Someone help me figure out how this is logical.
Comments
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if you arent interesting in the answer that has been posted here at least 10 times, then why bother asking.
additional explanations would be better shouted at a brick wall.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
SaiIorMoon - Lost City wrote: »Woooooow, Discounted price being catshop buy it price. He farmed, cool he gets the mat, there really is no reason to get money back.
Let me make it simple for you guys, because it's not hard to see.
Everyone spends 20minutes farming the instance, everyone gets 233k, except member 4 gets 233k + the rapture.
*pass to catshop* Member 4 made ~800k that run, everyone else made 233k. Quick buck i understand, you can hold on to that if you don't have a constant shop open and easily sell it over night.
You don't get it, he didn't get the rapture + 233k.
He spent 1.17 mil and 20 minutes farming, and in return got the rapture.
You keep thinking he's gained money from this transaction. The 233k he got from dropping the coin was his originally so he did not gain any coin.
P.S. Stop bringing up the "resale" value of the crystal later, that's totally irrelevant as to how much money the squad itself receives. He might not be selling that crystal later, the person in the catshop might not resale that crystal later, so that has nothing to do with it.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I think you need to show your work.SaiIorMoon - Lost City wrote: »Woooooow, Discounted price being catshop buy it price. He farmed, cool he gets the mat, there really is no reason to get money back.
Let me make it simple for you guys, because it's not hard to see.
Everyone spends 20minutes farming the instance, everyone gets 233k, except member 4 gets 233k + the rapture - (minus) how much he payed for to get the rapture
Quick buck i understand, you can hold on to that if you don't have a constant shop open and easily sell it over night.*pass to catshop* Member 4 made ~800k that run, everyone else made 233k. Wrong, this is where you messed up. You forgot to include the money he already spent to buy the rapture.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Move along..move along0 -
Xyleena - Heavens Tear wrote: »You're the one that isn't getting it. There are about 5-6 dumbed down examples for you on exactly what you are talking about! I advise you go read them again, beucase obviously you didn't read them the first time around.
I read them, I understand what're they saying, but I feel they don't quite grasp what I'm trying to express.
I understand he's putting in ~1mil to get it...
IMO
(1) Everyone gets coins
-or-
(2)5 members gets coin, 1 gets mats. (His cut should be in the ~400k difference in B/S prices.)
Close the thread now mods, please...0 -
SaiIorMoon - Lost City wrote: »I read them, I understand what're they saying, but I feel they don't quite grasp what I'm trying to express.
IMO
(1) Everyone gets coins
-or-
(2)5 members gets coin, 1 gets mats. (His cut should be in the ~400k difference in B/S prices.)
Close the thread now mods, please...
so the other members uses his time to do the nv squad to just buy a ma..somethings wrong here[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Move along..move along0 -
SaiIorMoon - Lost City wrote: »I read them, I understand what're they saying, but I feel they don't quite grasp what I'm trying to express.
I understand he's putting in ~1mil to get it...
IMO
(1) Everyone gets coins
-or-
(2)5 members gets coin, 1 gets mats. (His cut should be in the ~400k difference in B/S prices.)
Close the thread now mods, please...
So he pays and gets the rap, no money back. Then why did he go on the run then? He could've been afk at RT, or farm something else and then paid you guys for the rap. That's 5 way split like you wanted, and he wouldn't have to go on the run. He gets 233k back because he spent a key and time just like everyone else.
Think about it, you are saying that coming on the run, using a key and spend 20-30 mins, he should get the same deal as a catshop that's been afk at RT.
If you still don't see it, there's no hope for you.
There is no 400k difference in prices. If he wasn't going to buy, you guys would have sold for 1.35 mil, not 1.8. If there's a shop buying for 1.8 mil and he pays 1.4, that's a different story.0 -
so what does the person in the squad get for being in the run? the right to buy the items at the same price as the highest cat shop before the banker gets outside the instance? if this was the case, why not just set up a cat shop outside and not bother going, wasting time, and incurring repair/pot/charm costs?
oke beat me to it[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Some sins on LC are.... ughhhhh hopeless. ijsRank 8 Wizard: 1% farm b:shutup0
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OP:
1)do you think that it's fair to sell to a catshop for X coins and split between u 6?
