APS Nerf, <-RUMOR

Finrah - Sanctuary · February 2012

Jadsia - Lost City wrote: »

Hello? All weapons have prerequisites for which class can use them. Some just happen to be able to be used by almost all classes therefore the 'rightful weapon' as you want to callit belongs to any class that fits the prerequisite. Damn you're really judgemental of how other people build their toons.

Hello to you too Jad

You're really right, why would people go through a lot to get a specific weapon for themselves? They should all just buy a stick from the npc to play and refine that; I bet you can 1 hit me with it b:laugh
I REALLY wouldn't mind players using anything in delta runs and instances etc as long as they can at least punch the mobs..

Your reply was just...so smart azz b:chuckle

_Petal_ - Harshlands · February 2012

I really don't HATE aps--doesn't mean I won't throw a party if it gets nurfed.

Aps itself doesn't bother me. I wouldn't mind if it were 3.33...but more specifically...

I played a Psychic because I knew every Mary Sue and Bob Jones was going to have an Assassin. I wanted to play a Psychic because I knew it was going to be a class that wasn't going to be very well understood--due to so many people, again, playing Assassins. I quit my LC barb and moved to HL because I was sick and tired of people whining about TW, and began playing a caster for the first time.

I love my Psychic. I want her to have decent gear and be able to fight toe-to-toe with opponents. It's taken me two years at my own pace to get to 100, and get TT99 WITHOUT having to roll an alt just to farm sh*t. I have to say I'm proud of myself for accomplishing what, around two years ago, really wasn't that big a deal. I'm currently working on my Nirvana set, and going to recast. (Because **** R8, that's why. I will be getting the weapon, but that's ALL PWE's getting from my pockets. b:bye)

It bothers me when I walk out and find myself dead within a second and a half because some thirteen year old punk uses Occult Ice and then twitches me to death. That's not PvP--PvP is when you fight to the death, toe-to-toe against the enemy using your skill and the gear you WORKED for...Aps toons are so easy to obtain that almost everyone has one...where's the challenge in this game if anybody can twitch things to death?
It bothers me that some whiny kid over in Jersey begged his mommy for her credit card so he could buy R9, Frost his way to 105, and then faceroll my hardworking a$$ into the pixel-pavement.
It bothers me when I can't even get a squad for normal Nirvana because I'm not a fast enough DD. Not fast enough?! I have the SECOND FASTEST casting class in the entire GAME! (Mystics stole the title from us.) So because I can't attack five times in a second, I'm stuck doing casters just like all the other...well, casters.

Why is it so much to ask to play this game with the character you LIKE without having to sell your organs or roll a character that looks like it's watching that banned episode of Pokemon on replay? Why is it that I have to play a class I HATE just to get anything accomplished, or why should I pay you, PWE, when you won't even fix the issue?

Seascraper - Sanctuary · February 2012

Devoted - Lost City wrote: »

Archers could be 5.0 aps before sins were even a thought in a crazy chinese dev's mind. b:laugh

just a quoting here... did u ever checked any other mmorpg? cus it seems u didnt every game has its assassin(or ranger wich is the equivalent) wich are pure 1-1 DDers wich are always the strongest ones in that kind of battles in every game... try to bring one of those into aoe and they have almost no effect.
im sorry but everyone will have to deal with that fact. and youre already lucky enough to be able to see a sin in this game while theyre in stealth (getting a chance at it) because in other games stealth is absolute skill if a lv10 sin would be in stealth even the max lv (lets say 100) wouldnt be able to see him because its an absolute skill.
these games for what ive seen the most have a cooldown and a limited time on how much time u can be in stealth but generally the cooldown is equal to the max time of stealth.
a 4 aps r8 sin is still stronger than most 5 aps (unless theyre 5aps with g15 daggers)
r9 sins get 4 aps and are stronger than any 5 aps sin.
a full r9 sin should still be able to easy get 3.33 aps wich would make this to be the strongest of all sins even more than a 5 aps.

THE NERF WOULD HAVE TO BE MAINLY IN R8/R9 ARMOURS BUT THIS BRINGS ALOT OF MONEY TO THEM WICH MEANS THERE WONT BE CAP IN THESE AND MOST LIKELY NOT IN APS ALSO BECAUSE IT ALSO GIVES THEM A BIG INCOME TAKE OUT THE APS AND THEY WOULD LOOSE THE MAJORITY OF THE COMUNITY in consequence the rest would end up quiting...

this would be a way too big loss for pwi dont hope for a nerf unles its just from 5 to 4 or 3.33

LuciusVorenu - Lost City · February 2012

RyuTiger - Raging Tide wrote: »

No I mean if the aps goes to 2.00 make the bosses and mobs weaker so we can kill it not stay 20 min at a boss. You make any squad you want from 6 and kill in TT 3-2...3-3 without any aps player and tell me how that goes and then make a squad with full aps sins, bm and whatever you want, and tell me how that goes for you.

