Nation War, More than 20 vs 20

i think i lost a lot of my brain cell of this nub archer Kiyoshi .

r9 dont necesery mean the player know a thing about gameplay and worse becouse even worse cos a r8 player would have to need to play better then a r9 player becouse of gear difference.

now to explain why a r9 player would have more merit to take lead position then a r8 player.

cos we all know we will meet r9 op player in the oponent side so if a +10++ r9 player was to give me order i woudl think he woudl be able to pk the oponent r9 player then a lower geared player.

so i would take advice and listen just so i know i have back up against r9 players.


a singel r9 player is still better then no r9 players vs idk how many r9 i would face on the oposide side.

see bh100 is always welcoem with barb but nw we always want a r9 to help vs other r9.



i always say to myself r9 should be fighting other r9.....

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Just cause I have r9... doesn't mean I want to be a leader among sheep. That aside... just how many r8s out there are willing or even capable of following my commands?
Oh no, not YOU. Lol, I'm sorry I wasn't clear man, it was rethorical, this was a thing for us flower power carebears, you know, people who actually respect each other. No, you go do your thing and get all your friends in the same battle and make it a 20 full minutes of spawn camping or PK'ing your alts or whatever is it you guys do. Whatever side you're on it isn't going to make a difference for the rest of us, so no problem, you go ahead and do your thing.
I don't blame nubs when I die... I blame nubs when they die.

U b pro b:victory

http://imageshack.us/a/img690/5256/trapped.png~Week before last week

http://imageshack.us/f/685/trappedagain.png/~Last week

Nuff said. This is happening every Nation Wars now! Please do something about this!

If enemies keep doing this and win the land we can't go to it/attack it for 3 minutes! AKA trapped completely.

I'm not saying this as a "remove alt's from NW" statement. I'm saying this as a "dirty/cheating strategy" nations are trying to do and stopping people from having fun/profiting.

FuzzyWuzz wrote: »

Or perhaps panda wonders if it is the most effective strategy and is only no fun when you are on the receiving end of it? b:shutup

Of course it's not fun being completely land locked for 20minutes. This is a game, most game's are meant to be fun. Can't have fun if you're starring at your screen trying to get your "running man" to join into a fight, only to be sent back to base.b:bye

WHY JUST DONT GO 80 VS 80 SO EVERYONE LAG b:chuckle AND WE CUT OFF TW AND PUT THIS ALL DAYS b:shutup

The worst thing about NW is trying to get your whole squad into the same battle. I have done all NW's since the add-on and been in squad everytime and still have never gotten more then 3 of my squad members into the same battle because it fills up way to fast with pieces of other squads. Would be nice if squad leader picks a territory's and it warps the whole squad to that territory, other wise whats the point of having a squad?

Next thing that bugs the **** outta lots of people is when your trying to type in chat to your squad members and the game keeps interrupting you when your typing. Its hard enough already to orchestrate a battle tactic, so please fix this to make communication a little easier for us all.

Next, why your token prize also depends on how well your nation does is far past me, i cannot understand why this would matter much to how many tokens you get. Each week in NW I score VERY high with personal credits for my hard work but in the end get beat down with my token prize because my nation never comes in first place, even tho i rock the hell outta NW I still have to count on a bunch of numb nuts to pull their own weight? There's really no way to talk to your whole nation in order to orchestrate any type of battle plans other then world chat and most people don't even look at that while busy.

And last but not least...who taught PWI how to play capture the flag? I know it wasn't me because I know in "Capture the Flag" when someone carry's the flag and is killed the flag is dropped and the person who earned the right to have the flag gets to pick it up and go their marry old way with it. The flag should not reset, it should simply be dropped @ the current spot of flag carriers death so the person(s) who killed the carrier get the flag. But if the flag is not picked up with-in lets say 10-20 seconds then it should reset., but not reset upon death. I've personally have never played capture the flag in the manner NW has it being played.

But I guess I'll wrap this up saying I feel that some more thought needs to be put into NW rather then just throwing it together as if it's in the "Beta Stage" or sumtin.
Other then that i love the concept of NW, just some things need to be changed/fixed.

Thx,
CoMa

P>S> I'm not raging, just some idea's to make the game more enjoyable for everyone..thats the purpose of a game isn't it? b:chuckle

I just wanted to come back to this whole 15 people vs the barb thing just so the people who wern't there will understand xD

This barb is full rank 9 +12 JOSD... very tankyb:shocked

Yes there was roughly i would say 10-15 of us there to try and kill him, none of us as i was aware had over my weapon which is G16+7 Sandy World....

I welcome any suggestions that will help 10-15 people who hit complete **** on a full JOSD barb with their r8+3 weps or similar to kill it ... Yes i did hit the barb fairly well, 3k ish normal hit but when the barb has uber genie, endless apoc, invoke, triple spark i fail to see a way of taking him down without a purge.....

Might just be me but i would hazard a guess at these r8 similar weps must of been hitting less than 500 damage to him...30khp+ is a lot when your hitting that puny lol

Any suggestions.... or complete flaming over this post... either way xD b:chuckle

OontzOontz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Disable squads from getting in. It's already bs that 10 r9 can go in on the same team/nation. Nothing stopping people from forming a squad once inside.

