Someone help me figure out how this is logical.
SaiIorMoon - Lost City
Posts: 158 Arc User
Okay, this happens not that often but when it does, it's really annoying, atleast to me.
You're in a NV squad, last boss is dead cool! Open the little boxes for this example's sake let's just go with 5 unc and 1 rap.
Now everyone goes outside searches for the highest B> price. 1.35mil for raps, Squad member 4 says, "HEY I'LL BUY 1.4." Squad agrees, trades rap to member 4. goes and sells the unc and drops all the coins.
Me, "how is that anywhere near logical, that he gets the rap and the 233k from the rap?"
"that's how it always happens."
This basically says he's buying the rap for "1.4mil" really meaning 1.17mil correct?
You're in a NV squad, last boss is dead cool! Open the little boxes for this example's sake let's just go with 5 unc and 1 rap.
Now everyone goes outside searches for the highest B> price. 1.35mil for raps, Squad member 4 says, "HEY I'LL BUY 1.4." Squad agrees, trades rap to member 4. goes and sells the unc and drops all the coins.
Me, "how is that anywhere near logical, that he gets the rap and the 233k from the rap?"
"that's how it always happens."
This basically says he's buying the rap for "1.4mil" really meaning 1.17mil correct?
Post edited by SaiIorMoon - Lost City on
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Comments
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Its very logical. If he was in squad he deserve share part anyhow..
If u sold to cat shop for less he would again get share but less money , also u would get less money.0 -
SaiIorMoon - Lost City wrote: »Okay, this happens not that often but when it does, it's really annoying, atleast to me.
You're in a NV squad, last boss is dead cool! Open the little boxes for this example's sake let's just go with 5 unc and 1 rap.
Now everyone goes outside searches for the highest B> price. 1.35mil for raps, Squad member 4 says, "HEY I'LL BUY 1.4." Squad agrees, trades rap to member 4. goes and sells the unc and drops all the coins.
Me, "how is that anywhere near logical, that he gets the rap and the 233k from the rap?"
"that's how it always happens."
This basically says he's buying the rap for "1.4mil" really meaning 1.17mil correct?
He had got payment as everyone from your squad, including you.
If your squad will sell the rap for "1.35mil" to someone else, everyone from your squad will get even less than 233k coins (225k instead).0 -
It's how squad splits work. If you sell to someone outside of the squad, you'll get however much you paid, split 6 ways.
You have to remember that he also helped farm 1/6th of the crystals. So whatever drops/is sold, everyone is entitled to an equal share, i.e. 1/6th of the coins gained in that run.
If he buys the rapture, everyone's still going to get an equal share, technically yes he is "paying less", but no-one's losing out, everyone gets an equal share, and his 1/6th of that crystal goes back to him when he picks up the coins.0 -
I don't get it. So basically, buy all the drops from every nv run and you'll make way more than setting up a catshop. 800k profit from raps and buy 2 get 1 free uncannies woot.0
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It makes a bit more sense than running Nirvana to sell crystals for money so you can use the money to buy crystals. I think.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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SaiIorMoon - Lost City wrote: »I don't get it. So basically, buy all the drops from every nv run You participate in and you'll make way more than setting up a catshop.
Ah, yes.
A catshop sits still while you run however many runs you may,
It don't however waste repairs, pots, effort and time "earning" the drops and thus a piece of the loot.
So, just because he or she decided to buy out the whole thing. How does that erase his part in the squad?0 -
SaiIorMoon - Lost City wrote: »I don't get it. So basically, buy all the drops from every nv run and you'll make way more than setting up a catshop.
You're not considering the fact that you also went on that run. If you want, you can think of it as paying 1.17 for that rapture, but only because you were apart of that run. 1.17mil is the 5/6th of the crystal that belongs to the rest of the squad, the remaining 230k is your share.
If you wanted to, you could do something like that and resell them for more, but that could lead to people not wanting to run with you, etc.
