Someone help me figure out how this is logical.
Comments
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SaiIorMoon - Lost City wrote: »That's it's "job," to sit there 24/7 and buy shiit to resell. The person in the squad is getting rewarded 2x basically. He's making the same as the catshop + everyone in the squad, (incomes he farmed it he deserves it.) we'll never see eye to eye so let it die.
o.O after 12 pages still? pleeeees tell me u troling0 -
Sunked - Lost City wrote: »o.O after 12 pages still? pleeeees tell me u troling
shes trolling . hard[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
At least my team doing the Harlem Shake.0 -
SaiIorMoon - Lost City wrote: »CatShop price is the absolute highest price they're going to get without having a buyer lined up or spending the same amount of time as that catshop who sits there afk all day long. Therefore, in my eyes, SOMEONE BUYING IT AT CATSHOP BUY PRICE IS GETTING A DISCOUNT OR PRIVILEDGE, and then on top of that, THEY'RE ALSO GETTING THE SAME AMOUNT OF COINS AS THE OTHER PLAYERS...
Are you one of those people who answer to mathematical word problems by making up "what if" situations? I bet teachers hate you in your elementary school amirite?0 -
Nael - Dreamweaver wrote: »Are you one of those people who answer to mathematical word problems by making up "what if" situations? I bet teachers hate you in your elementary school amirite?
that was mean...not nice to say that[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Move along..move along0 -
im very sorry for my unfriendly comments, actually i had my thinking and shes rite
im up for nv with u any time (Cheshire_Cat 5aps bm) , and i let u buy all the raps as apology for me being mean here, as long as u follow ur logic0 -
NatureLover - Harshlands wrote: »So then, specifically, how do you think the split should be, so that its as fair as possible to everyone
Flip back a couple of pages, I posted the only 2 ways in my eyes it's fair.Nael - Dreamweaver wrote: »Are you one of those people who answer to mathematical word problems by making up "what if" situations? I bet teachers hate you in your elementary school amirite?
How did I state a hypothetical situation to a mathmatical problem?
Please explain.
@Cheshire b:cry We go tonight, okie? I'll buy them all. (only "fair squad split" way though)
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SaiIorMoon - Lost City wrote: »How did I state a hypothetical situation to a mathmatical problem?
Please explain.
You keep mentioning catshops that have no relevance whatsoever to how a loot split should go.
Let's assume Player A is the guy who bought the rap. Player A spent the same amount of time as the rest of squad, but spent more coins than the rest of the squad to buy the rap. Now Player A ends up with his share from the run (Uncannies + split from the rap), less coins (from buying the rap), and of course, the rap as an asset he BOUGHT. The rest of the squad doesn't have the rap but have no immediate loss of the coins. The squad dismantles and the problem ends here. No catshops anywhere in the image.
You, however, keep assuming Player A will sell the rap at a catshop AFTER the squad dismantles. Maybe he will, maybe he will not. BUT NONE OF THAT IS YOUR BUSINESS. The catshop is a variable that doesn't exist in this problem.
Word problem: If Johnny drives at 50km/h to Dan's house which is 100km away from Johnny's house, how long would it take for Johnny to get to Dan's house?
You: The road is slippery so Johnny has to drive slower at 20km/h.
THERE IS NO SLIPPERY ROAD.0 -
SaiIorMoon - Lost City wrote: »Flip back a couple of pages, I posted the only 2 ways in my eyes it's fair.
How did I state a hypothetical situation to a mathmatical problem?
Please explain.
@Cheshire b:cry We go tonight, okie? I'll buy them all. (only "fair squad split" way though)
Wow, you really are a tool.
You whine and complain when you "think" that someone is taking advantage of the party by buying mats and go on about how it should be done to be "fair" in your mind, but when it's your turn to buy mats you insist upon the "cheating" method.0 -
b:angry ppl must stop take adventage of me, next one wanna buy raps from nv will pay 1.8mil and leave squad before split0
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This made it to 16 pages?
[edit] 17 pages.
Sunked; that's a good way to get it to where no one will do nv runs with you.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Lets let this thread die, yes?
(trolls...)[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Move along..move along0 -
Nael - Dreamweaver wrote: »You keep mentioning catshops that have no relevance whatsoever to how a loot split should go.
