Nation War, More than 20 vs 20

titotit

So ive seen alot of NW threads going up but i havent seen this as yet. Is it me or is everyone else tired of being landocked due to the war being only 20 vs 20?At least bring it up to 30? or even 40 and i know the lag tht it may cause for so many people being such a confined area but i dont know what else to think of b:surrender. Last night i spent over 15 mins staring at the screen wondering where to go cause every time i tried to enter a fight it was either full or i cant reach it because other nations are fighting on the path i need to go there... seriously yo if this is going be it for me every weekend, i have long way till my t3 .

oh and last night i only got 26 token after being able to go to like 5-7 wars for the entire 2 hours

Nurfed_You - Harshlands

I feel the same way. I got into one first battle, 2nd one filled up before i got to it with my squad so i got sent back to base. Pretty much got stuck there for the next 2 hours because 280 people were trying to attack/defend about 8 lands.

I ended up with 38 tokens from staring at the map screen for 2hrs trying to get in battles

Chigenkaiona - Dreamweaver

+1

2nd week I been stuck in base with 170+ players trying to get out and the 4 lands around base trapping us in. Got 19 tokens cause of that.

Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary

Increase the amount of territories but not the slots per map, as I already said I DOUBT people want to fight vs a whole squad of elite uber geared people, in stead it`s better if they are scattered in several battles, 30 - 40 spots would grant a higher chance for whole squads to enter in same battle, I rather have a diversity of all kinds of people in a battle.

As an example, today when we entered in our 1st battle, I saw nothing but several of the top r9 players basically facerolling us, it`s somehow they managed to get into same map, (doubt if all from squad but there were plenty of them). All in all they need to balance NW even better, for instance don`t allow squads! Or if they increase maximum capacity of players per battle, then again remove option of being in a squad.

Flamespirit - Dreamweaver

Ideally they should have made it the old squad limit style with only 6 allowed, so as to stop 10 uber +12 rank 9's from squading. Lets be honest, nobody is going to mess with such a group if they work together, not even a couple of uber toons.

They should leave it and maybe people will learn that there is strategy involved and they won't let thier base get landlocked anymore.

In last nation wars, I attacked a land that kept two other lands from recieving help and it was me against 20 people. I managed to get the flag, then kill thier flag guy, and then get the flag again...I kept 20 people busy all by myself long enough for my nation to take the other two lands....had the other people quickly focused on the flag rather than pvp I could not have kept them diverted for so long. They should be embarresed.

XLawBreakerX - Sanctuary

yea out of 2 hours i only get around 3-4 good battles rest is one sided either we are 20 and opponent is 1 or we are 2-3 and opponent 20.

In todays NW there was a fight where we were 20 and opponent 6 all 6 were r9+12/11 JOSD and the barb in that was best geared cata barb of our server since we didnt have any r9+12 arcane the barb cudnt be killed and both times he got flag he went to finish and we lost. So if a cata build barb enters a NW and u havnt got any high arcane DDs in that instance ull basically lose if he gets flag.. Or is there any workaround for it? (dont say dont let him take flag coz out of 10 times flag spawns he is bound to get it once)

I agree with either reducing squad size or being unsquadded for NW each player its own and coordinate better with ur nation would be good idea i think.

Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary

XLawBreakerX - Sanctuary wrote: »

yea out of 2 hours i only get around 3-4 good battles rest is one sided either we are 20 and opponent is 1 or we are 2-3 and opponent 20.

In todays NW there was a fight where we were 20 and opponent 6 all 6 were r9+12/11 JOSD and the barb in that was best geared cata barb of our server since we didnt have any r9+12 arcane the barb cudnt be killed and both times he got flag he went to finish and we lost. So if a cata build barb enters a NW and u havnt got any high arcane DDs in that instance ull basically lose if he gets flag.. Or is there any workaround for it? (dont say dont let him take flag coz out of 10 times flag spawns he is bound to get it once)

I agree with either reducing squad size or being unsquadded for NW each player its own and coordinate better with ur nation would be good idea i think.

Speaking about barbs, today also in 1 of the battles, only 1 barb entered and every1 struggled to kill it, I think we were more than 12 people on it lol, like a damn fortress.

XLawBreakerX - Sanctuary

Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary wrote: »

Speaking about barbs, today also in 1 of the battles, only 1 barb entered and every1 struggled to kill it, I think we were more than 12 people on it lol, like a damn fortress.

