Community's opinion on APS [Poll]

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  • RADD_RATT - Harshlands
    RADD_RATT - Harshlands Posts: 349 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »


    If you are struggling fighting archers you must be the world's most terrible sin. You should just quit now cause a trained monkey can play your class better than you can.

    WHOA WHOA WHOOOAAA!!! i never said im struggling wih archers
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    And you're welcome to that opinion, but you speak as if said arrogance isn't still rampant. I've seen arrogance from every class on too many occasions to blame the old dependencies.

    I still have to say that I have seen much fewer "Free wine for cleric/barb!" WCs lately.

    And I have to say that I'm personally starting to see the uselessness of a barb. As it is, the only good things a barb can do for me is pull and back me up on bosses. By back up I mean that I can Shadow Escape if I'm about to die without having to worry about squad wipes.
    If anything, DDs have become far more arrogant in the knowledge that they have the APS to not be refused by the "5-minute-attention-span" Nirvana squads.

    I think it's actually good as it is. Previously, if you were a DD, you'd be a filler character in a squad: in TTs, you got last pick unless you subbed or were in a gear-farming squad.
    Ironically enough, the same general solution to said arrogance applies: find some good friends / a faction who won't hold your class, gear, etc. against you.

    Well, I'm a Sage sin so I'll never really be in the higher tier of APS. However, exactly because I am a Sage sin, I have people actually asking me to get to 100 so they could get me to Nirvana. I also have a friend whose BM is currently 4 aps and after asking about his DPS I found out that I'd out-DPS him with just 2.22 aps.
    Oh, it doesn't personally affect me (since when I do ever hit 100, I'll be going with friends who are more than happy to do it normally). But Cadeal was remarking about the state of WCs for Nirvana squads, and that's the attitude they tend to display. *shrug*

    Well of course, Nirvana squads are like that. People don't really do Nirvana to farm their gear anymore, because of the amount of time it'd take. So it's just a moneyrun and that's where profit/time comes in. I do have to wonder how will things go when I start WCing myself for Nirvanas, what with being a Sage sin.
    I mean, you could make the argument that said 100+ casters should really just find a good faction/FL to call on (and I do), but... well, if you're gonna talk about arrogance, you need to look no further than the people who make those WCs

    Well I'd wager that a lot of those WCs aren't actually high aps squads looking for members, but mediocre squads looking for that one character that'd boost their DDing up. After all, anyone knows that all of the big high APS people are a pretty close circle. And they really have no need to WC.

    And really, if you look at it, most classes can get a place in Nirvana:
    Clerics can heal if there's no Sage BP
    Barbarians can go claws
    BMs got fists
    Archers can go claws
    Venos got amp

    The ones left out are Seekers, Psychics, Mystics and Wizards. Well yeah, that is pretty much all casters, but that's just how it is. On the other hand, those casters are pretty damn good in TW, so that should fuel them up: being a TW God means you'll be a force any TW faction would want and unless you have good gear you'll be useless. Should lead to people wanting to help you gear up.

    And really, if you already have a Nirvana run with a Cleric and some 4-5 aps DDs, there's no reason you couldn't take a deadweight there as well, other than it being a slight bother. People not doing that is what this game is most ugly for: People are extremely result-oriented. And that's really no one's fault.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • Rawrgh - Raging Tide
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide Posts: 6,790 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    To be fair though you're pretty squishy for a barb b:chuckle




    If you are struggling fighting archers you must be the world's most terrible sin. You should just quit now cause a trained monkey can play your class better than you can.
    Hence my point of trading PvP functionality for PvE.


    I could have built my character pure vit, focused the money I've spent on my aps build on higher refines, better shards. Hell I could probably have a +10 G15 cube neck with the money I've spent on my claws alone. But I choose to sacrifice that for PvE ability. Is it worth it? Well that's up to the player to decide.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."
  • ColdSnow - Dreamweaver
    ColdSnow - Dreamweaver Posts: 983 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    The ones left out are Seekers, Psychics, Mystics and Wizards. Well yeah, that is pretty much all casters, but that's just how it is. On the other hand, those casters are pretty damn good in TW, so that should fuel them up: being a TW God means you'll be a force any TW faction would want and unless you have good gear you'll be useless. Should lead to people wanting to help you gear up.

