Main Discussion about NW pricing and effect on game

FuzzyWuzz wrote: »

So the nirvana market crashed? Fuzzy can't help but laugh.
/CUT to make it shorter/

Are you kidding?
I don't spend Cash on this game, and Nirvana was my main source of getting coins in game!
How should I get coins now? By farming TT? Oh right, it will take me just 10x longer to get same amount of coins, and also I was farming TT and TT market is already low. I had problems selling TT70 and TT90 gear and mats for them.

And I can't sell Golden TT mats higher than they are at 1k NPC. So we have limited price set there.

They just nerfed every single way of getting coins, and the only way to cover my expenses is to Cash Shop!

That's the problem. Nirvana was source of coins for so many people, and now we're screwed to the max.

CroPsy - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Are you kidding?
I don't spend Cash on this game, and Nirvana was my main source of getting coins in game!
How should I get coins now? By farming TT? Oh right, it will take me just 10x longer to get same amount of coins, and also I was farming TT and TT market is already low. I had problems selling TT70 and TT90 gear and mats for them.

And I can't sell Golden TT mats higher than they are at 1k NPC. So we have limited price set there.

They just nerfed every single way of getting coins, and the only way to cover my expenses is to Cash Shop!

That's the problem. Nirvana was source of coins for so many people, and now we're screwed to the max.

Would you like more cheese with that wine sir? 10x longer really? Welcome to the real world neo.. The place where you have to work to get what you want and have to follow rules set by the person in charge... That being the people who are letting you play THEIR GAME for FREE, would you like server charges instead sir? b:chuckle

FuzzyWuzz wrote: »

....People who farm nirv for coin and complain are those who don't need the raps and cannys. ....?

I'm someone who needs raps and cannies and I still hate the update. For the record, I was a 5 aps sage sin on my server who'd duo nirvy with whomever wanted to come along. I've run with barbs, I've run with clerics, I've run with veno's/wizzy's/mystics and any low aps toon who bothered to ask. The advantage to being a sage sin was that I had the damage output as well as decent survivability to be ABLE to run duo nirvy's with average refines, and yes I was the tank, and no I didn't need heals.

I needed raps to recast my daggers and I needed cannies for my helm, I've cash shopped at least $600 since starting this game, and I feel as though pwi just slapped me in the face. I can't do the NW's, since as a sin with only 'ok' refines, any of the R9's can oneshot me, and make a POINT of doing so. It doesn't help that we have a limited number of respawns, and when we do respawn, it's NOT EVEN IN A SAFE AREA. they can kill us there before we even BUFF ourselves, so, y'know, THANKS FOR THAT, devs...

That SAID, I'm not completely against the NW as I can see why it would be a lot of fun if you all hadn't made it possible to circumnavigate the screening system by simply being on a squad with a bunch of other 101+ R9 +12 folks. but 1 token + 10k for a rap is a serious slap in the face to most people. I mean hell 65-100 tokens for a rap would have been more reasonable, with the rewards going upward of 500 tokens for a couple hours of messing around, and the non-nirvying players having the advantage.

But no, we broke the nirvy market. So all the aps toons who were farming that, and other's who had friends like me to help them farm it, well we'll go farm TT. And be like every other TT farmer, with 100's of mats plugging up the bank that we can't sell because there's too many and no one needs them. So, lunar? LOL! 3 mil for a run and no guarantee for anything good in that run.... Sure, that's "realistic" to farm. So, maybe DQ points? No, wait, you nerfed those too. 1 coin per item not 900-2000. I mean why would you want to give low level players some pocket coin?

That said, I see the advantage in questing giving decent coin rewards as it does, but is that really enough to pay for pots/charms/repairs/gear upgrades? I think not. the only thing left that I see is to cash shop, or be stupid lucky with BH's.

I for one, will be quitting the game at this point, and regret that I ever spent a dime on such a greedy company. pwi's always been an escape for me and I'm sad to lose all the work I put into my things on top of cashing, but I'll be happy to go now that you all have made perfectly clear you don't give a damn about pissing off most of your userbase Yes, make the ones who don't play as much, and can't cash shop happy. I can see a little thing here and there, that's a good idea, and it's needed, but in this you completely alienated a lot of people. I've seen too many good players walk out of game the past 6-7 months because the people running pwi don't have enough of a brain between their ears to understand why they might offend people, and only care about making their next dollar. Have fun all

dude2509 wrote: »

Would you like more cheese with that wine sir? 10x longer really? Welcome to the real world neo.. The place where you have to work to get what you want and have to follow rules set by the person in charge... That being the people who are letting you play THEIR GAME for FREE, would you like server charges instead sir? b:chuckle

I like when people say IT'S FREE! -.-
Know what? I DON'T CARE!

