Any Venos worried Mystics will make us obsolete?

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  • _Hysteria_ - Dreamweaver
    _Hysteria_ - Dreamweaver Posts: 66 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    @ whitevoodoo, nothing to do with ur sig i love stoner barrier as much as any wiz, i simply stated that yes we have more def than psy from it, but with the def lvl buff psys still get pretty good def, u came off as saying they have lilke none at all, wasnt trying to offend you, u were just really wrong on your post bout psys, nothing more nothing less.
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  • Mooy - Heavens Tear
    Mooy - Heavens Tear Posts: 404 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    But it also reduce attack lvl isn't it? But I wonder will the attack lvl turn to negative. At lvl one it increase def lvl by 36.3 and reduce atk lvl by 54. Max lvl it increase def lvl by 66 reduce atk lvl by 99. Sage give addition 5 lvl to def lvl and demon give channel -3% effect.
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  • Ivy_ - Dreamweaver
    Ivy_ - Dreamweaver Posts: 246 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    People, people people...

    I read this same exact thing on the wizzie boards when the psychics came out. Oh the panic of the wizzies! No one is "replacing" anyone. Believe it or not, everyone still has their uses after the Tideborn (a wiz/psy team is pretty effing scary at times) and will still have their uses after the Earthguard. Just that...it will be shared with 2 more classes.
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  • Brionni - Harshlands
    Brionni - Harshlands Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Ivy_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    People, people people...

    I read this same exact thing on the wizzie boards when the psychics came out. Oh the panic of the wizzies! No one is "replacing" anyone. Believe it or not, everyone still has their uses after the Tideborn (a wiz/psy team is pretty effing scary at times) and will still have their uses after the Earthguard. Just that...it will be shared with 2 more classes.

    Dude, squad has 6 (six) spots, let take fc for example, ppl want barb, bm, cleric and 2 sins, for the last spot remain archer, psy, wiz, veno, seeker, mystic. Go competeb:infuriated I only get fc spot if I get invited by my friends, there is absolutely no way for me to get into fc squad otherwise. Already, without the new race, when the new race comes I have 2 more rivals to cope with. Awesomeb:irritated
    Uses, no uses, I still have my uses, but... no one needs it. Thas it, sad but true.
  • Keliska - Raging Tide
    Keliska - Raging Tide Posts: 768 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    cleric like skills - nice
    veno pet for tanking - nice
    need for Zeal - low
    self-res buff - epic
    Option for both gender - also epic :)
    Venomancers/Clerics rock![SIGPIC]http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs43/f/2009/110/1/5/Schrodinger_plz_by_McMonster_Ridgeback.gif[/SIGPIC]

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  • Alleia - Dreamweaver
    Alleia - Dreamweaver Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Well, I was a bit worried that it may replace a Veno. After reading about the heals/resurrect Mystics will have, I'm also worried it may replace a Cleric in many functions. Sadly I have a level 90 Cleric and level 56 Veno so.. double whammy.

    Anyhow, even after reading through much of the posts regarding Mystics including the skill preview that was released yesterday, I'm not as worried.

    If anything, I'm wondering where Mystics will fit into a squad. They almost seem like a throw away class - jack of all trades and master of none. They aren't technically summoners, they aren't technically healers and their damage is medicore - so not much of a DD either. What exact purpose are they going to serve? I guess we will have to wait and see.

    All in all, we could list the dozens of differences between Mystic/Veno and Mystic/Cleric - which are the two main classes that come to mind when talking about Mystics. They all have their OWN things which will make them useful, and Mystics seem a bit complicated.

    But yeah, we'll see.
  • hugoredbone
    hugoredbone Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Alleia - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    If anything, I'm wondering where Mystics will fit into a squad. They almost seem like a throw away class - jack of all trades and master of none. They aren't technically summoners, they aren't technically healers and their damage is medicore - so not much of a DD either. What exact purpose are they going to serve? I guess we will have to wait and see.


    But yeah, we'll see.

    Well judging by how their pet works they can lure just like a veno, so they can act as the lurer.

