So Barbarians what pisses you off or just makes you leave when in a squad?
Comments
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I think it may be useful to define "build" in this context. If you have a barb with 200+ dex, you have a pretty accurate barb. That doesn't mean he's an aps barb. It's not the stats I'm not a fan of, it's the choice of weapon, you see. :PHaila - Sanctuary wrote: »There is nothing wrong with the aps barb build, adding more dex for accuracy and crit is a thing a normal barb can do also but the other examples u mentioned are definately not normal b:bye[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yes, I'm still a stubborn holdout in favor of the old game. Haters gonna hate. ;]
Other Active Characters:
LigerKing (Barb), Girasole (BM), Shamsheer (Sin), ArborSoul (Mystic).0 -
Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »a non-designed weapon works technically better than the designed one.
This is mostly the core of the issue. The fact that fists weren't so much designed for our use, but they're more effective. It seems like its a smart person who sees something fail and tries to do it a more effective way and a dumb person who sees something not working and still keeps doing it because its "supposed to work this way."
Don't worry, I went through a stage where I heavily avoided vit barbs and sage barbs because they couldn't do what a barb was meant to do, tank. They had the hp for it but they couldn't (still can't, its just become more expected that they can't) hold aggro, even for a short time. Whether its a boss or zhenning mobs, its a build that repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly fails. Still the most popular build.
People recognize this and recognize the effectiveness of dd for holding aggro. Sins don't have a single dd skill but tank almost everything with damage. Barbs want to tank, they need to increase their damage output. Some people chose to increase dex to 100. Some chose to go pure strength. Others raised both. Some of us went claw, do roughly 6 times the dps output, have 5 times the chi gain, can spark resist, can use invoke and sunder as often as we want, constant self purifies, and hold aggro. For me that seems like a pretty good deal. Despite all of that its just a gear swap away from being a high dex strength barb, which is the form I'm in about 90% of the time. Many people don't know I'm an aps barb until the boss.
Oh, and thumbs. When I whisper people for a squad I just whisper "barb" because I expect to be tanking. However, a normal barb will not usually get picked for a dd spot when there is another barb in squad. That's why I whispered 'aps barb' because I thought they were only LF a dd. I have r9 sin damage, I can tank, and I bring hp/titans buff. That's a versatile character.
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Change of subject I think. I get annoyed when BMs stun in Delta. Some barbs love it, though. I like to Sunder+Arma and that requires chi and chi requires unstunned mobs hitting me with bestial rage. If I Sunder+Arma most the mobs die, I hold aggro, and I take alot less damage and have small repair bills. If I don't the mobs stay alive longer, higher repair bills, and I have a chance of losing aggro and a squishy getting it.
I always ask my BMs not to stun unless I lose aggro and I thought I was the only barb asking that but I've seen it a few times lately. As a BM I used to suggest for BMs to stun in the BM forums. Now I suggest they ask, and I always do. Some say its to keep the mobs grouped together but the ranged mobs don't stun and will kite anyways, the melee mobs will follow you wherever you go. I make my ranged mobs run twice and then bring the melee mobs into them but the stun sometimes locks the melee mobs far away. I suggest they use Bolt of Tyreseus instead, but its a 2 min cooldown and burns a spark.
Do you guys prefer your BMs to stun right when you bring them back or to not stun/wait a bit.Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory0 -
ur damage with axe with be so pitifull without crith i woudl laugh at you prolly 1k no wonder u need claw.
reroll.
pure str barb are the best enough said we dont need claw and to think otherwise is the most moronic think you ever do.
sin damage is not from crith tho its very nice they do so much but alsmo there insiane damsge from dex and gof u wont ever stay to to toe with thenm ever get over urself.
barb can never replace a dd and sin can never replace a tank if at least the dev at least made the effort to harden the bosses at the very least.
barb shoudl alredy be expect to have 20k+ hp so if a boss always does 20k most woudl die and teh game woudl be balanced back again.
i pity someone who need a secondery weapon to be usefull learn ur damn class or ur that bad0 -
KingClawX - Lost City wrote: »ur damage with axe with be so pitifull without crith i woudl laugh at you prolly 1k no wonder u need claw.
reroll.
pure str barb are the best enough said we dont need claw and to think otherwise is the most moronic think you ever do.
sin damage is not from crith tho its very nice they do so much but alsmo there insiane damsge from dex and gof u wont ever stay to to toe with thenm ever get over urself.
barb can never replace a dd and sin can never replace a tank if at least the dev at least made the effort to harden the bosses at the very least.
barb shoudl alredy be expect to have 20k+ hp so if a boss always does 20k most woudl die and teh game woudl be balanced back again.
i pity someone who need a secondery weapon to be usefull learn ur damn class or ur that bad
xD lol. I'm better then you, we both are I assure you. I played full Str Barbs, Full Vit Barbs, any kind of Hybrid just with the regular weapon. I can solo tt3-3 without a charm? can you do that too? I can hold aggro against the most G16 sins..can you even hold aggro against r8 sins? I can full pull any Pavilion in Warsong, can you do that? In a fight between us I would just laugh at you because with your low dex you would just miss me half the time while I zerk crit you to death. period.