Let's assume Player A is the guy who bought the rap. Player A spent the same amount of time as the rest of squad, but spent more coins than the rest of the squad to buy the rap. Now Player A ends up with his share from the run (Uncannies + split from the rap), less coins (from buying the rap), and of course, the rap as an asset he BOUGHT. The rest of the squad doesn't have the rap but have no immediate loss of the coins. The squad dismantles and the problem ends here. No catshops anywhere in the image.
You, however, keep assuming Player A will sell the rap at a catshop AFTER the squad dismantles. Maybe he will, maybe he will not. BUT NONE OF THAT IS YOUR BUSINESS. The catshop is a variable that doesn't exist in this problem.
Word problem: If Johnny drives at 50km/h to Dan's house which is 100km away from Johnny's house, how long would it take for Johnny to get to Dan's house?
You: The road is slippery so Johnny has to drive slower at 20km/h.
THERE IS NO SLIPPERY ROAD.
You serious? I stated in like every single one of my posts, "PROVIDED HE'S RESELLING."
even if he was to keep it, it's still a discounted price he's buying it at...Valirah - Sanctuary wrote: »Wow, you really are a tool.
You whine and complain when you "think" that someone is taking advantage of the party by buying mats and go on about how it should be done to be "fair" in your mind, but when it's your turn to buy mats you insist upon the "cheating" method.
Wow, you really are so cute.
Didn't read the thread did you...
I stated roughly on page 9 that since, I am the only one who thinks this way, that I am going to start buying every mat from every NV I run in. It was a valiant effort at trying to insult and discredit me, but you failed.
sowwy. I then go on to say that, it is at relatively no risk, since I don't have to worry about any situation where I only get the mats and I don't get any of my coins back from buying them. b:bye 0 -
SaiIorMoon - Lost City wrote: »CatShop price is the absolute highest price they're going to get without having a buyer lined up or spending the same amount of time as that catshop who sits there afk all day long. Therefore, in my eyes, SOMEONE BUYING IT AT CATSHOP BUY PRICE IS GETTING A DISCOUNT OR PRIVILEDGE, and then on top of that, THEY'RE ALSO GETTING THE SAME AMOUNT OF COINS AS THE OTHER PLAYERS...
You think because a catshop sit there afk, doing no work means it deserves the lower price? What if a catshop has been there for a month, trying to buy a rap for 100k, will you sell it to that one because it's been waiting for so long?
Let's say only 5 of you guys ran. You get out to RT and highest catshop is offering 1.35 mil. Then "Mike" walks up to you guys and say he'll offer 1.4 mil for it. For all you know he's been there waiting or just logged on. Now do you sell to Mike or the catshop?
(A): to the catshop. You are going to sell the rap at a lower price to a shop just because you think it deserves it by waiting there? Waiting takes no work. 5 minutes to make another account and a RT alt, open another client with Element Client, setup shop while do other stuff on main. You think that 5 minutes of work means it deserves buying cheap raps over and over again? The only thing that makes a catshop deserves to buy something is when it's offering the highest price.
(B): to Mike. You are going to sell to Mike for 1.4 mil then split the coins between 5 of you. But then you are saying if "John" have been on the same run with you guys, putting the time in like you guys. He should get to pay 1.4 mil and no coins back just like Mike who didn't go on the run?0 -
no one can just let this go quietly. omg[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Move along..move along0
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Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »You think because a catshop sit there afk, doing no work means it deserves the lower price? What if a catshop has been there for a month, trying to buy a rap for 100k, will you sell it to that one because it's been waiting for so long?
Let's say only 5 of you guys ran. You get out to RT and highest catshop is offering 1.35 mil. Then "Mike" walks up to you guys and say he'll offer 1.4 mil for it. For all you know he's been there waiting or just logged on. Now do you sell to Mike or the catshop?
(A): to the catshop. You are going to sell the rap at a lower price to a shop just because you think it deserves it by waiting there? Waiting takes no work. 5 minutes to make another account and a RT alt, open another client with Element Client, setup shop while do other stuff on main. You think that 5 minutes of work means it deserves buying cheap raps over and over again? The only thing that makes a catshop deserves to buy something is when it's offering the highest price.
