You cant un-scramble an egg

Well, at least for barbs, I would happily take a rout that just made it more realistic to tank an aps player pvp. So higher defense, and Hp bonuses from gear, or stats would be an acceptable trade off to me.

For pve, just make fleshreme as OP as aps, (aggro mechanics ). I can't for see too many DD's complaining about a barb's weakest damage skill getting an overhaul to keep up with them.

I don't know if these are easy to implement into the game, i'm not a programmer so just my two cents.

I would love wb tanks to come back. APS has been around for quite a while and isn't a mistake. It just became to easy to get. The difference between Problem A and Problem B is if problem B happens only the 10x's who can't play would quit so I say go with that.

Edit addition: Why not remove bloodpaint so at least they need a healer again? I have noticed on LC, idk about other servers, that ep's have become a rare find anymore. Self healing is a joke from punching/stabbing something anyway.

Overpower everything else to match 5APS' overpowering.

It'll be equal again then.

If you want to fix something that's fundamentally broken, you need to return to the fundamentals of it. The APS cap remaining at 5 is the heart of the problem, and the issue will not go away until it is lowered. All other suggestions I've seen would cause further issues and not fix the problem itself.

"ALOT" of people will NOT quit over this. Even some of the APS users on this board admit that it is one of the PW devs' failures. We've had enough **** thrown at us in the last year or two that fixing something that's actually broken won't hurt us that badly.

If nothing else, they should fix it as a "may as well" strategy, because this game as a business is not sustainable as-is.

amandisha74 wrote: »

Game isn't sustainable and I have invested two years and SOME money, not enough to be any good apperently. but lately the game has become frustrating to me. They have all these classes, and all these areas and mobs to go hunt. Yet there really isn't any point in going to them or interacting with them.

Would it help to have regular mobs provide better rewards so that some of the weaker classes can actually get some rare stuff to?

I'm kind of old school grinder, I would like to see mobs be more entertaining to hunt. if not more money rewards least some rewards for like braging rights.. like medals or trophies and stuff for performing certain tasks.

Maybe the answer isn't to gimp aps, but make them less needed by providing alternate content for classes so they can go off and have fun without them if need be.

I dunno somthings broken if I'm out trolling the board instead of playing.

I strongly agree with u

amandisha74 wrote: »

Game isn't sustainable and I have invested two years and SOME money, not enough to be any good apperently. but lately the game has become frustrating to me. They have all these classes, and all these areas and mobs to go hunt. Yet there really isn't any point in going to them or interacting with them.

Would it help to have regular mobs provide better rewards so that some of the weaker classes can actually get some rare stuff to?

I'm kind of old school grinder, I would like to see mobs be more entertaining to hunt. if not more money rewards least some rewards for like braging rights.. like medals or trophies and stuff for performing certain tasks.

Maybe the answer isn't to gimp aps, but make them less needed by providing alternate content for classes so they can go off and have fun without them if need be.

I dunno somthings broken if I'm out trolling the board instead of playing.

Ah, I agree too. There was an MMO I played where certain bosses would spawn randomly, but were pretty hard. If you were able to kill it, you got a special title over your head, which also gave bonuses depending on ths boss. Like +x amount of hp, or attack or something. I think that would be really cool. And maybe adding more achievments that would actually be worth trying for, along with putting the achievement system ingame. Core is pretty unreliable with telling you what you have. >.<

amandisha74 wrote: »

Game isn't sustainable and I have invested two years and SOME money, not enough to be any good apperently. but lately the game has become frustrating to me. They have all these classes, and all these areas and mobs to go hunt. Yet there really isn't any point in going to them or interacting with them.

Would it help to have regular mobs provide better rewards so that some of the weaker classes can actually get some rare stuff to?

I'm kind of old school grinder, I would like to see mobs be more entertaining to hunt. if not more money rewards least some rewards for like braging rights.. like medals or trophies and stuff for performing certain tasks.