Yea when theres no r9+10 arcane in opponent side my barb doesnt die and hes only r9+10 so when its a r9+12 jades barb with vit build u got to have atleast 2 r9+11/12 arances to kill the **** lol and unfortunately most times u dont have them in same instance.

Hexalot - Dreamweaver

Flamespirit - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Ideally they should have made it the old squad limit style with only 6 allowed, so as to stop 10 uber +12 rank 9's from squading. Lets be honest, nobody is going to mess with such a group if they work together, not even a couple of uber toons.

Ha... speak for yourself. There is something to be said for the occasional Leeerooy Jeeenkins !! moment. b:laugh

Plus... personal contribution is also calculated based on the total level of soul force of the opposition compared to your own. That is... the tougher the opposition... the higher your personal score will be.

So the next time you see a bunch of R9 +12s escorting a flag... slap on an IG and charge the lot of them firing like a mad man. Sure you'll get annihilated once the immunity wears off, but you'll have still dealt some damage and that's what counts.

T_i_m - Dreamweaver

I'm happy with the fight sizes. It's hard to keep a full squad of 10 together but 6 or so worked well for me last night.

Cuppers - Sanctuary

Also, once you click on a land the position should be locked. So that you are not spending 3 minutes getting to a land just to be kicked back to the last spot or base. I spent last night going between two battles just to be sent back to base. Nation Wars was pretty fun on Friday night but the last Sunday nights have been aweful. Maybe add another night??? Also, maybe limit it to the first 800-1000 people. That way there is only about 200 per land. Might help.... Also might help rapture prices and canny. Buying rapts for 250k or less?. Come on they should never drop below 400k each.

Longknife - Harshlands

More territories needed.

Typically each nation has maybe 8-10 battles going on at once, on average? Dunno about other servers but Harshlands averages 278 people per nation, so that's easily 78 players per nation just sitting around screaming at the map.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

More territories needed.

Typically each nation has maybe 8-10 battles going on at once, on average? Dunno about other servers but Harshlands averages 278 people per nation, so that's easily 78 players per nation just sitting around screaming at the map.

They added more territories in China, unless I dreamed that. So its just a matter of time.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

Thats the whole point... being able to lock someone in. The elite squads of each nation should be attacking and cutting off any reinforcements... so the **** of its nation can take free land. Kinda of sucks to be you if your nation's elite squad sucks. On a partially related note... I been getting 2-3k points per battle when out numbered 1 to 3 or 4. So for those with decent gear out there... stop going for the 100 points with easy land.

jmweston

make this instance more fun for every1, dont let the squad enter all together to nw and put the max limit to 30 players at least in some areas so the ppl dont stuck on the base (not so much at least)


http://s2.subirimagenes.com/otros/previo/thump_8160815newtwmap1.jpg

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

More territories needed.

Typically each nation has maybe 8-10 battles going on at once, on average? Dunno about other servers but Harshlands averages 278 people per nation, so that's easily 78 players per nation just sitting around screaming at the map.

We should get this in the next content update.
This is what the map looks like on PWCN now.
http://i4.minus.com/imGY1RPm2NfXX.png

f31

my two cent make so only one acc per ip is allowed no mroe damn alts who do nothing but stare and look dumb seriusly make so no afk ppl can just join for the fun its dumb.

other one is to make no party but only singel player can join and let them join party in there order that way.... we dont need 10 of the best geared on one team to join a order...

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Yea that suck took me 25-30 minutes at the start to get into a war, was walking 3 minutes for get ''full instance'' and get back in base, for 30 minutes, it's really annoying, than I got in a war, 2 seconds after I enter I saw Defeat and got back in base, stuck there for 10-15mintues cause there was war around our base and we was 200 players stuck in base for 10 minutes, we should be able to pass the war to go on other lands.

XLawBreakerX - Sanctuary

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

We should get this in the next content update.
This is what the map looks like on PWCN now.
http://i4.minus.com/imGY1RPm2NfXX.png

Thanks, this should help hopefully..

And btw to the poster who said about elite players and stuff thats pretty hard to coordinate doubt it will happen people wont listen and go wherever they want to go.

OontzOontz - Dreamweaver

Disable squads from getting in. It's already bs that 10 r9 can go in on the same team/nation. Nothing stopping people from forming a squad once inside.