    Their heals are decent, only problem is no BB.
  • Derressh - Dreamweaver
    Derressh - Dreamweaver Posts: 806 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Brionni - Harshlands wrote: »
    Dude, squad has 6 (six) spots, let take fc for example, ppl want barb, bm, cleric and 2 sins, for the last spot remain archer, psy, wiz, veno, seeker, mystic. Go competeb:infuriated I only get fc spot if I get invited by my friends, there is absolutely no way for me to get into fc squad otherwise. Already, without the new race, when the new race comes I have 2 more rivals to cope with. Awesomeb:irritated
    Uses, no uses, I still have my uses, but... no one needs it. Thas it, sad but true.

    I, personally, have NEVER been in a squad with 2 sins in it. And several squads without a BM (I become the main stunner). The squad I usually go with is barb, 2 venos, me, a cleric, and whatever straggler we pick up off the street.
    Mooy - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    But it also reduce attack lvl isn't it? But I wonder will the attack lvl turn to negative. At lvl one it increase def lvl by 36.3 and reduce atk lvl by 54. Max lvl it increase def lvl by 66 reduce atk lvl by 99. Sage give addition 5 lvl to def lvl and demon give channel -3% effect.

    And yes, the attack levels do turn negative. Otherwise that skill would be so much more OP than it already is (66 def levels and normal damage. b:shocked)
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  • Hhlolz - Harshlands
    Hhlolz - Harshlands Posts: 574 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Pennince - Lost City wrote: »
    I am a little bit, but I don't think we will be made completely obsolete but I think the classes are suppose to compliment each other.

    Mystics have no purge.
    Mystics have no amp.
    Mystics probably have no pets like venos (without reduction on lvl 150 bosses).
    Mystics cant transfer sparks.
    Mystics have no sage soul degeneration.
    Mystics have no pet bleed skill.

    enough saidb:pleased
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  • Silest - Sanctuary
    Silest - Sanctuary Posts: 816 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    long Live Blademasters. The Killers Of Pwi!
  • Lady_Sam - Lost City
    Lady_Sam - Lost City Posts: 196 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    I just have something to say.

    What's this talk about mp consumption? Wizards have more mp so can DD for longer? What? Forgive me, but these days mp pots are so easy to come by. Level 75+ everyone I know uses those event pots, we all know the packs are here to stay. Tokens are stilll relatively cheap too, not to mention you get a massive number of pots for a small amount of tokens. I don't think you should honestly count it, at least for 75+

    On-topic. I honestly can't wait to try mystic. I am fond of summoner classes in all types of rpgs, but on the venomancer there was just something I didn't like. I can't put my finger on it. Mystic may well be what I'm looking for. I enjoy being the jack-of-all-trades kind of class. It just means when something goes wrong, I'm the back-up. No matter the situation. (Within reason of course, I don't expect to solo harpy wraith, you know. >_>)

    That's just my rant. I feel better. Good day. b:cute



    Edit: Oops. I didn't check the date till too late. :( My apologies, haha!
  • Laranda - Heavens Tear
    Laranda - Heavens Tear Posts: 283 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Lady_Sam - Lost City wrote: »
    What's this talk about mp consumption?

    Oh, just that Venos have options that Mystics lack. Not a major problem in the long run, but still noteworthy. o.o
    Edit: Oops. I didn't check the date till too late. :( My apologies, haha!

    Eh, it hasn't been 2 weeks. Not all that big of a deal.
  • shadekitsuna
    shadekitsuna Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    i've seen how these mystics are, and trust me when I say I think they can replace us. They are slightly better than clerics given they can give a partner automatic ressurect for 10 minutes. their pets are actually pretty good come high level. Plus with the right armor they can tank and heal well without suffering a lot of damage that veno's normally suffer through if they get hit when their pets die.

    I think that I will be satisfied if pwi lowered the number of feathers and souls a veno needs to get their ultimate pets because thats what mystics lack. Thing is not many are willing to spend 300 dollars to get 9999 of each to get that pet. So far a mystic can have a near ultima pet and they don't have to hunt for them.

    What also annoys me is the fact that venos can't even hunt and capture the new monsters in the new region.
  • Renza - Raging Tide
    Renza - Raging Tide Posts: 1,939 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Fail necro.