    And really, if you already have a Nirvana run with a Cleric and some 4-5 aps DDs, there's no reason you couldn't take a deadweight there as well, other than it being a slight bother. People not doing that is what this game is most ugly for: People are extremely result-oriented. And that's really no one's fault.


    What about people who dont TW? PvE should be the base, not the once-a-week-event. I dont like to TW, for me its useless bs, filled with to much Drama before and after.
    If i m trolling and spamming on forum...then i cant sleep and need a good laugh
  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    Aren't these type of threads banned?
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    ColdSnow - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    What about people who dont TW? PvE should be the base, not the once-a-week-event. I dont like to TW, for me its useless bs, filled with to much Drama before and after.

    Well in that case you're pretty much stuck to afking at endgame.

    Because really, once you've climbed to 100, there's nothing except improving your gear and PvP. That's how most games with a PvE and a PvP aspect work: PvP is generally the endgame whereas PvE is the start and midgame.

    And there's really nothing you can do about that. Heck, even I end up in trouble because I can hardly attend TW due to my timezone and I don't PvP, so getting a decent faction is kinda hard.

    And really, the casters-suck-in-nirvana thing is just people being excessively result-oriented. That's just because the game is just that competitive. However, you can get around that, too. You don't actually have to nirvana at all, as you can merchant all the coin and just buy the gear.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • Elviron - Dreamweaver
    Elviron - Dreamweaver Posts: 812 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    Ok trick question here...

    At lvl100+ how many of those that are facing challenges in joining a WC NV squad have none of the following:-

    1.) Friends you can run with
    2.) Factionmates you can run with
    3.) Have access to an APS char yourself
    4.) Have other methods to acquire NV gears (CSing, Merchanting, grinding, etc)
  • Azura - Lost City
    Azura - Lost City Posts: 2,281 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    I wonder if people will ever stop qqing about the attack rate... There are more important things to qq about, but you are still stuck on this.
    [SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=929114001&dateline=1398892224[/SIGPIC]
  • ColdSnow - Dreamweaver
    ColdSnow - Dreamweaver Posts: 983 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Well in that case you're pretty much stuck to afking at endgame.

    Because really, once you've climbed to 100, there's nothing except improving your gear and PvP. That's how most games with a PvE and a PvP aspect work: PvP is generally the endgame whereas PvE is the start and midgame.

    And there's really nothing you can do about that. Heck, even I end up in trouble because I can hardly attend TW due to my timezone and I don't PvP, so getting a decent faction is kinda hard.

    And really, the casters-suck-in-nirvana thing is just people being excessively result-oriented. That's just because the game is just that competitive. However, you can get around that, too. You don't actually have to nirvana at all, as you can merchant all the coin and just buy the gear.

    My main goal at end game is to get better gear, so i can do nirvanas, TTs, then sell mats and support my alts, they cant do same things as i do and cost alot. Well i'm not melee type and never liked it, so i will probably never do an aps bm or sin, cause i dont want to spend my time and money on a class which i dislike to play just for "money", then i rather quit.

    You talk here about PvP aspect but i m on PvE server and TW is only once a week. So i dont find it very productive to spend money on something that is once a week. PvE should be always the base in first place, when it comes to classes and their skills.
    If BM gets 5aps to kill bosses (worldbosses get wiped only by aps nowadays) faster, to make more money then a wiz should get same, cause without good gear he is useless in PvE AND PvP.
    If i m trolling and spamming on forum...then i cant sleep and need a good laugh
  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    ColdSnow - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    If BM gets 5aps to kill bosses (worldbosses get wiped only by aps nowadays) faster, to make more money then a wiz should get same, cause without good gear he is useless in PvE AND PvP.

    And if a Wiz can one shot 10 people in TW, BM should get the same. If TW is not the aspect of the game you like, tough, it's an aspect of the game. And where do you think BM got the coins to get interval gears in the first place? He certainly didn't farm it faster than Caster at 1.67 APS.
  • ColdSnow - Dreamweaver
    ColdSnow - Dreamweaver Posts: 983 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »
    And if a Wiz can one shot 10 people in TW, BM should get the same. If TW is not the aspect of the game you like, tough, it's an aspect of the game. And where do you think BM got the coins to get interval gears in the first place? He certainly didn't farm it faster than Caster at 1.67 APS.

