So Barbarians what pisses you off or just makes you leave when in a squad?

BloodTyrant - Raging Tide

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

I was with you right up until you started barb bashing, again. I agree with you on knockbacks (btw, some numbers. Archer Wingspan -9m, Wizard Phoenix-18m, Psychic Landslide-18m, Mystic Tornado- 12-13m, Barb Slam - 9m, BM Meteor or Atmos-18m) but you tend to be jaded and turn all forum arguments into a vit vs claw argument.

You're right, whoever heard of a tiger having claws. Ridiculous.

The point is, bp can heal about 4x better than a cleric and many of our skills require paying a chi cost which claws can help build. So a barb that can't build chi and has low survivability (an axe only barb) is more like an axe bm than a claw barb is like a claw bm. Congratulations, you've made your barb in to a furry axe bm from 2009.

People who seem to think claws take away anything from the barb seem to be the new players who haven't learned their barb skills or their character. Claw barbs can still use every skill with the click of a button. A difference of 10% hp is nothing when comparing the survivability, versatility, and aggro ability to keep being the tank.

Not to mention, many of us are f2p and need like to have as many self-sustaining characters as possible for farming. I'll admit, a vit barb is a better catapuller although I've seen some clawbarbs do it amazingly.

Expand your barbs abilities.

sakuba have i ever told you that i love you for your posts about claw barbs? srsly dude you stole my heart! i support everything you said!b:dirty

Knownase - Heavens Tear

I've been every type of Barb, I've had the TW vit build, I've had the PvP Str/Dex Build, and I've been both Sage and Demon. I am a claw Barb, and I love every moment of it, I have more control over the chaotic things this game can throw at me with a different perspective on the challenge, and I can remain F2P, and manage very well.

I love playing as a Barb too much to roll as a BM or Sin, Barb4Life!

Galliano - Heavens Tear

In SoT/Aba when people are still aps stupid, even worse, when you ask/tell them not to they keep going.

In Metal when you ask for an aoe puller, and.....they pm saying they can, when they have no idea how to do it.

Mystics - When they dont back up heal, and their reason is "because it costs mana"

Clerics - Who prefer to DD than heal.

Venos - dont purge/amp (lawls)

People who brag about how rich they are, but don't have anything to show for it.

People who are rich, but have no idea how to play their chars.

People who join squads, then say they are busy finishing some other quest...and come in leaving the work to everyone else.

People who go brb/afk long periods of time.

Redmenace - Heavens Tear

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

I was with you right up until you started barb bashing, again.

Ah, see that's where you missed it. Don't like claw barbs = barb bashing.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

The point is, bp can heal about 4x better than a cleric and many of our skills require paying a chi cost which claws can help build. So a barb that can't build chi and has low survivability (an axe only barb) is more like an axe bm than a claw barb is like a claw bm. Congratulations, you've made your barb in to a furry axe bm from 2009.

If your barb can't build chi, and has "low survivability" because you're an axe barb then apparently you can't manage to build a barb. If going claws makes you happier then that's wonderful - but your inability to raise a char as simple and basic as a barb on this system says more about you than the game. Seriously - going claw is a choice I don't agree with but I sure as hell don't think you fail the class if you do it.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

People who seem to think claws take away anything from the barb seem to be the new players who haven't learned their barb skills or their character.

See, now that came right out of your pants - nowhere else. Even Knownase knows thats a line of ****. He actually has run all those builds, and chose claw after playing his toon each way for a long time - not just because the rest were fail. I'll bet most of the people who have gone from tank to claw have done so in response to the fact that the game has evolved away from barbs - poor updates, new classes either OP or other DD classes APS/upgraded much more than barbs got.

I prefer to find a way to make the original way work - and it does just fine, thanks.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Claw barbs can still use every skill with the click of a button.

Switch weapon, barb skill, switch wep, claw, switch wep, tiger form, barb skill, stand up, switch wep, APS some more.

Sure thing.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

A difference of 10% hp is nothing when comparing the survivability, versatility, and aggro ability to keep being the tank.

