PVP in Secret Passage
Comments
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Crystyl - Dreamweaver wrote: »Maybe you could make a PvE server without places like this? Anyone can enter PK mode on PvE servers and PK anywhere they want. Why does this "free PK area" in secret passage even exist? Maybe you could have an Arena or Blood Theater where people can PK if they want to? 3 years from now this same conversation will still be going on unresolved. If PWI was even considering fixing it it would have happened by now. If the players were going to behave in that area this would never have come up anyway.
Actually, removing the PK ability from SP breaks some things and arenas in the game. Part of the reason we couldn't enter PWIC this time was because the arena they used has its settings directly tied in to that of Secret Passage.
And since the Chinese server is PvP (IIRC, PWI was the first to introduce PvE servers) it's not a concern for them or something they'd probably care to alter for our servers and have to keep changing every time they sent us a new patch.0 -
UGH!! Why does PWI have to be so stupid. All you have to do is go back to last yrs forums on this very subject.. There were like... i dont know.. A dozen threads about it for bejezus sake. People overwhelmingly did NOT want pk enabled in SP. The pkers in there didnt not .. will not.. care if your low lvl, hi lvl, non pk.. the kill you as soon as you step into the first room and sins hide behind the chest for the wheel to kill you once you start to dig.. THEY DONT CARE. We have had proof time and time again of people declaring Im going in to do a quest and the pkrs saying right out I dont care.. Or F you... Or too bad. There was documented proof of pkers in there ignoring people saying we are just going in for culti or chrono. They say stone in.. Well guess what geniuses.. You cant stone to the chest to dig.. OR to Shade Eido or Silver Frost. Once again.. For the THIRD time we are dealing with GMs and Admins with short term memory loss... How hard would it be to use the search button and read the threads...? Gee I dont know.. Maybe I'll go find them for you and necro them. You all want to pk.. Go to west or Silver Pool.0
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hmmm this better not intefere with my alts or im gonna be pissedCollector of pet eggs, armor, weapons, fashion, and mountsb:chuckle0
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Last time it was all or nothing. It required no proof of consent or anything of the sort. This time around consent is required for all parties each time you want to PK with them. If you don't give your consent and someone kills you, submit a ticket. They've also announced that they are doing 3 day ban minimums, I don't think it worked that way last time. Let's give it a few days and see how it turns out.
Inb4 neighborhood watch?0 -
Boots_Elf - Sanctuary wrote: »UGH!! Why does PWI have to be so stupid. All you have to do is go back to last yrs forums on this very subject.. There were like... i dont know.. A dozen threads about it for bejezus sake. People overwhelmingly did NOT want pk enabled in SP. The pkers in there didnt not .. will not.. care if your low lvl, hi lvl, non pk.. the kill you as soon as you step into the first room and sins hide behind the chest for the wheel to kill you once you start to dig.. THEY DONT CARE. We have had proof time and time again of people declaring Im going in to do a quest and the pkrs saying right out I dont care.. Or F you... Or too bad. There was documented proof of pkers in there ignoring people saying we are just going in for culti or chrono. They say stone in.. Well guess what geniuses.. You cant stone to the chest to dig.. OR to Shade Eido or Silver Frost. Once again.. For the THIRD time we are dealing with GMs and Admins with short term memory loss... How hard would it be to use the search button and read the threads...? Gee I dont know.. Maybe I'll go find them for you and necro them. You all want to pk.. Go to west or Silver Pool.
Well, the low level problem wont be nearly as bad, due to the fact that they barely exist anymore. v4l has promised there will be repercusions for bullys. secret passage represents a unique pk instance right now, with its safety feature, and port out when you die (no mystics rezzing themselves just to die again) great for fair arena like fights, if people will be respectful enough. with the threat of bans, less low levels, people "might" be more respectful. They wont be able to revert it immeadietely anyway, based off of how long last time took, so people will still probably ignore gms if they say no pk at all if they believe that the bans wont happen. Just allow it and see what happens, it could all work out.
But seriously.... why isnt arena open? would just make this all soo much easier XD[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I would like to know how consent really works. So do you have to ask the player to kill them first? Cause if so that kinda makes Assassins in stealth funny.
Assassin in Stealth:Hey there, I want to know if it is ok if I kill you double sparked from stealth
Cleric:Sure go ahead
.