    you didnt get it, i said in previous posts to give casters something to work on as well, like BM worked for their lunar capes and nirvanas. Thats why i said to leave 5aps alone, but to make other classes equal to it.
    i didnt say to make it standard to all casters skills right away. cause even with -50 channel, a caster will never do same damage on boss as an 5aps.
    PvP is useless for me and i dont think i m the only one here, who choses factions regardless if they do TW or not. neither i m not the only one who never goes pk mode. TW is not a must. PvE is.
    If i m trolling and spamming on forum...then i cant sleep and need a good laugh
  • Asthariel - Dreamweaver
    Asthariel - Dreamweaver Posts: 498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    Zenorx - Harshlands wrote: »
    Says the lvl 100 EG probably FC'd 2 100 by another 5 aps char..... b:bye

    LOL I wouldn't have any money to throw in paying anyone to do the job. How did I do ? I have a 101 cleric, I formed traditional full FC squad, brought in my mystic and did alt FC normally til 78. At 78 I started doing regular FCs on him everyday in regular squads.
    [SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=8149449007&dateline=1299646202[/SIGPIC]
  • Lyritha - Heavens Tear
    Lyritha - Heavens Tear Posts: 447 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    given the outcome which will be to **** people who invested in gear off the best thing to do is to not mess with how the game acts toward the interval but rather edit the instances so you cannot just live on just interval alone.

    Instead adjusting the attack values PVP wise of every class for a more balanced result
    and changing every end game instance to make it so simply punching a boss to death will not be the quickest route to killing it.

    However some people would cry about this it is the only way.

    Now I am not talking simply making the boss sleep you or seal... those were failed concepts.... how about making a boss spawn adds that can only be damaged by elements (varying elements) and until then the boss is immune to damage b:laugh
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    This.

    Thread.

    Again.

    /facepalm
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • Rawrgh - Raging Tide
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide Posts: 6,790 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    given the outcome which will be to **** people who invested in gear off the best thing to do is to not mess with how the game acts toward the interval but rather edit the instances so you cannot just live on just interval alone.

    They tried that, now you have to have a 5 aps squad to complete 3-3.

    how about making a boss spawn adds that can only be damaged by elements (varying elements) and until then the boss is immune to damage


    DBB

    Poison fang

    Elemental damage apoth.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."
  • Knownase - Heavens Tear
    Knownase - Heavens Tear Posts: 6,959 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    Lyritha - Heavens Tear wrote: »

    how about making a boss spawn adds that can only be damaged by elements (varying elements) and until then the boss is immune to damage b:laugh

    This might fail as well. APS user can just use elemental atk buffs from Apoth, as well as some classes having self elemental buffs as well.


    I killed the phy immune boss in Aba with my wood buff, as well as keeping aggro from the casters in squad.

    Edit: Rawrgh summed it up basically.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    b:flowerHave a Techno Rave Flower!b:flower

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  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    Knownase - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    This might fail as well. APS user can just use elemental atk buffs from Apoth, as well as some classes having self elemental buffs as well.


    I killed the phy immune boss in Aba with my wood buff, as well as keeping aggro from the casters in squad.

    Edit: Rawrgh summed it up basically.

    Archers got Blazing Arrow, Sins got Condensed Thorn, barbs got Poison Fang, BMs got DBB.

    So the elemental wouldn't work. If it wasn't weak to any of those, you could get it with apos.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • Altamiria - Heavens Tear
    Altamiria - Heavens Tear Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    Knownase - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    This might fail as well. APS user can just use elemental atk buffs from Apoth, as well as some classes having self elemental buffs as well.


    I killed the phy immune boss in Aba with my wood buff, as well as keeping aggro from the casters in squad.

    Edit: Rawrgh summed it up basically.

    that with the addition of soul of vengeance and bramble on the boss... after it is purged it waits the cool down for the skill for purge and recasts bramble... but vengeance does not purge b:laugh

    if the squad has more than 3 APS users bramble hood is used instead

    now this will totally work
  • Rawrgh - Raging Tide
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide Posts: 6,790 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    Altamiria - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    that with the addition of soul of vengeance and bramble on the boss... after it is purged it waits the cool down for the skill for purge and recasts bramble... but vengeance does not purge b:laugh

    if the squad has more than 3 APS users bramble hood is used instead

    now this will totally work
    So you aren't content with being able to do as much as a DPS, you want all melees to be completely useless?