I mean, I do spend $10 here and there, but I'm not going to pay $1500 for R9 just to be competitive. Most of my Cash Shopping goes to Items I need for myself (expansion stones, fashion...).

It's stupid to crash everything just to make me cash shop more and spend $50 a month on tihs game. I don't see any other reason for this.
And they now want to make this game PVP, but guess what, if you want to PVP, you NEED to buy R9 to be competitive now, cause it's much faster and easier to get Stage 3 R9, and that's nothing compared to Stage 3 Nirv gear.

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

Lunar, Warsong, Trophy mode, TT, FC, mats, herbs, AEU, cube of fate, BH daily even on alts, merchanting, can still cannies/raps to people who can't/won't do NW, i'm sure I'm forgetting something.

What can I farm in FC? I can't sell EXP... nor can I powerlevel...
Mats, herbs - yes, but it takes ages to get 10m, which is min you need for TW.
Cube is one alternative, but it's only 600-700k per day, if you're lucky not to spend a lot of coins just to finish cube.
I don't to merchating, I want to play not to sit and look...

Nirvana was EASY and FAST way to get coins in this game.
Now it's PAY or GTFO or spend 12 years just to farm enough coins to buy TT99 golden mats...

dude2509 wrote: »

Would you like more cheese with that wine sir?

Your post made me smile xD.

Antigone - Momaganon wrote: »

I understood both sides, the pro and the con-event-side...

I wish more people shared this ability to see this from different angles, Anti >:

Something in here reminded me of, when during some of my lurking earlier, I noticed some post talking about sins and aps indirectily being effected(I don't actually remember how in-depth it was, either, but I remembered/it made me think... anyone know who that was?)... because if everyone has decent gear and the sins with like really... just 'bad' gear (defense wise) by most end-gear standards in order to get aps(it doesn't help that it's LA and that armour type is complainabout worthy to begin with by the people who use it xD!) I've always kinda-facedesked at 96% of the sin population having the same armour, which is the same armour that they know they'll die in if they're in any sort of strong AoEish range once some.. invicibility or something thing of theirs wears off(I have no idea, I'm a veno x3)
-anyway and if everyone's well geared and they're just getting 1-hit by everyone 'cause of their aps gear having really bad survivability, then sins would have to step up their gear defence wise, too, but at the sacrifice of aps and all that craze that makes me want to bash my muzzle into a wall.

I don't really have anything 'against' sins or have anything but a neutral attitude of them getting effected or not('cause seekers are totally OP, not sins xD -oh dear lordy seekers'll only get worse....), but I know that most people are like aspkgnsdkgngsdg sins <<< so it may be some 'food for thought'. *smallerized 'cause it feels a little to specific to take up the room it does at normal size*

CroPsy - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I like when people say IT'S FREE! -.-
Know what? I DON'T CARE!

*cut short*

Erm why exactly would you need to dump a huge amount of coin into gear when its virtually half price for higher levels and lower level gear aint expensive anyway especially if you farm it... Oh R9 so you wanted to abuse a fast money making scheme (vana etc) to pay for something that is generally paid for via cash.. I wonder how many people would moan if you couldn't buy gold and the only way was to dump cash into the game to get rewarded with such powerful gear... HEY PW why dont you do that, remove gold trade!! You know since you gave us something that rivals R9.. G16 ofc... See what I'm getting at, they didn't even have to add that in there but they did probably because people moaning about it and I buy a lot of gold purely through doing BH, AEU, Warsong etc and that was before I had my G16 gear

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

/CUT to make less text/
Point being that nirvana isn't the only source of income out there. I can understand being mad because your primary source of income has been taken. But let's not claim that it's the only way to make coin in this game, because it isn't.

I agree that Nirvana isn't the only way of getting money in PWI. But problem is that every other way of making money takes so long. Everything in this game is require so much time when you're not spending a lot of cash every month.
I didn't had anything against that. I love work hard to get what I want, I don't play PVP so I don't really need high-refines, high-level gems and stuff.
But instead of taking me 3 months to get something, now it will take 5-6. That's too much for me.