10%? Yea, sure.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Not to mention, many of us are f2p and need like to have as many self-sustaining characters as possible for farming.

And now I'm a cash-shopper?

How many barbs that get invited for the new SoT and Abba BH runs are tanking those bosses standing up with claws? How many cata pullers in winning factions are running 17k hp? How often do you see *successful* full RB's with barbs pulling standing up, and apsing the mobs?

<shrug> I realize claw barb is a viable build. So is HA veno, and clerics with lvl1 res, and light armor wizzies. But unless you're glueing credit cards together to build it, there are gonna be trade-offs, and they're not always gonna be good.

When I wanna aps the **** out of something, I roll my sin. When I want to hold aggro so others can whip it's *** safely, I run the barb. Why is that so wrong?

Vindis - Dreamweaver

I agree with Redmenace's stance on claw toons. They work, but I personally don't find the idea attractive.

My barb is a str/vit build and he gains chi pretty well. He also has over twice as much hp as my main and he is only decked in tt90 gear, so basically he can't ever die because he has 3x as much p def as well and only 1k or 2k less m def due to +4/5 mag ornas. I have to troll pretty hard to die if I am getting decent heals.

Similarly, my archer is a pure dex sage. Sure he could be 5.0 with claws with just a -int cape, 99 ornas and some deicides, but I prefer the bow. If I was going to go aps, I would just make a sin and stash gear to him.

The common misconception that old style non-claw/aps build toons are not viable for farming is redundant now. Each class has its strengths and weaknesses and creating a good balance in a squad can make anything achievable. I actually plan to use my barb to help my lower geared friends farm Nirvy (Devour/Buffs) and Delta. Farming is less about your toon and more about who you are friends with.

_Ghoul_ - Lost City

just now i have 598 str working with the right stats and so exited and **** he so close to 600 str barb build wish is my main goal.

but still claw what is that b:shocked

DUBZZ - Archosaur

What has recently pissed me off is the last boss in AEU, the bird boss that keeps teleporting or w/e.
Well what happened is I was in a squad and we were killing the boss everything was fine until the boss teleported for the 2nd time. Once the boss teleported like half the group holy pathed to it, and quickly started dd'ing it without even giving the poor cleric enough time to gain chi to setup BB again. So like 4 people died and continued to **** at me cuz I didnt run in and grab aggro. At that point I just said *** it and raged on the squad cuz to me it was simple common sense and I refused to tick my hp charm when they should of waited like 10 sec for the cleric, as well as my mp charm just to buff them again. b:angry
Alot of new people that probably abused there toon by doing nothing and power leveling it are just str8 up fail and this game was no where as bad as it was like 1 year ago.

Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear

People who seem to think claws take away anything from the barb seem to be the new players who haven't learned their barb skills or their character. Claw barbs can still use every skill with the click of a button. A difference of 10% hp is nothing when comparing the survivability, versatility, and aggro ability to keep being the tank.

Just to Clarify: There are 3 major factors which differentiate the hp of a claw barb compared to a pure vit barb.

Factor 1: Stats
A Claw Barb will have 193+/200+ Dex While a pure vit barb will have 50~60 dex; which is a deficit of around 140 vitality for claw barbs. Hence, a fully buffed claw barb will have (140 vit * 17 hp per vit * 1.65) = roughly 4k less hp than a similar geared vit barb.

Factor 2: Sage/Demon Cultivation
Most claw barbs are demon barbs (with a few rare exceptions); while significant amount of vit-barbs choose to be sage barbs (especially for dedicated cata-barbs) with extra 10% hp in tiger form.

Factor 3: Money invested into Gears
To restast from a vit build to claws, a barb would have to invest significant amount into claws/fist and interval gears. A estimation of cost to restat to claws would be 200mil+/250mil+. For a pure vit barb, that same amount of money would be invested into better shards/refines for survivability, that would be roughly 2k to 4k (-+) more hp for the pure vit barb just through gears. (the actual amount is debatable depending on stashable gears or on how the money is spent in shards/gears/refines)

Hence, Combining all these factors together,
Comparing fully-buffed 'average' barbs, the estimated difference in hp would be roughly equivalent to 7k~10k Hp between a 'regular claw barb' and a 'regular vit barb'.

