So Barbarians what pisses you off or just makes you leave when in a squad?

HeavenzWrath - Raging Tide wrote: »

Again HrunsPanda, ur the barb all DD's love and enjoy cuz u just become the buffer and devourer all sins love. In a sense in some situations that might be ok but in most i have seen, its not. Me when i am tanking i feel out of place in tiger form just using devour for some1 else to tank. What pisses me off in squads, as this topic of thread is about, is me not being able to do my job as tanking. I dont just move over for sins and all love me. I could care less if sins or any DD love (specifically sins,bms) cuz magic classes could care less. All im saying is, barbs are push overs now cuz of ppl with tht mind set. Sure it get annoying fighting for aggro, but my thought is how can you be in tiger form and not have aggro, just doesnt seem right. But i guess im old fashion and fighting aps is an impposible war to beat. This is a pointless debate of things, but frankly yes i understand if some1 dont have chi at the end of tht boss, and me btw keep aggro vs aps sins and then use npc for chi and i still get yippy yays at the end! If you dont get some at times then thats sad. I say keep to ur class, if not and u want to buff and debuff bosses, play a diff class. Imo barbs should be more like me. I do fast FC runs with keeping aggro vs aps sins/bms so its all to the beholder. In all honesty if ur just there to devour, play a DD class, cuz while a sin/bm is tanking its more like why are u there? To buff? Devour? Barbs are a dead class cuz of mind sets like that. All ur there for are for buffs. Barbs, do ur job!

dont give up on ur role ppl liek us who just play barb no more alt know what the barb is really about.

might i suggest u scrap ur vit for idk more str ill would suggest 500+
and i am not saying that will magically give u agro from best aps but it will help generate more agro enough to keep agro.

do not read saka or saku he full of cash shopper ****.

he prolly never run with regular party just +12 r9 josd rich ppl so dont take his hate letter to heart he a fail troll.
ooh and a vit build fail to that no wonder he never show he barb icon only his bm cos its prolly patetic.

Colum - Raging Tide wrote: »

Am I the only barb who has no trouble getting chi even I dont have chi skills on genie or Master Li's Technique? (Demon barb)

Bestial rage helps loads and if you struggle with chi you can always use alacrity/surf impact/frighten between your chi skills.

No your not, i tried out some Combos with Axes in TT
was able to almost perma Spark with Bestial rage / Slam and other skills : 1aps

<- Demon barb also.
really helps if you have Demon BKI- that 35 chi with short cool-down is a god send.

Colum - Raging Tide wrote: »

" Barb doesnt need charm in FWS "

... <.< all don't have perfect gear for that instance FFS

For me its the opposite. "Omg, you're a barb. Why are you not charmed?"

My barb is almost never charmed but alot people, especially clerics, seem to think you should be charmed if you want to do TT 3-x or Lunar.

Just pull what you can handle, and preferably run with a squad that knows what they're doing. Cleric's that know how to stack before a pull, or don't chromatic heal a squad when the barb has the aggro of all 25 mobs. BMs that know how to stun a squad. Etc...

For Warsong the most important thing is mdef. I see alot of barbs fail trying to pull with physical ornies or physical capes.

Colum - Raging Tide wrote: »

I have elemental ornaments and got almost 7k mag def buffed at the moment, HP 18,5k and phys def somewhat over 20.. Bosses I maybe could handle without charm though it seems either clerics' heals aren't strong enough to fill my HP bar (and yes on top of that I use crabs and apoth) or then I am just **** something..

Biggest problem is pulls. I can do a pull of 3-4 groups, in metal full pull. It feels like the squad is too slow. I've thought of pulling without holy path but it would most likely slow me down too much especially in earth pav and eh.. yeah. Most of squad comes too late so I need a charm to keep myself alive, at times apothecary too.

My Bm actually has a much easier time pulling Warsong than my barb and yesterday I saw a psychic that could kick both their butts. The magic marrow and anti-stun really help in WS, as well as being able to stun some groups so the cleric can get up bb.

I never use Holy Path. I removed it from genie. My barbs fast enough that adding another few m/s only goes to reset mobs. I know alot of barbs like to get out passed mobs and dodge rather than tank, but they out distance their healers too and thats bad. I switched it out for solid shield.