Doesnt mean they'll be in the winning nation.

So they're 1 squad who SHOULD always win their battles.
1 battle out of how many others going on?
Its not enough of a difference.

Especially when PWI has some sort of method of balancing the players in each nation.

sheepus wrote: »

I welcome any suggestions that will help 10-15 people who hit complete **** on a full JOSD barb with their r8+3 weps or similar to kill it ... Yes i did hit the barb fairly well, 3k ish normal hit but when the barb has uber genie, endless apoc, invoke, triple spark i fail to see a way of taking him down without a purge.....

Now would you say if these 10-15 r8s that at hitting 500 useful or useless when it comes to taking down a single barb?

sheepus wrote: »

I welcome any suggestions that will help 10-15 people who hit complete **** on a full JOSD barb with their r8+3 weps or similar to kill it ... Yes i did hit the barb fairly well, 3k ish normal hit but when the barb has uber genie, endless apoc, invoke, triple spark i fail to see a way of taking him down without a purge.....

Might just be me but i would hazard a guess at these r8 similar weps must of been hitting less than 500 damage to him...30khp+ is a lot when your hitting that puny lol

I'll be constructive:

Purge
Amp
Ironwood
Devour
Undine
Heavens Flame
Glacial Spike
STA
Elemental/Dimensional Seal
Subsea
Diminished Vigor
Heart/Soul/Mind Shatter
Befuddling Creeper
EP
Mire

And theres a great deal of skills that ignore def levels and go right through protections.

In CC terms, theres all kinds of stuns, seals, sleeps, immobs, and slows. Mystic pushback, Reel In, yadda yadda.

15 people should be able to take out that Barb without a problem. It's just a matter of giving it all you've got. R8 is plenty for that...hell TT90 should do it with the 15 people. People just need to do something other than 3 spark and attack usually. If a R9 Wizard can solo that guy (I've seen it), 15 can do it.

sheepus wrote: »

Any Tw player will know this, IG,invoke,genie etc... so basically 20-30 secs is clearly enough time to get to the base to return the flag.

And any nation war players should know this... outside of archers no one can solo run the whole distance in your 20-30 seconds. Even archers need 30 seconds. Barb solo run are looking at 40-45 seconds with no hindrance. If the barb ironguards as your post suggest he could do, the total time would more then likely exceed a whole minute.

sheepus wrote: »

Yes i agree that there are tons of ways to debuff, amplify, stun etc But.....

Not one of them did any of these things.. 90% of people who do have r8 or equivalent have no clue on how to pk so are basically just swinging a leaf at a wall trying to hurt it.
With a fullr9+12 barb it is very hard to take them down with r9 equivalent for at least 20-30 secs if he/she(no sexism :P) knows what they are doing.. Any Tw player will know this, IG,invoke,genie etc... so basically 20-30 secs is clearly enough time to get to the base to return the flag.

Im not flaming or anything, good on the guy he can take some bloody damage. Pretty sure i hit a 10k in there somewhere too so how he survived i don't know, but sometimes r8 equivalent gear is just not enough to be useful. They are useful in some cases... keep aggro from r9's while i charge BIDS but yeah, dependant on the situation 90% of the time if people are useful or not.

But, on the plus side, these r8 equivalent people are now upgrading to g14,g15 and then g16 so these r9 players arent going to be able to survive these ganks for much longer \o/ Woop b:chuckle

No its cool, and Kiyo's comments as usual are spot on.

You DO have the time to slow that barb down, stun, seal, sleep, reel in, pushback. People who rely solely on charger orbs to run flags are my favorite, because I can CC them. It's just a matter of delaying the barb outta those defenses. I know from experience with being on defense teams and playing a catabarb that this works extremely well. In NW I've had mixed results - sometimes that barb powers through, sometimes we put them down. It's a matter of cooperation and everyone pounding on them. Some barbs I'm enough, sometimes I need 2-4 people with me, sometimes I need 6. But the less activity outta people and the less "smahrt" choices made skill wise in the situation - the harder it is. A veno and a wizzie is honestly enough to take out even +12 JoSD Barbs, but an un-harassed duo like that isn't always there.

Your issue may be with confidence in yourself and your playstyle, but most likely is with those working along side you. As I told my Lunar group last night, I'm so used to TW, I'm having a seriously hard time not expecting assistance from the people in my NW zone who aren't in my group. If I stun a group, I expect the others to nail them - especially if I HF. 4/5 of the times this is not the case in NW. If my team or some more aware players are with me, it works well - but its too rare and I'm not considering it well and taking crappy risks or being not as effective in NW due to it. I shoulda been delivering hits and playing more evasion than tanking and CCing for others in many situations...cause it's practically like tanking for no one if they aren't gonna do anything.