Although the sacrifice in hp is a steep price to pay to switch to claws (also applicable to pure strength barbs to a lesser extent), claw barbs, will have a better 'Growth' rate over time than the vit barb. Like Vindis said, vit barbs can farm their own gears with good friends/faction; but, the fact still that aps barbs would farm at a much 'faster rate' and more 'regularly' since its very easy for aps barbs to join fast-nirvana squads or solo/duo TT's. It would be a matter of a few months for a claw barb to get back their initial investment on aps weapons and -interval gears.

---

Going back to the original topic....

One of the things that I hate.... are sins who ask to 'TRADE BUFFS'. And when I buff them, they just leave squad and run off without giving me BP! b:angry

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Just to Clarify: There are 3 major factors which differentiate the hp of a claw barb compared to a pure vit barb.

Factor 1: Stats
A Claw Barb will have 193+/200+ Dex While a pure vit barb will have 50~60 dex; which is a deficit of around 140 vitality for claw barbs. Hence, a fully buffed claw barb will have (140 vit * 17 hp per vit * 1.65) = roughly 4k less hp than a similar geared vit barb.

Factor 2: Sage/Demon Cultivation
Most claw barbs are demon barbs (with a few rare exceptions); while significant amount of vit-barbs choose to be sage barbs (especially for dedicated cata-barbs) with extra 10% hp in tiger form.

Factor 3: Money invested into Gears
To restast from a vit build to claws, a barb would have to invest significant amount into claws/fist and interval gears. A estimation of cost to restat to claws would be 200mil+/250mil+. For a pure vit barb, that same amount of money would be invested into better shards/refines for survivability, that would be roughly 2k to 4k (-+) more hp for the pure vit barb just through gears. (the actual amount is debatable depending on stashable gears or on how the money is spent in shards/gears/refines)

Hence, Combining all these factors together,
Comparing fully-buffed 'average' barbs, the estimated difference in hp would be roughly equivalent to 7k~10k Hp between a 'regular claw barb' and a 'regular vit barb'.


Although the sacrifice in hp is a steep price to pay to switch to claws (also applicable to pure strength barbs to a lesser extent), claw barbs, will have a better 'Growth' rate over time than the vit barb. Like Vindis said, vit barbs can farm their own gears with good friends/faction; but, the fact still that aps barbs would farm at a much 'faster rate' and more 'regularly' since its very easy for aps barbs to join fast-nirvana squads or solo/duo TT's. It would be a matter of a few months for a claw barb to get back their initial investment on aps weapons and -interval gears.

---

Going back to the original topic....

One of the things that I hate.... are sins who ask to 'TRADE BUFFS'. And when I buff them, they just leave squad and run off without giving me BP! b:angry

Good analysis, Mag.

Each build does have its benefits, and I'm not denying that. Just the aversion to claw barbs (especially in pve) is kind of silly when you already have way more defense and hp than you will ever need, claw or vit. And acting like it takes things away from being a barb is silly.

This convo has been discussed a million times, anyways. Just wanted to defend against the anti-dd/anti-claw barb statements. I think damage becomes a priority for aggro once FR starts failing, and aggro is what makes a tank. I get my survivability from skill more than from stats, but damage output is harder to come by so I stat to optimize my barb.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Just to Clarify: There are 3 major factors which differentiate the hp of a claw barb compared to a pure vit barb.

Factor 1: Stats
A Claw Barb will have 193+/200+ Dex While a pure vit barb will have 50~60 dex; which is a deficit of around 140 vitality for claw barbs. Hence, a fully buffed claw barb will have (140 vit * 17 hp per vit * 1.65) = roughly 4k less hp than a similar geared vit barb.

100% agree on this

Factor 2: Sage/Demon Cultivation
Most claw barbs are demon barbs (with a few rare exceptions); while significant amount of vit-barbs choose to be sage barbs (especially for dedicated cata-barbs) with extra 10% hp in tiger form.