So metal pull (in full warsong after the pavs are cleared). I run to the last group then turn around and go invoke in the "L" bend between the boss and the pagoda. Doubling back towards the group gives them a chance to catch up. Invoke with you nose in the corner and it should group all mobs in roar range and make a nice place for your cleric to bb.

Earth i do in two pulls because its long and tangly and I'll just lose mobs. I ask for a stack, start in human, and use Violant Triumph. Trying to count in my head how many mob groups three is and I tihnk its 4 in the first pull. I have to use a vac when my skill wears off. I had to the open area where there are 2 walkers and invoke in there. BM should stun, especially if I grouped right. Roar, sunder, kill. The rest to the boss. I usually will get frozen one time on the way but take little damage before I can move again. I say something like "all the way to the boss" so the cleric doesn't try healing just because I stoppped moving.

Fire. Take out the first mob group and the next 3. Now all the rest can be pulled to the corner by the boss without rubbing off or catching on bends. This is prolly the most squad based pull. A good cleric or bm really really helps. Pull to the corner, invoke (AD to invoke and roar might be needed to prevent channel interupting) and hopefully your BM stuns. The mobs have a very weak aoe but are largely single target. Still, some cleric see the 300 damage attacks on the squad as something they should chromatic. The good ones IH you a few times, chromatic, IH, IH, chromatic, IH, IH, chromatic...

Wood and water are just a pain. Easier to ask a caster to pull, honestly. Or a BM that can magic marrow and anti-stun through the bubbles. Careful with the... floating, standing, jester guys. They extreme poison you. My BM and sin have basically been one shot by those guys with 14k damage attacks out of nowhere. 1k, 1.5k, 800 damage...14k, dead.

As for the bosses, my best advice is constant Frighten and rotate solid shield and invoke as you need. Prolly what you're doing, but I'm not really sure for tiger barbs. Warsong is definitely a place where I think the aps barb has an edge. While a cleric bubble will heal about 3.5k hp every 3 seconds, my paint heals are about 3x that much. So my aps barb gets about 16k heals every 3 seconds plus bb damage reduction while a vit build gets 3.5k heals every 3 seconds plus bb damage reduction. I also always have chi for invoke or whatever. Usually if I need more heals I Extreme Poison and get 20% more hp and the boss dies 20% quicker.


After writing...a guide, I think I should add "this annoys me." Its squadmates who can't pot, and therefore need cleric attention and heals instead of the barb. For instance Fire pav, where a single hp pot is enough for most people to survive the aoe. Instead, the cleric spams chromatic heal for the squad and doesn't give enough heal to the barb who is taking 10x the damage of anyone else. I keep aggro, you heal me. If you want to heal everyone then I'll share the aggro.

In Seat the other day I started clearing without a cleric and had an archer tag along. I was tanking everything but he was getting frog aoe. So I watched his hp 55%...45%...40%.... Wondering should I grab more? Why not, he can ToP, pot, or just stand back. I grab more and watch his hp 35%, 30%, 20%... Alright, well he probably wont attack anymore and he's a long ways away. I grab more mobs and frogs and he comes running in 20%... 10%...5%... dead. Never even made an attempt to heal himself. Had plenty of time. Breaks in between the mobs. I was fine soloing. Just refused to self heal.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

For me its the opposite. "Omg, you're a barb. Why are you not charmed?"

My barb is almost never charmed but alot people, especially clerics, seem to think you should be charmed if you want to do TT 3-x or Lunar.

Just pull what you can handle, and preferably run with a squad that knows what they're doing. Cleric's that know how to stack before a pull, or don't chromatic heal a squad when the barb has the aggro of all 25 mobs. BMs that know how to stun a squad. Etc...

For Warsong the most important thing is mdef. I see alot of barbs fail trying to pull with physical ornies or physical capes.

I have a charm, but I don't rely on it, it's nice to have, but on the downside, it makes kids think you are invincible and don't need a healer, and the player lazy unless they have discipline, if i can, i arm myself with charm, crabs, best gear i can afford, and hopefully a good squad (most of the time I get at least ONE kid in it who thinks bloodpaint and crits are all that matters ._.)

For example i started up a FCC (yes I know, FCC again. its not the only thing I do, really!) got a good couple friends who are long-timers, then we got these kids who were all about crits, expecting me to care. No cleric.

