Remove Purify Proc: Y/N. We had it coming!

Master_Ghoul - Lost City

a class that can can anybody with a nasty glare

darknessofmy

Barb already OP

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

HrunsPanda - Archosaur wrote: »

b:laugh Oh yeah ! and im gonna have so much fun when everyone is QQing about my OPness b:pleased

you better not show everybody your OPness in public

HrunsPanda - Archosaur

SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »

you better not show everybody your OPness in public

not underaged girls no.

Crazybladema - Harshlands

Ahira - Lost City wrote: »

I'm a caster and i'm not really a fan of purify spell, just for the fact that it takes skill out of the game. I honestly felt I did just fine prior to purify! b:chuckle

Aps was getting a bit out of hand but instead of a reasonable cap (which would have upset half the community), they gave us purify (which did upset half the community).

Anyway I doubt it will be removed but i'm sure there shall a game breaking counter to it in the pipeline so dont worry too much.

I dont think it makes too much difference in 1v1 in any case (gof lucky kills vs purify lucky escapesb:question), but in group and nw you can see it now becoming less of an issue as squads are alot more aware on how to counter it.

Think autopot should be removed for sure tho- thats just too OP! b:angry

This ^

If it was only made to counter aps. Why do people argue with a modified version of purify thats only counters aps? which has 3 changes

1. Remove speed buff

2. Increase proc rate 8% - 16%

3. make it work only on auto attacks

seems legit enough to solve any aps problems a caster may have. However, someone will argue that melles have been having the upper hand and bms were owning casters. That somehow genies, appoc and personal skill is not enough to save them.

Sounds like a bunch of inexperienced players who cant win without some advantage.

Its just lol b:laugh

I dont even really care either. I dont even play, just love seeing how the games going though. Which seems to be pretty bad.

Flamespirit - Dreamweaver

It's a non issue as more time goes on and more people gear up. As the above poster noted, purify is less and less of an issue as people learn how to deal with it and as the general population gets stronger.

In nw it seems to help me very little as I seem to always get focus fire killed by squads of top tw player faction members (including my own)

Mingkeey - Lost City

whens 2x drops?

marvinhuddleston

Hopefully 2x will be on for the Memorial Day weekend .

AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver

Crazybladema - Harshlands wrote: »

This ^

If it was only made to counter aps. Why do people argue with a modified version of purify thats only counters aps? which has 3 changes

1. Remove speed buff

2. Increase proc rate 8% - 16%

3. make it work only on auto attacks

seems legit enough to solve any aps problems a caster may have. However, someone will argue that melles have been having the upper hand and bms were owning casters. That somehow genies, appoc and personal skill is not enough to save them.

Sounds like a bunch of inexperienced players who cant win without some advantage.

Its just lol b:laugh


I dont even really care either. I dont even play, just love seeing how the games going though. Which seems to be pretty bad.

So we can completely ignore your posts in this thread then. Seeing as you dont play anymore. b:bye

Aeliah - Dreamweaver

I played for 6 months with a purify r8 weapon. Proc rate is roughly 1/2 that of r9rr. I was utterly amazed at how easy it was to get a purify with r9rr. The solution is so simple: just change r9rr proc rate to that of r8. Nothing else needs to be done, imo. Its the easiest solution to sell to the gms, and it would fix a lot of ppls complaints once they see how it plays out in practice. I fought many ppl back with my r8 weapon and few people complained its proc rate was OP then.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I played for 6 months with a purify r8 weapon. Proc rate is roughly 1/2 that of r9rr. I was utterly amazed at how easy it was to get a purify with r9rr. The solution is so simple: just change r9rr proc rate to that of r8. Nothing else needs to be done, imo. Its the easiest solution to sell to the gms, and it would fix a lot of ppls complaints once they see how it plays out in practice. I fought many ppl back with my r8 weapon and few people complained its proc rate was OP then.

....So, do you agree that something is wrong with Purify Spell as it currently is at the moment? All we need is a yes or no.

AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

....So, do you agree that something is wrong with Purify Spell as it currently is at the moment? All we need is a yes or no.

Zan even if Aeliah agrees. That the may or may not be an issue with puri as it is. Is meaningless fact remains we (magic users) have puri and YOU need to get over it.

Aeliah - Dreamweaver

Yes and no. Don't try to simplify it too much lol.

