Remove Purify Proc: Y/N. We had it coming!

Zanryu - Dreamweaver · May 2013

Darren_Kris - Morai wrote: »

the discussions given by the ''intelligent'' ppl all involve lesser geared ppl or things like ''you can genie/apo out of stun bla blah'', debuffs dont matter, arcanes zoom around at warp speed, more enemies help the caster etc.
you wonder why arcanes dont argue. can you share those casters who see PS is ''broken''?

A few of them do, however those comparisons were of two equal geared people (melee and arcane) put in a situation against multiple lesser geared people. The Arcanes come out on top. That's not comparing either melee or arcane to lesser geared people, but comparing same geared melee and arcane in a certain situation.

So... what, Arcanes can't get out of stunlocks with genie+apo? A stunlock is hard enough to pull off, performing one in such a way that the target is locked down even with genie/apo is difficult and should be rewarded with a kill in my opinion. It takes skill, and only skill should beat skill at equal gear. Purify Spell allows locks to be broken and dangerous debuffs to be removed for free. Tell me, why should casters be allowed to remove debuffs, break a stunlock, and gain full immunity to movement debuffs along with max speed all in one go? How is that balanced at all?

I can't be bothered looking through over 150 pages for a few names.

Joshcja - Sanctuary · May 2013

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

@Joshcja - Still pulling numbers out of thin-air I see (20-30% variance and random ratios lol). I stopped taking the post seriously after you stated what you neglected (lol @ neglecting everything that allows you to kill an opponent). I'd wager if you made an end game build of a bm (you know.. emperor tome, nw cape, nw r9 ring, josds, etc) and did the same calculations in reverse where the wiz is attacking the bm.. but neglected all debuffs, used base magic attack as if that was skill damage, even assuming the bm never tried to use any CC etc.. you would find that the wiizard would have a 0% chance at killing the bm with every hit critting. How could you even think these numbers had any merit whatsoever?

Or you could actually try reading the post and find out that "gasp" absolutely nothing was pulled from thin air or random. Moreover you'll find out just how bloody stupid your post here is.

Go actually try maintaining an attention span of more than 5 seconds and read the whole post. I'll get that wiz comparison to you about the same time you finish

Zanryu - Dreamweaver · May 2013

Man, Wizards are so gosh darn defenseless. They can't kill anyone or do anything to stop a stunlock, gotta have Purify Spell to be even remotely useful!

>mfw I fought a Wizard and they kept me perma-undined when they wanted to attack
>mfw they could kite like a mo even without PS because of genie skills
>mfw Ice Prison
>mfw 6k EP'd non crits through Marrow
>mfw Spatial Reversion
>mfw air kiting
>mfw Distance Shink after Badge + Force of Will when close
>mfw Hailstorm procs
>mfw Fortify + Essential Sutra or just Fortify

I had a fight with a Wizard the other day. She's actually one of the better skilled Wizards, the only one with around my tier of gear worth fighting in my opinion (full +10 gear, 2nd cast helm/cape). She's always had skill, enough that I couldn't compensate for gear difference when she was third cast and I wasn't. Already know I'm gonna catch **** from Adroit but whatever, point is Wizards can break locks. Any Arcane can break them. They can then proceed to counter attack. I'm using her as an example because she's skilled and has decent gear, I could use Gareno but he wasn't exactly good.

I beat her in 5/6 fights, she won the first one 'cause I wasn't used to not being autopotted, got wombo combo'd 'cause I couldn't Drake Bash from lack of chi. After that we had some really awesome fights with her kiting around all over the place, breaking my stuns pretty nicely and keeping good distance. Purify Spell screwed up my locks quite a bit as well. There wasn't any point in the fights we had where Purify Spell was needed for her to do anything. Not a single point in any of our fights.

People still thinking it's needed are just grasping at straws at this point when they list reasons why it is. "durr u no know wut am nid cuz u nawt end gaem" "hurr u no know cuz u stupid we nid it cuz stunz". Just.. no. Seriously.

bitewarrior · May 2013

Now ! remove the bias post made by those who has it and both and count the results. you got a pretty good idea something is wrong. Althought i can see the cleric keep it.

Adroit - Lost City · May 2013

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Man, Wizards are so gosh darn defenseless. They can't kill anyone or do anything to stop a stunlock, gotta have Purify Spell to be even remotely useful!