So we buff up. I do first pull, because I can, i use pots and let the charm tick whatever the pots don't heal, and all the way through they talk as though it was all them who were doing the work (other was a seeker) so brag, brag, brag, then they go "u got a charm!" when i refuse to do the mag mob pull to shade without a healer (i can do it with a healer right now) so we opt to do it half pulls.

Bishop boss, they keep on about how i should be glad to have them. I like a squad effort, but I despise bragging kids.

So, when we get to bishop, one of us asks their ages. 11 and 13. I facepalm.

Then one of my friends brings their alt mystic in, she saves our butts as the kids run off.

Who do they credit for my tanking and her heal support? The SEEKER.

Although the run went without a squad wipe. I hate running with underage kids ._.

Also:

Thanks for the guide, it'll help me when i get there too!

When i get in a squad, they rush in, get killed then try to blame the barb for not buffing, even though they were told to wait -,-

when they think they can do a barbs job & tank, then die ( that one is actually funny )


and why does my avatar show lvl 101, yet my avatar when posting say 100? -,-

Colum - Raging Tide wrote: »

People who find it amusing to tell us barbs we are useless, we can be replaced and only job for us is buffs blah blah blah..

Yes, this. I don't want to be told my only toon is useless. I know aggro is tough at end-game levels, but i sure as hell am not replaceable or useless, i can do other means in a squad too, than just buffing.

people blaming for from something that is the clerics flat

i rather be kicked than leave.

i love random squads,i like to see the outcome even if its a fail set up.

Colum - Raging Tide wrote: »

!FAIL! aps barbs in squad who wanna be cool, rush ahead and kill themselves in capti boss then cry why didnt I aggro when they engaged the boss before cleric had even purified the ones with the HP reduce debuff... ><

EDIT: I did it for u (:

Colum - Raging Tide wrote: »

yea i know theres good aps barbs too but meh dont see a reason to specify the fail there, there are good and bad players in all builds

So true, actually I guess it's too hard for some ppl to sit down a while and try to figure out how their Build works. Fail often means just lazy.

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I generally don't run with aps barbs unless they're friends/guildies, not because of their skill (or lack thereof) per se but because I disagree with the build for other reasons.

Regarding charms... lol. I burned through two bronze charms last time I did a full RB on my barb, and that was only on w3, w9 and the final boss. I'm pretty sure I'd be broke if I tried to keep my barb charmed full-time. o.O

I really don't want to turn this into an aps debate but why would you not run with a person just because you disagree with their build? That's like not running with a bm because they don't have enough dex, or an veno because they statted vit. As long as they get the job done, and aps barbs tend to be much more efficient and better aggro holders anyways, then it shouldn't be a problem.

Personally, I'd have just whispered the cleric "follow me" and pulled ahead of the sins in one big pull. The problem comes from clerics that stop to heal the dd so the rest of the squad stops because they don't want to pull without a cleric and the dd's are pulling 1-2 mobs at a time.

One thing that made me lol, facepalm, and give up on PWI in general the other day was there was a crowded post "BH Metal LF cleric,tank,bm,sin,and DD!" I didn't see the word tank, but saw all the dd spots so I whispered "aps barb" to let them know I can dd, too. They whispered "can you tank?" Had to lol. I thought pwi had outgrown that aps barbs are squishy stigma years ago. I myself haven't been asked if I could tank xxxxx instance for a long time. 22k hp and 5 aps barb. Gimme paint and I can solo. Want me or not?

The debate on whether "fail" needed to be editted into Columns "aps barbs who rush in and aggro bosses without waiting for another barb to take aggro or a cleric." I agree that 'fail' should be added in. Any half-assed decent barb that has an iota of common sense could do that no problem. Well, not vit barbs. But any aps barb shouldn't have had a problem with that so only fail barbs should have a problem.

Oh, and I stopped using charms in Delta when I got 14k+ hp. Just recently I stopped bothering to use invoke, too.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

I really don't want to turn this into an aps debate but why would you not run with a person just because you disagree with their build? That's like not running with a bm because they don't have enough dex, or an veno because they statted vit. As long as they get the job done, and aps barbs tend to be much more efficient and better aggro holders anyways, then it shouldn't be a problem.