    May as well respond to the clueless guy while I'm at it, mystics wont replace venos, go away.
    In PvP they both work totally different, especially in TW, again mystics pets can barley tank anything for ****, the devil pet may as well just be the bee pet you can grab at level 9 or so, clerics them self can tank exactly like a mystic can, just stick IH on and your set, if there still is anyone that thinks mystics will take away the point of being a veno, just stop playing.
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  • FoxRunning - Heavens Tear
    FoxRunning - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,048 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    yes, i am, but there isnt anything we can do about it. sooner or later, we will be made obsolete, as has the poor barbs. the game is out of balance, but of course the company doesnt care
    Pennince - Lost City wrote: »
    I am a little bit, but I don't think we will be made completely obsolete but I think the classes are suppose to compliment each other.
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  • LenieClarke - Heavens Tear
    LenieClarke - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,275 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    after watching mystics leveling up for a few weeks now, i don't think so. the classes are only superficially similar; mystics are summoners-who-also-heal-and-DD, where venos are summoners-who-also-tank-and-debuff. we're both support classes, but the types of support we provide are very different.

    if anything, venos seem more flexible than mystics. veno pets have more options and more customization than mystic summons, plus venos can credibly go HA and melee attack (i'd love to see mystics try that, i don't think it'd work out too well for them). given this, it makes sense that mystics should be a bit better at the things they do since they seem a more specialized class.
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  • LadyLavinia - Lost City
    LadyLavinia - Lost City Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Venos are worried of being replaced by Mystics?
    I think Venos (and Barbs/other Arcane also) are already replaced by these 5.0 freaks so why being worried about Mystics xD
  • ArrowOHeaven - Lost City
    ArrowOHeaven - Lost City Posts: 132 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Necro bad!b:cry
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  • Xoria - Sanctuary
    Xoria - Sanctuary Posts: 419 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    LadyLavinia - Lost City wrote: »
    Venos are worried of being replaced by Mystics?
    I think Venos (and Barbs/other Arcane also) are already replaced by these 5.0 freaks so why being worried about Mystics xD

    This one has the insight the others lack. (Not hating on APS though. <3 fast BH/ TT/ Nirvana/ everything else).
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  • Skull_Howl - Lost City
    Skull_Howl - Lost City Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    I don't think Venos should be worried. We still need your hercs. b:victory
  • _Ink_ - Raging Tide
    _Ink_ - Raging Tide Posts: 400 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Sorry but..Mystics replace neither clerics nor venos. I'm sure they have their own benefits, but really the only time I've had a mystic in my squad(Obviously I'm a veno.) they either played like an idiot or spent so much time trying to prove they were better than me and/or the cleric that they just ended up seeming foolish and I never even got to see what they could do. In the end, venos are a more versatile class, clerics have rez and purify. No one will be replacing anyone when it comes to the EG classes from what I can see.
  • Renza - Raging Tide
    Renza - Raging Tide Posts: 1,939 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    _Ink_ - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Sorry but..Mystics replace neither clerics nor venos. I'm sure they have their own benefits, but really the only time I've had a mystic in my squad(Obviously I'm a veno.) they either played like an idiot or spent so much time trying to prove they were better than me and/or the cleric that they just ended up seeming foolish and I never even got to see what they could do. In the end, venos are a more versatile class, clerics have rez and purify. No one will be replacing anyone when it comes to the EG classes from what I can see.

    Seems like a pretty biased view, in other words "every other class>mystics", no venos arn't more versatile, if you even know what it means, mystics actualy are though, hence the fact that there the jack of all trades, or they woulden't of been called that to begin with, its a shame you've met nothing but useless mystics so far or ones trying to prove a point *apparantly*, but on my mystic I enjoy the * versatile* game-play it brings, on the odd times i'm playing the healer, the de-buffer, the DD, the mini tank whilst venos play the debuffer, the DD and the mini tank, as you see they miss out on the healer.

    Now I'm not saying there replacing venos *again*, the way they both do things are very different, i wish people would get that into there heads and just let this thread die.
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  • _Ink_ - Raging Tide
    _Ink_ - Raging Tide Posts: 400 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Renza - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Seems like a pretty biased view, in other words "every other class>mystics", no venos arn't more versatile, if you even know what it means, mystics actualy are though, hence the fact that there the jack of all trades, or they woulden't of been called that to begin with, its a shame you've met nothing but useless mystics so far or ones trying to prove a point *apparantly*, but on my mystic I enjoy the * versatile* game-play it brings, on the odd times i'm playing the healer, the de-buffer, the DD, the mini tank whilst venos play the debuffer, the DD and the mini tank, as you see they miss out on the healer.