(B): to Mike. You are going to sell to Mike for 1.4 mil then split the coins between 5 of you. But then you are saying if "John" have been on the same run with you guys, putting the time in like you guys. He should get to pay 1.4 mil and no coins back just like Mike who didn't go on the run?
zzzz...
@Candy I've tried, people keep bumping it saying the same thing over and over again.
@Okeano, I'm not going to sell it to a catshop because it's been sitting there for 1 month, I'm not going to ask a person to even bid higher than the catshop, and in my "****ty math examples," squad member and catshop have been buying at the exact same price.
but @ #2, obviously if he is farming nirvana and he wants to buy the mat, unless he is doing what I have brought up, buying at same price as catshop knowing he'll get coins back because everyone has spoiled them to do so, then I wouldn't feel bad at all selling him the mat and splitting the coin amongst 5, excluding him.
This is my last post, if you have any more questions, go ahead and search for all my post I'm sure you can find out the information you're wondering in one of them somewhere.
And because I'm guessing it's been overlooked...
Random Squad of Nv, usually means I want coins, not I'm farming my gear, atleast, in my eyes. (maybe this is where we differ in opinions.)
1) All 6 members get coins, sell to catshop.
-OR-
2) 1 member buys mat (because he wants it for his gear), 5 members split coins.
In other words, don't farm the mat in a random squad. That's all I've been saying.
I've never done a random gear farm in HH but I'd hope that you guys wouldn't sell member 6 an EBI for 12million and then refund him 2... :x0 -
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Basically, if the squad agreed on the 1.5 mil price, then that's the deal. What happens an hour or a year later is irrelevant.
If the buyer manages to sell the Rapture for more than the agreed upon price later, well, good for him. Getting a higher sale price is not something that can be guaranteed, so the person attempting this is doing so at his own risk, in addition to spending his own time and effort on selling it.
If you think the split price isn't high enough, simply find some evidence for your squad of a higher buy price that they should be basing the split on. If you still don't think that's fair, then you're just basing numbers on your prediction of potential profits, because that's what sell prices are. However, you simply can't base your split price on potential profits without putting the banker at risk of loss, which is basically what you're getting upset/annoyed about.
If the person buying the Rapture fails to sell it for his buy price or more, then it is a net loss for them. It's fail logic to assume that the buyer will always be able to sell it at a profit when you're only dealing with potential profits.
If your previous math is any indication, then you aren't counting the money you would have made from the squad. If that's the case, then you're actually buying Raptures for 1.44mil and your Uncannies for 420k, which means almost no profit margin. Someone else pointed this out earlier, and you didn't comment on it, so I suspect it's right.SaiIorMoon - Lost City wrote: »Just for the record, exploiting "the right way" in a 6 man squad, has allowed me to buy raps at 1.2million (catshop at 1.4-1.5) and uncannies at 350k (catshop at 410-420k) all night, so I thank you guys and "your" logic.
~7-8 Raps and ~20 uncannies.
P.S. Don't bother demanding threads be closed, there are various reasons why a thread might get closed, and the OP demanding it be closed isn't one of them.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Visit the PWI wiki for the useful information. Stay at the PWI wiki for the pie. ;-)0 -
I blame PW on lettings br's play this version even tho they have their own. Please add brazil to ban region plox.PVP: 3800 kills in the name of KD lawl
Retired as of 18/11/09
Back as of 22/11/10
Archer retired as of 26/12/100 -
I am sincerely thinking that OP is trying to cause trouble and havoc in the forum, or adding nonsensical fuel to all the QQ fire here. This thread is obviously a flame bait. b:angry
Frankie should step in for once. Her opinion will enlighten the 99% posters here or shut the OP up. If not to express a simple calculation, as least to simmer all the agitated posters here.0 -
Absolutely amazing...
I have read this whole thread and I'm shock how no one but a few seen the problem...
The OP thinks that the person who buys the items should not receive a share of the profit from the sell. This where the whole logic problem comes into play.
Op problem is excluding the buyer of the drop coins. When the buyer owns 1/6 or whatever the size of the group is on the rapture. You don't exclude their share of the profit.0 -
Absolutely amazing...
I have read this whole thread and I'm shock how no one but a few seen the problem...