Personally, I'd have just whispered the cleric "follow me" and pulled ahead of the sins in one big pull. The problem comes from clerics that stop to heal the dd so the rest of the squad stops because they don't want to pull without a cleric and the dd's are pulling 1-2 mobs at a time.

One thing that made me lol, facepalm, and give up on PWI in general the other day was there was a crowded post "BH Metal LF cleric,tank,bm,sin,and DD!" I didn't see the word tank, but saw all the dd spots so I whispered "aps barb" to let them know I can dd, too. They whispered "can you tank?" Had to lol. I thought pwi had outgrown that aps barbs are squishy stigma years ago. I myself haven't been asked if I could tank xxxxx instance for a long time. 22k hp and 5 aps barb. Gimme paint and I can solo. Want me or not?

The debate on whether "fail" needed to be editted into Columns "aps barbs who rush in and aggro bosses without waiting for another barb to take aggro or a cleric." I agree that 'fail' should be added in. Any half-assed decent barb that has an iota of common sense could do that no problem. Well, not vit barbs. But any aps barb shouldn't have had a problem with that so only fail barbs should have a problem.

Oh, and I stopped using charms in Delta when I got 14k+ hp. Just recently I stopped bothering to use invoke, too.

So True, I havn't even used a charm in delta when my Aps Babr was under 14k HP, delta is way too easy if done right =P well nvm, I agree so bad with this. Last Full ws I charmlessly soloed all WS Bosses! with the exception of the last. I was just full buffed with BP and used Solid Shield, Pots, ToP, Apo Stuff aso, but I did it. Just try that even full max geared Vit barbs and I promise you they will go down soon or later.

I guess I'm just lucky that I play on an undercrowded Server, though I am an aps barb, I still got the 5th highest HP on the server barb wise, so I don't really have trouble getting into squads or forming my own squads.

The only wrong or fail Build in this game is the one whose player fail. That's it. Even saw some aps venos own big time for example.

APS Barb is not Wrong. So are none of the other Builds. Like I said the palyers may be fail, but the build is not.

If you got 200 vit on your cleric and still hold a +12 r9rerecast weapon then no ones gives a damn about the less MP.

I for one am full +10 gear-wise and can tank any instance better then most barbs even without using my damn fists. That's because I'm playing this game for 4 years and actually worked out strategys for any possible instance. I know exactly what to do in what situation. You can apply this on any other build.

If you are a good player and got some exp then it doesn't matter what build u play. I instantly leave the squad if someone's going to tell me that my APS-barb is fail just because the fact that I am an aps barb, no matter what I'm capable of. To have the freedom of palying a class the way you want it is a main reason why this game became so good and popular in the first place.

One thing is true tho. Build Like Aps Barbs and Venos are a no go for inexperienced players. You need quite some skill to perform this builds decently. Thats the problem.

EDIT: Playing APS barb is like playing Hard Mode for the Barb. Just liek Dante Must Die in DMC if you know what I mean =P I did my first delta on this barb with 12k Phys def and 13k HP in Tiger form...charmless and well I did it without one death. wanna see most regular Barb do this.

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Also wishing not to turn this into an aps debate... let me put it to you this way.

Would you give that cleric 280+ strength, put her in heavy armor and have her weild a poleaxe? Probably not (unless you have your heart set on pretending you're a D&D cleric XD). Obviously, this build is not terribly functional in addition to being silly design-wise. To me, aps barbs (and aps archers) fall into the same category. The fact that the build is technically functional or even good doesn't change the fact that barbs weren't designed to use fists as a primary weapon, and it just speaks to poor game design when a non-designed weapon works technically better than the designed one.

Does that mean I won't take a barb who has a fist weapon? No, but it'd be great if they could use their axe instead. I'd much rather see a barb actually act like a barb, even if they've only got 13k HP. I'm not gonna fault anyone for not being pure vit. :P

As far as skill goes... well, I'm sure you could play that axe cleric competently enough if you had the skill to do it, too. :P Hell, why not an axe wizard or psychic? To be honest, if I saw an endgame axe wizard I'd have to stop and compliment them on doing something so crazy. But then I'd have to ask them how the build works out for them.

There is nothing wrong with the aps barb build, adding more dex for accuracy and crit is a thing a normal barb can do also but the other examples u mentioned are definately not normal b:bye