*Sin double sparks from stealth kills cleric*
I find that amusing actually.0 -
Toomaga - Heavens Tear wrote: »I would like to know how consent really works. So do you have to ask the player to kill them first? Cause if so that kinda makes Assassins in stealth funny.
Assassin in Stealth:Hey there, I want to know if it is ok if I kill you double sparked from stealth
Cleric:Sure go ahead.
*Sin double sparks from stealth kills cleric*
I find that amusing actually.
Assassins, **** everything up.... alwaysb:infuriated[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Toomaga - Heavens Tear wrote: »I would like to know how consent really works. So do you have to ask the player to kill them first? Cause if so that kinda makes Assassins in stealth funny.
Assassin in Stealth:Hey there, I want to know if it is ok if I kill you double sparked from stealth
Cleric:Sure go ahead.
*Sin double sparks from stealth kills cleric*
I find that amusing actually.
b:laugh b:laugh b:laugh
I needed that well done.There are old Warriors, and bold Warriors,
but there are very few old bold Warriors. b:chuckle0 -
Peeps, lets give this up.
PWI is turning into a PvP game.
We're either going to have to submit, or move on.
You might as well turn all the PvE servers into PvP ones, people would hardly notice a difference at this rate.
I find the concept of "consent" hilarious in this context.
It's not like people in there will be asking "Hey, can I pk you?" They just go to it. Doesn't matter if you're lvl 30 or lvl 100 trying to help some friends get their quests done. All you can do is try to defend yourself, and the people who go in there 9 times out of 10 don't give a damn what your reason for being there is. They're going to rip you to shreds no matter how many times you say "please, I just need silverfrost, leave me alone?"
This is just not a good idea. It wasn't a good idea the first time they tried this, and it's not a good idea now.0 -
The dev's are seriously lazy I mean fix the arena it's for pvp. If they are going to be lazy as always move silver frost so people who want to do that quest chain won't have to deal with any type of pvp.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Sidwinder-HT0 -
I do see this being abused, I already got nailed in there once by a level 100 (before a decision had been made so I didn't bother with the screenshot). When I had to go back in I turned on the looking for squad thing over my head so it would show my level (thinking if they saw my level they would know I was questing and leave me alone).
Is there a way to personalize that message to say something other than looking for squad/members? So a person could have it say over their head if they want to PK. It would be similar to being in PK mode, but just a message instead. No message, you can't attack them.
The one thing I can see being hurt with this is BH 29. Some people can't stone into Deception because they will get hit by the guardians and be killed. Also some people can't afford the 5k fee to stone in. I know a lot of people that don't stack their BH's (though in my opinion it's way easier too) so to do all 3 of your BH's would be 15k to stone in just to avoid being killed by over eager PKers. It's something you might want to consider with Deception is lowering the fee or getting rid of it all together to stone in.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
star-chaster.deviantart.com
star-chaster.tumblr.com0 -
Toomaga - Heavens Tear wrote: »I would like to know how consent really works. So do you have to ask the player to kill them first? Cause if so that kinda makes Assassins in stealth funny.
Assassin in Stealth:Hey there, I want to know if it is ok if I kill you double sparked from stealth
Cleric:Sure go ahead.
*Sin double sparks from stealth kills cleric*
I find that amusing actually.
I find this whole thread/situation amusing.
Asking for permission . . . players should be respectful . . . shouldn't
take advantage . . . screenshots, tickets, bans . . . .
b:laugh
In a nutshell: PW can't/won't fix this glitch. I wish they'd just be honest
about it, instead of attempting to portray it as some sort of new "feature"
they're awaiting "feedback" on.0 -
Star_Prism - Archosaur wrote: »The one thing I can see being hurt with this is BH 29. Some people can't stone into Deception because they will get hit by the guardians and be killed. Also some people can't afford the 5k fee to stone in. I know a lot of people that don't stack their BH's (though in my opinion it's way easier too) so to do all 3 of your BH's would be 15k to stone in just to avoid being killed by over eager PKers. It's something you might want to consider with Deception is lowering the fee or getting rid of it all together to stone in.