No, nothing wrong with proc.

Yes, the proc rate is too high.



I like how the proc works, but I don't think it needs to proc as frequently as it does. I've been that one person in a 1vs20, and that is clearly OP... though it happens much less frequently now, people know how to kill purify users more efficiently, aka, wait for the veno.

Really its a bit boring winning all my fights, so changing proc rate to same as r8 would suitable.

(To reiterate, that means changing proc rate from about 15% to 7.5%, these being the numbers my tests showed.)

Strategies learned by both purify users and those fighting the users would remain same, easy adjustment to make, just that less reliance on the proc and bit more caution would be needed for the purify users. Given that I have faith in my skill, I would adjust to such a change just fine; I think most people would given time.

Still, not going to hold my breath for any sort of change just adapt to the flow of things. I always have, and its worked pretty well for me so far. If you directed a fraction of your energy from forum writing into fighting, you'd be nigh unstoppable, yes? I like a challenge after all, you probably do as well, so don't complain too hard, you might just get what you asked for, and maybe that shouldn't be what you want.

Cheers,

Aeliah

AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver

All im saying is, wait till the new veno and barb updates come through. Then we'll see if it needs a change or not lol

Adroit - Lost City

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

(To reiterate, that means changing proc rate from about 15% to 7.5%, these being the numbers my tests showed.)

How did you test these (basically just how many trials did you do)? I haven't heard anyone suggest the proc rate is so high for r9rr, and it certainly doesn't feel like it is that high to me.

_dblazen_ - Dreamweaver

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

How did you test these (basically just how many trials did you do)? I haven't heard anyone suggest the proc rate is so high for r9rr, and it certainly doesn't feel like it is that high to me.

He tested it with his sin and cleric mostly as far as I remember. Where he did x amount of hits on R8r and the same amount on R9rr. Correct me if i'm wrong.

What I kinda question is why would PWE push out 2 proc's with the same name, while every other proc has 2 versions of which 1 is lower in proc rate (like sacrificial and GoF, spirit blackhole and soul shatter, blood vengeance and w/e the other one was)?

Laziness? Or is testing the proc just moot because you can never get exact numbers?

I've had horrible luck against R9rr purify proc where it would proc a ton of times even if I wasn't using APS and was just using skills.

There aren't a lot of R8r purify spell users running around, or i've just never encountered a lot of them.

I only know of 2 or 3 on the server so far b:surrender

sweedishfish

sumthing does need to be changed with it, atm there is 0 downside to the skill.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Zan even if Aeliah agrees. That the may or may not be an issue with puri as it is. Is meaningless fact remains we (magic users) have puri and YOU need to get over it.

So, first no end game people even slightly agree with me... Then if one does it doesn't matter? Interesting. Interesting indeed.

AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

So, first no end game people even slightly agree with me... Then if one does it doesn't matter? Interesting. Interesting indeed.

Zan read what i said. Dev's wont listen to one undergeared bm and one player with R9rr. And make massive changes to end game gear. As the same R9rr player said you need to adaopt as you have been told over and over and over. Yet you still cry like a little girl. Even though you have stated you can beat R9rr wizz with better gear than you 5/6 times. You my friend are a joke.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

wiki wrote:

Overpowered [edit]
Overpowered (often abbreviated to OP) is a common term referring to a perceived lack of game balance. It is often used when describing a specific class in an RPG, a specific faction in strategic games, or a specific tactic, ability, weapon or unit in various games. For something to be deemed overpowered, it is either the best choice in a disproportionate number of situations (marginalising other choices) and/or excessively hard to counter by the opponent compared to the effort required to use it.

^ Very easy to argue that this is exactly what the purify proc does, it's hard to counter, not impossible, but still hard nonetheless, way harder then what it may take for this proc to activate, (I do realize casters disagree, which is quite reasonable/to be expected, but still, it gives and gives, and its easier for it to activate in specific scenarios) and save the opedness of r93r casters.

Again I say this, just because something has several ways to counter, it does NOT mean it's balanced. (see the silly analogy, it ties in with this very proc/statement.)

Aeliah - Dreamweaver

No dblazen, its not 'encountered so far', its 'encountered anymore'. Just imagine that the few people who had r8r back in the day almost certainly have r9rr now. Even I ditched my old r8r purify, it has infinite now... though the proc rate is too low to be useful lol. Feels like 5%, tests like 5%... anyways yeah.