There is no way in hell that it takes 20 minutes or so to kill a boss with anything less then 2 aps. 2 aps sounds completely reasonable. There are plenty of DD's that make frosts and TTs faster...namely psys, wiz, seekers. I run frosts daily with me often having the most aps at 2.22 and a sin with maybe 1.86. We NEVER spend 20 minutes at a boss.b:shocked

RebeI - Harshlands · February 2012

_Petal_ - Harshlands wrote: »

It bothers me when I can't even get a squad for normal Nirvana because I'm not a fast enough DD. Not fast enough?! I have the SECOND FASTEST casting class in the entire GAME! (Mystics stole the title from us.) So because I can't attack five times in a second, I'm stuck doing casters just like all the other...well, casters.

Try being a wiz!

I have to disagree with you about the money making issues. I made a fair amount of coins last 2x. 25-30m an hour in caster nirvana = win? :P

Sure it might not be as much as a 5 aps sin, but it's good for a caster imo.

Also merchanting can be done by anyone, regardless of your class.

If you get occulted, you can counter it with your genie. Sure sins have 50 billion stuns and immobilising skills but that's nothing new.

Hit me up next 2x and we can get the ball rolling

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver · February 2012

LuciusVorenu - Lost City wrote: »

There is no way in hell that it takes 20 minutes or so to kill a boss with anything less then 2 aps. 2 aps sounds completely reasonable. There are plenty of DD's that make frosts and TTs faster...namely psys, wiz, seekers. I run frosts daily with me often having the most aps at 2.22 and a sin with maybe 1.86. We NEVER spend 20 minutes at a boss.b:shocked

This! I have 1.82aps sin, and even in squads where I'm the only melee besides the tank I have never spent that long with a competent squad. Notice that word competent there? Yeah, that one is a biggy. I've done pretty long runs with constant afking, constantly dying, improperly geared people who make everything take longer than it should.

FanFon - Dreamweaver · February 2012

Jadsia - Lost City wrote: »

Why don't you compare the actual DD I do while spam healing my herc compared to the DD a 5 aps does permasparked then come back and talk about equality, balance, fairness, **** for tat ****?

I couldn't care less if another class can solo an instance I can. What bothers be is the degree that a 5 aps toon can do that compared to any other class. Why is it that when you people insist on comparing a veno with a herc soloing an HH to a 5 aps you fail to mention that a 5 aps solos instances that a veno and herc never ever could. Frost, NV, trophy mode, etc.

Personally I think if they are going to nerf anything it ought to be the cooldown times of the sparks. Triple the cooldown times. That way it's a nerf against all classes but we'd see who would QQ the most then. LOL.

Jadsia - Lost City wrote: »

ROTFL! This only proves how ignorant you are.

First stop triple posting and learn to muti post and edit.
Second Quilues argument is valid except that venos made more then most
a 5 aps toon make now. You are going to say b*** ****. In the past people got paid 5 cents an hour now they get paid 7$+. Are people making more money now? No they are not because the value has been lowered. In the past you could get 1-2 gold for soloing a 1-1 squad mode.
Third if i'm so ignorant educate me on how hard it is to solo with a herc. Oh please do show me the errors of my opinion. Tell me whats so difficult about soloing in TT besides the fact you can't purify your pet.

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

A lot of classes can kill a fully buffed herc in 2s...

You still don't get it do you? The point others were making is that venos were the rich farming class at that time. The amount they were making in gold was arguably comparable to the amount you can make with a 5aps toon now. One veno could practically out DD a squad of 3 other classes.

Also, lols at permasparking in PvP. I don't think you PvP at all. If you're talking about sins, they have chi skills that have nothingg to do with APS.

Very true +1

Geshwur - Raging Tide · February 2012

warrioroftherose wrote: »

i think ive spent more money on my fash's // then my aps gear(seeing how most of it is easily farm'd) b:laugh

only sins use aps gear with r9 wep? r9 is the major chunk of cash spenders.

well that and prolly end game shards/refines b:surrender

Yeah, but look at the numbers (Especially on PvE servers)

I'd guess about 10x as many sins/BMs/Archers/Barbs get 5APS as people who get R9.

Some of those sins go for G15 or R9 daggers.

Now. R9 (base, without refines, cause everyone who refines pays the same/refine) costs 5x the price of APS. there are (estimated 10x as many 5APS toons as there are R9s. 3/4 of which cash-shop at least the majority of the gear.

That means (aprox.) 1.5x as much income comes from APS.