Maybe the answer isn't to gimp aps, but make them less needed by providing alternate content for classes so they can go off and have fun without them if need be.

I dunno somthings broken if I'm out trolling the board instead of playing.

I agree 100%. If we can't get into Nirvana because we are unwanted lame APS types, give us something else.... but something where a group of 5APS isn't going to make a difference. And I too, for the most part, have always enjoyed questing and grinding... I wouldn't mind some mobs (at least certain ones) being more profitable and perhaps more challenging even.

Jellytoast - Sanctuary wrote: »

Ah, I agree too. There was an MMO I played where certain bosses would spawn randomly, but were pretty hard. If you were able to kill it, you got a special title over your head, which also gave bonuses depending on ths boss. Like +x amount of hp, or attack or something. I think that would be really cool. And maybe adding more achievments that would actually be worth trying for, along with putting the achievement system ingame. Core is pretty unreliable with telling you what you have. >.<

Could be interesting as long as it was actually random spawns.... everything planned is camped and killed by the 5APS types. >.>

Make a new instance that requires a rainbow squad to farm, one that gives better exp than fc and better gear than other instances. Make it really, really hard. Make it so that only 9x+ can even hope to get in there (that way the other instances are still valuable) by use of a team level cap. Make the gear comparable to rank 9, without it being better than it. Something that people can farm and compete with rank 9 players without being one shotted, but still allows rank 9 to be the best gear in game. Make it take an insane amount of runs to get the good armor, so that the costs are comparable to anything a 5aps can farm but just as good. Make it give rewards that are similar to the trophy, tickets you can turn in for class specific goodies. Such as +hate, axes for barbs, or -chan +Def Level (a comparable, but smaller amount than rank 9 gives) for casters. Make the weapons add new skills, such as the wand that adds purify in the faction bases. Instead of purify though, let them include a bramble type skill. Not as a good as a veno bramble skill, and certainly not things like amp/purge. But something that you could use to defend yourself against them. Include a +detection level skill so that they can only hide from are people lower level than them. Include a 105 set of armor to make up for the drawbacks of reaching that point so that more people will have incentive to be beat the darn game. Make some of the bosses require a wizard tank for example (phys immune) and some a proper barb tank (elemental immune) that way this gear takes time and effort to obtain and requires working together with multiple classes and can't be farmed by an aps squad. Don't even let a squad consisting of less than four classes enter. Sure the aps people could still be taken on as two of you're dds, but you would still need more than them. Finally, put some good alternatives to aps gear out there so that every sin doesn't HAVE to go aps to compete. That way there will be more diversity in PVP.



This instance should not take away all the 5aps power in the things they do well, just give an option to those that are not 5aps and who knows maybe even gives a 5aps sin who is bored with the game now something else to do besides merchanting.

Kinjeto - Raging Tide wrote: »

If you want to 'learn by example' I could give a certain development team a few hints. There is a monster in FB99 called "The Haunted Headless" that has PHYSICIAL IMMUNE that is only kill-able with a Cleric and a Mage. Which I've had the pleasure of dispatching with Fenrae from another guild on Raging Tide.

Well, not quite true. My squad's done it with a cleric, veno, psy, sin, archer...and I forget the last, if we had a 6th. The two melees used apoth pots that gave them elemental damage, and with their 5aps, they still tanked and did the most damage. Once we got used to doing it, timing heals and such, the boss dropped so quickly, with no casulties on our side...

Point of my example is, people will still find a way to 5aps it to death.

Katzyn - Sanctuary wrote: »

Well, not quite true. My squad's done it with a cleric, veno, psy, sin, archer...and I forget the last, if we had a 6th. The two melees used apoth pots that gave them elemental damage, and with their 5aps, they still tanked and did the most damage. Once we got used to doing it, timing heals and such, the boss dropped so quickly, with no casulties on our side...