Instead of being such a APS-barb hater try to learn your class instead and stop QQing us because our build is plain more effective. That's all. I doubt that you even got decent PvP experience to be able to even talk to us about stuff like that.
We can do anything in PvE and honestly, we can do it better then regular barbs.
@Saku: Yeah I hate stuns when aggroing a lot of mobs too, that got me nearly killed sometimes while duoing PV with a BM >.< I rather solo it xDD I even hate it when they HF because that sometimes lead to the case that I'm not fully sparked after using my arma and that's bad xDD especially in WS.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Got at least one alt of any class above level 100.
All decently geared and skilled (: .
And the most important thing is: They are all fun to play ^.^ .
b:laugh0 -
See, it's this line of thinking that encourages wanmei/PWE to keep pushing out increasingly broken gears because they know people will keep buying/farming them. Making a conscious decision to play the game as designed is not dumb.Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »This is mostly the core of the issue. The fact that fists weren't so much designed for our use, but they're more effective. It seems like its a smart person who sees something fail and tries to do it a more effective way and a dumb person who sees something not working and still keeps doing it because its "supposed to work this way."
If you or PW* want to design a new game where everyone has APS and/or r9, and instances and mobs are designed to challenge people with those gears, more power to you. It would probably make a lot more sense than the inconsistent mess we have now. Right now we have instances which are either designed for normal gears in which case aps/r9 etc. bulldozes the entire instance (FF, Aba/SoT, Nirvana) or designed for aps/r9 gears in which people with normal gears can't complete them properly without a ton of practice and in some cases luck (full WS, buffed TT3).
I've got 20k HP, sage pure vit build and a +3 TT99 weapon, and I can still hold aggro on a boss against any non-aps char just with ream/devour spamming. Add in stomp of the king and I can hold against some aps people and at least play aggro-pong with the rest. The only ones who consistently keep aggro from my barb are the high-refined r9 types, but let's be honest, with that gear what the hell do they need a barb for? >_> Besides buffs, I guess.Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »Don't worry, I went through a stage where I heavily avoided vit barbs and sage barbs because they couldn't do what a barb was meant to do, tank. They had the hp for it but they couldn't (still can't, its just become more expected that they can't) hold aggro, even for a short time. Whether its a boss or zhenning mobs, its a build that repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly fails. Still the most popular build.
As far as pulls go... honestly, what do you want from a barb? Do you think aps barbs magically get a better Roar so they hold aggro against groups better? :P
From what I've seen, the mastery of BM stun lies in its timing and placement. On my (98) BM in frost I'll sometimes overpull the magic mobs and then double back into their face with the melee mobs right behind me, and then stun... the end result being magic and melee mobs roughly together so that they can be made quick work of by the AoE DDs. But if the BM isn't also the puller, good communication is always key. Sometimes a BM can find that sweet spot between the melee and magic mobs where their AoEs can connect with most or all of them, but not always.Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »I always ask my BMs not to stun unless I lose aggro and I thought I was the only barb asking that but I've seen it a few times lately. As a BM I used to suggest for BMs to stun in the BM forums. Now I suggest they ask, and I always do. Some say its to keep the mobs grouped together but the ranged mobs don't stun and will kite anyways, the melee mobs will follow you wherever you go. I make my ranged mobs run twice and then bring the melee mobs into them but the stun sometimes locks the melee mobs far away. I suggest they use Bolt of Tyreseus instead, but its a 2 min cooldown and burns a spark.
Do you guys prefer your BMs to stun right when you bring them back or to not stun/wait a bit.
