 100 mark pvp wise and your toons suggest hyper leveling.

Ill tell you though why bms are here "whining". They are a low dd class that rely on stuns to kill. More accurately they really on costly chi combos stuns/dg/spike in order to kill.

Because bms are low dd and it takes quite a few hits to take out other people on a bm. They really get the short end of the stick on purify. Simply because they rely on a series of stuns and costly drawn out combos.

It really makes me shake my head that people don't understand this.

On top of this purify messes with group/single pvp as well. Its unnecessarily overpowered and not really needed. It was even a deciding factor in my leaving of the game. It shouldn't be nerfed just "removed". Also, I will keep this topic alive as long as possible in order to help keep the game enjoyable to those that still play.

klys

I'm ranked near the top of my class you tool.

Your last paragraph shows that YOU don't pvp- you also don't even play the game.

Shoo troll.

The purify proc is fine.
Maybe if i keep repeating myself over and over with walls of text i might change someone's mind.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

klys wrote: »

I'm ranked near the top of my class you tool.

Your last paragraph shows that YOU don't pvp- you also don't even play the game.

Shoo troll.

The purify proc is fine.
Maybe if i keep repeating myself over and over with walls of text i might change someone's mind.

Dem stonefaces.

trands

Crazybladema - Harshlands wrote: »

well there's a good reason why bms are upset. They had a hard enough time with pvp really before this proc.

I know its hard to understand because you don't pvp much, yes I checked your accomplishments. You haven't even reached the 100 mark pvp wise and your toons suggest hyper leveling.

There are tons of players posting with other accounts then their main. You shouldn't make silly assumptions like those

Crazybladema - Harshlands wrote: »

Ill tell you though why bms are here "whining". They are a low dd class that rely on stuns to kill. More accurately they really on costly chi combos stuns/dg/spike in order to kill.

Because bms are low dd and it takes quite a few hits to take out other people on a bm. They really get the short end of the stick on purify. Simply because they rely on a series of stuns and costly drawn out combos.

It really makes me shake my head that people don't understand this.

On top of this purify messes with group/single pvp as well. Its unnecessarily overpowered and not really needed. It was even a deciding factor in my leaving of the game. It shouldn't be nerfed just "removed". Also, I will keep this topic alive as long as possible in order to help keep the game enjoyable to those that still play.

If you take a look at the bm, archer and sin forums, you'll see how insanely higher dps is through auto attacks. That's why I think it's completly justified there have been several nerfs in the ability to immobilize a target and auto attack it too death. It's more a discusion of how this is done, and wether it's OP or not.

This probably affected bms more then any other class, but it's just karma biting you in the behind. It's the first time bms aren't good and wanted for the popular thing of these days. It will change soon enough. At least be happy that you don't have casters telling you should be happy with them having purify on their weapon.

From this thread, it's pretty obvious it's mainly a bm (and some sins) vs wizard (the one with the highest phys def and hardest hits). On top of that, a large deal of the anti-purify bms can't even make a post without insults, making them loose in credibility big time.

Veneir - Dreamweaver

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Dem stonefaces.

Wha Kossy's a stoneface!
Sorry every time I see a negative connotation of stonefaces I think of Kossy even though it's 'different' or something
This
is
stupid (all one link) This=thread OTL

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

trands wrote: »

There are tons of players posting with other accounts then their main. You shouldn't make silly assumptions like those



If you take a look at the bm, archer and sin forums, you'll see how insanely higher dps is through auto attacks. That's why I think it's completly justified there have been several nerfs in the ability to immobilize a target and auto attack it too death. It's more a discusion of how this is done, and wether it's OP or not.

This probably affected bms more then any other class, but it's just karma biting you in the behind. It's the first time bms aren't good and wanted for the popular thing of these days. It will change soon enough. At least be happy that you don't have casters telling you should be happy with them having purify on their weapon.

From this thread, it's pretty obvious it's mainly a bm (and some sins) vs wizard (the one with the highest phys def and hardest hits). On top of that, a large deal of the anti-purify bms can't even make a post without insults, making them loose in credibility big time.