This is an even bigger issue now that the lower level DQ is nerfed and they can't make 5k by selling 7 drops. b:surrender[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
~Demon as of 5/6/12 - On the night where the moon is closer to the earth and brighter than any other night in the past 18 years.~
Slow and steady stays alive~ I'm in no rush, I'm enjoying the journey to end game just as it was ment to be. b:victory
"You sir, are why I love clerics
" < Liba - Heaven's Tear
b:thanks Well thank you Liba<30 -
The one thing that I have too ask about here is:
Is the SP (death/port timer) back too insta-port speed, like it was back when this was first tried in SP all that time ago? Because if it is back too the lightning fast port reaction time, its not very likely that anyone who does get (griefed or denial killed) will even have the time too take a snapshot of their attackers???b:faint
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Yeah, it's insta tele upon death again. And you don't need a screenshot of the character, their name pops up in your text box saying "You were killed by _____". That's pretty definitive proof most of the time.The one thing that I have too ask about here is:
Is the SP (death/port timer) back too insta-port speed, like it was back when this was first tried in SP all that time ago? Because if it is back too the lightning fast port reaction time, its not very likely that anyone who does get (griefed or denial killed) will even have the time too take a snapshot of their attackers???b:faint[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
~Demon as of 5/6/12 - On the night where the moon is closer to the earth and brighter than any other night in the past 18 years.~
Slow and steady stays alive~ I'm in no rush, I'm enjoying the journey to end game just as it was ment to be. b:victory
"You sir, are why I love clerics" < Liba - Heaven's Tear
b:thanks Well thank you Liba<30 -
There are a load of quests that require you to go through SP entrance.
I tried 3 times on Sunday with a low-level archer. Each time was one-shotted as soon as I entered. Players are just being utter ****.
Well, I'll try again tonight, with the screenshot option up as I enter. If people pk me, I'll go back and screenshot them again, and again and again.0 -
This is another of many bull****s u made in this game.
Ppl that went there to PK don't care if u're passing by, or not they will kill lowbies regardless. last time i saw bunch of ppl aoeing who doesn't care who they kill. they went there to pk. Heck saw seeker standing in middle holding vortex, and if he sais "sorry was excedent" it was a HUGE **** of lie.
U GMs realy forcing this game to be PVP Based?
Why don't make every place PVP Free? Even Towns b:angry
There is bunch of quests in secreet passage.
Like someone said nice encouragement for new players b:bye there isn't many of them.this game has only old players. new players have hard time as it is with FC head sale, and lousy BH system caused by FC sale.
If You realy wanted to give players some PK Free zone don't use low lvl instance b:angry there is other instances u can make pk free zone such as Cave of Sadistic Glee.
And for those that pk in SP message that they aren't real PK-ers , sry for language but they are pussies that are afraid of loosing Gear and items so they take advantage of free zone. If you're real pk-er go white named and pk in main map.0 -
oVenusArmanio wrote: »If you see someone doing that screenshot it. If someone is being abusive on either side, screenshot it. And let people through and don't PK someone without their consent. Hopefully everyone plays nice and respects one another. It'd be pretty easy to screenshot someone not moving when you ask them to do so.
How can one possibly screenshot someone runnign to an AoE on purpose? How can one prove they are not there enjoying their PvE game, passing time or just downright watching a PvP fight?
And noone has to move "so you can aoe". If it requires an agreement, you just won't be allowed to AoE there. Standing somewhere doesn't break any rule. Going afk (not answering to the request) doesn't either.
The way I see it, this can be abused by someone unless you're recording everything on video, because their logs won't show their intentions unless they type it. Not sure if their log also shows every move people make, that would probably not be true, so they'll be tied to what people say. And they'd ban the wrong person.
The solution they gave to it is lazy. They could have just as well made all PvE servers become open PvP and state that it's allowed "as long as the other part consents". If they wanted to make a PvP instance for PvE servers, they could just open the arena instead of having an instance that's needed for a cultivation chain and low level BHs to be open PvP. You know, somewhere that people will only go for that instead of for questing on a PvE server.
This rule wouldn't be so much contested if there was more trust in PWI's GMs, but after so many random bans unexplained (seen people ask "why did you ban me" in a ticket and get as answer "don't keep answering to this ticket, it'll just take us longer to reply") because people submit tickets randomly (TW factions do a lot of this). How can I trust people who just ban people without giving any reason even after directly asked to deal with this kind of issue? This is not an old issue, it was recent - happened rthe week before Sirens expansion. Ban was for a week and no reason was given untill now.