>mfw I fought a Wizard and they kept me perma-undined when they wanted to attack
>mfw they could kite like a mo even without PS because of genie skills
>mfw Ice Prison
>mfw 6k EP'd non crits through Marrow
>mfw Spatial Reversion
>mfw air kiting
>mfw Distance Shink after Badge + Force of Will when close
>mfw Hailstorm procs
>mfw Fortify + Essential Sutra or just Fortify

I had a fight with a Wizard the other day. She's actually one of the better skilled Wizards, the only one with around my tier of gear worth fighting in my opinion (full +10 gear, 2nd cast helm/cape). She's always had skill, enough that I couldn't compensate for gear difference when she was third cast and I wasn't. Already know I'm gonna catch **** from Adroit but whatever, point is Wizards can break locks. Any Arcane can break them. They can then proceed to counter attack. I'm using her as an example because she's skilled and has decent gear, I could use Gareno but he wasn't exactly good.

I beat her in 5/6 fights, she won the first one 'cause I wasn't used to not being autopotted, got wombo combo'd 'cause I couldn't Drake Bash from lack of chi. After that we had some really awesome fights with her kiting around all over the place, breaking my stuns pretty nicely and keeping good distance. Purify Spell screwed up my locks quite a bit as well. There wasn't any point in the fights we had where Purify Spell was needed for her to do anything. Not a single point in any of our fights.

People still thinking it's needed are just grasping at straws at this point when they list reasons why it is. "durr u no know wut am nid cuz u nawt end gaem" "hurr u no know cuz u stupid we nid it cuz stunz". Just.. no. Seriously.

So let me get this straight. You are arguing that purify is OP by giving a story where you killed a purify user 5/6 times.. and this purify user outgeared you? /Zanlogic

Zanryu - Dreamweaver · May 2013

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

So let me get this straight. You are arguing that purify is OP by giving a story where you killed a purify user 5/6 times.. and this purify user outgeared you? /Zanlogic

You seem to have missed the part where during the fights I had to exhaust stupid amounts of chi, there were several times where I completely ran out. I had to spam Mdef charms like a madman, and save skills for an exact right moment. All while hoping Purify Spell didn't go off, which it did. Once it went off every single one of my tactics became useless and I had to start essentially from scratch but with less chi.

Where I had to be extremely careful she did not, she simply had to kite and spam Windshield to survive me in most cases. She had a plethora of skills to combat anything I could throw at her, Ice Prison when I got close then was free to DD me. Distance Shrink>FoW when I get close. Fortify and Badge to resist my locks. The point here is that even without Purify Spell it was extremely difficult for me to get in close, and even when I could and her options were exhausted (and they never were) I had to pray the weapon wouldn't proc, and hope for zerks, crits and that I could get them all in my stun session so I could Reckless Rush before she got away. Notice how the main one (DS and FoW) are far less costly than my lock combo, especially including my need of leaps to get close.

We already know it's not super OP in 1v1, we stopped arguing 1v1 ages ago. This is an example from the perspective of someone fighting a competent player with Purify Spell. Even in a non-group environment it has a massive and unneeded impact on the fight. That's the point here. Had I not had Mdef charms, had I not been able to keep my marrow up, had I slipped up even a little it could very easily have been the end of me in those fights. I had to play very carefully to combat her combos, let alone pull out a win.

The fact that I won isn't a testament to Purify Spell being balanced, but rather to my skill at my class and knowing when to use skills and when to get out of the way, and believe me I had to get out of the way a lot. I spent a good amount of time keeping my distance in some of those fights. 6k non crits with EP, 4k hits without it. 4k. I'm a three shot. At 18k HP (full +10 with 3rd cast helm/cape) that's still a large chunk of HP. At equal gear she could still combo me hard and pull off a win. All while having Purify Spell to bail her out of stuns/debuffs.

Yup. That's not unbalanced at all. Being able to **** up a melee at close range, break locks and get 30 meters away instantly, and keep them at a distance by freezing or slowing them down only to resist a stun as soon as they're close, leap away, and repeat once again. Totally balanced. Completely. No reason you shouldn't have Purify Spell because that's not enough on its own. Nope.

Dat sarcasm.

Seriously. It takes a stupid amount of effort to actually catch her. Purify Spell is just plain not needed in that situation. Just like it's not needed in group. Infinite would be a much better idea, or at least some kind of cooldown or nerf to Purify Spell.