Adroit I tested maybe with thousand hits, in reps of 100. I can almost certainly verify that r8r is about 7 to 8%, but r9rr could use more testing. Naturally are free to go test r9rr whenever you like. What you have to remember when testing, is, look for the actual graphic animation of getting a purify. As you no doubt know, you can get procs within an old proc, which leaves you with a speed buff but no anti-stun, and so simply looking at the buffs on you is not good enough. Gotta use somebody with a slow attack rate to accurately measure. And, when I did measure back when I first got r9rr, it seemed to be around 14 to 15%... course it may have changed without my knowledge but doesn't feel like it. Feel free to test.

So, yeah, whether it stays like is or changed proc rate, I'd be fine either way. If they actually changed the mechanic of how purify works that'd be a pain for the devs and also harder for everybody to adapt to I think. Changing proc rate is the easiest fix by far, if fix you must have.

Cheers,

Aeliah

Adroit - Lost City

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

No dblazen, its not 'encountered so far', its 'encountered anymore'. Just imagine that the few people who had r8r back in the day almost certainly have r9rr now. Even I ditched my old r8r purify, it has infinite now... though the proc rate is too low to be useful lol. Feels like 5%, tests like 5%... anyways yeah.

Adroit I tested maybe with thousand hits, in reps of 100. I can almost certainly verify that r8r is about 7 to 8%, but r9rr could use more testing. Naturally are free to go test r9rr whenever you like. What you have to remember when testing, is, look for the actual graphic animation of getting a purify. As you no doubt know, you can get procs within an old proc, which leaves you with a speed buff but no anti-stun, and so simply looking at the buffs on you is not good enough. Gotta use somebody with a slow attack rate to accurately measure. And, when I did measure back when I first got r9rr, it seemed to be around 14 to 15%... course it may have changed without my knowledge but doesn't feel like it. Feel free to test.

So, yeah, whether it stays like is or changed proc rate, I'd be fine either way. If they actually changed the mechanic of how purify works that'd be a pain for the devs and also harder for everybody to adapt to I think. Changing proc rate is the easiest fix by far, if fix you must have.

Cheers,

Aeliah

Yeah I plan on doing some tests, numbers are all over the place and I'm kinda curious. Purify makes a sound when it goes off, so would have to really not be paying attention to miss a proc. I'll probably make a new thread with my results when I'm done testing :P

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

I so found this thread to be quite relevant to this one, albeit it all pretty much stated what this thread has over and over, it brings up many points that I myself, and others have brought up. (i didn't even know it was in there.)

_dblazen_ - Dreamweaver

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

No dblazen, its not 'encountered so far', its 'encountered anymore'. Just imagine that the few people who had r8r back in the day almost certainly have r9rr now. Even I ditched my old r8r purify, it has infinite now... though the proc rate is too low to be useful lol. Feels like 5%, tests like 5%... anyways yeah.

Just because you ditched it doesn't mean not more people are getting it, because more people are getting R8r weapons as of late, maybe due to boredom maybe for the procs, but there are more coming than you realize.
They are getting it because they can get it a lot easier now.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

^ Very easy to argue that this is exactly what the purify proc does, it's hard to counter, not impossible, but still hard nonetheless, way harder then what it may take for this proc to activate, (I do realize casters disagree, which is quite reasonable/to be expected, but still, it gives and gives, and its easier for it to activate in specific scenarios) and save the opedness of r93r casters.

Again I say this, just because something has several ways to counter, it does NOT mean it's balanced. (see the silly analogy, it ties in with this very proc/statement.)

on the other hand, the game is not just a battle. a large part of time is devoted to prepare for that battle (aka gear up) for which purify's impact is low, especially compared with int.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

on the other hand, the game is not just a battle. a large part of time is devoted to prepare for that battle (aka gear up) for which purify's impact is low, especially compared with int.

I am going to do my best not to be rude, but my comment(s) may come across as a bit abrupt/snide, if that is the case, then I do indeed apologize but still, think about it.

The 'card' game, as in any trading card game, you first have to get the cards, then you have to build strategies to combat each card/the best way to use your cards, in this case, it is a lot like "preparing/gearing up." You can't throw in any 40 (the amount needed per 'legal' deck), and expect to be competitive against more experienced players.)