You did invest your time going on the run, so factoring that in, you're not really "making way more".0 -
Teny - Heavens Tear wrote: »You're not considering the fact that you also went on that run. If you want, you can think of it as paying 1.17 for that rapture, but only because you were apart of that run. 1.17mil is the 5/6th of the crystal that belongs to the rest of the squad, the remaining 230k is your share.
If you wanted to, you could do something like that and resell them for more, but that could lead to people not wanting to run with you, etc.
You did invest your time going on the run, so factoring that in, you're not really "making way more".
Makes a little more sense now, but anyway you look at it it's still ~40% profit margin. Which does add up to "way more" imo.0 -
SaiIorMoon - Lost City wrote: »Makes a little more sense now, but anyway you look at it it's still ~40% profit margin. Which does add up to "way more" imo.
First, it would only be a ~20% "profit margin" (1.4/1.17 = ~1.19). And that 20%? That's his share of the run. Second, the amount of money you save from buying off of squads you run NV with does add up to "way more", that's why people do it; squads get instant payment, you get a crystal. It does not, however, add up to more than it would cost were they to not buy the crystal off the squad, and just buy crystals off of random cat shops with the proceeds from selling crystals to people outside the squad.
It's only annoying to you because you don't understand the logic behind it. In the end, you'd be spending the same amount of money (assuming static prices for crystals) whether you buy off the party and get 1/6th of the cut back, or just take your 1/6th of the cut and use it to "discount" the price of some other random cat shop's NV crystals.
I used to do the exact same thing you're describing, except with perfect shards on World bosses. I see a shard I want, I pay for it, party lead drops the coin and I get my cut back from helping kill.0 -
lets say u in 2 man squad and u grind 1mil worth of stuff, if u sell it to catshop ull get 500k each, but if u said 'Hey i need it, lemme keep it' how much would u pay to this other guy 500k or 1 mil?0
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Sunked - Lost City wrote: »lets say u in 2 man squad and u grind 1mil worth of stuff, if u sell it to catshop ull get 500k each, but if u said 'Hey i need it, lemme keep it' how much would u pay to this other guy 500k or 1 mil?
Why.. 1mil of course!
..Granted I am the other guy. b:surrender0 -
SaiIorMoon - Lost City wrote: »I don't get it. So basically, buy all the drops from every nv run and you'll make way more than setting up a catshop. 800k profit from raps and buy 2 get 1 free uncannies woot.
/facepalm
you rolled a sin, right?...riiiight.
well, nvm...____________
I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.
George Carlin
~I listen to hardcore FIGHT songs when I visit the forum, just to get into the proper mood~
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »/facepalm
you rolled a sin, right?...riiiight.
well, nvm...
Sins can't be air-headed, because (a) they're fish, and, more importantly, (b) I'm a sin.0 -
nothing against them, I know very smart ppl that play that class. And it's stupid not to because how OP it is.
But that's also the reason it attracts the biggest idiots: you don't need much brain to play it.
When you fail on such a simple math, you're consuming oxygen for nothing.____________
I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.
George Carlin
~I listen to hardcore FIGHT songs when I visit the forum, just to get into the proper mood~
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
wow op is stupid...
next thread b:bye0 -
It is much the same with things like TT gold mats on runs I do with my faction: the rule we use is always sell and split. It doesn't matter who the money comes from; you could sell to catshop, to guildie, in AH... but once you have it, it is equally split amongst the squad members because they did the work to get it. This is why, if someone in that squad needs that particular mat, it is handy to be able to buy from the squad, because in a way it gives them a fractional discount (them getting their minor portion back after). But they did the work for that portion, and it doesn't hurt the rest of the squad. It *benefits* the rest of the squad because the mat is then sold fast and they get their money.
In this case you point out that this guy offered even more money than the catshops. I don't understand how this is hurting you? This is benefitting the rest of the squad members; you guys are in effect making more money now than if you had sold to a catshop. Why are you being so greedy that you think he should get nothing for the work he did just because he wants to buy a mat? It is always sell and split. It doesn't matter who you sell to... once the money is in your hands, you split it. You all worked for it.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Looking for a mature faction on HT? pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=7608420 -
this is a not so uncommon argument. well, here is some reasons cause it's fair.