Tough to swallow for me, it's the one thing I don't like about NW. And in your situation - you've got similar problems. You hit for 10k, were prolly doing at least 2ks and doing your job, but the others weren't. Roll of the dice man, it's like opening packs: Sure, you could win big and enjoy the nice item, but you'll make more solid money and get what you want over time merchanting or flat out selling that gold. NW is the same - you could be with your group the whole time or end up with good players randomly and do well, your nation could pull its head outta its (bleep) and win, but really if you want all those rewards, just merch or sell gold.

Find the fun in it, win or lose. Learn from it. Try new stuff. Try old stuff. Work cooperatively with who is in the instance and hope they wanna do it too. Above all, just play and enjoy it. Who cares if you got 20 tokens - was it fun?

(Also BIDS is not an end all be all for wizzies. Charm tick em with **** first, then unload while they're Undined. I imagine you know this but everytime I see a wizzie go "I cast BIDS" I think of some really bad plays made by people and have to open my mouth. It's like every time I see a BM utilizing pole skills only in TW...)

sheepus wrote: »

No no No you misunderstand me.. I love Nw, it's a nice change from Tw and makes me think more about how im going to go about taking others down without getting my *** ganked xD
Yes i understand that most of the time im going to end up with others that aren't going to do what i "expect" them to do but everyone has different play styles so it means i have to adapt. Maybe next time i will change my tactics and he might go down next time but i will very likely have different people with me and a different barb so will have to adapt to that aswell xD Is a hell of a lot of fun \o/



Yes i know what you mean, in Nw i find it hard to keep chi as im shrinking all over the place trying to avoid pesky sins but when i see a bm running and a nice group i cant help using cloud eruption and pressing the big red button xD If i crit with Bids even withoout a hf or debuff i can 1 hit a r9 archer so imo sometimes it can be worth it due to them hitting so hard i try and kill before they get the chance lol But yeah imo wizzy 2spark skills are very situation based as if you are without chi... some sin is bound to come and **** on you lol b:chuckle

(ps. I also always forget to use the new morai skills so next time he might go down easier if i use them...lol xD)

Exactly, keep experimenting, changing tactics - use those morai skills. Having fun is the goal - win or lose, I'm glad you have that attitude.

Chi is always a problem - you never have enough. However Sin wise and getting ganked - it's not just distance shrink & holy path, but AntiStun+IG and Expel tactics that help too. Don't just use your genie for a chi bump.

Now that people are complining about entering NW and not being able to get a fight..

At least in Fuzzy's mind it draws a direct parallel between people being locked out of Territory War. Sure, it is a compressed instance and takes 2 hours instead of 6 months, but to this panda the idea is the same. Difference this time it seems to be the better geared complaining instead of the lesser geared.

Stare at NW map (TW map) for 2 hours (6 months) cant get a fight (war)and Nation (faction) is squeezed into a corner they can't escape.

The most OP squads (factions) want to be able to fight together and farm kills and get the best rewards.

Don't like the fact your nation gets base locked? Seems comparable to how every other player felt when their faction was locked nevermind the idea they couldn't even participate without it being a waste of coin to try and then getting rolled.

It seems to Fuzzy the majority of QQ in this thread is either "am in the loosing Nation and we are getting locked" or "am RAWR 9 so deserve to get more than a lvl 60" who might dare enter your nation.

There is nothing wrong with 20v20 from panda's prospective. The token rewards are just that, a reward. Not an entitlement. Not a "grrr... me have better gear so deserve more of a share" not a " damn them, they glitched my fun" not a "damn that nation they base blocked 200 players".

From what Fuzzy can see, the entire point is not so you can group up your R9's or R8's or even a simple TT70 faction squad and attempt to own it together. Nations are balanced on soulforce and this is a good thing.

If your nation is getting base blocked maybe next week you can stop and think and look at the map instead of just rushing into the closest war to farm some pvp kills.

It is very interesting for Fuzzy to see this all the QQ is basically the converse of TW. Complaining you can't get a fight but deserve one beacuse it "ruins your fun" or you can do more since you are more OP than the nabs is such a difference from the old TW QQ where the smaller were complaining since the OP all seemed to merge to one or two factions.

Don't enjoy it when the nation you are in gets base locked? Maybe you and you OP squad should look at the map from the get go and try find a way around it. Other nations doing better? Blaming that on AFK people or noobs somehow "stealing your spot" is just sad.

FuzzyWuzz wrote: »

Don't enjoy it when the nation you are in gets base locked? Maybe you and you OP squad should look at the map from the get go and try find a way around it. Other nations doing better? Blaming that on AFK people or noobs somehow "stealing your spot" is just sad.

If I remembered to take off hide UI, I have some awesome screen shots of a 4 v 20 war with 16 people standing at the spawn points for 10 minutes.

I've also got some screen shots the other way around, being on a fully active side vs about 3-5 people and the other side having a ton of people standing on spawn points.

You're wrong Fuzzy. It may not be "the" root cause but it's definitely a problem that affects other people's enjoyment of the instance. There is no strategy behind being the quickest person to click 1 of 4 map sections in a land lock situation. You may not be understanding what we mean by "land lock" though, usually you're a bit more with the program than this.