In general I never have a problem with BMs stunning on my barb. Just gives me more time to get off another roar/stomp/frighten or maybe even surf or sunder.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yes, I'm still a stubborn holdout in favor of the old game. Haters gonna hate. ;]
Other Active Characters:
LigerKing (Barb), Girasole (BM), Shamsheer (Sin), ArborSoul (Mystic).0 -
Joe - Momaganon wrote: »xD lol. I'm better then you, we both are I assure you. I played full Str Barbs, Full Vit Barbs, any kind of Hybrid just with the regular weapon. I can solo tt3-3 without a charm? can you do that too? I can hold aggro against the most G16 sins..can you even hold aggro against r8 sins? I can full pull any Pavilion in Warsong, can you do that? In a fight between us I would just laugh at you because with your low dex you would just miss me half the time while I zerk crit you to death. period.
Instead of being such a APS-barb hater try to learn your class instead and stop QQing us because our build is plain more effective. That's all. I doubt that you even got decent PvP experience to be able to even talk to us about stuff like that.
We can do anything in PvE and honestly, we can do it better then regular barbs.
+ 1 to this.Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »As far as pulls go... honestly, what do you want from a barb? Do you think aps barbs magically get a better Roar so they hold aggro against groups better? :P
From my experience, i can say playing a Aps barbarian has given me the chance to solo anything. Because of this, when i play in a group, i kinda still play solo, im going to survive and kill everything regardless of what the other players in the squad do. everything else they do speeds up the process. and yes i would put that down to my experience i have learnt from my build .
Other end of the scale, when i am in parties with other barbs they just tend to sit there..... and not do much.
difficult to explain what i mean
sure someone else will put it in good words0 -
I'm much more flighty on my barb than any other class.
Today I left squad because typical stupid assassin runs past us gathering to buff to charge in on where the wisps begin in Aba then begs for barb buff after (while I have yet to see BP from him). Typical stupid assassin (I play 2 assassins btw) keeps charging in on mobs then dying and failing to give BP buff. The cleric who was lead requested rebuffs after sin got another squadmate killed. Sin passed it up again to go and kill themselves on some mobs. At that point we were in view of BH Aba boss. Cleric requested that sin BP me then requested I buff sin. Rather than waste my mp charm to buff that stupid sin who would probably derpa derpa on the boss making it take 10x longer than it should: I bailed. Cleric whispered me later that they'd kicked the sin and wanted me back. It was too late: already in another squad.
People need to stop tolerating whatever is the current idiot class and their idiot mannerisms. If sin's die on metal boss: why do squads risk party wipe and others dying to wait for them? If they die on BH Aba because they derpa derpa during buffs: why do they risk party wipe to res them?0 -
Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »Right now we have instances which are either designed for normal gears in which case aps/r9 etc. bulldozes the entire instance (FF, Aba/SoT, Nirvana) or designed for aps/r9 gears in which people with normal gears can't complete them properly without a ton of practice and in some cases luck (full WS, buffed TT3).
Nah, i dont have experience with warsong yet, but done lots of all TT. In tt90 gear that is. Of course there are always overpowered squadmates so its rarely really challenging but it cant be because noone is up for a challenge anyway. When the team is not overpowered, people usually quit after the first death.
TT is what imo a game should be like for the normal equiped people. A challenge where eindeed you need practice, a team that really works as a team with everyone knowing its character and sometimes maybe even a little bit of luck yes.
That is how games are supposed to be. Thats i guess why someday people had to farm TT to actually get their TT gear.
I wasnt around in those days, but i would have loved to. The first days i played diablo 2 is for example one of my best memories in my gaming history. Noona had anything. The server was hell te get onto, so when you were in a game, you stayed in that game. We played a whole night going trough all acts at a difficulty with one and the same team. Everyone poor and weak, the game challenging, all trying to help eachother and making a real team effort. Oh i can dream of such days....How beautifull it must have been for people to take on the challenge of TT without even TT gear, improving it step by step as they progressed trough the levels of TT. Unfortunately games always quickly turn into an overpowered farmfest.0 -
Joe - Momaganon wrote: »xD lol. I'm better then you, we both are I assure you. I played full Str Barbs, Full Vit Barbs, any kind of Hybrid just with the regular weapon. I can solo tt3-3 without a charm? can you do that too? I can hold aggro against the most G16 sins..can you even hold aggro against r8 sins? I can full pull any Pavilion in Warsong, can you do that? In a fight between us I would just laugh at you because with your low dex you would just miss me half the time while I zerk crit you to death. period.
Instead of being such a APS-barb hater try to learn your class instead and stop QQing us because our build is plain more effective. That's all. I doubt that you even got decent PvP experience to be able to even talk to us about stuff like that.
We can do anything in PvE and honestly, we can do it better then regular barbs.