Still with the right strategy/a bit of luck you could beat someone who has spent a lot of money on the game, which used to arguably be the case with this game, but with the purify proc... a lot of people are rightfully questioning if this proc breaks the balance as a whole. (yes it has ways to be stopped, but as I pointed out, and will point out again, just because something has a weakness, it does not mean that it is balanced.)

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Yes and no. Don't try to simplify it too much lol.

No, nothing wrong with proc.

Yes, the proc rate is too high.



I like how the proc works, but I don't think it needs to proc as frequently as it does. I've been that one person in a 1vs20, and that is clearly OP... though it happens much less frequently now, people know how to kill purify users more efficiently, aka, wait for the veno.

Really its a bit boring winning all my fights, so changing proc rate to same as r8 would suitable.

(To reiterate, that means changing proc rate from about 15% to 7.5%, these being the numbers my tests showed.)

Strategies learned by both purify users and those fighting the users would remain same, easy adjustment to make, just that less reliance on the proc and bit more caution would be needed for the purify users. Given that I have faith in my skill, I would adjust to such a change just fine; I think most people would given time.

Still, not going to hold my breath for any sort of change just adapt to the flow of things. I always have, and its worked pretty well for me so far. If you directed a fraction of your energy from forum writing into fighting, you'd be nigh unstoppable, yes? I like a challenge after all, you probably do as well, so don't complain too hard, you might just get what you asked for, and maybe that shouldn't be what you want.

Cheers,

Aeliah

I can almost agree with this post

Red because its sad but probably true

I still dislike the playstyle purify forces on the game.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

So, first no end game people even slightly agree with me... Then if one does it doesn't matter? Interesting. Interesting indeed.

Pm me on forums and I'll give you a reason pwi has no endgame bm's atm and a prezzy.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Zan read what i said. Dev's wont listen to one undergeared bm and one player with R9rr. And make massive changes to end game gear. As the same R9rr player said you need to adaopt as you have been told over and over and over. Yet you still cry like a little girl. Even though you have stated you can beat R9rr wizz with better gear than you 5/6 times. You my friend are a joke.

I'm not the only one that finds issue with Purify Spell. Putting a cooldown or even reducing the proc rate is far from a massive change. I've adapted, others have adapted, that doesn't make it any less broken. We all adapted to sins when they were at their peak, yet we still knew they were broken. It's the same thing here, just because you're able to beat it does not make it any less broken due to the sheer effort it takes to get past luck. Aint nobody cryin' bro.

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

Pm me on forums and I'll give you a reason pwi has no endgame bm's atm and a prezzy.

I'll pm you boo.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I am going to do my best not to be rude, but my comment(s) may come across as a bit abrupt/snide, if that is the case, then I do indeed apologize but still, think about it.

The 'card' game, as in any trading card game, you first have to get the cards, then you have to build strategies to combat each card/the best way to use your cards, in this case, it is a lot like "preparing/gearing up." You can't throw in any 40 (the amount needed per 'legal' deck), and expect to be competitive against more experienced players.)

Still with the right strategy/a bit of luck you could beat someone who has spent a lot of money on the game, which used to arguably be the case with this game, but with the purify proc... a lot of people are rightfully questioning if this proc breaks the balance as a whole. (yes it has ways to be stopped, but as I pointed out, and will point out again, just because something has a weakness, it does not mean that it is balanced.)

hehe, no rude at all, feel free to be more harsh XD

Basically my point of view is based on coin earning. Feel free to call me greedy hehe. But in a game where coin = power I think that coin making is important. So far, I have not seen any evidence that puri casters make way more (=orders of magnitude more) supply tokens than the rest, equally geared people. In fact, I don't think that they get a ton more tokens than less geared people (not really talking about tt90, though, something like g16). PVE-wise, in what farming is left, they hardly have an advantage; even today, a cookie cutter sin could make more/faster. So, while the battle advantage might be huge, they don't get the 5aps coin gain advantage (and pve opness; sure a r9rr+12 caster can tank WS but what's the point if it's painfully slow?). So, in the big picture, it's not that OP, compared to the int craze.

Of course, that's a certain view, (someone's that's not focused on pvp/merching only?) and naturally I do am a bit biased. For the record, I do think that all speed boosts should be removed when you are carrying a flag.