Assume that there is a fixed price for raptures, 1.8m
1) Assume that u sell the rap for 1.8m to a catshop. Everyone gets 300k
Assume that u sell the rap to a squad member for 1.8m
Everyone gets 300k, he gets a rapture, 300k and pays 1.8m
so in the end he gets a rapture and pays 1.5m, total profit from the run is 300k
even if it's not clear that he gets what u get, it's clear that you get exactly what you would get if u sold to a catshop. therefore, there is no reason to prefer to sell to a catshop instead of a squad mate (unless u hate him but we would u squad with him in the first place).
2)A different view: Assume that the squad member has a second pc and he sets up a catshop that buys for 1.8m. everyone gets 300k, he gets 300k, a rapture, pays 1.5m.
So basically, selling to (his) catshop it's the same with selling to him.0 -
Just be careful when you let people buy something. If squad decides to sell rapture for 1.4m then make the buyer in squad trade 1.4m instead of (1.4M minus their share) that way it will be split evenly when the squad leader does drop the 1.4m[SIGPIC]http://a.imageshack.us/img714/9433/testoz.jpg[/SIGPIC]
If I had a dime for every time I was wrong, I'd be broke.0 -
same quest raised in a FB run I did not too long ago. The person bought the wines insist the cost of the should be divided by 5, because he can not pay himself, we spend more then 5 minutes to explain to him. end up I bought the wines off him and collected win fee myself.0
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nothing wrong with the way the squad member wanted it done
person earned their share
squad sells it to that person at a normal competitive price
they get part of the split of it because they did the ****ing run
op probably should learn math and a little bit of logic before doing any more nirvana0 -
To put it another way, that one player is not only paying ~1.17 mil, he's also giving up his ~233k share of the profits, which totals up to the 1.4 mil that is being split six ways.SaiIorMoon - Lost City wrote: »Now everyone goes outside searches for the highest B> price. 1.35mil for raps, Squad member 4 says, "HEY I'LL BUY 1.4." Squad agrees, trades rap to member 4. goes and sells the unc and drops all the coins.
Me, "how is that anywhere near logical, that he gets the rap and the 233k from the rap?"
[...]
This basically says he's buying the rap for "1.4mil" really meaning 1.17mil correct?
If you had sold it to a catshop for 1.4 mil, then you each would have gotten the same amount ~233k, but he would be +~233k instead of -~1.17 mil right? That's fair, right? But now imagine that the catshop you sold it to was one of his alts. He would have paid everyone 1.4 mil, but received ~233k, meaning his total loss would be ~1.17 mil, the same as how things worked out in your squad. So therefore it's still fair.
So he's not only trading coins for the Rap, but also his share in the profits for the Rap, which added together is what makes the deal fair.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Visit the PWI wiki for the useful information. Stay at the PWI wiki for the pie. ;-)0 -
Graey_Rain - Harshlands wrote: »wow op is stupid...
next thread b:bye
b:chuckle0 -
b:bye To everyone without enough intelligence to add anything insightful and resort to insults. And to those saying you'd get less by selling to catshop, because you obviously can't comprehend what I'm saying here.
I don't understand how nobody sees my pov...It's not really even about the ~200k it's about how 5 members of the squad get the same exact thing as the 6th, but the 6th also gets a marked down item, marked down more.
I understand he did the run, I understand he might've used some pots and have some repairs, but he's getting AN ALREADY DISCOUNTED PRICE, even more discounted. (Catshop B> price is almost, almost, almost always super discounted per the price of the item, in case you're not sure how those people make money selling items -_-)
For example, (static prices) Rapture B>1.4million S>1.8million.
Squad member buys for 1.4million, he/she gets a Rapture + 233k which really is, a Rapture for 1.17. Weird that's a 600k profit.
For lolz sake, let's say that's the only thing you get. Everyone gets ~233k except member 4 who gets a minimum of ~400k and up to ~600k, provided he resells the Rapture...how does that not make sense?