Eh imo demon is just flat out better for barbs outside of cata pulling but thats just me, 4.4k there

Factor 3: Money invested into Gears
To restast from a vit build to claws, a barb would have to invest significant amount into claws/fist and interval gears. A estimation of cost to restat to claws would be 200mil+/250mil+. For a pure vit barb, that same amount of money would be invested into better shards/refines for survivability, that would be roughly 2k to 4k (-+) more hp for the pure vit barb just through gears. (the actual amount is debatable depending on stashable gears or on how the money is spent in shards/gears/refines)

Ok you lost me here, a players bad choices are not a drawback to a build in any form or fashion even if the barb in question goes full g 15/16 vana, r8 recast, or rank 9 up to half of the set is still useable at the same refine in aps gear and the cost for 2x tt 99 is less than 2x dragon orb oceans, so unless the player has capped gear at w/e the new map is called gear theres really no way I can actually fit a 2k hp differance in here short of a demon to sage culti swap and total skill rebuild/tome. Even then, bad choices =/= build drawbacks again

Hence, Combining all these factors together,
Comparing fully-buffed 'average' barbs, the estimated difference in hp would be roughly equivalent to 3-5k hp between a 'regular claw barb' and a 'regular vit barb'.

Seriously my barbs currently in tt 99 HA/LA mixed armor with TT vana pants and an OHT hat with immac shards. 21k hp in tiger form as a demon.

current build with gear taken off a bm, not ideal at all for a barb
http://pwcalc.com/14a2af50b3674d0d

dropped tt 99 belt for 4th OHT and LA for similarly priced HA upgraded all gear to g 16 vana with g 15 S strike axes, with no +10's estimated cost is 450 mill over aps build, can be lowered to 250 by changing to slaying level axes however that removes any pvp viability.
http://pwcalc.com/63915ac0f124e613

HA build has 7k more hp and higher phys and mag def, aps barb can easily gear up a BM for 0 cost and a sin for the 250 mill it has left over giving it 3x the farming potential or chose to invest in the reputation for rank 9 with roughly 100 mill left over for merchanting and still have a 100 bm as well. OFC the vit barb is going to have one HELL of a time farming that gear and getting it all max stat. We're talking months if not a year + difference in farming time.

(edit: dropped cape and refines to +5 taking about 200 mill off pure vit barb build http://pwcalc.com/8b1ece77481527a7)

IMO by the strengths and weaknesses of each culti/build

Demon full axe vit or STR with some dex (100ish) for ACC for map pvp
Sage full vit for catta pulling (only if you have a very deep wallet)
Demon aps for farming at low investment and for pvp/pve balance after rank 9 in most roles with the exception of catta puller.
Demon/sage/whatever build for 99% of pve because its stupidly easy (demon will kill faster and hold more aggro sage will live longer if your poor however the restat is gonna cost ya)

TL:DR- the pre endgame hp change is low however the defense loss is abysmal and you will rely far more on invoke/frighten/solid shield unless you refine your rings highly. At endgame all barb builds use rank 9 so nobody gives a **** about 4k hp.

Sir_comsizer - Archosaur

What annoys me is, as a barb now for a while, i'll tell people what i'm doing so they know how to play & what skills to use, yet all they give a *** about is just getting exp & as high as possible. Then when they DO *** up & die, they blame everyone else!!

Moranine - Lost City

1. When Seekers try to pull mobs, then die and blame me.

2. When Cleric's metal mage more then heal, especially when I am at half HP.

3. When Cleric's AoE heal on a boss that doesn't aoe.

4. When BMs don't dragon during a big pull.

5. When people don't listen to me.

6. When people die, because of the above mentioned.

Colum - Raging Tide

When I get asked about gear when we are doing Snakefist

I have completed each Snakefist BH with TT 90/99. Gtfo.