2)if u do that, do u think that it's a scam if the catshop is an alt of a squad member?
looking forward to ur answers.0 -
SaiIorMoon - Lost City wrote: »I read them, I understand what're they saying, but I feel they don't quite grasp what I'm trying to express.
The only one failing to grasp is you.
Split 6 ways, the mats gives each player 233k. By dropping 1.4m, the buyer is paying each squad member (including himself) for their share of the mat. He's buying out each of the other 5 member's shares at 233k ea. In the end, he spent 1.167m + the 233k value of his share to get a mat worth 1.4m. How can you not see this?0 -
Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »So he pays and gets the rap, no money back. Then why did he go on the run then? He could've been afk at RT, or farm something else and then paid you guys for the rap. That's 5 way split like you wanted, and he wouldn't have to go on the run. He gets 233k back because he spent a key and time just like everyone else.
Think about it, you are saying that coming on the run, using a key and spend 20-30 mins, he should get the same deal as a catshop that's been afk at RT.
If you still don't see it, there's no hope for you.
There is no 400k difference in prices. If he wasn't going to buy, you guys would have sold for 1.35 mil, not 1.8. If there's a shop buying for 1.8 mil and he pays 1.4, that's a different story.
The only thing I overlooked was using a key, but even factoring them in, they have 0 value B/S so he's not losing anything out of that.
He basically went on the run to get a guaranteed Rap at Catshop buy it price...instead of sitting for 3 hours hoping to get 1, atleast in my head it makes sense.
Close the thread now.0 -
SaiIorMoon - Lost City wrote: »The only thing I overlooked was using a key, but even factoring them in, they have 0 value B/S so he's not losing anything out of that.
He basically went on the run to get a guaranteed Rap at Catshop buy it price...instead of sitting for 3 hours hoping to get 1, atleast in my head it makes sense.
Close the thread now.
Key isn't really an issue, it's the action of being on the run.
He can also guarantee getting that Rap from your run by setting a shop at 1.4 mil, beating others in price. You guys would have sold it to his shop anyways, unless you guys like to sell for lower price for some reason. A run happens at 1:00 PM, if he sets shop for 1.4 mil, he gets the rap for 1.4 mil, no coins, or he goes on that run and... buy the rap for 1.4 mil and no coins back?0 -
il say it easy without math,
he ran a nivrana with you guys, there for contributed to the squad, every1 got the coins expected,
why should he not include himself in the pay? he worked for it
you stand in his shoes,, dont think you would like it if some1 sayd to you, that you cant include yourself in the pay while you actually helped to get it farmed in the first place0 -
Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »have fun, just don't excercise too much...you know, it's polite to save oxygen for others if you don't really use it for anything that matters.
Now that made me laugh. *salutes* Good work.
@OP okay so you'd rather sell to a cat shop for 1.4mil than to your own squad-mate? That's basically what your argument is. He didn't have to sit in a cat shop yet gets the mat for 1.4 and can sell for 1.8. So if he had an alt in a cat shop everything would be okay? How is selling to his alt cat shop or him differerent? Other than your desire to help people that afk all day instead of those that actually DO the runs with you...0 -
SaiIorMoon - Lost City wrote: »I read them, I don't understand what're they saying, but I feel they don't quite grasp what I'm trying to express.
I understand he's putting in ~1mil to get it...
IMO
(1) Everyone gets coins
-or-
(2)5 members gets coin, 1 gets mats. (His cut should be in the ~400k difference in B/S prices.)
Close the thread now mods, please...
*fixed
This is why the split from some runs takes longer than the run itself.
If you do not understand basic mathematics, please do not try to explain how the whole world does it wrong and you are the one who is right.
Let me explain as simply as possible:
In both of your examples EVERYONE gets the SAME amount of coin EITHER WAY!
Well, guess I shouldn't complain. PWE thrives on people without math skills. Doesn't mean I would ever take someone this annoying on a second run. (maybe that's why they talk of splitting one run's worth..... I usually only see squads stop after one run to lose a crappy member..... "uh, yeah, sorry I don't have time for another..... lets sell and split now.....")0 -
Easy explaination is easy explaination
Squad sells to catshop for 1.3 Mil. all get share.