Oh. And news flash. There are R9s out there who farmed coin to buy gold from AH, played the gold market (kinda like Stocks) to get MORE gold/coin to buy their R9.

Geshwur - Raging Tide · February 2012

RebeI - Harshlands wrote: »

Try being a wiz!

I have to disagree with you about the money making issues. I made a fair amount of coins last 2x. 25-30m an hour in caster nirvana = win? :P

Sure it might not be as much as a 5 aps sin, but it's good for a caster imo.

Also merchanting can be done by anyone, regardless of your class.

If you get occulted, you can counter it with your genie. Sure sins have 50 billion stuns and immobilising skills but that's nothing new.

Hit me up next 2x and we can get the ball rolling

From what you just said, in an hour of caster you made about as much as I make in an average hour and a half. Resetting the instance comes into play.

Caster Nirvy takes longer, but has better drop rate and less resets in an hour than APS squads.

about half the time spent in APS squads is spent resetting the instance and getting back in.

So to me it sounds like you've got a pretty nice thing going there.

BUT IDK the transfer rate from Harshlands to RT as far as coins go.

KagamineRin_ - Sanctuary · February 2012

RebeI - Harshlands wrote: »

Try being a wiz!

I have to disagree with you about the money making issues. I made a fair amount of coins last 2x. 25-30m an hour in caster nirvana = win? :P

Wow so now glitchers are bragging on the forum about cheating in caster nirvana?
Keep on glitching.

ILLeism - Heavens Tear · February 2012

KagamineRin_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Wow so now glitchers are bragging on the forum about cheating in caster nirvana?
Keep on glitching.

you mad

Jadsia - Lost City · February 2012

FanFon - Dreamweaver wrote: »

First stop triple posting and learn to muti post and edit.
Second Quilues argument is valid except that venos made more then most
a 5 aps toon make now. You are going to say b*** ****. In the past people got paid 5 cents an hour now they get paid 7$+. Are people making more money now? No they are not because the value has been lowered. In the past you could get 1-2 gold for soloing a 1-1 squad mode.
Third if i'm so ignorant educate me on how hard it is to solo with a herc. Oh please do show me the errors of my opinion. Tell me whats so difficult about soloing in TT besides the fact you can't purify your pet.

1. I post a separate reply to each person I'm replying to. If you don't like it too bad.
2. You're still missing my point which is the discrepancy of the raw DPS between a herc and veno and a 5 aps toon since you insist on comparing the 2. When every other class out there who has invested the same $$ and amount of time into the same level of gear as a 5 aps can do roughly the same raw DPS then the game might be considered balanced but it's not even close. My point has never ever been about herc venos or 5 aps players making coin. It's too bad thick-headed dense morons like you continue to try to twist my point into "A veno used to use a herc to solo TT to make coin so QQ it's only fair if a 5 aps toon can Solo TT + several other instances a herc veno has never been able to do it 5 times faster.." fight.
3. I'll educate you a little about soloing TT or any type of boss with a herc since you asked. I can't just set up a spam heal macro and make it work. My channeling for heal is faster than the cooldown so if I have 8 skill slots in the macro filled with pet heal it stops at the 1st one as the skill is still in cooldown. So I would have to insert another skill in between every heal. some bosses that is just enough to kill the herc and me. I have to spam heal with my finger on the key that heals.

Then A veno and a pet is almost like running 2 chars at once. Not only am I trying to heal my pet fighting an AoE boss I'm potting and healing myself as well. Luring bosses away from mobs by unsomming the herc and resummoning the herc paralyzes a veno for the 5 seconds or so the summon is casting thus making a veno take aggro and DD from whatever is lured and then while buffing/ healing the herc to send after the boss/mob. Takes time and skill to coordinate that while soloing. Some bosses like astralwalker and Dimentora require extra talent to solo becuse they don't lure properly due to AoE and ranged DD they do.

Also I'm r8 so it's relatively easy for me to outDD my herc and steal aggro. Venos don't have the pdef to survive long against a melee boss or mob so DD management and self and herc heals when that happens takes timing and practice too.

It takes coordination to manipulate both char's (veno and pet) skills and aggro management to make it work so making a comment like rushing in fox form with herc and macro this and that.. yada..yada..yada.. was not only ignorant but idiotic to say the least. I've seen all kinds of 5 aps toons just auto attack with spark macros while doing very little but pressing a key every 10 seconds or so.

