So Barbarians what pisses you off or just makes you leave when in a squad?

Colum - Raging Tide

PHYSICAL ORNAMENT barbs. For real.

+ people who cry me to aggro all when I use alpha male instead of roar.. duh.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Colum - Raging Tide wrote: »

PHYSICAL ORNAMENT barbs. For real.

Totally agree -.- Especially in places like Warsong or BH Aba where a bulk of the damage in magic.

Colum - Raging Tide wrote: »

+ people who cry me to aggro all when I use alpha male instead of roar.. duh.

Kind of agree with the other people here. AM is only aggro against the cleric heals but your DDs still can't attack without getting aggro immediately. Everyonce in a while I'll do a big Metal pull and get seal locked for 15 seconds straight and can't roar so I AM and bring the mobs back. As soon as I'm back I try to roar but sometimes a DD attacks, pulls aggro on every mob and the DD explodes because AM doesn't give me aggro over DDs.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Totally agree -.- Especially in places like Warsong or BH Aba where a bulk of the damage in magic.

Kind of agree with the other people here. AM is only aggro against the cleric heals but your DDs still can't attack without getting aggro immediately. Everyonce in a while I'll do a big Metal pull and get seal locked for 15 seconds straight and can't roar so I AM and bring the mobs back. As soon as I'm back I try to roar but sometimes a DD attacks, pulls aggro on every mob and the DD explodes because AM doesn't give me aggro over DDs.

I've given up on Roar and AM altogether. It kinda saves clerics but doesn't do diddly vs even +3 Lv 95 Morai weapon AoE'rs. Middle of the fight it's just a sure fire way to troll/kill DDs.

I'll still roar for the 100% reflect if no veno is present, but really at this point I'm sunder-arma'ing to try and get any modicum of aggro for AOE. And I'm doing it before I even get near the damn BM so he doesn't **** up the sunder-arma combo. It's getting to the point where I am going to need cloud eruption to do it with a BM around.

Currently its:

Get full Chi
(Optional Roar)
(Optional Invoke)
Bestial Rage
Sunder
Arma
(Optional Swell)
Kitty form
(Optional Surf)
FR/Devour stuff to try and keep aggro
Lose aggro
Stand up and BKI my chi back to full to prep for next pull

If the fight lasts long enough and I'm lucky to still have aggro on anything, I'll re-sunder-arma. Otherwise I'll just sunder or arma to keep the damage rolling.

I really hope the Devour fix does something for bosses/single targets. Their next step is dealing with Roar.

Colum - Raging Tide

I see roar and AM as effective - no effect at all except keeps heal aggro off.

I hope demon roar will help some.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Colum - Raging Tide wrote: »

I see roar and AM as effective - no effect at all except keeps heal aggro off.

I hope demon roar will help some.

I see AM as instant aggro loss.

Roar helps me keep aggro until I can Sunder. Sunder helps me keep aggro until I can Arma. Arma helps me keep aggro another 10-15 seconds. Now its been 20+ seconds, demon roar has continued to stack reflect damage at 100% reflect for its full 15 seconds and I should have hundreds of thousands of damage dealt between Sunder and Arma (or about 100-150k against [?] mobs). Pretty much nothing should be alive by the time the dd's aggro catches up to mine.

If it was AM first I'd have about 8k in reflect damage and then lost aggro, spent part of my time chasing mobs to whoever aggroed them, and had a loss of chi from bestial rage making it hard to chain any combo of skills.

And I agree with you Maelael. I usually whisper the BM in Delta to not stun unless I actually lose aggro (about 25% still do anyways...). For most runs this means they never have to stun. When I do lose aggro normally 80% or more of the mobs are dead and the dd that was strong enough to take aggro is also strong enough to tank the few remaining mobs inside a bb. If I'm on my BM I'll whisper the barb and ask if they want the mobs stunned or left unstunned so they get chi from bestial.

I've been considering putting this tip into the bm forums also. A better option for BMs than stunning is using Bolt of Tyreseus to freeze the ranged and melee in a bunch right around the bb so that aoes hit all of them and the ranged don't spread out. Most ranged mobs don't stun anyways but will freeze (I'm sure you know and do this, this is for others). THe problem is since Bolt is a 2 min cooldown and waves come every 2 minutes it cools down later and later and eventually you skip a wave. You have to plan ahead which waves to use it for so its cooled down. I wish they'd change the cd from 120 seconds to 115 or something, just to allow for this.