Person A of squad then uses 1.4M to buy off catshop, instead replace catshop with squad.
You still dont "get it" now. thank god it makes sense in your head cause i have a mild form of Dyscalculia and it even makes sense to ME...All you need is something to believe in. -Solar_one. <--
mah snoockums, mah hubby, mah eberyfing. 
Lag; You think yours is bad ? It took Jesus 3 days to Respawn !
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Current games aren't -games- anymore, just light shows operated by win buttons, lol."
"ah sh*t, were gonna die!.... but it's still cool!" -INTMDATOR0 -
SaiIorMoon - Lost City wrote: »The only thing I overlooked was using a key, but even factoring them in, they have 0 value B/S so he's not losing anything out of that.
He basically went on the run to get a guaranteed Rap at Catshop buy it price...instead of sitting for 3 hours hoping to get 1, atleast in my head it makes sense.
Close the thread now.
1 key = 85-130k.
i love how u ignore my post b:cute
yeah, i'm sure that in ur head a lot of stuff make sense.. btw any voices there?
eh, ursa was right as always.0 -
Please Log Out And Go To SchoolPVP: 3800 kills in the name of KD lawl
Retired as of 18/11/09
Back as of 22/11/10
Archer retired as of 26/12/100 -
Slarti - Dreamweaver wrote: »*fixed
This is why the split from some runs takes longer than the run itself.
If you do not understand basic mathematics, please do not try to explain how the whole world does it wrong and you are the one who is right.
Let me explain as simply as possible:
In both of your examples EVERYONE gets the SAME amount of coin EITHER WAY!
Well, guess I shouldn't complain. PWE thrives on people without math skills. Doesn't mean I would ever take someone this annoying on a second run. (maybe that's why they talk of splitting one run's worth..... I usually only see squads stop after one run to lose a crappy member..... "uh, yeah, sorry I don't have time for another..... lets sell and split now.....")
Read the title of the thread?
Never did I bash or tell anyone they're wrong or ignorant, I simply stated in all of my posts examples of why I don't think it's fair, Okeano is the only one who really "helped" like I asked in the title, majority of players just nerd raged and resorted to insulting...0 -
i havent took the time to read ALL replys to you origenal post but er,,
seems your the onely 1 not getting the simple logic
so its you vs every1, b:bye0 -
Even following your logic, that they're "getting it for a discount", why shouldn't they "get a discount", as opposed to the catshop? The person worked for the crystal. The entire squad's still getting paid more than they would have had you sold to the catshop. What's the big deal here?Katzyn, level 101 Demon Veno
Kylenea, level 99 Demon Cleric
ForestSonata, level 6x Mystic
Proud wifeh of Yudai
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
~Courtesy of the amazing Forsakenx~0 -
ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »OP:
1)do you think that it's fair to sell to a catshop for X coins and split between u 6?
2)if u do that, do u think that it's a scam if the catshop is an alt of a squad member?
looking forward to ur answers.
1) Yes
2) Imo, I would place that with fake bidding on an alt.
Happy?
-_-' close the thread already.0 -
SaiIorMoon - Lost City wrote: »1) Yes
2) Imo, I would place that with fake bidding on an alt.
Happy?
yup, i think that with ur logic/axioms u are right 0 -
People are talking on topic of this thread. There is no reason to close it because you want it to be closed. Its not breaking any rules. Just stop posting if you don't wanna ready anymore.
On Topic: People like this are exactly the reason I bank most of the runs I go on and we discuss BEFORE the run starts and everyone is inside. I tell them how my split is going to work and ask if anyone is interested in buying the mats off of the party. That way, if someone doesn't agree they can just leave and the rest of us will find someone else to replace. It's not like theres any shortage of DD available to NV runs these days.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Characters:
Xyleena | 102 Demon Cleric | Radiance Faction : Main
Gwendolynne | 101 Sage Venomancer | Heavens Tear
Delecroix | 101 Demon Assassin | Heavens Tear
Anatoxin | 8x Future Sage Psychic | Heavens Tear
Diva | 92 Sage Blademaster | Dreamweaver : Retired0 -
People like this are also the reason merchanting is incredibly profitable. b:victoryXyleena - Heavens Tear wrote: »On Topic: People like this are exactly the reason I bank most of the runs I go on and we discuss BEFORE the run starts and everyone is inside.