FanFon - Dreamweaver · February 2012

Jadsia - Lost City wrote: »

When every other class out there who has invested the same $$ and amount of time into the same level of gear as a 5 aps can do roughly the same raw DPS then the game might be considered balanced but it's not even close
"A veno used to use a herc to solo TT to make coin so QQ it's only fair if a 5 aps toon can Solo TT + several other instances a herc veno has never been able to do it 5 times faster.."
3. I'll educate you a little about soloing TT or any type of boss with a herc since you asked. I can't just set up a spam heal macro and make it work. My channeling for heal is faster than the cooldown so if I have 8 skill slots in the macro filled with pet heal it stops at the 1st one as the skill is still in cooldown. So I would have to insert another skill in between every heal. some bosses that is just enough to kill the herc and me. I have to spam heal with my finger on the key that heals.

Then A veno and a pet is almost like running 2 chars at once. Not only am I trying to heal my pet fighting an AoE boss I'm potting and healing myself as well. Luring bosses away from mobs by unsomming the herc and resummoning the herc paralyzes a veno for the 5 seconds or so the summon is casting thus making a veno take aggro and DD from whatever is lured and then while buffing/ healing the herc to send after the boss/mob. Takes time and skill to coordinate that while soloing. Some bosses like astralwalker and Dimentora require extra talent to solo becuse they don't lure properly due to AoE and ranged DD they do.

Also I'm r8 so it's relatively easy for me to outDD my herc and steal aggro. Venos don't have the pdef to survive long against a melee boss or mob so DD management and self and herc heals when that happens takes timing and practice too.

It takes coordination to manipulate both char's (veno and pet) skills and aggro management to make it work so making a comment like rushing in fox form with herc and macro this and that.. yada..yada..yada.. was not only ignorant but idiotic to say the least. I've seen all kinds of 5 aps toons just auto attack with spark macros while doing very little but pressing a key every 10 seconds or so.

I'm pointing out for the price you paid for the herc is relative to your over all dps. To your other point with the same investment concept. If it worked that way i demand to have as much hp as a 5 aps barb and the def of a 5 aps bm go ahead bive bms and barbs a damage increase. You whine and complain that the melee dps classes do so much damage in pve, but it is only natural in mmorpgs. Highest dps is always the melees and highest dph is always the casters in mmorpgs.

Yeah that's basically what you have done, and complained about how your 200$ pets gets killed in 2 seconds but thats true with pretty much any class that put in the same amount of coin to get 5 aps

Lol to be honest you don't make it sound that difficult to solo with your pet. Anyways Hercs are just mini barbs you can pull agro off of no big deal give it a head start on agro and you are fine. From what you are telling me you have plenty of time between heals to debuff the boss.ever Occurred to you that you can also use a zeal to pull and catch with the pet? Even if the boss hits you it is most likely magic damage and we all know magic damage hurts you so bad.

Oh yeah you can get killed by some bosses well that is true with 5 aps toons also. Astral walker can be a problem I can actually see that, but Dimentora really? He is pretty easy to pull since you are a magic class.

Yes pressing crab meats and herbs is so difficult, and no playing a veno is not like playing 2 toons at once 2 toons are much more of a nightmare on 1 computer

Lets see the difference

A pet has limited skills compared to a whole toon
You only have 1 window open
Don't really have to worry about pet mp but you have to feed it thats soo difficult

Bobobejumbo - Raging Tide · February 2012

Jadsia - Lost City wrote: »

1. I post a separate reply to each person I'm replying to. If you don't like it too bad.
.

That's nice and all...but that's what the multi-quote function is for. What you are doing is considered either spam or power-posting, or just plain annoying.

In any case, It's against the forum rules.

Cody_tylor - Sanctuary · February 2012

Jadsia - Lost City wrote: »

Also I'm r8 so it's relatively easy for me to outDD my herc and steal aggro. Venos don't have the pdef to survive long against a melee boss or mob so DD management and self and herc heals when that happens takes timing and practice too.

b:laugh Oh my IDK where to start.... Just uninstall please... thanks.

Jadsia - Lost City · February 2012

FanFon - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I'm pointing out for the price you paid for the herc is relative to your over all dps. To your other point with the same investment concept.

If it worked that way i demand to have as much hp as a 5 aps barb and the def of a 5 aps bm go ahead bive bms and barbs a damage increase.

I'm pretty sure Barbs would want skills that stunlock and BMs would want to stealth too but this is just a silly reply to a silly comment.

You whine and complain that the melee dps classes do so much damage in pve, but it is only natural in mmorpgs. Highest dps is always the melees and highest dph is always the casters in mmorpgs.

DPS vs DPH? LOLWUT?? DPH is DPS x 360 What that a joke? First I'm talking about this MMORPG and not any other. Second, Permasparked a 5 aps toon is always going to out-DD most other classes except a wiz and their insane 3 mil DD random crits (A screenshot of that is still floating around the forum somewhere). I never heard of any caster squad in blow through frost or trophy mode FBs as fast as an all 5 aps squad does. LOL! Just a fact but I'll await your ad hominem retort to it nevertheless.