Point of my example is, people will still find a way to 5aps it to death.

Those pots don't do much elemental damage. Hey. b:laugh

True, in comparison to the 5 aps DD's and the high DPS toons, barbs are UNderpowered.

Personally i love having a barb in squad, no matter on what toon i'm playing.Not only are their buffs really yummy b:victory, they can, if they're any good, keep aggro from the more squishy toons quite often.

I do however feel sorry for the relatively "new" barbs b:sad

I went into a bh69 with a bunch of lvl 80+'s just because i needed gaurn for a divine order. As a lvl 100 sin i knew i would take aggro constantly, but what amazed me and especially the others in sq, was the speed at which those mobs went down, and i'm not even full aps.

That barb present couldn't really do much...just DD a bit and that's it. IF however they had a skill that would keep aggro no matter what damage others do, then at least one would give them a more meaningfull function and return everything for them back to "normal" a bit.

People used to ask for a "tank" (meaning barb) in BH squads. Now any high lvl aps with enuf hp seems to be becoming the norm.

p.s. :

Finally, put some good alternatives to aps gear out there so that every sin doesn't HAVE to go aps to compete.

As a sin my self : best idea EVER.

Cheze, wrong kind of hate dude b:chuckle

I agree that the first step is to tweak the older classes to match the newer ones. Make FR generate more aggro to balance the DPS aggro of a sin or fist BM, etc, etc. Even though i enjoy the challenge of tanking, I will happily nerf my DPS and let a heavy do it, when that is an option...

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

You raise the amount of aggro generated from flesh ream? Fine, but it's irrelevant. Why would you have a barb tank when you can have someone else tank who can tank perfectly fine AND do more damage.

Can I tank? Yes (with some exception, obviously, at my level). When I hit 89 I am most likely going sage, which will make me even tankier, and I enjoy the challenge anyway.

Would I rather let a Vit Heavy tank it FOR ME? Hell yeah. b:surrender much rather a barb than me, not to mention a vit build has better chance of surviving big boss hits. I actually know a 101 sin who likes to have an APS BM in squad, because he hates tanking b:chuckle I suspect he (and i) would happily take a Vit barb if they could keep aggro.

amandisha74 wrote: »

What if the barb had a Berzerker skill that would significantly increase dmg/aps/crit, for a short amount of time, that could only be useable on non-players. That would move them to the top of the hate list and they would use currant agro skills to maintain. That way you still have to learn to play your barb but you could also get that extra hate boost that is needed.

Least make Untamed wrath useable in tiger form :-/

Somehow I doubt Berserk has proven effective at serious aggro control. Not saying it wouldn't help, but you're still not gonna hold aggro against 5.0s. You may as well be using the BM's stream strike.

amandisha74 wrote: »

Game isn't sustainable and I have invested two years and SOME money, not enough to be any good apperently. but lately the game has become frustrating to me. They have all these classes, and all these areas and mobs to go hunt. Yet there really isn't any point in going to them or interacting with them.

Would it help to have regular mobs provide better rewards so that some of the weaker classes can actually get some rare stuff to?

I'm kind of old school grinder, I would like to see mobs be more entertaining to hunt. if not more money rewards least some rewards for like braging rights.. like medals or trophies and stuff for performing certain tasks.

Maybe the answer isn't to gimp aps, but make them less needed by providing alternate content for classes so they can go off and have fun without them if need be.

I dunno somthings broken if I'm out trolling the board instead of playing.

What they should do is change the mobs a bit. Seeing the same skinn on a mob in one area and then seeing it in another is kinda boring. Maybe also give these mobs new abilities too? To change it up a bit so that when you are playing a new toon, you go, "Wow this is different from the last time i fought these things, I better change my tactics in fighting them".

I may be oversimplifying, but if demon/sage spark had a cooldown of say, 30 seconds, 60 seconds, or even 90 seconds, would that not stop the permaspark monster in its tracks?