The OP thinks that the person who buys the items should not receive a share of the profit from the sell. This where the whole logic problem comes into play.
Op problem is excluding the buyer of the drop coins. When the buyer owns 1/6 or whatever the size of the group is on the rapture. You don't exclude their share of the profit.
huum, i hope that this is not what OP thinks but more like that the buyer shouldnt get the full reward plus the chance to resell the drops.
otherwise, lol.
if the raptures were sold for 60mil in catshops and the buyer could sell it for 61mil, does OP think that the buyer shouldnt get the 10mil split? b:chuckleyou only purge once #yopo0 -
PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »huum, i hope that this is not what OP thinks but more like that the buyer shouldnt get the full reward plus the chance to resell the drops.
otherwise, lol.
if the raptures were sold for 60mil in catshops and the buyer could sell it for 61mil, does OP think that the buyer shouldnt get the 10mil split? b:chuckle
Although you've given a rather extreme example here, that appears to be EXACTLY what the OP thinks. The buyer's "share" of the split would be his profit from reselling the rapture. Based on his more recent posts, he also thinks that the buyer's profit was 61 million, but that's a topic for a different conversation (maybe the deplorable job the education infrastructure in his neck of the woods is doing molding the leaders of tomorrow?)0 -
Yes, 1.35 mil obviously = 1.4 mil:SaiIorMoon - Lost City wrote: »and in my "****ty math examples," squad
member and catshop have been buying at the exact same price.SaiIorMoon - Lost City wrote: »Now everyone goes outside searches for the highest B> price. 1.35mil for raps, Squad member 4 says, "HEY I'LL BUY 1.4." Squad agrees
Obviously you didn't understand my option B either, nor did you actually say which option you would chose. If you actually learned to read and made one of the w choices I laid out, you can see where your logic breaks down.SaiIorMoon - Lost City wrote: »but @ #2, obviously if he is farming nirvana and he wants to buy the mat, unless he is doing what I have brought up, buying at same price as catshop knowing he'll get coins back because everyone has spoiled them to do so, then I wouldn't feel bad at all selling him the mat and splitting the coin amongst 5, excluding him.SaiIorMoon - Lost City wrote: »And because I'm guessing it's been overlooked...
Random Squad of Nv, usually means I want coins, not I'm farming my gear, atleast, in my eyes. (maybe this is where we differ in opinions.)
1) All 6 members get coins, sell to catshop.
-OR-
2) 1 member buys mat (because he wants it for his gear), 5 members split coins.
In other words, don't farm the mat in a random squad. That's all I've been saying.
I've never done a random gear farm in HH but I'd hope that you guys wouldn't sell member 6 an EBI for 12million and then refund him 2... :x
No it has NOT been overlooked. Almost everyone of my post since the first one has been trying to tell you WHY a catshop doesn't deserve to buy the mat at low price more than any random person on the street or in your squad who would pay the same price or more. Either 1.35/1.4 mil is too low of a price in your eyes that NO ONE should buy it at that price, or it's acceptable that anyone can buy at that price.
You are hopeless. I give up.0 -
Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »You are hopeless. I give up.
Damn, you're relentless. Cant beleive you struggled in vain for this long....0 -
I can see the point and make it worse b:shutup
5 members get 233K
1 member get a rap form 1.4M + 233K + profit from selling the rap
right?
The 233K is the payment for the run 6 members made the run so 6 members get paid.
1.35M is the catshop buy price (the quick and easy way).
But 1 member buys the rap for the 1.4M. After that all members get the 233K profit from the run.
This finishes the run and the split from the run and all members did make the same profit.
5 members get 233K
1 member get 233K + rap from 1.4M - 1.4M he did pay = 233K
This is where it ends for most people, All is clear en fair.
now looking in the future:
He sells the rap for 1.8M and make a 400K extra profit.
5 members get 233K
1 member get 233K + 400K extra profit on the rap = 633K
Here the things get messed up OP says The total profit from 1 member is 633K and the other only have 233K, its more fair that the member that did buy the rap should not get the 233K from the run
5 members get 280K from the run
1 member get 0 from the run + profit on the rap 400K = 400K
The question is, is the extra 400K profit on the run or a separated thing.