VKnightV - Lost City

Alot of new people that probably abused there toon by doing nothing and power leveling it are just str8 up fail and this game was no where as bad as it was like 1 year ago.[/QUOTE]


sorry but this year is much better then one year ago now we are seeing balance at last after so many fail fail expension.


yes balance with so many fail ff ppl but still classes are getting what they needed talking of old classes bosses becoming bosses again.

dont blame stupid comunity on the update now b:angry

Hazarduz - Heavens Tear

What really pisses me off is this elitist mentality everyone seems to have these days.....


OMG! Ur gears not all +10!!b:shocked U failz! (Yeah like anyone really needs +10 anything to be able to do a particular instance. My gear s all +4/+5+/+6 and I manage to do metal despite being a demon barb with 16k HP.

OMG! U not hav 1000k HP, u cant do Lunar/BH/TT/ w/e.

OMG! U havent done this instance before? Ur a noob, GTFO.

OMG! This squad fail! Taking too long! (No ones died because squad being careful, but we still a fail squad apparently.)

People just want to race through eveything now. No one actually takes the time to learn an instance or find new solutions or alternate ways to achieve something. No onw wants to take the time to teach people how to do stuff anymore.

I ROFL so hard when I see shouts of people wanting a 90+ for killing polearm (coz apparently the barb they got was a fail barb). I remember tanking polearm at 63 coz someone in faction needed it. (And Im talking from way back when beofore genies were invented. Yes, we wiped like 4 times to do it, but it was one of the most fun runs Ive had in thius game).

LaYsDiL - Harshlands

When pulling groups of mobs in fc...noobs blame it on me and dont believe that barbs lose arrgo when somone aoes

_Ghoul_ - Lost City

[
OMG! Ur gears not all +10!!b:shocked U failz! (Yeah like anyone really needs +10 anything to be able to do a particular instance. My gear s all +4/+5+/+6 and I manage to do metal despite being a demon barb with 16k HP.

lol i done ws bh at 11k in tiger sure i poted a lil bit used genie but i keept agro and tanked boss. i was more worried about how slow or fast the boss would take so less pot genie erc.

OMG! This squad fail! Taking too long! (No ones died because squad being careful, but we still a fail squad apparently.)

i like slow bh party like gv cos it take effort and can be fun think damn we almost failed


I ROFL so hard when I see shouts of people wanting a 90+ for killing polearm (coz apparently the barb they got was a fail barb). I remember tanking polearm at 63 coz someone in faction needed it. (And Im talking from way back when beofore genies were invented. Yes, we wiped like 4 times to do it, but it was one of the most fun runs Ive had in thius game).[/QUOTE]

i remember the 1st time i faced pole i was LA fist barb i tho i could tank boss and even tho i hade ton of hp i was killed in a matter of secunds. i hope boss never change cos its a real boss and we need more liek him.

Hazarduz - Heavens Tear

Another example of what pisses me off.......

BH Abba, decent squad, cleared to boss. Last couple of mobs just cleared. Only boss left.

I see cleric in the back has already jumped into BB, and everyone seems ready for boss.

Now Im at around 60% HP. Granted I could lure the boss right away and everything *should* be ok, but why risk it? So I run back to BB, wait to charge up to 100%% HP and then run off to grab boss.

Sin, ofc being a sin cant wait and while Im running back to BB has decided to go pull the boss, without saying anything to anyone. He runs off and attacks boss. Im monitoring my HP bar at this time, so by the time I realise what just happened, run to boss and cast ream, sin is already dead.b:bye

Fun so far right? Gets better.....

Now single cleric is already in BB, all itd take to get sin a res is for me to ensure aggro with roar+ream then invoke, cleric drops out of BB, resses him, pops BB back up and we good to go again.

Will he wait for it? NOOOOOOOO! The bugger goes to town. Now the whole party is slowed down (we are essentially a 5 man sqd now), and by the time he comes back the boss is almost dead.