    If all bosses have bramble/soul of vengeance then only casters will be able to tank.

    GL with that.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."
  • Lyritha - Heavens Tear
    Lyritha - Heavens Tear Posts: 447 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »
    So you aren't content with being able to do as much as a DPS, you want all melees to be completely useless?


    If all bosses have bramble/soul of vengeance then only casters will be able to tank.

    GL with that.

    not true... one of those nice purge poles will work... but it will cause you to have to actually stop punching momentarily while the buff is up... basically it will make it slower... keep in mind said buff also reduces damage taken so casters wouldn't tank either. Basically it would mean you would need more of a balanced squad rather than just grabbing anything with APS.
  • Xarathox - Dreamweaver
    Xarathox - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,657 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    Lyritha - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    not true... one of those nice purge poles will work... but it will cause you to have to actually stop punching momentarily while the buff is up... basically it will make it slower... keep in mind said buff also reduces damage taken so casters wouldn't tank either. Basically it would mean you would need more of a balanced squad rather than just grabbing anything with APS.

    And then Barbs start charging 500k a spot to tank since we're the only ones able to survive bramble w/o purge.

    GL with that.
    Some people risk to employ me

    Some people live to destroy me

    Either way they die
  • Rawrgh - Raging Tide
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide Posts: 6,790 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    Not really, just bramble would mean 5 APS users and a veno.


    And then Barbs start charging 500k a spot to tank since we're the only ones able to survive bramble w/o purge.

    GL with that.


    This.


    Remember all those Q_Q threads a while back with people crying about the "drop order" of tank > cleric > DDs by level? Yea, imagine that only 10 times worse.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."
  • Cadeal - Dreamweaver
    Cadeal - Dreamweaver Posts: 162 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »
    This.

    Thread.

    Again.

    /facepalm

    I managed to quell it for awhile with logic, but now it seems that everyone's out for blood, and has repeated itself with the exact same argument as a few dozen pages back
  • Dpicic - Harshlands
    Dpicic - Harshlands Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    Its really sad that ppl tend to forget real reason why to play MMOs...

    ofc we all wants to be the best and get the best gear we can for our class but does any1 remembers beginning? when u have just started to play game? Talking to ppl, makin friends...doing stuff together...I mean..who cares if some instance run takes "forever" if u have fun? CAUSE FUN IS MAIN REASON TO PLAY ****ING GAME..
    when I was 80+...I was on fc run with friends...crazy squad..no bm, no barb (there was no eg expanison )....run was 4 hours and we even didnt finished run...(we were at exp room boss when instance reseted)...
    thing is that was BEST run EVER...my jaw was in pain, stomach too..I shed tears how hard I laughed..we had few squad wipes cause we were all typing or leavin squad and killin each otherb:chuckle

    what I want to say is F.U.C.K. APS ..F.U.C.K. R9 ...TRY TO ENJOY IN JUST PLAYIN THE GAME..
    give me few enough crazy ppl who loves to have fun and I can do anything...

    ijs..aps is not broken...rank is not broken...even SIN is not broken (even tho I hate sins xD)..

    PLAYERS ARE BROKEN


    b:bye
    "When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car."
  • RouxLouka - Dreamweaver
    RouxLouka - Dreamweaver Posts: 511 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    They should just revamp the whole boss system. If a boss gets attacked by too much aps, it has a chance to go berserk for a few seconds. This way DDs have to lower their aps for a safe easy run, or risk their lives to do it in a fraction of the time. It would solve the problem of having to constantly buff bosses to compensate for aps and making it more difficult for casters to participate.

    There is nothing that can be done to the pvp aspect of it other than lowering it.
    /quit.

    </3 All packs/Awful community.
  • Cadeal - Dreamweaver
    Cadeal - Dreamweaver Posts: 162 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    RouxLouka - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    They should just revamp the whole boss system. If a boss gets attacked by too much aps, it has a chance to go berserk for a few seconds. This way DDs have to lower their aps for a safe easy run, or risk their lives to do it in a fraction of the time. It would solve the problem of having to constantly buff bosses to compensate for aps and making it more difficult for casters to participate.

    There is nothing that can be done to the pvp aspect of it other than lowering it.