Fate/Soul - Lost City

The best fix for the land locking is allowing people to pass over the lands that are filled, there is no reason for the game to prevent that. Even better though, maybe just allow clicking each map and joining right away, the walking just takes so much of the 2 hours that you really only get about 1hr and 15 mins if u never got land locked or had a few long wars.b:shutup

MANray_ - Sanctuary

As Asterelle pointed out this is getting a fix in the form of more territories being added and I would consider this the ideal solution. While I can certainly simpathize with people being upset at not finding battles (I was in Sanctuary's Light last night, which got completely blocked and limited to just four territories for a significant amount of time) I'm against increasing the size of battles for not just lag reasons, but because I do think larger battles are more likely to create unequality by decreasing the chances of making meaningful contirbutions for those of us not ubergeared endgame types.

The map for this upgrade shows 6 territories adjacent to bases, which would provide spots for roughly half the players on any given nation on my server. This is fair to me for two reasons. 1) Partially blocking players from other nations from participating in this way is a legitimate way to ensure a better score for your nation, keep in mind I do use the term partial here because fully blocking a nation (leaving its players completely surrounded) its self defeating, as Sanctuary's flame demonstrated last night, as this will lead to 2) players in nations completely blocked (especially if attackers resort to tactics such as spawn camping) will self select to only the strongest on this nation participating in battles. Eventually this leads to just not the attacked nation breaking the blockade, but gives it an edge as this stronger groups tend to move in bloc towards the further territories. Esentially what you're doing with this tactic is shooting yourself in the foot. In last night's NW Sanctuary's Flame eventually went from winning to dead last because of this. The winning nation (Dark) took a very different approach with its players blocking only 2-3 territories of adjacent Flame and Frost nations, thus diverting the bulk of players in this two nations to fight elsewhere while providing its own with the largest borders, and thus the best oportunities for its players to participate. Now, I'm not saying they did this on purpose, but after a few NWs I think we are starting to get some good grasp on how this was designed to work, and that unsportsmanship (spawn camping, blocking nations) is not a good strategy for those actually working towards their nation success instead of greedily hogging whatever "easy" credits they think they can get.

Edit; I will add also, that because of the resons I've provided here its a good thing players in winning nations do get much better rewards, as this should force most of us to think in strategic terms and to really start working as teams towards a common purpose rather than merely trying to stack personal victories in random fighting.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary wrote: »

Increase the amount of territories but not the slots per map, as I already said I DOUBT people want to fight vs a whole squad of elite uber geared people, in stead it`s better if they are scattered in several battles, 30 - 40 spots would grant a higher chance for whole squads to enter in same battle, I rather have a diversity of all kinds of people in a battle.

As an example, today when we entered in our 1st battle, I saw nothing but several of the top r9 players basically facerolling us, it`s somehow they managed to get into same map, (doubt if all from squad but there were plenty of them). All in all they need to balance NW even better, for instance don`t allow squads! Or if they increase maximum capacity of players per battle, then again remove option of being in a squad.

+1 to this.

At the most maybe update the numbers faster so pple dont waste their time.
Stop making us go back to 'start'
Let us pass through battling territories to get to the other side.

TheDendra - Harshlands

Geez, if you want to add pvp farming to the game, do it right instead of making half-*** copies - since you're copying already anyway, you might as well give us modified versions of Arathi Basin, Warsong Gulch and Possibly Eye of the Storm, but the first two are more than enough and highly entertaining pvp battleground modes. Instead of making pvp farming a weekly event, make it available 24/7 and as a single instance with player limit on each side set to 15-20. (2hours for a pvp farming instance is way too long, it should be 45min-1h tops and only so by players choice rather than being fixed to lasting that long)

To all the people whining about premades - you are probably expecting to play some lazy family game where you can suck and have everything just by staring at your screen - so stop crying and expecting pwi to allow lvl60s to join in just so you can kill somebody, if you got a problem with a premade - move elsewhere. This is the nature of pvp farming, sometimes you run into premades and lose in 4 minutes without gaining much, sometimes you run into noobs or make your own premades and own the place. The thing is that in a good pvp farming oriented game, this happens so many times when available 24/7 that you all get a fair chance of farming your gear, whereas in pwi it's a bit more annoying since you only get to do the event twice a week.

The biggest problems with nation wars are that you are fked for the week if you get into a bad nation and the aforementioned issue with being stuck inside your base - there are plenty lands to have medium sized fights on all of them, but the problem is when you've got 150people and only 4lands to fight at, so they need to find a way to avoid this and ensure a more stable flow of action - and I'm not entirely sure simply adding more territories is the best solution because then there won't be enough people to cover all that land (aka you'd end up having a lot of empty wars where 15people are struggling to capture the flag themselves).