I was mostly doing Caster Nirv runs, average was just over 1m/run when 2x is on.
I can't solo nothing more than TT1-2, while R9's will be able to just walk trough TT and farm coins even faster than in Nirv, with this easy access to Stage 2 and Stage 3 now.

I don't know, I'm really sad with this Nation Wars rewards.

Ty PWI! i can t assist to this stupid event due to my work schedule and since this will kill any chance to farm any other instance (and no, I don t have a stupid 5aps sin) is over for me.. was fun... wanna do a rebalance? make more of these events at different times, I m pretty sure I m not the only one that can t assist to this event at this time.. b:bye

Yuna_Sama - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Btw... Can someone tell me more about the event? Is it something even someone as noob-geared as my Veno can score in (even a bit)? If so I might just get up at 5AM sometimes... I always kinda wanted the angelic Nirvy gear... I just dropped it for Morai since it was so expensive... But if I can get the Raps pretty much for free there might still be hope... Well... That is if I can afford the weapon needed to make it and find a reliable crafter...

Yes its possible as win or lose you gain tokens based on a contribution style.. All you need to do is help capture flags or do damage to people in there, heal, buff etc but depending on your contribution will result in more or less tokens... Myself I wasn't doing all that great (choosing all the wrong places which had 20ish attacking and 5 defending xD) yet i still came out with 168 tokens = 168 raps or 840 cannies if I decided to have those however I was doing decent dmg also with a decent amount of kills which naturally gave me more tokens for defending

dude2509 wrote: »

Yes its possible as win or lose you gain tokens based on a contribution style.. All you need to do is help capture flags or do damage to people in there, heal, buff etc but depending on your contribution will result in more or less tokens... Myself I wasn't doing all that great (choosing all the wrong places which had 20ish attacking and 5 defending xD) yet i still came out with 168 tokens = 168 raps or 840 cannies if I decided to have those however I was doing decent dmg also with a decent amount of kills which naturally gave me more tokens for defending

Ah that sounds cool... So my job would basically to Bramble ppl, sneakily get some flags, and cast Bramble Hood on myself when a Sin is about to attack me (always fun to see melee classes kill themselves on it)... One last question: If I die will I be able to lose items or exp? Or is that all locked in there?

FuzzyWuzz wrote: »

Where is the problem here?

Where is the problem? Is panda gonna pay me 400+m for cannies and raps i farmed over past year and they turned worthless over night? I could have finish my r9 if i sold my stuff last week but who'd guess pwi gonna pull this ****, yesterday when it was clear whats gonna happen no one wanted to buy anything anymore, a year well wasted.

Yuna_Sama - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yeah but you have to be 100 1st to have a chance of those BH rewards... And at lvl 32 the costs aren't that high yet... But when it comes to the mid lvls around 60-99 a newby would basically be screwed...

I am talking about quest reward money for 100+ quests. I am NOT talking about bh rewards for 100+ people.

At lower levels you can pick and choose what quests you want to do based on exp, money, spirit, quest reward. Some quests give amazing money. Especially the new season quests. It is very easy to acquire money now at lower level compared to when i lvled my bm two years ago. My alts on benefit from flyers and mounts, the rest the alts are self sustaining.

CroPsy - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Nirvana was EASY and FAST way to get coins in this game.
Now it's PAY or GTFO or spend 12 years just to farm enough coins to buy TT99 golden mats...

Nirvana 1 run, 6 person squad 10 minute run (yes the 5 minute squads take 5 minutes to get back). Assume an average drop of 9 canny 1 rap. Rap at 1.3m, canny at 275k. That is a 630k split. You can do 6 runs an hour. That is 3.78m an hour, do it for 3 hours, 11.34m in hours. Do a tt 3-2, 3-3 run with friends/solo, will take 20 minutes, that is 9 runs. You are bound to get atleast 1 gold mat worth 10m in that run. Usually you get more. I fail to see where the quick, easy part is in making money in vana? Gold mats have a price limit. Yes they do, but they still sell quickly if you sell 50k~1m cheaper than the gold price, and not be a greedy person and charge the chip price or more.

Warsong, 30 minutes a run (old version). 6 badges a run. You need 60 badges for a weapon. That is 10 runs. That amounts to 5 hours. Sell the weapon mold for 90m~120m. That is 18m/hour minimum in full warsong. Beats vana by miles. If people on your server don't trust you enough to make your weapons, i can't help you with that.

Don't even get me started on Lunar.