Yeah that's basically what you have done, and complained about how your 200$ pets gets killed in 2 seconds but thats true with pretty much any class that put in the same amount of coin to get 5 aps

You're still missing the point. *FACEPALM* Yeah I spent $200 mil (I farmed it) but I also spent a lot more than that in my gear too. So according to what's been posted previously I've actually spent just as much on my toon as a 5 APS player did but there is that discrepancy in the DPS between the 2. You never added that into your flawed equation. You only seem to focus on the herc. If I were the only one that had a problem with this I would have conceded to your point long ago but I'm not because my argument is valid. Others see the imbalance just as much as I do. If that's beyond your comprehension then this debate cannot go any further. I've said everything I wanted to say and from here on out I'd only be repeating myself.

Lol to be honest you don't make it sound that difficult to solo with your pet. Anyways Hercs are just mini barbs you can pull agro off of no big deal give it a head start on agro and you are fine. From what you are telling me you have plenty of time between heals to debuff the boss.ever Occurred to you that you can also use a zeal to pull and catch with the pet? Even if the boss hits you it is most likely magic damage and we all know magic damage hurts you so bad.

I only mentioned what I do to solo some bosses in HH.

Oh yeah you can get killed by some bosses well that is true with 5 aps toons also. Astral walker can be a problem I can actually see that, but Dimentora really? He is pretty easy to pull since you are a magic class.

You sound like such an expert. I bet you've done it 100s of times with a herc veno as I have.

P.S. Astralwalker is easier to solo than Dimentora but it takes longer.

Yes pressing crab meats and herbs is so difficult, and no playing a veno is not like playing 2 toons at once 2 toons are much more of a nightmare on 1 computer

Ignorance at it's best. I'm LOL'ing I use my skills and genie for HP and MP and rarely need pots.

Lets see the difference

A pet has limited skills compared to a whole toon

Still using 2 separate skill sets for 2 chars, even if one is a pet vs. only 1 for anyone other than a mystic. You might have a valid point if a pet had HP charms and if venos could add pet skills and pet commands in macros too.

You only have 1 window open

So what's that got to do with anything? Was I comparing using my pet and veno at the same time as someone who was multiclienting? LOL! I hope that this was just a troll and not a reading comprehension issue. You seem intellegent.

Don't really have to worry about pet mp but you have to feed it thats soo difficult

No need to feed anything if one has a tome but I digress. Still takes more effort and skill to use a herc veno than the tab and twitch auto attack macro permasparked 5 aps.

Bobobejumbo - Raging Tide wrote: »

That's nice and all...but that's what the multi-quote function is for. What you are doing is considered either spam or power-posting, or just plain annoying.

In any case, It's against the forum rules.

I wholeheartedly apologize for my totally irrational and irresponsible multiple posts. I've been doing that for years and nobody has ever complained until this thread. As I said I have always like to reply directly to the other poster separately for clarity. I hope this satisfies your demand. b:pleased

Cody_tylor - Sanctuary wrote: »

b:laugh Oh my IDK where to start.... Just uninstall please... thanks.

Baseless meaningless post. Move on. Nothing to see here.....

Bobobejumbo - Raging Tide · February 2012

Jadsia - Lost City wrote: »

I wholeheartedly apologize for my totally irrational and irresponsible multiple posts. I've been doing that for years and nobody has ever complained until this thread. As I said I have always like to reply directly to the other poster separately for clarity. I hope this satisfies your demand. b:pleased

Of course it does b:cool

Jadsia - Lost City · February 2012

Bobobejumbo - Raging Tide wrote: »

Of course it does b:cool

Then you are welcome. Enjoy your game! b:chuckle

FanFon - Dreamweaver · February 2012

Jadsia - Lost City wrote: »

DPS vs DPH? LOLWUT?? DPH is DPS x 360 What that a joke? First I'm talking about this MMORPG and not any other. Second, Permasparked a 5 aps toon is always going to out-DD most other classes except a wiz and their insane 3 mil DD random crits (A screenshot of that is still floating around the forum somewhere). I never heard of any caster squad in blow through frost or trophy mode FBs as fast as an all 5 aps squad does. LOL! Just a fact but I'll await your ad hominem retort to it nevertheless.

You're still missing the point. *FACEPALM* Yeah I spent $200 mil (I farmed it) but I also spent a lot more than that in my gear too. So according to what's been posted previously I've actually spent just as much on my toon as a 5 APS player did but there is that discrepancy in the DPS between the 2. You never added that into your flawed equation. You only seem to focus on the herc. If I were the only one that had a problem with this I would have conceded to your point long ago but I'm not because my argument is valid. Others see the imbalance just as much as I do. If that's beyond your comprehension then this debate cannot go any further. I've said everything I wanted to say and from here on out I'd only be repeating myself.