@Saku: Yeah I hate stuns when aggroing a lot of mobs too, that got me nearly killed sometimes while duoing PV with a BM >.< I rather solo it xDD I even hate it when they HF because that sometimes lead to the case that I'm not fully sparked after using my arma and that's bad xDD especially in WS.
who cant hold agro of r8 sin 4aps **** heads....
as far damage i dont miss more then the damage i do wish is enough to lower ur hp and the best skill wish is stun does hit 99% of the time.
stun mean cant aps.
and ya lol u woudl wish to start wit haxe and spark and start aps in wish case i go kity and invoke ooh and ty for OPINg my aps buff pkus plus all the chi i get why this enough to sage spark and do genie and crith u for 10k+++.
yes i hope u chock in ur silly claw u would look more **** then a vit barb,
ty god for dumb *** barbs0 -
HrunsPanda - Archosaur wrote: »Nah, i dont have experience with warsong yet, but done lots of all TT. In tt90 gear that is. Of course there are always overpowered squadmates so its rarely really challenging but it cant be because noone is up for a challenge anyway. When the team is not overpowered, people usually quit after the first death.
TT is what imo a game should be like for the normal equiped people. A challenge where eindeed you need practice, a team that really works as a team with everyone knowing its character and sometimes maybe even a little bit of luck yes.
That is how games are supposed to be. Thats i guess why someday people had to farm TT to actually get their TT gear.
I wasnt around in those days, but i would have loved to. The first days i played diablo 2 is for example one of my best memories in my gaming history. Noona had anything. The server was hell te get onto, so when you were in a game, you stayed in that game. We played a whole night going trough all acts at a difficulty with one and the same team. Everyone poor and weak, the game challenging, all trying to help eachother and making a real team effort. Oh i can dream of such days....How beautifull it must have been for people to take on the challenge of TT without even TT gear, improving it step by step as they progressed trough the levels of TT. Unfortunately games always quickly turn into an overpowered farmfest.
that remind me of when pw 1st weeks and ppl where doing there very 1st fb19 as a veno and then a barb it was mostly untamed for me and it sure took time.
not saying bh or lv40s not at my time no it was low 20s trying to do there very 1st fb19 for a silly fb 3star lv20 weapon.
and then quest at silver pool with lots of low lv and get pked why simular low lv geared player from rq mostly or panic or some such faction dont remember ecxact name it died in the 1st weeks.
old pwi was muuuuuuch diff then today espeically lost city and harsland......
sorry but the pw of today is no where near what it used to be like quest culty quest fb/culty19 quest grind fb29/culty quest grind culty quest grind grind culty quest grind grind culty fb59 pk and pk wars all in between.0 -
I ran 15 Lunar runs on sat. I initiated all the runs, my coin. I'm the type of person that will give you several chances. If you keep making the same mistake, i'll kick you. I basically had all the same members for several runs. The last 4 runs, I picked up a Veno. During my pulls in bh path, I would group the mabs real tight and agro all, the cleric bb'ed and the moment I grouped and the cleric bb'ed, the Veno kept doing her knockback skill/stun. they would spread all the way out and stay there for a long period of time. I mentioned the first run. not to do it. I don't think they understood englich. Run #2, same thing. I continuously said stop doing it. whats the point of grouping them tight, if your going to kill it with that damn knockback. Run #3, she did it on the first pull, I was done. Kicked in the middle of the fight, no questions, no comment from me. I picked up a seeker that kept trying to tell me how to do my pulls. Mind you, I just ran 14 runs prior with only 1 death. The annoying thing about him was when he kept bragging about how his skill is the strongest in the game. I told him, well when you do your lunar run, you can pull the way you want, he shut up the rest of the run. Barbs rule!!!R9s3 Beast w/Demon Facepalm0
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When the barb dosen't arma on aoe pulls then complains about low DPS or agro theft
As a barb...nothing really I dont use it much outside of warsong/bh/delta/alt fcc's and I can pretty hardcore carry if not solo the instances on it
tt99 1/2 LA claw barb with OHT axes for life
Stupid clerics are annoying on any class though including cleric lolGifs are hard to make work here0 -
Things that irk me the most are, when luring for example the phys path in lunar, the combo i use is, spark, beastial rage, roar, sunder, surf impact, arma and frighten.
When i run with a bm that isnt familiar with my play style i request that they dont stun the mobs so i can get my combo off, but it just amazes me the amount of bms that open with a stun leave my combo wrecked and end up **** up aggro.
If we are killing a boss and the sin has g13 daggers and i request that they amp for my spark instead of his and they fail to do so.
People who knockback magic mobs from me when i am in range for their phys hits.
Barbs who dont devour,[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
_Mg_Zr - 102 Demon Kitty Kat
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and is widely regarded as a bad move."