So all in all, did the boss die any faster with all the rushing? Not at all, took a lot longer than it would have had people only learnt the value of patience.

lovedbymonkeys

apologies if someone posted this already and I missed it, but hate when i log on, cue fac/pink spam "come tank [whatever]"

along the same lines;
"hey, you busy?"
"yeah, doing a quest/daily/merching whatever"
"come [whatever], we need tank"
*invite sent before i reply

I get that we're the tanking class, but that don't mean we don't have our own stuff to do

Colum - Raging Tide

" I dont use roar it's low lvl "

Yeah and then you die because DDs cant DD and healer cant heal. -.-

Kalmiah - Raging Tide

" WHY U DONT KEEP AGGRO???!!!? "

From 5 aps sins in BH metal while you are turned into frog when you are trying to complete vile... Yeah, very easy to get aggro back if you took it right before the change happened and Alpha Male is on cd -__-''

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Kalmiah - Raging Tide wrote: »

" WHY U DONT KEEP AGGRO???!!!? "

From 5 aps sins in BH metal while you are turned into frog when you are trying to complete vile... Yeah, very easy to get aggro back if you took it right before the change happened and Alpha Male is on cd -__-''

Same thing from archers who barrage ~while you are pulling!~

mrcharlyplustwo

Me "Can I have a heal please."

Cleric "I can't heal you because you are out of range."

erm, I'm tanking and holding aggro, so all those arcane DD don't get owned, wtf do you think I should be doing? Pulling the mob over closer to everyone else?

Colum - Raging Tide

Barbs dont get in nirvies.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Colum - Raging Tide wrote: »

Barbs dont get in nirvies.

Actually...especially in a full squad of DDs (or event just 4 DDs) Devour is particularly efficient.

Quick story:

My BM
5.0 +6 Deicide BM
4.0 Demon Sin (+7ish)
5.0 Demon Sin (+7ish)
3.33 Sage Sin (+6ish)
5.0 Demon Sin (+10ish?)

vs

My BM
5.0 +6 Deicide BM
4.0 Demon Sin (+7ish)
Typical Demon Barb (Demon Devour)
3.33 Sage Sin (+6ish)
5.0 Demon Sin (+10ish?)

We timed the runs - we did 9 with the first setup, and about 11 with the second. The runs with the Barb were faster.

What I've discovered in running weird nirvvys, is full squad of Phys attackers (or at least 4), Devour is extremely efficient, and if anything seemingly more efficient than another 5.0.

However, in groups of 4 or less, the 5.0 is more efficient.

Find a cleric/mystic and go to town with 3-4 APS people. Heck you can replace 1-2 of those with a well powered range DD. Seekers are great too for QPQ trick and if you have a nuker there. Aggro is never an issue if one of the APS people is OP or really good, and they well benefit from devour in terms of damage = aggro.

If you think about it, mixed squads of 6 should do runs in 15 minutes or less counting getting back in. Thats minimum 4 runs an hour. Average of 6 Cannies 2 Raps a round. It's like 3.33m an hour each person. Thats not bad and better than sitting around moping like I see many, many people do. It's no big deal, get 3-5 buddies and go at it! As long as you do 15 minute or less rounds its good money.

Even better money is TT if the squad is smart about it and drops aren't bad. I was estimating about 5-7m an hour depending on the luck of drops.

_Mg_Zr - Heavens Tear

Thing that **** me off are.
Your a barb why are you dding (when im on my claw barb and i have aggro over the sins)
Use roar already (just after i use roar)
and my personal favourite
haha you suck as a barb you cant hold aggro, coming from the 4 aps r9 +12 sin with dot shards

Colum - Raging Tide

Yea but the thing is, people dont inv u in nirvy. They rather get demon veno and try their luck with armor break.

Jaabg - Sanctuary

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

We timed the runs - we did 9 with the first setup, and about 11 with the second. The runs with the Barb were faster.

Colum - Raging Tide wrote: »

Yea but the thing is, people dont inv u in nirvy. They rather get demon veno and try their luck with armor break.

Both of you are true, but if you have both barb and veno. That run will be fast. When we do a 3 person squad, run takes 12 minutes for the whole thing, but once the barb and veno alts are lvled, the run will be faster. Amp+purge+devour, and 4 dd's with g15/g16, 4~5 aps, with +10 = fast run.