To be fair some people who are for it, actually "started" it, they just stooped down to their level so to speak. (I am NOT condoning this behavior, but meh really I can't blame them for being short, its hard to have patience with others who refuse to see things 'your' way, especially when their reasoning is so arguably flawed.)

I absolutely agree this effects the bm's the most, but I really don't think they were ever that much of a threat to anyone unless they had some seriously haxed gear, I remember the early tw's that I was able to participate in, I got this and I quote. "Anti-stun, run in, stun, hf, and just die." or something REALLY close to that, it really hasn't changed all that much, they really are a support class. (which would still be fine, if what we do wasn't ruined by a overpowered proc.)

Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Circular? Yes. Raging? No.

Repeatedly calling this to be closed suits no purpose. Is it bad to want a word from Hey, You! ?

To be honest I can't see him posting one way of the other on whether or not this will be nerfed, I suspect if we do see a nerf to this proc it will come silently/a big news article about it. I am sure they realize IF they nerf it there will be backlash about it, ergo they like anyone else would want to get it done ASAP, and let people 'rage' about it after it's done. (I don't recall them saying they would or wouldn't nerf aps in the anti aps threads... it's been a while since I read the threads on those requests.

Perhaps I am wrong though, maybe they will post about it, it would possibly stop all the arguments if he came on and said 'the devs feel it's "balanced" and it WON'T be nerfed, which would absolutely frustrate me to no end, but if the feel it's balanced then i'll have no choice but to accept it. Even if I don't agree with them thinking it's "balanced." (I for one seriously hope this isn't the case, but well we will just have to wait and see.

I still don't see how its fair to the early end game ppl that are getting owned by the r93r casters, even if they happen to get lucky get near enough to stun the r93r caster they (the caster) still has quite a chance to skate away and continue their onslaught of attacks on the melee, which in all likely hood they started long before the melee is able to get near. (Specifically bm's... so MUCH chi required to do practically anything on it. Again I say marrows are an absolute joke in mass pvp unless the bm has some seriously haxed gear, ergo I and others absolutely feel the bm class is by far the most gimped class in game. [Any other class in similar gear can at least do some kind of attack back without getting pwnt left and right before they even get near, the only one that comes close is sins, but even then they at least have deaden nerves/focused mind, etc to allow them to get close, that isn't even mentioning how useful stealth is for them at times.])

trands

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

To be fair some people who are for it, actually "started" it, they just stooped down to their level so to speak. (I am NOT condoning this behavior, but meh really I can't blame them for being short, its hard to have patience with others who refuse to see things 'your' way, especially when their reasoning is so arguably flawed.)

Come on now, there are especially 2 that are know several years for their bad mouths. I think the mods have been extremely tolerant towards the number of insults. To be clear, I'm talking about clear open insults of words that should be censured.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I absolutely agree this effects the bm's the most, but I really don't think they were ever that much of a threat to anyone unless they had some seriously haxed gear, I remember the early tw's that I was able to participate in, I got this and I quote. "Anti-stun, run in, stun, hf, and just die." or something REALLY close to that, it really hasn't changed all that much, they really are a support class. (which would still be fine, if what we do wasn't ruined by a overpowered proc.)

Like I said somewhere in all those pages. Yes I'm biaised. Seeing many of those who tried to tell me I should be happy aps farmers made prices drop so I wouldn't have to play that horrible game I was playing, now QQ about not being so great in the new popular instance (NW). Seeing those who posted at least 10x the pages of this thread with figures of auto attacks out dps anything skill based, now cry about a 100 multiplier on magic not being fair. It's highly amusing !

But still, I'd accept a nerf or tweak on purify spell if that would make them feel better.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

trands wrote: »

Come on now, there are especially 2 that are know several years for their bad mouths. I think the mods have been extremely tolerant towards the number of insults. To be clear, I'm talking about clear open insults of words that should be censured.



Like I said somewhere in all those pages. Yes I'm biaised. Seeing many of those who tried to tell me I should be happy aps farmers made prices drop so I wouldn't have to play that horrible game I was playing, now QQ about not being so great in the new popular instance (NW). Seeing those who posted at least 10x the pages of this thread with figures of auto attacks out dps anything skill based, now cry about a 100 multiplier on magic not being fair. It's highly amusing !