A

_Skai_ - Raging Tide

Maybe having two bases that the nations can swap between would help prevent landlocking as well as create more strategic movement with your nation to coordinate attacks/defenses.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

Yes I agree a biggest map would be better than allow more players in a war.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

I actually don't want to see territory denial disappear completely as it adds a very interesting strategic aspect. If you engage a territory then the opponents won't be able to cross that territory to defend land farther away. This makes that land easier to take for your nation since the opponents can't reinforce.

If you are too aggressive though behind enemy lines then the land could close up behind you which means your squad won't be getting any reinforcements. The NW map can actually make a good strategy game similar to Go. Really there is a lot more strategy than with TW but you can't really coordinate your whole nation when it is filled with so many different kinds of players.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

I actually don't want to see territory denial disappear completely as it adds a very interesting strategic aspect. If you engage a territory then the opponents won't be able to cross that territory to defend land farther away. This makes that land easier to take for your nation since the opponents can't reinforce.

If you are too aggressive though behind enemy lines then the land could close up behind you which means your squad won't be getting any reinforcements. The NW map can actually make a good strategy game similar to Go. Really there is a lot more strategy than with TW but you can't really coordinate your whole nation when it is filled with so many different kinds of players.

I would agree with you Asty...if there wasn't a high chance of afk alts causing this to happen and it instead relied upon active players playing.

SMASHnHEAL - Dreamweaver

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

I actually don't want to see territory denial disappear completely as it adds a very interesting strategic aspect. If you engage a territory then the opponents won't be able to cross that territory to defend land farther away. This makes that land easier to take for your nation since the opponents can't reinforce.

If you are too aggressive though behind enemy lines then the land could close up behind you which means your squad won't be getting any reinforcements. The NW map can actually make a good strategy game similar to Go. Really there is a lot more strategy than with TW but you can't really coordinate your whole nation when it is filled with so many different kinds of players.

A lot of people are not smart as to which lands they attack or defend and is a big reason why some nations seem to get whipped almost completely off the map. I joined about 45mins late in the last war and got put into Flame which at the time was doing very poor. I ended up taking a straight line across Dark's territories and cut off a number of the lower lands which the rest of my nation were then able to attack freely.

I would be great if a nation chat option was available as coordinating these attacks would be key. Instead we get world chats from random people calling out ganks on the strongest nation at the time.

VlLKASS - Sanctuary

titotit wrote: »

So ive seen alot of NW threads going up but i havent seen this as yet. Is it me or is everyone else tired of being landocked due to the war being only 20 vs 20?At least bring it up to 30? or even 40 and i know the lag tht it may cause for so many people being such a confined area but i dont know what else to think of b:surrender. Last night i spent over 15 mins staring at the screen wondering where to go cause every time i tried to enter a fight it was either full or i cant reach it because other nations are fighting on the path i need to go there... seriously yo if this is going be it for me every weekend, i have long way till my t3 .

oh and last night i only got 26 token after being able to go to like 5-7 wars for the entire 2 hours

I don't find this a problem. You need to work together, and not with only your squad but the entire nation. You can have each squad lead in vent or in a chatbox, just giving out suggestions in general plans. Yesterday I was not stuck in a territory once; however I saw that about 150 ppl in base were.


*Be careful where you click, if you fail an attack you will be sent back to base.

*Keep track of the purple/blue(can't remember color) territories, note their cool-down and go in just as it expires.

*Don't always just attack, sometimes you need to defend - which was my mistake yesterday. Our squad did extremely good; however we should have helped the others in base by clearing/protecting some of the closer territories. We were assuming they would follow our up path (lower Flame nation) and branch out into the sides; I guess they also only attacked and after losing ended up stuck in base.

*Move along the map into empty slots of your land while monitoring the lands in cool-down or fights in progress, get closer to them so you enter just as it opens.


I have not really encountered any afkers or any players that were not moving around yesterday.

Had a fun time. Especially the 5 (us) VS 20 territory

Desdi - Sanctuary

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

We should get this in the next content update.
This is what the map looks like on PWCN now.
http://i4.minus.com/imGY1RPm2NfXX.png

Sweet. This is exactly what we were in need of.
I assume PWCN players addressed this issue as well so they got this done.