So what's that got to do with anything? Was I comparing using my pet and veno at the same time as someone who was multiclienting? LOL! I hope that this was just a troll and not a reading comprehension issue. You seem intellegent.

lol my dps and dph argument is just saying you want damage to be similar between physical and magic classes. That doesn't happen in any game. It is basically a law of nature in any mmorpg

Do you honestly think 5 aps toons get 5 aps and just turn into gods and stop with **** gear and get no skills?

My point with duel client would be extra lag. Even if you have an amazing compurer a second of spike lag from connection is so much worst

Cody_tylor - Sanctuary · February 2012

Jadsia - Lost City wrote: »

Baseless meaningless post. Move on. Nothing to see here.....

Yeah, my post is so meaningless... My werefox AOE melee and ranged mobs without a herc (i don't even have a herc), and my pets are too squishy to tank

. Magic defense pretty low but not as low as BM's. Maybe you need to use fox form? lol

Jadsia - Lost City · February 2012

FanFon - Dreamweaver wrote: »

lol my dps and dph argument is just saying you want damage to be similar between physical and magic classes. That doesn't happen in any game. It is basically a law of nature in any mmorpg

Again I'm not talking just any game. I'm talking about this one. If what you're saying is supposed to be true then why would anyone want to make a char in a class that is naturally nerfed with respect to another class? It doesn't make sense because it destroys competion between classes. You're starting to make my point for me though.

Do you honestly think 5 aps toons get 5 aps and just turn into gods and stop with **** gear and get no skills?

Tearing through NV in under 4 minutes is almost god-like. So is solo'ing Frost and Trophy mode FB's as fast as a 5 aps char can do. When I watch a 5 aps toon kill bosses rarely see them use actual skills other than a twitch auto attack spark macro.

My point with duel client would be extra lag. Even if you have an amazing compurer a second of spike lag from connection is so much worst

I understand that but it wasn't relevent to the point I was making avout manipulating both a veno and a pet at the same time when each has separate skill sets on separate skill bars. It's too bad PWE didn't allow venos to add pet skills and controls to a macro. That would be cool.

Cody_tylor - Sanctuary wrote: »

Yeah, my post is so meaningless... My werefox AOE melee and ranged mobs without a herc (i don't even have a herc), and my pets are too squishy to tank . Magic defense pretty low but not as low as BM's. Maybe you need to use fox form? lol

Am I supposed to be impressed? I mean I put HA on my veno and run around in fox form and lure mobs in frost and GV too but that's as irrelevent to the topic as the price of rice in China.... move on.....b:surrender

Honestly I couldn't care less who can solo what. I've even seen EP's that can solo some HH bosses. My issue is that I feel that the spirit of the game has been seriously compromised due to the lack of challenge in certain aspects of the game that is meant to be a challenge. HH, NV, Frost, Lunar, Trophy Mode FBs, etc. You name it. The rewards of these instances support that ideology because they're supposed to be hard to get. The APS issue is but one of a few that has really been a thorn in my game. It's sad to witness a vast majority of the game is being skipped over because PWE made a business decision to focus making revenue off of end-game content rather than content that encourage players to progress through the game as it was originally designed. Some still do that but a great many don't. It's great that PWE focused the expansion on endgame content but at the rate we're going with the game in it's current state even the expansion may not be enough to retain the challenge it's meant to be.

Vital_Slash - Sanctuary · February 2012

APS May be a ugly stain on this game. But Eventually, you'll miss it. BM's Unable to tank like a Barb beacuse they have no way of keeping Agrro to themselves, Barb's Being the Ones who cant Tank Since Sins and BM's steal Agrro. Aps may had Replaced my Favorite Class but Putting it in PVE Context and Not only PVP Context is a good thing. Now-a-Days, a BM and a Sin can tank your Dreadful BH's and stuff because of 5 aps. You wont have to lounge around and wait to Bribe a Barb to come into your Squad (Bribing also Includes Clerics).

Quilue - Sanctuary · February 2012

Jadsia - Lost City wrote: »

Again I'm not talking just any game. I'm talking about this one. If what you're saying is supposed to be true then why would anyone want to make a char in a class that is naturally nerfed with respect to another class? It doesn't make sense because it destroys competion between classes. You're starting to make my point for me though.

Because there is value in being able to attack from range...just not as noticeable when you're attacking stationary targets with large hp pools. It's only a shame that PvE here is dominated by stationary bosses with large amount of hp.

Do we really need to go over the advantages of being ranged? Jone's Bless and R9 doesn't point out the advantages clearly enough to someone on a PvP server?