All of this not to mention how ridiculous it is to be always requesting people to submit tickets for everything that happens in game instead of fixing it, which will: delay the answer of tickets due to the increased amount of tickets coming in AND make people take longer to finish their quests, since people won't get banned till the tickets are read and analysed AND how lame an experience it is to have to submit tickets everytime you get killed by different bullies.
PvP servers are already PvP, and PvE people have the option to PvP if they want so. Why force it in an instance?
One last question: the Hey, you! said that if someone kills you you submit a ticket. What if they just tick my charm or waste my m.def. or p.def. charm equipped, or stun lock me? There are some things that don't show on log - I believe that being permastunned won't show there, for instance.0 -
This is why my lvl 38 friend was unable to do his fb29 cause u all wanta give the high lvl people a place to pk? Try making them a place of thier own. Why give them in instance that low lvls have so many quest in. You are also not taking in considertion that all the high lvls that pk in there dont care if they aoe and kill somebody. I came in and told both rank 9 sins that was killing him and the lvl 82 bm that was trying to do the fb for him that i we was not there to pk but to do the fb and they killed me more then one time as well as them. Now unless your planning to park a GM in the sp to enforce they kill only those there to pk and make it to where aoes will not kill others thats not there to pk this will never work. Why r u determined to ruin those new players on a pve server giving them no choice if they get pked and make them not want to play.0
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oVenusArmanio wrote: »As Hey, you! just pointed out, they have logs. We'll just have to wait and see how it all works out. b:cute
except for goon glitchers0 -
this is an abuse
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Vq0j8DSViM b:laugh
10+ ppl try kill my poor barb everyday when and allowed pvp is SP b:surrender0 -
BadAzzBabe - Raging Tide wrote: »This is why my lvl 38 friend was unable to do his fb29 cause u all wanta give the high lvl people a place to pk? Try making them a place of thier own. Why give them in instance that low lvls have so many quest in. You are also not taking in considertion that all the high lvls that pk in there dont care if they aoe and kill somebody. I came in and told both rank 9 sins that was killing him and the lvl 82 bm that was trying to do the fb for him that i we was not there to pk but to do the fb and they killed me more then one time as well as them. Now unless your planning to park a GM in the sp to enforce they kill only those there to pk and make it to where aoes will not kill others thats not there to pk this will never work. Why r u determined to ruin those new players on a pve server giving them no choice if they get pked and make them not want to play.
You're best course of action right now is ticket, ticket, ticket. If you don't ticket, the gms won't know. As you can see in the update if they won't place nice, PWI reserves the right to revert the rule. Be sure and tell them that too.0 -
augustfinknottle wrote: »How can one possibly screenshot someone runnign to an AoE on purpose? How can one prove they are not there enjoying their PvE game, passing time or just downright watching a PvP fight?
You can screenshot your apology to them if they get caught in the AOE though. And if they come back, be on the lookout for that person. If they come back towards you, it's easy enough to screenshot them.augustfinknottle wrote: »And noone has to move "so you can aoe". If it requires an agreement, you just won't be allowed to AoE there. Standing somewhere doesn't break any rule. Going afk (not answering to the request) doesn't either.
So move away from them. If they keep following you, that's easy enough to screenshot as well.augustfinknottle wrote: »The way I see it, this can be abused by someone unless you're recording everything on video, because their logs won't show their intentions unless they type it. Not sure if their log also shows every move people make, that would probably not be true, so they'll be tied to what people say. And they'd ban the wrong person.
Be proactive and in chat with someone. As you said, you can type your intentions. And they have a record of the chat logs. If someone is going out of their way to keep getting killed by you, it should be pretty obvious to you. And easy to screenshot.augustfinknottle wrote: »
The solution they gave to it is lazy. They could have just as well made all PvE servers become open PvP and state that it's allowed "as long as the other part consents". If they wanted to make a PvP instance for PvE servers, they could just open the arena instead of having an instance that's needed for a cultivation chain and low level BHs to be open PvP. You know, somewhere that people will only go for that instead of for questing on a PvE server.