But still, I'd accept a nerf or tweak on purify spell if that would make them feel better.

I don't really wish to continue off track, but aye I have seen their behavior elsewhere, ergo I didn't condone it.

---

As for the purify proc... well I don't really have anything to add about that. (I do agree it is a SAD vicious circle apsers said to reroll to an aps class, and now casters are saying reroll. For the record I didn't agree with the apsers that said to reroll (even if I didn't voice my displeasure with apsers telling casters to reroll, still I don't like being told to reroll by the casters who are telling me to do this.... sadly I have already done so, I use my seeker for nw these days.)

ApocaIypto - Dreamweaver

SweetieBot, remove Purify and replace it with God of Frenzy

thank you

Quilue - Sanctuary

Of course BMs and Sins have to have higher DPS, it's completely justified that they should lock someone down and put their higher DPS into use. It's because they are

MELEE.

Until people can understand basic concepts and stop spouting ****, this thread is ****. I didn't really expect anything productive to come out of this thread (ie: devs reacting to forums), but I did at least expected not-so-**** arguments to be made so this could be an interesting read.

HrunsPanda - Archosaur

We had it coming

trands

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Of course BMs and Sins have to have higher DPS, it's completely justified that they should lock someone down and put their higher DPS into use. It's because they are

MELEE.

Lock someone down, yes. Kill someone in a single 3~5 sec stun, no.

Anyway, that is my opinion and if you actually read what I wrote, you would know I didn't make it a justification for purify spell in the way it is right now. Been there, done that. Nobody agrees, who cares, it won't change anyway. For me, it is totally justified they broke the easy aps kills, and the debate is on wether they did to much or not with morai skills, more physical defense gain and purify spell r9rr for casters.

Don't spout out your star words without even trying to understand what was written. It doesn't fit archers.

Selak - Dreamweaver

~50% for and ~50% against in this poll.

Would have expected the results to be as unbalanced as the procs are supposed to be.
Unless the results are accurate and the procs are not as unbalanced as some want to make them out to be.

I suppose its true the squeaky wheel gets the oil first and I can understand you all continuing to squeak hoping for change, but the poll says it all.

I do not think it would be in anyone's best interest to change things until the poll results are as biased as the procs are supposed to be.

FayHumming - Dreamweaver

b:laugh full josd +12 seeker 1hit ko full +12 josd psy, 2x in a row

f:confused what is OP, power to 1hit ko or QQ about stupid stuff

Quilue - Sanctuary

trands wrote: »

Lock someone down, yes. Kill someone in a single 3~5 sec stun, no.

Anyway, that is my opinion and if you actually read what I wrote, you would know I didn't make it a justification for purify spell in the way it is right now. Been there, done that. Nobody agrees, who cares, it won't change anyway. For me, it is totally justified they broke the easy aps kills, and the debate is on wether they did to much or not with morai skills, more physical defense gain and purify spell r9rr for casters.

Don't spout out your star words without even trying to understand what was written. It doesn't fit archers.

Do you even fight other players? If you don't PvP at least watch some videos and tell me who dies in 3-5 seconds of stun against someone with equal gears?

Auto attacks from melee aps stopped being that powerful when endgame robes got decent defenses. Do you know how long BMs can stun and still not manage to kill? I've charmed tanked T3 claws, and I'm not even Jade sharded. Just a few posts back, I posted a +12 archer would hit 1.8k on a target with 20k pdef and 100 def levels, and that's not even the highest robe pdef can go. You don't even know how the game is when people gear up, and here you claim physical classes shouldn't be able to stun and auto attack people to death.