Colum - Raging Tide

For barbs w/o demon roar AM should be more helpful because it has the little reflect effect after all.

_Mg_Zr - Heavens Tear

But the aggro from AM is useless so youd be better of keeping your genie to ToP arma

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

And I agree with you Maelael. I usually whisper the BM in Delta to not stun unless I actually lose aggro (about 25% still do anyways...). For most runs this means they never have to stun. When I do lose aggro normally 80% or more of the mobs are dead and the dd that was strong enough to take aggro is also strong enough to tank the few remaining mobs inside a bb. If I'm on my BM I'll whisper the barb and ask if they want the mobs stunned or left unstunned so they get chi from bestial.

I've been considering putting this tip into the bm forums also. A better option for BMs than stunning is using Bolt of Tyreseus to freeze the ranged and melee in a bunch right around the bb so that aoes hit all of them and the ranged don't spread out. Most ranged mobs don't stun anyways but will freeze (I'm sure you know and do this, this is for others). THe problem is since Bolt is a 2 min cooldown and waves come every 2 minutes it cools down later and later and eventually you skip a wave. You have to plan ahead which waves to use it for so its cooled down. I wish they'd change the cd from 120 seconds to 115 or something, just to allow for this.

At this point I *might* stun late in the game in RB. I just start out with HF to gank aggro and abuse that myself with my AoEs and keep the aggro. I'll stun if a squishie gets aggro or if I have to keep the melee mobs in place and go aggro some range mobs.

On my Barb, the second a well played DD has +10 it's really stupid difficult to keep aggro, and it rarely lasts past that second round of sunder-arma even with lesser refines. However my build is demon cata, so I've only got 300 str and a +7 R8r weapon (With magic attack add! Yea!).

Roids on HT gives me a run for my money on my BM at spawn, but he does what I do on my Barb, I go and roar-sunder-arma before the squad is allowed to touch it.

But on point of the thread, I can really say what ticks me off is people who request a Barb, and only a Barb for BH. Not a "Tank" but a Barb. Save like 1 time, every time I go with a squad wanting a Barb, and only a Barb, it's rather failsauce.

sapaki

stomp of king ftw b:chuckle

Colum - Raging Tide

Other barbs with same or higher HP as me and they cant even do their job right.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Colum - Raging Tide wrote: »

Other barbs with same or higher HP as me and they cant even do their job right.

On bosses, if they have higher hp because they've stat alot of vit instead of refining then I expect Ill be tanking because I have higher strength and better damage for more aggro.

If we're talking about pulls, then yes, this is a personal pet peeve for me also. Watching barbs that do the worlds tiniest pulls while I play another class.

In FCC healing on my cleric I'd get the 15k+ barbs that want to takes groups one at a time so I'd stack them with IH then type "catch up when you're ready" use my shields, put an IH on myself, and just do the pull myself on my pure magic cleric that had >6k hp with barb buff. BB would be up before shields were gone and once bb was up I was pretty good.

Same nowadays with Seat/Aba. You get the barbs that do 2 mobs at a time while you stand back and wait for them to pull. Finally its like "**** it!" *pulls 15 mobs on sin*.

Deago - Lost City

I truly think the most annoying thing is when you have someone trying to tell you how to play your class even after they die and your character stays a live. Then when it comes to say BH SoT and a sin will say just devour, mean while Ill use claws and keep aggro the entire fight.

_Mg_Zr - Heavens Tear

Deago - Lost City wrote: »

I truly think the most annoying thing is when you have someone trying to tell you how to play your class even after they die and your character stays a live. Then when it comes to say BH SoT and a sin will say just devour, mean while Ill use claws and keep aggro the entire fight.

That does annoy my head

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Deago - Lost City wrote: »

I truly think the most annoying thing is when you have someone trying to tell you how to play your class even after they die and your character stays a live. Then when it comes to say BH SoT and a sin will say just devour, mean while Ill use claws and keep aggro the entire fight.