If it is a part of the run the OP is right and the member that did buy the rap did make enough profit there and the rest should share the 1.4M
But I think that by selling the rap for a fair price, the squad has choicen for the quick and easy coins. Similar to selling the rap to a catstore. And after splitting the 1.4M with 6 members the run/splits/shares have ended.
If the squad did want to get the 1.8M they should have set-up a catstore them selves and make the split after the rap was sold. so the possible extra profit from the member that did buy the rap is not a part in the profit from the run.
And this all is based on the idea that the rap is sold again, and not collected/given away/exc0 -
The question is, is the extra 400K profit on the run or a separated thing.
It is not part of the run. Once the drop has been sold - presumably for the highest price the squad could get AT THAT TIME, GIVEN THAT THEY HAD TO SELL IT QUICKLY - and the proceeds from the sale have been split SIX WAYS, the run is over. ANYTHING that happens after this point is off the table.If it is a part of the run the OP is right and the member that did buy the rap did make enough profit there and the rest should share the 1.4M
They did share the 1.4M. That was what the rap was sold for. All SIX members who went on the run shared in the 1.4M.
Look at it this way. It doesn't matter whether the drop was a rap which sold for 1.4M or simply 1.4M in coins that dropped. Either way, each of the six members got exactly the same as the other five.0 -
This logic is incredibly deceptive.I can see the point and make it worse b:shutup
5 members get 233K
1 member get a rap form 1.4M + 233K + profit from selling the rap
right?
The 233K is the payment for the run 6 members made the run so 6 members get paid.
1.35M is the catshop buy price (the quick and easy way).
But 1 member buys the rap for the 1.4M. After that all members get the 233K profit from the run.
This finishes the run and the split from the run and all members did make the same profit.
5 members get 233K
1 member get 233K + rap from 1.4M - 1.4M he did pay = 233K
This is where it ends for most people, All is clear en fair.
now looking in the future:
He sells the rap for 1.8M and make a 400K extra profit.
5 members get 233K
1 member get 233K + 400K extra profit on the rap = 633K
Here the things get messed up OP says The total profit from 1 member is 633K and the other only have 233K, its more fair that the member that did buy the rap should not get the 233K from the run
5 members get 280K from the run
1 member get 0 from the run + profit on the rap 400K = 400K
The question is, is the extra 400K profit on the run or a separated thing.
If it is a part of the run the OP is right and the member that did buy the rap did make enough profit there and the rest should share the 1.4M
But I think that by selling the rap for a fair price, the squad has choicen for the quick and easy coins. Similar to selling the rap to a catstore. And after splitting the 1.4M with 6 members the run/splits/shares have ended.
If the squad did want to get the 1.8M they should have set-up a catstore them selves and make the split after the rap was sold. so the possible extra profit from the member that did buy the rap is not a part in the profit from the run.
And this all is based on the idea that the rap is sold again, and not collected/given away/exc
You are factoring in an assumption that the person is going to make a profit off of something by a certain amount. If this were really true, then why complain? Buy up the raptures yourself for your so-called "profit" price. Then find out the hard way how dumb of an idea that was.
In reality, what pretty much any squad would do is sell the rapture to a squad member for the highest price that somebody is buying a rapture for, sometimes slightly higher as a bonus incentive. This is not an unfair price, because the squad would sell it to either someone, likely at Raging Tide, who's either buying raps for their gear, competitively pricing it just like the squad member buying would, or are a typical B/S catshop making a profit already, also at a competitive price the squad member would buy it for. The only favoritism shown is that you would bias selling it to somebody who actually did the run with the squad opposed to selling to someone sitting in a catshop at Raging Tide. The price and morality behind it is completely irrelevant. Maybe they hold onto it for gear? Maybe they NPC it? Maybe they give it to a friend? Maybe they hold onto it to sell it later at a higher price? Whatever they do with the rapture once it's sold.. who gives a ****? As long as they aren't trying to buy the rapture for less than what people outside are buying it for, they deserve first dibs at buying it.
If your suggestion is that someone should buy a rapture based on an ambiguous "markup" price determined by how much you think they can make a profit of.. you simply don't know how trade works, and I'm fairly sure that any ethical squad would laugh at the suggestion.0
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