Tearing through NV in under 4 minutes is almost god-like. So is solo'ing Frost and Trophy mode FB's as fast as a 5 aps char can do. When I watch a 5 aps toon kill bosses rarely see them use actual skills other than a twitch auto attack spark macro.

Physical attacks have always been the most efficient form of DPS for any physical class. The only skill any physical DD should be using is debuffs and amps, and I don't think any BM or sin here are dumb enough to not amp. Actually if you are ever part of the faster NV runs, you would notice the amount of debuffs, amps and genie skills that gets spammed so a boss can die as quickly as possible.

I've had a spark macro ever since I realized what TT was... The only thing a lowered max APS would do is make DDs twitch less...but DD classes have always pretty much had some variation of spark or amp macro. Nothing else to do but stare at the screen. Hell clerics had a macro too (IH wellspring...), or just go into BB. Basically the whole squad activates some sort of macro and sits there...sometimes people even fall asleep. There are bosses that needed puri or had periods of random aggro, but most bosses were repetitive and boring. You obviously don't remember how crappy PvE was before. The PvE here simply needs to be less dominated by the stationary bosses with large amounts of hp.

oralungo · February 2012

hmm lets see wat happen if

-aps still same
more ppl will making aps for farming. first they do it with friend. then ppl starting making support char.. in this case it will be barb-cleric class the most.. sins for BP if his main is BM.. in the end every1 will doing everyithing alone... game become more boring bcoz u doing everything alone..
new player will be hard to farming n force to buy from old player.. its hard find squad for farming since high lvl choose to do it alone.. more coins.. sum will stay but i think much more will left..
game not developing

-aps nerfe
we already feel it.. at least for ppl who been playing from begining.. mean TT squad will be difficult to do allone.. ppl starting making full squad for farming.. claz magic like wiz/psy/cleric/myst will hv more chance to develop..
this time ppl skill on his char will be more ++ than aps.. ofc it will take more time.. but it will be more fun.. showing off not on aps.. but will be on skill.. like timing for spark/AD/ using skill.. (in this case like when we survived from slash bos FC).. ppl will starting to learn his char more..

for me ill choose aps nerf.. the nerf aps look promised...

Aubree - Dreamweaver · February 2012

gallax13th wrote: »

You tell me, did anyone else hear about this?

Been hearing about this for 50 years.

FanFon - Dreamweaver · February 2012

Jadsia - Lost City wrote: »

Again I'm not talking just any game. I'm talking about this one. If what you're saying is supposed to be true then why would anyone want to make a char in a class that is naturally nerfed with respect to another class? It doesn't make sense because it destroys competion between classes. You're starting to make my point for me though.

Tearing through NV in under 4 minutes is almost god-like. So is solo'ing Frost and Trophy mode FB's as fast as a 5 aps char can do. When I watch a 5 aps toon kill bosses rarely see them use actual skills other than a twitch auto attack spark macro.

I understand that but it wasn't relevent to the point I was making avout manipulating both a veno and a pet at the same time when each has separate skill sets on separate skill bars.

It's too bad PWE didn't allow venos to add pet skills and controls to a macro. That would be cool.

All classes are naturally nerfed to the respected class is the point. It is true in this game to, and no i am not making your point i'm promoting class imbalance in certain areas as it should be, while you on the other hand; wish for things to just balance out in nearly every aspect.

Aps squads arn't the only ones tearing through nirvys in breakneck speeds. Even 5 aps toons need dph(if they want to aoe mobs) and hp (only need like 4k hp to solo frost really but more for aoe) to solo frost efficiently and even the more so in trophy mode. Yes they twitch bosses to death but they still use skills. Aps can be relatively in effective in pvp. My point is a +2,3 refined 5 aps toon with +10 end game weapon with no sage/demon skills are not a gods. They are glass cannons unable to to anything effective in any high level content.

It is totally relevant I was pointing out that operating 2 windows isn't as streamlined as controlling a pet. You can't control 2 windows at once it is an either or situation where you must switch windows and if you change the window size by accident you have a black screen

Macroing pet skills would be awesome but that is really old code the new devs would never touch.

Jadsia - Lost City wrote: »

Honestly I couldn't care less who can solo what. I've even seen EP's that can solo some HH bosses. My issue is that I feel that the spirit of the game has been seriously compromised due to the lack of challenge in certain aspects of the game that is meant to be a challenge. HH, NV, Frost, Lunar, Trophy Mode FBs, etc. You name it. The rewards of these instances support that ideology because they're supposed to be hard to get. The APS issue is but one of a few that has really been a thorn in my game. It's sad to witness a vast majority of the game is being skipped over because PWE made a business decision to focus making revenue off of end-game content rather than content that encourage players to progress through the game as it was originally designed. Some still do that but a great many don't. It's great that PWE focused the expansion on endgame content but at the rate we're going with the game in it's current state even the expansion may not be enough to retain the challenge it's meant to be.