Bah, just replied to this post but in the middle of writing it I put my son down for a nap. He went and hid under my computer desk and in the process unplugged the wireless router so when I hit post I got a "no net connection" message and lost what I'd written.

Most people play more than 1 class. Even though they're on a sin or wizard now and are giving you advice on how to play a barb, maybe they are a pro barb on their alt.

I give out advice in squads only to the people who are doing the big no-no's. Like cleric's using Morai weapons for healing, barbs that use AM as the last move after all their big aggro moves, BMs that pull magic hall with phys marrow on or physical hall with magic marrow on... That sort of thing. Obviously stoopid things. The reaction I get half the time is "I'll play my class, you play yours".

They then ignore what was offered as helpful advice and continue to suck. You don't have to follow advice, but consider it when its given. I don't mind recieving advice and some of it has improved my gameplay greatly. Some of it has been flat-out horrible advice. I said thank you, then ignored it. I'd suggest you not be closed off to advice in general or you'll be stuck making the same mistakes over and over again and laughed at.

As for the BH Seat boss, I have G16 claws also and a pure strength build. Still, BH Seat and Warsong Incarnate I tank in tiger form. Seat boss is [?] boss, so he reduces damage to 1/4, then his anti auto-attack buff reduces damage about 1/6th. So you are doing 1/24th the damage of what you would do against a normal boss near your level.

I know on my bm I do more damage spamming skills with my axes than I do triple sparking with claws. Same with my G15 sin, I put on Chill of the Deep and skill spam because it out DD's 5 apsing at 1/6th the damage.

I'd guess with a barb skill spamming out DDs 5 aps auto attacking, also. Add in the aggro from skills like FR and Devour. Add in ~30% more damage for you and every physical char in your squad from Devour debuff. That 30% becomes 60% when the BM HFs, more when you add in Amp, TM, or EP. Now the boss is really dieing quicker. Its also safer because you can frighten and have attack level debuffs from Devour. I think we've all seen the cleric or a sin explode from the short range physical aoe the boss uses. One skill we can spam is Alacrity for decent damage and for interupt boss aoes. We are fed chi by the boss so we can constantly use Sunder or be triple sparked without needing 5 aps. Also, human form means you have less physical defense and the boss only uses physical attacks.

Imo you really gimped the yourself and your squad by auto-attacking and that gives aps barbs a bad name when they don't know when to use tiger form and when to use skills. You also didn't take advice which makes you look nubbly. You made the boss die slower. You allowed it to be more dangers. I mean, congrats on out DDing a sin but that isn't the case with better sins. You just found a weaker one.

You normally have smart posts but a post about being to stubborn to listen to good advice and not knowing when to use tiger form and when to aps isn't a good example.

Myzzie - Lothranis

when they're waiting for something to happen before they pull b:cry

Colum - Raging Tide

Barbs who do 1 mob group in magic groups at a time in FC even when they have 10k HP.
The same barb dies in a half pull after Dreadinra. Errrr..
Well, he mistimed holy path and didn't use crabs, though.

Also people insulting my barb for low HP (demon barb 15k HP, r8 currently though) while their barbs have more HP and less attack - they cant pull aggro off from me and I can stand the bosses as well as they can.

mrcharlyplustwo

Clerics that complain about you 'tanking' when they are healing the other barb. then demand that one of us fights in human form so they can tell the difference between us. I'm a tiger build. my tiger skills are raised, not human.

I'm 'tanking' because I out damage the &^ lot of you. Not because I'm using roar or fr.

Then the 'tanking' barb doesn't use devour. So whenever I use Devour, the spike damage means I pull aggro.

FFS

Oh, and select ppl by clicking on the squad list. It's not hard.

My friend who you invited to the squad? The one who bought the wine? How many of you offered to put coin towards it? Oh, none. And you didn't say thanks, either.

Colum - Raging Tide

Human form comes useless anyway, especially if you choose demon path. I don't get why so many people rage for you not using it if you are str-vit balanced tiger builded barb who can tank the sht out of mobs..

HrunsPanda - Archosaur

Did you turn 100 very recently ?