This rule wouldn't be so much contested if there was more trust in PWI's GMs, but after so many random bans unexplained (seen people ask "why did you ban me" in a ticket and get as answer "don't keep answering to this ticket, it'll just take us longer to reply") because people submit tickets randomly (TW factions do a lot of this). How can I trust people who just ban people without giving any reason even after directly asked to deal with this kind of issue? This is not an old issue, it was recent - happened rthe week before Sirens expansion. Ban was for a week and no reason was given untill now.
All of this not to mention how ridiculous it is to be always requesting people to submit tickets for everything that happens in game instead of fixing it, which will: delay the answer of tickets due to the increased amount of tickets coming in AND make people take longer to finish their quests, since people won't get banned till the tickets are read and analysed AND how lame an experience it is to have to submit tickets everytime you get killed by different bullies.
PvP servers are already PvP, and PvE people have the option to PvP if they want so. Why force it in an instance?
One last question: the Hey, you! said that if someone kills you you submit a ticket. What if they just tick my charm or waste my m.def. or p.def. charm equipped, or stun lock me? There are some things that don't show on log - I believe that being permastunned won't show there, for instance.
If someone is keeping you stunlocked, screen shot that. I know banning isn't something that is a pleasant experience if they've made a mistake but there is a lot of proof you can get in the meantime. In the end, the GMs have already stated that they reserve the right to reverse rule if it doesn't work out. It would take a long time to change SP back even if they hadn't. They are just trying a new way to deal with this problem. The best we can all do is be patient and proactive. If it works out, great. If not, oh well. At least nobody can say they didn't try to make things nice for both types of players.0 -
Well this is all fair and well if you tell griefing/unwanted pk is banable and you having a way to find out, if you want to put in the extra work to find out who is the lair and who the honest that is your deal.
The biggest problem is that appart from the forums there is no information about that and that especially new players wont know that:
a) people are forbidden from killing them just for fun and unless they agree.
b) this behaviour is banable and what steps to take to get that person his well deserved punishment.
I have already seen a post in the begginers guide where a new player asked why he keeps dying there and then posted some messages of what appears to be player names. But unless you tell them IN GAME what to do and what to expect there... they wont do anything and just do the thing any decent intelligent person would do: Stay out of Secret Passage no matter what quest is in there....
You had a hint pop up the first time entered Nation Wars as i noticed with some explanations, the least thing you could do is put one of those with the needed information about SP once you first enter it so you can read it and be prepared what to expect.0 -
just to be completely clear on this subject:
i signed up for a PVP server, but now i can be banned for PVPing on said server?
for instance, a kos guild member comes along and i need their consent before i pk them?
can "griefing" be defined a bit more please? as in 3 or more kills per player in a specific time span.
imo it should just be left a non pvp area. opening it up for pk but making strange rules about it...well sounds like a giant headache and over9000 tickets getting spammed every day.the good Starr0 -
hate the way they force stupid pking on people that dont want to have anything to do with it....I joined a nonpk server for a reason just so i wouldnt have to deal with this ****Barbarian(Barber)=104
Cleric(MysticFrost)=104
BM(TooCold)=104
Seeker(TiltedKilt)=104
Assassin(Spongeworthy)=104
Veno(UnZipped)=1030 -
Starr - Harshlands wrote: »just to be completely clear on this subject:
i signed up for a PVP server, but now i can be banned for PVPing on said server?
for instance, a kos guild member comes along and i need their consent before i pk them?
can "griefing" be defined a bit more please? as in 3 or more kills per player in a specific time span.
imo it should just be left a non pvp area. opening it up for pk but making strange rules about it...well sounds like a giant headache and over9000 tickets getting spammed every day.
The consent rule doesn't apply for outside of SP. Although griefing is something that has always been bannable. And yes, even KoS people have a right to do their chrono quest. I doubt they'll be more specific because they don't want people trying to get around PK rules in general, although there aren't many of them. Take TW for example. But I'll ask about how KoS factors in. In the meantime, it might be best to just leave the person alone unless they consent to PvP or a GM tells you otherwise on that issue.0 -
Seriously just revert it back to NO PVP like everyone ( but the devs ) wants. b:surrender0
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Barber - Heavens Tear wrote: »hate the way they force stupid pking on people that dont want to have anything to do with it....I joined a nonpk server for a reason just so i wouldnt have to deal with this ****
so just turn pk off? or does it automatically turn you white named upon entering the instance?the good Starr0
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