I noticed this long time back, nirvana requires either 2~4 good dd's (+10 or higher weapon refine) or 5~6 bad dd's(+6 or lower weapon refines) with good timing and debuffs, the squad runs are of equal time.

Biggest time loss for any squad is the trip back and forth from rt, repairs, people going afk quick. Alts just make it longer slightly because you have to drag them along as well and get the macros to work.

There is one barb i ran with, demon, claw barb, used gorenox vanity, and i never got agro from him the whole run, other people had issues to, he really knew how to play that barb.

If there is good dd, you can have 1~2 members as archers (blood vow, helps not necessary), seeker (debuffs are just op), mystic (OP dd and reduces damage), psy, wizzy (with a timed hf, can take down 300k~700k hp in one hit b:dirty). I always find those runs to be more fun.

I remember how a year ago, the best vana team was 4 sins-2 bm. Now it is 3~4 sins, 1 veno, 1~2 bm. Once bloodvow cool down is changed, replace a bm/sin with archer b:chuckle.

But for me, as long as everyone has fun on the run and time vanishes, it is a good run.

MrSyko - Raging Tide

When I do full Pavilion pulls in Warsong and everybody dies b:cry

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

MrSyko - Raging Tide wrote: »

When I do full Pavilion pulls in Warsong and everybody dies b:cry

Have had this problem, too. I try to prove something as an aps barb by doing the same pulls our catabarbs (r9 full vit/JoSD) where you run to the the last group before the boss and invoke then the cleric follows with bb. The point is then actually keeping aggro as a high dd barb when catabarbs usually have aggro for about 2 seconds and "tanked the pull" lol. The problem is any more than 2 groups and most dd's die from the aoe damage.

Makes me look bad that dd's die from aoe damage when outside of bubble even thought they're not being directly attacked.

Jaabg - Sanctuary wrote: »

There is one barb i ran with, demon, claw barb, used gorenox vanity, and i never got agro from him the whole run, other people had issues to, he really knew how to play that barb.

If there is good dd, you can have 1~2 members as archers (blood vow, helps not necessary), seeker (debuffs are just op), mystic (OP dd and reduces damage), psy, wizzy (with a timed hf, can take down 300k~700k hp in one hit b:dirty). I always find those runs to be more fun.

I remember how a year ago, the best vana team was 4 sins-2 bm. Now it is 3~4 sins, 1 veno, 1~2 bm. Once bloodvow cool down is changed, replace a bm/sin with archer b:chuckle.

I... dislike Bloodvow. I mean, it's a great skill but people are stoopid enough to think BV is like 30 second HF. It uses the same 'Curse' icon as HF, but the effect is 25% instead of 100%. So a 9 second HF increases damage more than the full 30 seconds of BV, and even further when applied with other buffs.

BV fits well when there is 1 BM HFing (and can fit in partially with 2 BMs HFing). Beyond that, there really isn't much of a point in it. Its a weaker increase in damage than a veno's amp, but it has a 10m cooldown. Soon it will have a 3min cooldown but with only half the Vana bosses being cursable anyways that's still not super useful.

I think I know the barb you're talking about (+12 GVs and a good barb). I don't mind a vit barb in Vana but I don't find them particularly useful. They have 4 main purposes: their buffs, their devour, demon titan's crit boost, and their damage. A sage barb will have the better titans, a demon the better devour, titans crit, and damage. Unfortunately you rarely get a barb thats the whole package. You can get the barb buff outside the squad. Most barbs don't titan buff right before bosses (or have sins that want to PD), and most chose to either DD or devour, not both. I prefer to titans right after teleport, run to boss in tigerform and devour, then stand and triple spark for 15 seconds, then PA debuff every 10 seconds after but most bosses are gone in 15 seconds.

Anyway, if you get the barb buffs outside of squad then the veno + amp is a better option unless they have great aps dd, in which they can replace having a 3rd sin or a second bm. Not hating on barbs, theirs just too many aps barbs that forget their actual skills and too many vit barbs that provide nothing for dd or try to dd and don't debuff (lol).