I have been ignoring human form for at least 80 levels, but when the mass pulling came around i found out that human form is very usefull because you simply need all the aoe skills you have unless you want to stand waiting for the cooldown of surf impact and are satisfied with casting 1 spell every 8 seconds. Besides that, there is this human skill that you cast just before you run so you wont get slowed or stopped. And espescially a demon barb should appreciate the humon skill armagedon (after sunder)

PS: i have never heard a cleric complain about me tanking when there is 2 barbs. I just agree with the other barb who tanks and if its not me, i dont flesh ream. If you can steal agro from him without using flesh ream, there is something very wrong with him and obviously you should be the one tanking. Of course when you are talking about multiple (but not mass) mobs or bosses with mobs where a secondary tank would take the mobs while the other tanks the bosses, than the cleric indeed needs to share his attention.

HrunsPanda - Archosaur

Myzzie - Lothranis wrote: »

when they're waiting for something to happen before they pull b:cry

I love that, waiting for me to pull !

mrcharlyplustwo

HrunsPanda - Archosaur wrote: »

Did you turn 100 very recently ?

Only lvl77

I was pulling aggro when I hit with devour - the 'tanking' barb wasn't keeping devour up on the mob (why?). Using calamity axes - crits + proc and I was hitting over 20k single hits on the boss.

Colum - Raging Tide

I think he referred to me.

Not recently. I didn't say I don't use human form at all but I said it's rather useless in most situations.

Of course it has uses in delta. In full delta I go
Untamed Wrath > Tiger mode > Invoke > runrun and gather > anti stun pot > AD > roar > to squad > chi > sunder > impact > arma/swell in human form and slam on runners. If time.

Mostly I do not have time.

HrunsPanda - Archosaur

mrcharlyplustwo wrote: »

Only lvl77

I was pulling aggro when I hit with devour - the 'tanking' barb wasn't keeping devour up on the mob (why?). Using calamity axes - crits + proc and I was hitting over 20k single hits on the boss.

20k single hits, that is of course extremely rare, (30% proc chance + 5% or so crit chance makes for 1.5% chance and im pretty sure not all your proc+crits are gonna be near 20k) yes maybe that can steal agro if its early in the fight, after a few flesh reams from the tanking barb, even your lucky 20k hit should not steal agro

Even though the text of devour sais it makes extra agro, i advise you not to think of devour as an agro producing skill. It makes the DD's do more damage and thus generate more agro for them. The agro it creates for you may somewhat offset that, but still, i consider it a skill that decreases my agro relative to the dds rather than increases it. For that reason in a 2 barb situation, it is a good idea that the tanking barb spends all his chi on flesh ream and the other barb does the devour job. When you are the only barb, you may also have to devour a bit less or even not at all if you are having trouble keeping agro. It is unfortunate maybe, but the best way to keep agro against DDs is to do only flesh ream and skills that generate chi te keep yourself reaming as much as possible (frighten, surf impact, or just normal attack)

Lolgasmic - Raging Tide

well i got ticked off last night.

the sin was stealing aggro on occasion (running a bh69... sin was 90, but very well geared) and he asked me to keep aggro a bit better.

10 seconds later he uses the demon chi skill on the nob boss......... then demon sparks.

i didnt lose aggro that time, because i saw he just Derp'd big time, but i did laugh when he died in the Phys AOE


other than that, the only thing that makes me upset is just squad mates doing something stupid or saying something stupid.

i have never cared if i die, not ever. But if i have to die to save the squad, because someone else f*cked up, im going to be a bit mad

mrcharlytoo

HrunsPanda - Archosaur wrote: »

20k single hits, that is of course extremely rare, (30% proc chance + 5% or so crit chance makes for 1.5% chance and im pretty sure not all your proc+crits are gonna be near 20k) yes maybe that can steal agro if its early in the fight, after a few flesh reams from the tanking barb, even your lucky 20k hit should not steal agro

Even though the text of devour sais it makes extra agro, i advise you not to think of devour as an agro producing skill. It makes the DD's do more damage and thus generate more agro for them. The agro it creates for you may somewhat offset that, but still, i consider it a skill that decreases my agro relative to the dds rather than increases it. For that reason in a 2 barb situation, it is a good idea that the tanking barb spends all his chi on flesh ream and the other barb does the devour job. When you are the only barb, you may also have to devour a bit less or even not at all if you are having trouble keeping agro. It is unfortunate maybe, but the best way to keep agro against DDs is to do only flesh ream and skills that generate agro te keep yourself reaming as much as possible (frighten, surf impact, or just normal attack)

Thanks for the advice. Will make sure I use FR more when tanking in future.
With current gear I think my crit rate is about 8%. Normal Devour is 5-6k on bosses, 13k is common, 20-33k rare (only seen 33k once and wish I'd got a screen shot).