I find it sad if people only play pwi for 1~3 instances. If pwi was that shallow, we wouldn't have other instances. If your character is made to only live in 1~3 instances, naturally you will be super annoyed. You were a specialist that lost the specialty and can not adjust. Either you learn to roll like other farmers, merchants, pve folks, cash shoppers, or quit. Those are the two ultimate choices in most things. Whether you accept it or not, say yes or no, do it or not do it.

If you had a personality that takes on challenges, you would reinvent your character, or start a new one and make use of the cheap prices and start enjoying the other aspects of pwi.

Yuna_Sama - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Ah that sounds cool... So my job would basically to Bramble ppl, sneakily get some flags, and cast Bramble Hood on myself when a Sin is about to attack me (always fun to see melee classes kill themselves on it)... One last question: If I die will I be able to lose items or exp? Or is that all locked in there?

No loss the only thing is if you die 6 times they send you back to your base and you have to choose piece of map you want to go to again and start all over and your contributions keep building \o/

Last time i checked encyclopedia in game, and it said on forges that you'll need 60 coins to make 1 raps and i don't recall the exchange rate for cannies. Anyone can confirm this or not?

dude2509 wrote: »

I'm sorry but what? You thought the people who worked hard and spent money would be sitting at the top forever? Do you live in the real world xD we do that every day of our lives but people seem to think nopes not on a game lol, what if PW started moaning at us everytime we left their game as we shouldn't have lives we should be playing forever

WAKE UP PEOPLE!! You have a f2p game what the hell are you moaning at o.O people moan about cash shoppers so they make it easier for all to have decent gear without dumping cash into a game that requires it to stay afloat and you STILL MOAN.. Just please all people moaning just GTFO you're all stupid and ungrateful x.x

You're talking like you're one of those lazy people who just stand around complaining about not having the gear you wanted while not even putting in an effort to get it yourself. ALL of those people are now thrilled that they can go into an instance, mash a few buttons and *POOF* they now have full sets of "Top-Tier" (to a degree) gear just handed to them.

Was Nirvana overly complicated? No. Did it give you a sense of accomplishment for what you've finally obtained? Sure did.

My wife and I busted hump to get our gear, we basically "finished" our mains to the point we wanted them and have recently started farming for alts. We were one mold away from having the alts finished and this happens.

Sure, we could still finish her gear, but what's the point? So we can go PvP against the Faceroll kiddies who sit out at West Gate? No thanks, too much drama. So we can do more wined TWs? I don't see the fun in that. So we can do Nation Wars 2 nights a week? What happens when we can't make it to that on multiple occasions and lose the ability to "farm"? We're both predominantly PvE players and you can call it snobby, stuck-up, arrogant or whatever but we enjoyed having that separation from the rest of the population. Yes there were people far better geared than we were, but we were happy with what we had and the work we had put into it.

In EVERY MMO there is a separation of players based on gear and in NO MMO has the playing field ever been leveled this quickly and in such a drastic manner. As others have stated (and I've stated earlier in this thread) you do not make anything obsolete, if you want to introduce new content you do it slowly.

I've played a few MMOs now and I will agree with everyone stating that change always happens, it does. But I have NEVER seen gear made so easily accessible, even when things were completely replaced the old, "sub-par" items were still left to be obtained the way they were intended.

To all those ranting about "They better not do a rollback and take away my precious gear!" how the hell do you think those of us that actually FARMED our gear feel? We just had all of that effort we put in over many months taking away in seconds when Nation Wars ended.

I completely agree that things need to get fixed and made easier to get because frankly, there is quite a bit in this game that was overly difficult (in terms of time) to get, but such a drastic change is bad.

Rollback please, fix your mistake, tweak it to accommodate everyone without negating a whole market and aspect of your game. Make people still actually work for their gear, not just hand it to them on a silver platter. Don't want to remove Nirvana drops from the forges completely then re-do the manufacturing cost and make it harder to obtain.

People should NOT be walking away with full sets of "End game" gear from 2 hours worth of work. It's just an asinine idea. That would be like somebody (and we're talking your average joe) going into work one day and being handed a check worth 10 times what he normally makes. "Here Bill, great work, you're complacent, don't do anything to improve your performance, here's a blank check, go get yourself something nice...". It doesn't work that way, in real life and a game you're supposed to work for your stuff. Two hours of PvP isn't "work".

All the people who are happy with this should ask some of the people who have gone to those infamous Private Servers and come back due to it being boring since everyone has everything handed to them.