Don't get me wrong I am not opposed to fairness, but I think his cut should be getting the marked down Rapture price, without having to spend ~3hours in a catshop.
If you don't understand what I'm saying, give him the rapture make him drop to split amongst 5 people, since he chose mat over the coins. No one wants? Cool, sell to catshop everyone gets the same amount, but I really can't understand how it's logical for one member to get a specific mat they WANT/NEED and still get the same amount of coins. I don't care if they spent 20 minutes of farming they got what they NEEDED/WANTED out of their 20min of farming...why the coins too...? Keep flaming I guess, it's futile though.0 -
ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »this is a not so uncommon argument. well, here is some reasons cause it's fair.
Assume that there is a fixed price for raptures, 1.8m
1) Assume that u sell the rap for 1.8m to a catshop. Everyone gets 300k
Assume that u sell the rap to a squad member for 1.8m
Everyone gets 300k, he gets a rapture, 300k and pays 1.8m
so in the end he gets a rapture and pays 1.5m, total profit from the run is 300k
even if it's not clear that he gets what u get, it's clear that you get exactly what you would get if u sold to a catshop. therefore, there is no reason to prefer to sell to a catshop instead of a squad mate (unless u hate him but we would u squad with him in the first place).
2)A different view: Assume that the squad member has a second pc and he sets up a catshop that buys for 1.8m. everyone gets 300k, he gets 300k, a rapture, pays 1.5m.
So basically, selling to (his) catshop it's the same with selling to him.
*stuffs her Crystal Buying Catshop in her pocket* Oh wahh? I'm not buying the crystals off my party like that.. thats blasphemous!!! >.>;; Lol
The point is.. someone has to buy them why not sell them to your squadmates? Hell if they are friends sometimes my group gives them an additional discount on them, or even sells them everyone's crystals for the run. We all make money and he gets his crystals. Everyone is happy, except the OP I guess, becuase they don't understand that it doesn't matter who buys the crystal.
As long as its the "best" buying price at the moment what does it matter? You know that catshop you're selling too, are they also Selling Rapts? Yeah its beucase they just BOUGHT em from your squad for 1.4mil. Your party isn't going to wait for you to sell it for 1.8mil becuase that takes time. Nirvana is all abotu the quick buck. And that is why most people sell them to the nearest catshop. He is entitled to his share same as you are. Becuase if he didn't purchase the crystal he'd get his share, and you'd get the same amount. Who cares what he gets as long as you get the same you would have gotten. Which you will.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Xyleena | 102 Demon Cleric | Radiance Faction : Main
Gwendolynne | 101 Sage Venomancer | Heavens Tear
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Diva | 92 Sage Blademaster | Dreamweaver : Retired0 -
SaiIorMoon - Lost City wrote: »b:bye To everyone without enough intelligence to add anything insightful and resort to insults. And to those saying you'd get less by selling to catshop, because you obviously can't comprehend what I'm saying here.
I don't understand how nobody sees my pov...It's not really even about the ~200k it's about how 5 members of the squad get the same exact thing as the 6th, but the 6th also gets a marked down item, marked down more.
I understand he did the run, I understand he might've used some pots and have some repairs, but he's getting AN ALREADY DISCOUNTED PRICE, even more discounted. (Catshop B> price is almost, almost, almost always super discounted per the price of the item, in case you're not sure how those people make money selling items -_-)
For example, (static prices) Rapture B>1.4million S>1.8million.
Squad member buys for 1.4million, he/she gets a Rapture + 233k which really is, a Rapture for 1.17. Weird that's a 600k profit.
For lolz sake, let's say that's the only thing you get. Everyone gets ~233k except member 4 who gets a minimum of ~400k and up to ~600k, provided he resells the Rapture...how does that not make sense?
Don't get me wrong I am not opposed to fairness, but I think his cut should be getting the marked down Rapture price, without having to spend ~3hours in a catshop.
If you don't understand what I'm saying, give him the rapture make him drop to split amongst 5 people, since he chose mat over the coins. No one wants? Cool, sell to catshop everyone gets the same amount, but I really can't understand how it's logical for one member to get a specific mat they WANT/NEED and still get the same amount of coins. I don't care if they spent 20 minutes of farming they got what they NEEDED/WANTED out of their 20min of farming...why the coins too...? Keep flaming I guess, it's futile though.
yup, it's futile.