Onatop - Lost City · May 2013

As much as I agree with ya.. U might as well accept that purify ain't going away. We would have heard about it by now if in happened in China.

BungaSakura - Raging Tide · May 2013

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You seem to have missed the part where during the fights I had to exhaust stupid amounts of chi, there were several times where I completely ran out. I had to spam Mdef charms like a madman, and save skills for an exact right moment. All while hoping Purify Spell didn't go off, which it did. Once it went off every single one of my tactics became useless and I had to start essentially from scratch but with less chi.

Where I had to be extremely careful she did not, she simply had to kite and spam Windshield to survive me in most cases. She had a plethora of skills to combat anything I could throw at her, Ice Prison when I got close then was free to DD me. Distance Shrink>FoW when I get close. Fortify and Badge to resist my locks. The point here is that even without Purify Spell it was extremely difficult for me to get in close, and even when I could and her options were exhausted (and they never were) I had to pray the weapon wouldn't proc, and hope for zerks, crits and that I could get them all in my stun session so I could Reckless Rush before she got away. Notice how the main one (DS and FoW) are far less costly than my lock combo, especially including my need of leaps to get close.

We already know it's not super OP in 1v1, we stopped arguing 1v1 ages ago. This is an example from the perspective of someone fighting a competent player with Purify Spell. Even in a non-group environment it has a massive and unneeded impact on the fight. That's the point here. Had I not had Mdef charms, had I not been able to keep my marrow up, had I slipped up even a little it could very easily have been the end of me in those fights. I had to play very carefully to combat her combos, let alone pull out a win.

The fact that I won isn't a testament to Purify Spell being balanced, but rather to my skill at my class and knowing when to use skills and when to get out of the way, and believe me I had to get out of the way a lot. I spent a good amount of time keeping my distance in some of those fights. 6k non crits with EP, 4k hits without it. 4k. I'm a three shot. At 18k HP (full +10 with 3rd cast helm/cape) that's still a large chunk of HP. At equal gear she could still combo me hard and pull off a win. All while having Purify Spell to bail her out of stuns/debuffs.

Yup. That's not unbalanced at all. Being able to **** up a melee at close range, break locks and get 30 meters away instantly, and keep them at a distance by freezing or slowing them down only to resist a stun as soon as they're close, leap away, and repeat once again. Totally balanced. Completely. No reason you shouldn't have Purify Spell because that's not enough on its own. Nope.

Dat sarcasm.

Seriously. It takes a stupid amount of effort to actually catch her. Purify Spell is just plain not needed in that situation. Just like it's not needed in group. Infinite would be a much better idea, or at least some kind of cooldown or nerf to Purify Spell.

So u were saying that u still can beat her no matter how hard to catch it. and u still saying that its really OP? sh...

AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver · May 2013

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You seem to have missed the part where during the fights I had to exhaust stupid amounts of chi, there were several times where I completely ran out. I had to spam Mdef charms like a madman, and save skills for an exact right moment. All while hoping Purify Spell didn't go off, which it did. Once it went off every single one of my tactics became useless and I had to start essentially from scratch but with less chi.

Where I had to be extremely careful she did not, she simply had to kite and spam Windshield to survive me in most cases. She had a plethora of skills to combat anything I could throw at her, Ice Prison when I got close then was free to DD me. Distance Shrink>FoW when I get close. Fortify and Badge to resist my locks. The point here is that even without Purify Spell it was extremely difficult for me to get in close, and even when I could and her options were exhausted (and they never were) I had to pray the weapon wouldn't proc, and hope for zerks, crits and that I could get them all in my stun session so I could Reckless Rush before she got away. Notice how the main one (DS and FoW) are far less costly than my lock combo, especially including my need of leaps to get close.

We already know it's not super OP in 1v1, we stopped arguing 1v1 ages ago. This is an example from the perspective of someone fighting a competent player with Purify Spell. Even in a non-group environment it has a massive and unneeded impact on the fight. That's the point here. Had I not had Mdef charms, had I not been able to keep my marrow up, had I slipped up even a little it could very easily have been the end of me in those fights. I had to play very carefully to combat her combos, let alone pull out a win.