    I hate repeating myself, but... why are you upset over a melee class having the ability to tank things easier? Why do you have it against a cleric for getting what they wanted for so long? All I remember before the APS issue was how a cleric fails for not being able to keep up, or how a barb fails for not being able to over tank a DD. But now that they can do it easier, you want it to go away, and the TT runs to go back to 2-3-4 hours long?

    I remember clerics whining all the time because they were being used as "healing Batteries" and treated as such, but now, that they dont have that stigma over their heads they complain about it being gone?

    Do you want to go back to running up huge charm costs/repair bills?


    Lowering APS in a PVP situation wont fix balance, it will throw off the balance further. Do you seriously know how hard it is for a BM or barb to get into range to attack a wizard? By the time they get there, they're either dead, in recovery and quite able to be one shot, or are still chasing them after they've blinked away. Casters NEED to be a victim if a melee class gets into range, because we're victims to you if we are anywhere near you.

    I understand you dont like APS, but it gives certain classes a tiny lead into a fight where they'll get completely obliterated.

    I dont support APS, but I also dont support people being angry at it, because there's really no purpose in it.

    Love it, or hate it, if you didn't learn your class, its not everyone elses problem if you dont know how to fend off a melee class, which yes, ANY caster can.

    And dont say, "but a Sin can cloak and can 5.0 me from stealth."

    That is NOT a problem with 5.0 and you know it. and further, you know as well as anyone that you can one shot a sin, you just want an advantage over them, even though they bring balance to PK, and, AND, give clerics what they've always complained about, being able to Damage deal.
  • Cadeal - Dreamweaver
    Cadeal - Dreamweaver Posts: 162 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    b:angry *drives my sword deep into the heart of the APS thread* DIE!!!!!!
  • illestrealist
    illestrealist Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    Cadeal - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Casters NEED to be a victim if a melee class gets into range, because we're victims to you if we are anywhere near you.

    The truest statement in this whole thread.
    I salute you.
    Good or bad, I will tell it like it is.
  • Baalbak - Dreamweaver
    Baalbak - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,624 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    its just the way the math works out. i see nothing fair or unfair about any of it to be honest. PvE wise, more APS makes farming faster - no more 3 hour + TT runs (for which i am thankful). PvP wise, sure a 5.0 can rock your world pretty quick. BUT.. try getting equivalently geared to those 5.0 players and it doesn't seem as big of a problem anymore. I'm not the best geared barb out there, but against rank 8 / tt99 and even some people with a couple pieces of nirvana, I can stand my ground pretty well especially if charmed and have my wits about me.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Retired..
  • _Aubree__ - Dreamweaver
    _Aubree__ - Dreamweaver Posts: 197 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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    TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »
    Yes clerics should have same DPS since its also a DD-class...b:embarrass

    Why would you even make a R9 cleric to solo bosses/instances in pve lol

    Sins are of course broken in every aspect of the game, but thats more related to skills than aps. Most endgame sins doesn't give a **** about max aps in PvP, they rely on zerk and attack levels and just 1-2 shots everyone from stealth.

    @topic: If you think APS is problem, you most likely haven't played this game for a very long time or you never played it more than casually. Majority of long term players already have one or even two 5.0 chars for PvE by now. Its called adjusting and they dont wanna go back to spending 20 minutes killing 1 boss b:surrender.

    Than they use archer/psy/wiz for Mass-PvP and TW since ranged classes (specially with R9) are superior in that area compared to meles. Classes are good for different things in this game, not saying thats a good thing tho.

    and...
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Maybe because that's not what your character is built for? Because it seems like that's all you are complaining about.

    The more effort you put into your character the better it is at doing what you build it for. Did you build your character to solo bosses? No you didn't because you choose a class that isn't built for that.


    Your character IS better at what you chose to build it for, but don't build a character to do something and then complain when it can't do something else.



    Read again so you dont feel so foolish. I was merely disproving his point about coin/cash spent = to the rewards. At no where did I say I should have this or that..

    I bolded it for you so you can keep up b:cute
    _Aubree__ - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Level 103 cleric and I voted no. By your assumption if I spent as much you on my gear, I should be every bit as good. But it isn't true. Dragons orbs cost me the same as you, but I will never reach the same damage out put with equivalent gears and refines. I have +10 r9 and just as many channeling pieces as an -int user would need for 5aps, but I will never be able to solo a boss in as much time as it takes aps people. And sins should be capped at 2.22 imo.

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