There is just no hope for you.
really.
I thought you realized how stupid that original post was and then after all the explanations you got you had an "Eureka" moment.
I has a dissapoint but yeah...you dude need to stop skipping school. And maybe take off those white earbuds while in math class.
have fun, just don't excercise too much...you know, it's polite to save oxygen for others if you don't really use it for anything that matters.____________
I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.
George Carlin
~I listen to hardcore FIGHT songs when I visit the forum, just to get into the proper mood~
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
SaiIorMoon - Lost City wrote: »b:bye To everyone without enough intelligence to add anything insightful and resort to insults. And to those saying you'd get less by selling to catshop, because you obviously can't comprehend what I'm saying here.
I don't understand how nobody sees my pov...It's not really even about the ~200k it's about how 5 members of the squad get the same exact thing as the 6th, but the 6th also gets a marked down item, marked down more.
I understand he did the run, I understand he might've used some pots and have some repairs, but he's getting AN ALREADY DISCOUNTED PRICE, even more discounted. (Catshop B> price is almost, almost, almost always super discounted per the price of the item, in case you're not sure how those people make money selling items -_-)
For example, (static prices) Rapture B>1.4million S>1.8million.
Squad member buys for 1.4million, he/she gets a Rapture + 233k which really is, a Rapture for 1.17. Weird that's a 600k profit.
For lolz sake, let's say that's the only thing you get. Everyone gets ~233k except member 4 who gets a minimum of ~400k and up to ~600k, provided he resells the Rapture...how does that not make sense?
Don't get me wrong I am not opposed to fairness, but I think his cut should be getting the marked down Rapture price, without having to spend ~3hours in a catshop.
If you don't understand what I'm saying, give him the rapture make him drop to split amongst 5 people, since he chose mat over the coins. No one wants? Cool, sell to catshop everyone gets the same amount, but I really can't understand how it's logical for one member to get a specific mat they WANT/NEED and still get the same amount of coins. I don't care if they spent 20 minutes of farming they got what they NEEDED/WANTED out of their 20min of farming...why the coins too...? Keep flaming I guess, it's futile though.
Wow you really aren't too bright. If he's playing 1.4 instead of 1.35, how is that a marked down item? I'm face palming and trying to type at the same time. Let's say in the entire run, the bosses drop a pizza instead of raps/cannies. The pizza has 6 slices. Now each one of you is entitled to 1 slice of the pizza since you guys did the run together. There's a catshop buying the pizza for 6 mil. If you guy sell the pizza to the cat, you each get 1 mil as you deserve. Instead, if player A buys the pizza for 6 mil and drops the coins then pick up, you each get 1 mil, he gets the pizza. Since he paid 6 mil and got 1 mil back, he paid 5 mil for 5 extra pieces of pizza, since one of the the slice was his share anyways. He's paying 1 mil per slice, same as the catshop. Let's say that catshop was actually his alt, but you guys didn't know. You guys sell it to the shop, then drop the coins, he ends up with the pizza and 1 mil. If you still can't understand this...
If he goes and resell the pizza for 10 billion coins, more power to him. Yes that's potential 10 billion coins splitting 6 ways you guys missed, but if you are patient enough to resell the pizza, do that instead of selling it to buying shops.0 -
Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »Wow you really aren't too bright. If he's playing 1.4 instead of 1.35, how is that a marked down item? I'm face palming and trying to type at the same time. Let's say in the entire run, the bosses drop a pizza instead of raps/cannies. The pizza has 6 slices. Now each one of you is entitled to 1 slice of the pizza since you guys did the run together. There's a catshop buying the pizza for 6 mil. If you guy sell the pizza to the cat, you each get 1 mil as you deserve. Instead, if player A buys the pizza for 6 mil and drops the coins then pick up, you each get 1 mil, he gets the pizza. Since he paid 6 mil and got 1 mil back, he paid 5 mil for 5 extra pieces of pizza, since one of the the slice was his share anyways. He's paying 1 mil per slice, same as the catshop. Let's say that catshop was actually his alt, but you guys didn't know. You guys sell it to the shop, then drop the coins, he ends up with the pizza and 1 mil. If you still can't understand this...