BlackRapture - Raging Tide

xD Wow, so mages finally get a weapon perk and everyone goes nuts? The idea of it is simple- to counter the stunlocks and kite opponents.like they're supposed to. Is that so bad? 5 seconds of being faster with an antistun is pretty balanced. It's not significantly raising ANY attack or channeling, it's not defuffing, it's not stunning or sealing opponents. What if we got that kinda perk? Hell, what if us mages got Sacrificial Strike or something that doubled our damage for a bit of our low hp pool? Most psychics would slaughter us. What is it had a chance to take away the channelling of a spell when we used one? See what I'm getting at? You guise are complaining about mages getting our kites back on. Because you can't just keep stunning us while we take your damage relentlessly, unable to escape. This doesn't make us god-like, we still gotta take your hits to get the perk.

AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver

BlackRapture - Raging Tide wrote: »

xD Wow, so mages finally get a weapon perk and everyone goes nuts? The idea of it is simple- to counter the stunlocks and kite opponents.like they're supposed to. Is that so bad? 5 seconds of being faster with an antistun is pretty balanced. It's not significantly raising ANY attack or channeling, it's not defuffing, it's not stunning or sealing opponents. What if we got that kinda perk? Hell, what if us mages got Sacrificial Strike or something that doubled our damage for a bit of our low hp pool? Most psychics would slaughter us. What is it had a chance to take away the channelling of a spell when we used one? See what I'm getting at? You guise are complaining about mages getting our kites back on. Because you can't just keep stunning us while we take your damage relentlessly, unable to escape. This doesn't make us god-like, we still gotta take your hits to get the perk.

Agreed 100% with this post. However some people just dont understand, and they think that because caster's are weak compared to a mele class they should be an easy kill. Ie. cant stun lock and aps to death their target.

However i feel it's more to do with people unsure of how to counter the proc than the proc itself. So they feel the need to QQ about it. Further, this proc has perhaps highlighted issues with other class's idk. That is just my observation.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Agreed 100% with this post. However some people just dont understand, and they think that because caster's are weak compared to a mele class they should be an easy kill. Ie. cant stun lock and aps to death their target.

However i feel it's more to do with people unsure of how to counter the proc than the proc itself. So they feel the need to QQ about it. Further, this proc has perhaps highlighted issues with other class's idk. That is just my observation.

Nobody's saying that. One of the main reasons we argue against it is because at this point in time Casters are anything but weak. A proper genie with proper gear makes them hard to lock down even without Purify Spell, it's simply not needed. A Caster can escape locks without it. Go tell me how a melee trying to kill a Caster without GoF works out though.

Slewdem - Dreamweaver

It's understandable that you being a caster would feel that.. But i dnt understand why just don't admit even with Gof casters crit still some what hits way harder than a zerk crit.. and chances of zerk crits is pretty low..

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

BlackRapture - Raging Tide wrote: »

xD Wow, so mages finally get a weapon perk and everyone goes nuts? The idea of it is simple- to counter the stunlocks and kite opponents.like they're supposed to. Is that so bad? 5 seconds of being faster with an antistun is pretty balanced. It's not significantly raising ANY attack or channeling, it's not defuffing, it's not stunning or sealing opponents. What if we got that kinda perk? Hell, what if us mages got Sacrificial Strike or something that doubled our damage for a bit of our low hp pool? Most psychics would slaughter us. What is it had a chance to take away the channelling of a spell when we used one? See what I'm getting at? You guise are complaining about mages getting our kites back on. Because you can't just keep stunning us while we take your damage relentlessly, unable to escape. This doesn't make us god-like, we still gotta take your hits to get the perk.

If it takes a caster 10 hits to kill a melee in equal gear, I think it stands to reason that melees should be able to do the same if in the same gear and the melee attacks the caster, if not slightly surpass that number of hits to kill a caster once they get near. (casters have a damage + element of surprise on their side, melee's do not really have either, all they arguably have is hp.... HAH.. what a joke when casters still hit so hard, and its far easier for you all to attack and remain safe from multiple attacks pretty much EVERY single time you attack. xD)

I must admit I do not know if that is the case in EQUAL gear fights, but still I am sure there are videos that do not coincide with that belief at all, which I find to be quite sad, I know for bms it has already been said without gof a well geared caster can easily survive the hits of a en endgame bm, which in my honest opinion is a further testament that the purify proc isn't needed at all to face a bm, and ergo it is far from balanced to them.