You should go do trials

oralungo wrote: »

-aps nerfe
we already feel it.. at least for ppl who been playing from begining.. mean TT squad will be difficult to do allone.. ppl starting making full squad for farming.. claz magic like wiz/psy/cleric/myst will hv more chance to develop..
this time ppl skill on his char will be more ++ than aps.. ofc it will take more time.. but it will be more fun.. showing off not on aps.. but will be on skill.. like timing for spark/AD/ using skill.. (in this case like when we survived from slash bos FC).. ppl will starting to learn his char more..

for me ill choose aps nerf.. the nerf aps look promised...

Once again aps has some influence with leveling it is hypers and fc that contribute the most. Yes you may improve the standard noob a little bit but fail will still be on the raise.

I'm sorry but your little dream of a rainbow squad in tt would not happen in this situation. As we are now we take magic classes in to tt no biggie. Take away the aps and the dd chain will resurface. not only that squad hierarchy will be reestablished.

squads will look like this---> 1.barb 2.cleric/mystic 3.bm 4.sin
Oh there are 2 spots open i wonder what they will be filled in with. Hmmmmmm take other casters? Maybe a veno with defuffs and a herc for the 5th spot, but the other casters **** no.

XxRagzxx - Sanctuary · February 2012

APS is the reason why half the Archers, Wizzies, Psys, ect... are able to stay alive. You hate APS sooo much, yet if there wasn't aps, all you pure citrine arcane classes, and archers who have no def, would be dead on the ground from not having the def to tank a few hits when you pull agro. APS is part of the game now. Caster vana is by far more profit per run than an APS squads, so I really don't see why everyone still has problems with it. Hell, even trials is more for skill oriented classes rather than spark macro, go afk.

Michael_Dark - Lost City · February 2012

XxRagzxx - Sanctuary wrote: »

APS is the reason why half the Archers, Wizzies, Psys, ect... are able to stay alive. You hate APS sooo much, yet if there wasn't aps, all you pure citrine arcane classes, and archers who have no def, would be dead on the ground from not having the def to tank a few hits when you pull agro. APS is part of the game now. Caster vana is by far more profit per run than an APS squads, so I really don't see why everyone still has problems with it. Hell, even trials is more for skill oriented classes rather than spark macro, go afk.

There is no logic to APS rage. Just the very mention of the word makes battered wives/husbands twitch like their SO is gonna beat them again.

Even if APS was completely nurfed, there would still be people raging about it.

b:cute

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver · February 2012

XxRagzxx - Sanctuary wrote: »

APS is the reason why half the Archers, Wizzies, Psys, ect... are able to stay alive. You hate APS sooo much, yet if there wasn't aps, all you pure citrine arcane classes, and archers who have no def, would be dead on the ground from not having the def to tank a few hits when you pull agro. APS is part of the game now. Caster vana is by far more profit per run than an APS squads, so I really don't see why everyone still has problems with it. Hell, even trials is more for skill oriented classes rather than spark macro, go afk.

Pretty sure (in fact I know for a fact) that non-aps squads stay alive just fine without you guys. Now you could legitimately argue prices for things would go because of supply going down if there were no aps. But I got news for you, any tank can do that whole keeping squad alive job. And APS isn't what's keeping others alive. This also would imply that these guys are in squads with wizzies, psys, etc. Which they clearly aren't. So how is someone who you aren't running with keeping you alive in an instance?

XxRagzxx - Sanctuary · February 2012

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Pretty sure (in fact I know for a fact) that non-aps squads stay alive just fine without you guys. Now you could legitimately argue prices for things would go because of supply going down if there were no aps. But I got news for you, any tank can do that whole keeping squad alive job. And APS isn't what's keeping others alive. This also would imply that these guys are in squads with wizzies, psys, etc. Which they clearly aren't. So how is someone who you aren't running with keeping you alive in an instance?

I'm guessing you haven't seen any barbs around with less than 11k HP in tiger form, and the only thing they are good for are buffing and dying, or barbs that don't even try to keep agro to tank in nonaps squads. Not to mention all the clerics who rather buy fashion, than refine a weapon, or at least get a decent one to heal with. IMO, this game isn't about depending on others for anything. It's about you trying to advance as far as you can on your own, or with 1 other person. Full squads can't do what a sin by themselves or a sin/bm/barb/archer that's APS with a cleric. The game has changed, if you want to spend hours in ONE instance for mats for your armor, than this game ISN'T for you. I don't understand how it's so hard to adapt to a game, or gtfo.

APS Nerf, <-RUMOR

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