If he goes and resell the pizza for 10 billion coins, more power to him. Yes that's potential 10 billion coins splitting 6 ways you guys missed, but if you are patient enough to resell the pizza, do that instead of selling it to buying shops.
are you my elementary school math teacher by any chance? Damn now I need to go find a Pizza T.TLost City Sage barb and Retired Coven Marshal.0 -
Woooooow, Discounted price being catshop buy it price. He farmed, cool he gets the mat, there really is no reason to get money back.
Let me make it simple for you guys, because it's not hard to see.
Everyone spends 20minutes farming the instance, everyone gets 233k, except member 4 gets 233k + the rapture.
*pass to catshop* Member 4 made ~800k that run, everyone else made 233k. Quick buck i understand, you can hold on to that if you don't have a constant shop open and easily sell it over night.0 -
SaiIorMoon - Lost City wrote: »b:bye To everyone without enough intelligence to add anything insightful and resort to insults. And to those saying you'd get less by selling to catshop, because you obviously can't comprehend what I'm saying here.
I don't understand how nobody sees my pov...It's not really even about the ~200k it's about how 5 members of the squad get the same exact thing as the 6th, but the 6th also gets a marked down item, marked down more.
I understand he did the run, I understand he might've used some pots and have some repairs, but he's getting AN ALREADY DISCOUNTED PRICE, even more discounted. (Catshop B> price is almost, almost, almost always super discounted per the price of the item, in case you're not sure how those people make money selling items -_-)
For example, (static prices) Rapture B>1.4million S>1.8million.
Squad member buys for 1.4million, he/she gets a Rapture + 233k which really is, a Rapture for 1.17. Weird that's a 600k profit.
For lolz sake, let's say that's the only thing you get. Everyone gets ~233k except member 4 who gets a minimum of ~400k and up to ~600k, provided he resells the Rapture...how does that not make sense?
Don't get me wrong I am not opposed to fairness, but I think his cut should be getting the marked down Rapture price, without having to spend ~3hours in a catshop.
If you don't understand what I'm saying, give him the rapture make him drop to split amongst 5 people, since he chose mat over the coins. No one wants? Cool, sell to catshop everyone gets the same amount, but I really can't understand how it's logical for one member to get a specific mat they WANT/NEED and still get the same amount of coins. I don't care if they spent 20 minutes of farming they got what they NEEDED/WANTED out of their 20min of farming...why the coins too...? Keep flaming I guess, it's futile though.
all i can say is wow.....i realy hope u are a very gifted 5yo that knows how to read and write cause if not ....wow Dude he made the same amount of money as u did keep in mind he was the one who payed for the rapture. Doesn't metter who buys the rapture...as long as he didn't get a discount he get's his share...it's basic math and commonsense....no offence i don;t want to insult u ....but u are either a troll or not very bright[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Just another veno!!!0 -
SaiIorMoon - Lost City wrote: »Woooooow, Discounted price being catshop buy it price. He farmed, cool he gets the mat, there really is no reason to get money back.
Let me make it simple for you guys, because it's not hard to see.
Everyone spends 20minutes farming the instance, everyone gets 233k, except member 4 gets 233k + the rapture.
*pass to catshop* Member 4 made ~800k that run, everyone else made 233k. Quick buck i understand, you can hold on to that if you don't have a constant shop open and easily sell it over night.
You're the one that isn't getting it. There are about 5-6 dumbed down examples for you on exactly what you are talking about! I advise you go read them again, beucase obviously you didn't read them the first time around.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Characters:
Xyleena | 102 Demon Cleric | Radiance Faction : Main
Gwendolynne | 101 Sage Venomancer | Heavens Tear
Delecroix | 101 Demon Assassin | Heavens Tear
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