The fact that I won isn't a testament to Purify Spell being balanced, but rather to my skill at my class and knowing when to use skills and when to get out of the way, and believe me I had to get out of the way a lot. I spent a good amount of time keeping my distance in some of those fights. 6k non crits with EP, 4k hits without it. 4k. I'm a three shot. At 18k HP (full +10 with 3rd cast helm/cape) that's still a large chunk of HP. At equal gear she could still combo me hard and pull off a win. All while having Purify Spell to bail her out of stuns/debuffs.

Yup. That's not unbalanced at all. Being able to **** up a melee at close range, break locks and get 30 meters away instantly, and keep them at a distance by freezing or slowing them down only to resist a stun as soon as they're close, leap away, and repeat once again. Totally balanced. Completely. No reason you shouldn't have Purify Spell because that's not enough on its own. Nope.

Dat sarcasm.

Seriously. It takes a stupid amount of effort to actually catch her. Purify Spell is just plain not needed in that situation. Just like it's not needed in group. Infinite would be a much better idea, or at least some kind of cooldown or nerf to Purify Spell.

LMFAO. Zan your just being a moron now. Why is it you mele classes think a magic user should just stand there to be killed??? You metal mate. ROTFLMFAO.

AWW. QQQQQ stop kiting i cant kill you when you run away b:cryb:cryb:cry

You beat a puri user that's better geared than you 5/6 times. To your credit. And yet you still want puri removed??? Why? So you can win every fight? >.>

Joshcja - Sanctuary · May 2013

http://pwcalc.com/6ec2f777b728f19c wiz (will be using jones for this post)
http://pwcalc.com/91eff75816f9bd5f bm (will be using a JOSD+ omaley version for this post, change the shards yourself I'm bloody lazy)

Wiz will try to kill bm following the same general rules as last time

Ok after changing shards around BM Def = 76% mag res after undine 117 def level 23997 hp Wiz Attack = 27251 average + 2.5k

(27251+2500)(1.18)(.25)(.24) = 2107

Due to range and poke damage + the carry over from last time (no autopot no def charm) We will be using straight hp this time around.

23997/2107(1.21)(1.25) = 7 hits to kill

At -32% chan (with a mag ring) adroit could cast 6 poke spells in 10 seconds requiring 1 extra crit to kill (14% chance)

Things to consider:

Spark is a low "cost" debuff as it forces the opponent to spend far more than you to live
BM is a calc with 100% perfect rolls.
The wiz hitting the bm does not give the bm a 6 second holy path + antistun
The wiz does not need to spend 35 chi to a spark in order to damage the bm.

So in a matchup where with autopot and def charms neither class can actually kill the other without debuffs the class that already has better chi conservation (even as a demon) gets a 21% chance to save geni/apoc for more sutra/spark

Seems legit

Zanryu - Dreamweaver · May 2013

Ah, prime examples of the Caster side's lack of logic.

BungaSakura - Raging Tide wrote: »

So u were saying that u still can beat her no matter how hard to catch it. and u still saying that its really OP? sh...

So because people could beat sins back in the day that means they weren't overpowered? Overpowered means taking little to no skill to use while being extremely effective and hard to counter. Purify Spell falls into that category requiring no skill and having only two actual (short) counters.

AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver wrote: »

LMFAO. Zan your just being a moron now. Why is it you mele classes think a magic user should just stand there to be killed??? You metal mate. ROTFLMFAO.

AWW. QQQQQ stop kiting i cant kill you when you run away b:cryb:cryb:cry

You beat a puri user that's better geared than you 5/6 times. To your credit. And yet you still want puri removed??? Why? So you can win every fight? >.>

When did I say Casters should sit still? I made the point that they already have good mobility options, especially Wizards. Her kiting me, sealing me as I get close, and using Fortify/Badge + Distance Shrink properly (note that I said PROPERLY) gave her a very good advantage in keeping her distance, all while being able to blast me with skills. While keeping me under a constant Mdef debuff. While keeping me slowed/frozen.

Then, as I finally do catch up either being bailed out by Purify Spell, or negating my lock with Fortify/Badge+Leap. Spending all of 75 genie energy and what.. 10 chi? Against the minimum of 35 chi and up to over 1 spark I have to use to lock? Yeah, okay bro. Nice logic. Give people that already have a lot of kiting and stunbreaking options something that'll do it for free and waste valuable chi on the opposite side for zero cost.

Adroit - Lost City · May 2013

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You seem to have missed the part where during the fights I had to exhaust stupid amounts of chi, there were several times where I completely ran out. I had to spam Mdef charms like a madman, and save skills for an exact right moment. All while hoping Purify Spell didn't go off, which it did. Once it went off every single one of my tactics became useless and I had to start essentially from scratch but with less chi.