- Douglas Adams0 -
People are... resistant to advice. It sucks because they don't improve and it doesn't frustrate them that they're not good, it frustrates others.
But I have a few friends who ask my advice on BMing and I really try to teach them at low levels to use their HF and Glacial Spike to "glue" aggro to the tank. If you're in BH69 and the barb is having a hard time keeping aggro from the sin and the sin dies everytime they get aggro, then stop HFing the sins sparks and start timing it to your barbs damage burst periods >.<
What brought this up was the comment above "barbs that don't devour." When I'm on my sin I
barbs that know Devouring gives me about 30% more paint heals and makes my life so much easier and things go faster. I could care less if the Flesh Ream, as about 95% of sins agree. There are times that Flesh Ream is awesome, like as a boss seals or purges, stuns, or bubbles. Most the time it just makes the boss move and aoe more. On the other hand Devour speeds things up, gives more paint heals, and reduces boss attack levels so they're actually doing something useful.
Totally agree Mg ZrSeven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory0 -
Another thing that can get on my nerve is when a squad consists of purely physical DD's and BM's use glacial spike. If i see some that does this i try to explain to them that they should save chi because devour (mine is demon) lasts for 15 seconds and glacial spike only lasts for 10 (i think) and they both give the same phys def reduction. I think id prefer if the bm would save that chi for hf or mss.
Well the annoying thing is when the bms understand what i say but keep on doing the same thing.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
_Mg_Zr - 102 Demon Kitty Kat
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and is widely regarded as a bad move."
- Douglas Adams0 -
_Mg_Zr - Harshlands wrote: »Another thing that can get on my nerve is when a squad consists of purely physical DD's and BM's use glacial spike. If i see some that does this i try to explain to them that they should save chi because devour (mine is demon) lasts for 15 seconds and glacial spike only lasts for 10 (i think) and they both give the same phys def reduction. I think id prefer if the bm would save that chi for hf or mss.
Well the annoying thing is when the bms understand what i say but keep on doing the same thing.
If there's a sage BM in squad with my demon BM they usually offer to GS so I can demon HF. I don't point out that the barb can devour for less chi, Devour lasts longer (if demon), helps with aggro, and also reduces attack levels. I don't point it out because it makes the sage BMs feel like they're actually doing something useful.Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory0 -
Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »If there's a sage BM in squad with my demon BM they usually offer to GS so I can demon HF. I don't point out that the barb can devour for less chi, Devour lasts longer (if demon), helps with aggro, and also reduces attack levels. I don't point it out because it makes the sage BMs feel like they're actually doing something useful.
Hmm i didnt think about it like that.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
_Mg_Zr - 102 Demon Kitty Kat
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and is widely regarded as a bad move."
- Douglas Adams0 -
Venos who ask if you can use zeal because tame pet skill takes so much mana...
. . . what.Leader of Cyanure on Valonsurma and a proud member of Vertu
Demon Strength Barbarian 103/103/101
Demon Pure Mag Cleric 102/102/101 | Demon 4 APS Assassin 102/102/101 | Demon Pure Mag Mystic 102/101/101 | Demon Pure Mag Psychic 100/100/93 | Demon 4 APS-Barbarian 100/100 | HA-venomancer 100 | DPH Assassin 100 | Pure Mag Wizard 100 | Demon Pure Mag Stormbringer 96 | Demon DPS Archer 94 | Sage Vit Barbarian 93 | Demon All-Path Blademaster 93 | Str Seeker 86 | Pure Mag Venomancer 81 | Pure Mag Wizard 81 | Pure Dex Duskblade 470 -
_Mg_Zr - Harshlands wrote: »Things that irk me the most are, when luring for example the phys path in lunar, the combo i use is, spark, beastial rage, roar, sunder, surf impact, arma and frighten.
When i run with a bm that isnt familiar with my play style i request that they dont stun the mobs so i can get my combo off, but it just amazes me the amount of bms that open with a stun leave my combo wrecked and end up **** up aggro.
Indeed *** off with the stun, just HF my arma plz
Of course it depends on the situation. If the squad kills the mobs in 2 seconds, there is no use in waiting for me to spark so they better do it their way. This barb nuke playstyle is not the best in all situations.0 -
Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »If there's a sage BM in squad with my demon BM they usually offer to GS so I can demon HF. I don't point out that the barb can devour for less chi, Devour lasts longer (if demon), helps with aggro, and also reduces attack levels. I don't point it out because it makes the sage BMs feel like they're actually doing something useful.
Why not just spark and DD isnt that usefull enough ?0
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