Things that are really just boring, simple math, for some it's an emotionally charged argument over fair vs. unfair. People get so blinded by irrational preconceptions about how things SHOULD be, that they can't step back and do the math and see that they're simply wrong.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
PWI Merchanting Guides: warrenwolfy.wordpress.com0 -
Xyleena - Heavens Tear wrote: »People are talking on topic of this thread. There is no reason to close it because you want it to be closed. Its not breaking any rules. Just stop posting if you don't wanna ready anymore.
On Topic: People like this are exactly the reason I bank most of the runs I go on and we discuss BEFORE the run starts and everyone is inside. I tell them how my split is going to work and ask if anyone is interested in buying the mats off of the party. That way, if someone doesn't agree they can just leave and the rest of us will find someone else to replace. It's not like theres any shortage of DD available to NV runs these days.
Question has been answered, therefore thread is no longer needed.
I have never made a deal about it in game and I used a "debate style" question as the title as I knew exactly what was coming...Sorry someone has a different POV than you. You win the game. b:cute0 -
WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »People like this are also the reason merchanting is incredibly profitable. b:victory
Things that are really just boring, simple math, for some it's an emotionally charged argument over fair vs. unfair. People get so blinded by irrational preconceptions about how things SHOULD be, that they can't step back and do the math and see that they're simply wrong.
Well, those kinds of people can take a walk in my squads. We don't have time to mince words about how a split is going to work. In my team, majority rules, and if you're the odd man out and don't agree, Right Click your Pic "leave Squad" ^^;;;;;[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Characters:
Xyleena | 102 Demon Cleric | Radiance Faction : Main
Gwendolynne | 101 Sage Venomancer | Heavens Tear
Delecroix | 101 Demon Assassin | Heavens Tear
Anatoxin | 8x Future Sage Psychic | Heavens Tear
Diva | 92 Sage Blademaster | Dreamweaver : Retired0 -
Assume catshop prices of raptures are 1.5m.
Assume 6 member squad.
Assume you sell to catshop.
1,500,000/6 = 250,000 coins each.
Now assume a member decides to buy it for 1.65m
1.65m / 6 people = 275,000 coins each
Squad member 1 pays everyone 275,000 coins.
Gross profit of each member:
Member 2: 275,000 coins
Member 3: 275,000 coins
Member 4: 275,000 coins
Member 5: 275,000 coins
Member 6: 275,000 coins
Member 1:
Conclusion 1: What he does with the rapture after is irrelevant.
Conclusion 2: Everybody gains the same amount.
Conclusion 3: You made more money by selling it to the member than by selling it to a catshop.
Personal opinion: I don't think this is a matter of opinion at all. If you make that member pay out all 1.8m and not get anything besides the rapture back, you're the one ripping him off.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
SaiIorMoon - Lost City wrote: »Question has been answered, therefore thread is no longer needed.
I have never made a deal about it in game and I used a "debate style" question as the title as I knew exactly what was coming...Sorry someone has a different POV than you. You win the game. b:cute
Actually, I run in squads based off a democracy. So it's not what my POV is, it's the majority of my parties POV. If I don't agree I would either leave or if it were my friends I would compromise for their wants as they have likely done for me many times. Personally, this subject obviously has a distinct idea of how it should be handled.
And, I never claimed to win the game.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Characters:
Xyleena | 102 Demon Cleric | Radiance Faction : Main
Gwendolynne | 101 Sage Venomancer | Heavens Tear
Delecroix | 101 Demon Assassin | Heavens Tear
Anatoxin | 8x Future Sage Psychic | Heavens Tear
Diva | 92 Sage Blademaster | Dreamweaver : Retired0 -
SaiIorMoon - Lost City wrote: »Question has been answered, therefore thread is no longer needed.
I have never made a deal about it in game and I used a "debate style" question as the title as I knew exactly what was coming...Sorry someone has a different POV than you. You win the game. b:cute
You dont use a "debate style" question to ask what 2+2 is, the same goes here.
Seriously, post the question on wiki answers or something and wait for 10 replies. 9 or more will say whats been said, its fair and its just how things work.0
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