Colum - Raging Tide

I wasn't the barb in squad, was on my mystic alt, but my heart hurted to see how one seeker squadplayed in 51.

We had 2 myst healers, barb, seeker, archer and sin. The seeker seemed to think he is the tank and rushed forward while I put falling petals and shield on the barb. Barb obviously got aggro back, the ***** seeker ***** his charm badly, however. We told him to wait on pulls because barb is the tank. He answers " but I am tank build. "
Geez. Well we continue. Seeker makes a suicide and pulls 5 mobs, and he has to res. At every boss he tried to steal aggro by vortexing, even at wyvern. I didn't focus on healing him at that point anymore. -_-''

mrcharlytoo

Vortex is seeker's highest dps skill - what do you expect him to do? Stand there and wave sword around?


Unless the barb spams FR, the DD and possibly the cleric are going to pull aggro. It's up to the barb to pull it back again.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

mrcharlytoo wrote: »

Vortex is seeker's highest dps skill - what do you expect him to do? Stand there and wave sword around?


Unless the barb spams FR, the DD and possibly the cleric are going to pull aggro. It's up to the barb to pull it back again.

Skill spam with correct combos is actually higher dps but you eventually run out of aoes and have a down period, so it depends how long you'll be aoeing. For standard mobs they'll be dead before you run out of aoes.

And even higher dps then that is debuffing for the squad rather than vortexing. Vortex is just easy mode for idiots. Some days I feel lazy and use it quite a bit and love it. Other days I hate when I use it because I know there are better alternatives.



Another thing to add to the "what pisses you off" list. I'm a barb. I know my spot is out in front. You know how often I'm on my sin or bm and have a barb constantly walking behind me waiting for me to go first? Back seat driving barbs is what I call them. Sounds like the seeker in that squad had a back seat barb who wasn't being front row so the seeker took the tanking job. Barbs really are the best pulling class, so the only way someone can take that job from you is if you are allowing them to.

Another thing already mentioned are clerics/mystics who assume the barb is the only tank at higher levels. Yes, at lower levels it is nice to designate one person to tank so only one person needs to be healed, but at higher levels when people get gear enough to take a few hits anyone can become a tank. Class is irrelevant. But some classes, and especially some barbs, insist that only the barb can tank anything and only the barb should be healed.

mrcharlytoo

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Skill spam with correct combos is actually higher dps but you eventually run out of aoes and have a down period, so it depends how long you'll be aoeing.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but I'd love to know which skill combo gives higher dps

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

mrcharlytoo wrote: »

I'm not saying you are wrong, but I'd love to know which skill combo gives higher dps

Seekers have 5 aoes and vortex. Gemini hits harder than vortex ticks, Stalag and Darkcloud hit faster but weaker. Soulsevere +Gemini deals metal damage, and edged blur deals metal damage so use them after ion spike. If you have parched blade active instead the bonus damage added to stalag increases it to be as hard hitting as vortex, just quicker and with a stun effect, but I normally use soulsevere. Once active its basically a 10% amp. For the same amount of sparks used you can add edged blur to your attacks and use other aoes while moving around and debuffing. Edged blur catches up the damage difference between stalag/dark and vortex.

So stalag, darkcloud, (blade affinity), ion spike, gemini slash, edged blur, stalag, dark cloud. Then you hit a cool down Q.q. My next move is usually gemini in case something doesnt have soulsevere from the first one. Thats the basic aoe chain I use, but thats about 15 seconds of attacks. At this point you can sacrifical slash, QpQ it onto a mob or leave it, and then you'll have 15 seconds of about +25 attack level aoeing also. Sometimes I use vortex at the end just as a clean up move but usually just save the sparks and 1v1 or wait for aoe cool down.