Where I had to be extremely careful she did not, she simply had to kite and spam Windshield to survive me in most cases. She had a plethora of skills to combat anything I could throw at her, Ice Prison when I got close then was free to DD me. Distance Shrink>FoW when I get close. Fortify and Badge to resist my locks. The point here is that even without Purify Spell it was extremely difficult for me to get in close, and even when I could and her options were exhausted (and they never were) I had to pray the weapon wouldn't proc, and hope for zerks, crits and that I could get them all in my stun session so I could Reckless Rush before she got away. Notice how the main one (DS and FoW) are far less costly than my lock combo, especially including my need of leaps to get close.

We already know it's not super OP in 1v1, we stopped arguing 1v1 ages ago. This is an example from the perspective of someone fighting a competent player with Purify Spell. Even in a non-group environment it has a massive and unneeded impact on the fight. That's the point here. Had I not had Mdef charms, had I not been able to keep my marrow up, had I slipped up even a little it could very easily have been the end of me in those fights. I had to play very carefully to combat her combos, let alone pull out a win.

The fact that I won isn't a testament to Purify Spell being balanced, but rather to my skill at my class and knowing when to use skills and when to get out of the way, and believe me I had to get out of the way a lot. I spent a good amount of time keeping my distance in some of those fights. 6k non crits with EP, 4k hits without it. 4k. I'm a three shot. At 18k HP (full +10 with 3rd cast helm/cape) that's still a large chunk of HP. At equal gear she could still combo me hard and pull off a win. All while having Purify Spell to bail her out of stuns/debuffs.

Yup. That's not unbalanced at all. Being able to **** up a melee at close range, break locks and get 30 meters away instantly, and keep them at a distance by freezing or slowing them down only to resist a stun as soon as they're close, leap away, and repeat once again. Totally balanced. Completely. No reason you shouldn't have Purify Spell because that's not enough on its own. Nope.

Dat sarcasm.

Seriously. It takes a stupid amount of effort to actually catch her. Purify Spell is just plain not needed in that situation. Just like it's not needed in group. Infinite would be a much better idea, or at least some kind of cooldown or nerf to Purify Spell.

A few things are not adding up in your story. You say she is competent and a better skill wizard, but she can only kill a 3 shot bm 16% of the time (maybe our definition of competent is different)? You also mention that with EP she deals 6ks non crit, and without it she deals 4k.. I was fairly sure extreme poison was a 20% amp, not 50% (/inb4 learning from Joshcja and making up numbers).

Anyway, to summarize your post, despite being able to kill an equivalently geared char that you consider competent over 80% of the time.. you think it should be even easier. Sounds legit, you are definitely not whining for easy mode.. you certainly have balance as your top concern. You've kinda lost either way, if you stick to your story about her being competent.. then you've given a situation that proc is not only necessary, but probably underpowered in some circumstances.. and if you say that she's a noob on the other hand, you would have contradicted yourself and I'd have caught you in another less than truthful statement. You make this way too easy.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver · May 2013

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

A few things are not adding up in your story. You say she is competent and a better skill wizard, but she can only kill a 3 shot bm 16% of the time (maybe our definition of competent is different)? You also mention that with EP she deals 6ks non crit, and without it she deals 4k.. I was fairly sure extreme poison was a 20% amp, not 50% (/inb4 learning from Joshcja and making up numbers).

Anyway, to summarize your post, despite being able to kill an equivalently geared char that you consider competent over 80% of the time.. you think it should be even easier. Sounds legit, you are definitely not whining for easy mode.. you certainly have balance as your top concern. You've kinda lost either way, if you stick to your story about her being competent.. then you've given a situation that proc is not only necessary, but probably underpowered in some circumstances.. and if you say that she's a noob on the other hand, you would have contradicted yourself and I'd have caught you in another less than truthful statement. You make this way too easy.

You forget that the BM she's fighting happens to be competent as well. Just because someone isn't facerolling their opponent doesn't mean they're unskilled. I don't have to make up numbers, the 6k was from an EP boosted Stone Rain without Undine. Another hit was 8.1k from a Divine Pyro that crit while under the effects of Undine Strike. I have 49 Defense levels and 14.6ish k Mdef, it's a simple matter of math to figure out what her average hits would be against me with the information at hand.

See, there you go assuming yet again. You assume it was easy. Catching up, keeping my chi up, and getting through Purify Spell, Fortify, Badge of Courage, and Windshield, along with class skills is not the easiest thing in the world. I know saying it's easy is convenient, but when the class I'm fighting can easily maintain distance and slow me down constantly while dealing high amounts of damage as I try to close the gap... it becomes more difficult than you or any other caster would want to admit to.

I know that the thought of someone losing to me and being competent is alien to you, but I'm not as horrible a BM as you think I am. I've learned when to use my skills and been able to adapt to a pretty lame situation. The fight is an example from someone with firsthand experience against the proc at somewhat equal gear against a competent player. My ability or inability to lock her down would not have changed with more HP, not directly anyway. I could tank hits better, but my actual ability to lock down would not improve with more HP. It would not result in her being unable to Badge or Fortify or Distance Shrink away.

Just because I won does not mean:

It was easy
Purify Spell is overpowered
The Wizard was incompetent

dat EDIT:

I'm not surprised you and the others are jumping all over this as a reason to say it's not OP, afterall with the lack of logical arguments for your weapon proc I imagine you need any and every excuse you can find to justify it. I mean really, how is the proc necessary when she had so many ways of escaping me, keeping me at a distance, and mucking up my locks? Easy answer? It isn't. There's already plenty of options, on my side for catching up and re-locking and on her side for escaping and putting me at a distance. I was just better at using my options even when faced with Purify Spell. She's a great Wizard and there were a few times I was pretty close to dying, just because I won in no way justifies Purify Spell.

Adroit - Lost City · May 2013

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

http://pwcalc.com/6ec2f777b728f19c wiz (will be using jones for this post)
http://pwcalc.com/91eff75816f9bd5f bm (will be using a JOSD+ omaley version for this post, change the shards yourself I'm bloody lazy)

Wiz will try to kill bm following the same general rules as last time

Ok after changing shards around BM Def = 76% mag res after undine 117 def level 23997 hp Wiz Attack = 27251 average + 2.5k

(27251+2500)(1.18)(.25)(.24) = 2107

Due to range and poke damage + the carry over from last time (no autopot no def charm) We will be using straight hp this time around.

23997/2107(1.21)(1.25) = 7 hits to kill

At -32% chan (with a mag ring) adroit could cast 6 poke spells in 10 seconds requiring 1 extra crit to kill (14% chance)

Things to consider:

Spark is a low "cost" debuff as it forces the opponent to spend far more than you to live
BM is a calc with 100% perfect rolls.
The wiz hitting the bm does not give the bm a 6 second holy path + antistun
The wiz does not need to spend 35 chi to a spark in order to damage the bm.

So in a matchup where with autopot and def charms neither class can actually kill the other without debuffs the class that already has better chi conservation (even as a demon) gets a 21% chance to save geni/apoc for more sutra/spark

Seems legit

Let's try this again. Use an equivalently geared calc (http://pwcalc.com/12b94c1d268f8001). We are now going to use the same rules as last time, include the charm tick and neglect all debuffs of any kind. While you're at it, I wouldn't mind seeing a full buffed comparison as well.. no cheating!

Zanryu - Dreamweaver · May 2013

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

Let's try this again. Use an equivalently geared calc (http://pwcalc.com/12b94c1d268f8001). We are now going to use the same rules as last time, include the charm tick and neglect all debuffs of any kind. While you're at it, I wouldn't mind seeing a full buffed comparison as well.. no cheating!

I didn't know Undine wasn't pretty much a permanent debuff when a Wizard was on the offensive. Snap son. Hey, Wizards, do you guys never use Undine Strike on a target?

Joshcja - Sanctuary · May 2013

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

Let's try this again. Use an equivalently geared calc (http://pwcalc.com/12b94c1d268f8001). We are now going to use the same rules as last time, include the charm tick and neglect all debuffs of any kind. While you're at it, I wouldn't mind seeing a full buffed comparison as well.. no cheating!

Awww you still didnt read or at least didnt understand why I excluded things

Read entire posts sugarbuns

_dblazen_ - Dreamweaver · May 2013

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I didn't know Undine wasn't pretty much a permanent debuff when a Wizard was on the offensive. Snap son. Hey, Wizards, do you guys never use Undine Strike on a target?

Protip: Only incompetent wizards do b:laugh

Joshcja - Sanctuary · May 2013

_dblazen_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Protip: Only incompetent wizards do b:laugh

Only scrub not endgame wizzies actually use undine mang

Adroit - Lost City · May 2013

Oh so we include debuffs of a wizard but not debuffs from a bm? Sounds legit.

Joshcja - Sanctuary · May 2013

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

Oh so we include debuffs of a wizard but not debuffs from a bm? Sounds legit.

lemme break this into tiny bits for you

GS 2 sparks

HF 2 sparks

Geni counters geni

Undine is free

I said I was excluding Costly debuffs

Zanryu - Dreamweaver · May 2013

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

Oh so we include debuffs of a wizard but not debuffs from a bm? Sounds legit.

Purify Spell rids you of all ailments.

BMs have but two native debuffs, Heaven's Flame and Glacial Spike.

Both cost two sparks.

No Wizard or any other caster will sit there and let the BM make use of their duration.

There's a slim chance the BM will even have the chi to keep you locked down after using them.

Yeah, it's a real wonder why he didn't include those alright.

Mire? Extreme Poison? Windshield pretty much negates them and for cheaper. No wonder he didn't include those either.

Joshcja - Sanctuary · May 2013

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Purify Spell rids you of all ailments.

BMs have but two native debuffs, Heaven's Flame and Glacial Spike.

Both cost two sparks.

No Wizard or any other caster will sit there and let the BM make use of their duration.

There's a slim chance the BM will even have the chi to keep you locked down after using them.

Yeah, it's a real wonder why he didn't include those alright.

Mire? Extreme Poison? Windshield pretty much negates them and for cheaper. No wonder he didn't include those either.

I also left out spark due to the rare as hell use of soul of fire

Ahira - Lost City · May 2013

I'm a caster and i'm not really a fan of purify spell, just for the fact that it takes skill out of the game. I honestly felt I did just fine prior to purify! b:chuckle

Aps was getting a bit out of hand but instead of a reasonable cap (which would have upset half the community), they gave us purify (which did upset half the community).

Anyway I doubt it will be removed but i'm sure there shall a game breaking counter to it in the pipeline so dont worry too much.

I dont think it makes too much difference in 1v1 in any case (gof lucky kills vs purify lucky escapesb:question), but in group and nw you can see it now becoming less of an issue as squads are alot more aware on how to counter it.

Think autopot should be removed for sure tho- thats just too OP! b:angry

Marengo - Lost City · May 2013

Nice topic.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

When "end game" people are this blatantly stupid, it makes me question why we should listen to them.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Equal gears yeah kid. That's the whole point. Equal gear. Not G13 vs R9r3. R9r3 v R9r3 at equal refines. You're an idiot.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Oh well, I'm not sure why I'm bothering with an idiot like you. I must be extremely bored. No, wait, that's exactly it. I'm very bored. Do the alalalalalalala.

etc...

Zanryu - Dreamweaver · May 2013

Marengo - Lost City wrote: »

Nice topic.

etc...

Unf dat part where you ignore the legitimate arguments I've made.

marvinhuddleston · May 2013

Why is this worthless poll still going ? At no time has the numbers EVER supported nerfing or removal of the purify proc and they never will . It's just the same toons qq'ing over a dead horse .

slamstone · May 2013

more views and QQs...come on guys make an effort 23k views left till you reach rules of conduct record. Perfect World International Forum>Rules of Conduct> 67k views b:laugh

or 19k till u cap the offtopic afkers Perfect World International Forum> Off-Topic Discussion

should i continue on the futility of this thread?

Master_Ghoul - Lost City · May 2013

whaaa qq puri OP qq b:cry

i know lets remove all adds from all gear INt channel gor shatter puri etc etc....

then maybe will stop qq but i gues not.

um i think puri will las ooh idk two years before they start nerfing it just as aps was.

it aint going away live with it or gtfo.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver · May 2013

Master_Ghoul - Lost City wrote: »

um i think puri will las ooh idk two years before they start nerfing it just as aps was.

exactly my thoughts XD I guess the next really broken thing will be for archers/barbs

HrunsPanda - Archosaur · May 2013

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

exactly my thoughts XD I guess the next really broken thing will be for archers/barbs

b:laugh Oh yeah ! and im gonna have so much fun when everyone is QQing about my OPness b:pleased

Remove Purify Proc: Y/N. We had it coming!

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