    Now I'm not saying there replacing venos *again*, the way they both do things are very different, i wish people would get that into there heads and just let this thread die.

    I don't see why you're being rude about it. Yes, I know what "versatile" means. And I never said all classes over mystics. I clearly said I'm sure they have their own benefits and that no one is replacing anyone. So maybe before you go becoming just another jerk I've met that happens to play a mystic, you should actually read my post?
  • YouriNishi - Raging Tide
    YouriNishi - Raging Tide Posts: 78 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Renza - Raging Tide wrote: »
    just let this thread die.

    +1


    Neither class is replacing either. Every class has pro's and con's. It all boils down to the person behind the screen b:bye
  • Annestasia - Dreamweaver
    Annestasia - Dreamweaver Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Sorry but..Mystics replace neither clerics nor venos. I'm sure they have their own benefits, but really the only time I've had a mystic in my squad(Obviously I'm a veno.) they either played like an idiot or spent so much time trying to prove they were better than me and/or the cleric that they just ended up seeming foolish and I never even got to see what they could do. In the end, venos are a more versatile class, clerics have rez and purify. No one will be replacing anyone when it comes to the EG classes from what I can see.

    You are correct in the assumption that Mystics are not better than clerics or venos for the roles those classes serve. Unfortunately for venomancers on DW, most of them play as low-end magic DDs with a pet rather than debuff/chi support.

    In squads when I use my venomancer, my job is to make sure the boss is taking as much damage as possible. That means keeping amp, ironwood, and either Myriad or FF Myriad up on a boss the whole time. Because armor break and magic break are awesome on bosses. My pet is out if it is a boss that doesn't AoE (because heals are wasted time) and I give chi to either the cleric or barb depending on who needs it. I also serve as a short buffer to give the cleric time to use a scroll (if they have one) by tanking off of immunity for a period of time (Absolute Domain into FC, chi pot or immunity pot into bramble hood). Archers can also tank off of immunity for a while, but venos have a longer period of time available past 79 since FC is ten seconds.

    In squads when I use my Mystic I am a general support class. My heal is faster than anything a cleric has (.5 channel is great), though weaker. If a cleric misses a heal or gets dropped, I can pick up the slack. Do I replace a cleric? NO. I will never replace a cleric. I have Salvation out to give the tank Martyrdom and Salvation's shield ability. this eats mana, I'll admit. But causing the tank to take 1/4ths less damage is worth my mana being drained. Especially in higher level instances. The shield is best utilized to allow the tank to eat large hits. The cooldown is fairly short for that ability (15 seconds), but it won't catch every hit. Next up is Falling Petals. Great in BHs, and I'd assume on the pulls in FC. For the entire time the buff is active, for every hit the person with the buff takes they get a heal nine seconds later. Provided they survive, that can be a fair amount. I do, however, lack Amp, ironwood, and Myriad. Having used those debuffs, I will admit that venomancers that play correctly get things done faster.

    However, if a veno is going to try and be a low end magic DD with a pet, they will lose. Go read Thicket some time. It is more damage than Para Nova. Is it an AoE? I've heard a bit of discussion on that one. Don't have it yet, so I can't say. Bramble Tornado is a nice hit as well. Then we get to the overlooked combo. Nature's Vengeance and Absorb Soul. Six second channel is nasty, but we get a channel reduction skill that also increases magic damage. Plus with this combo, every hit from Soul Absorb is a critical. Mobs my level drop to this combo. Two hits. Increased defense mobs can't shrug it off either. They aren't torn apart, but there is a chunk gone. Then you factor in using a plant. Same as using a debuffing scarab (closer to using FF Myriad and not getting bleed/poison) really. Not -entirely- the same, since debuff plants don't deal damage, but they cause me to deal more and my base skill channels faster than venomous scarab.

    Mystics don't get to use legend pets. I'm not going to complain. Mystics are not meant to solo anything. Venomancers are. That is one of the major reasons that venos don't need to worry about Mystics. You can still go farm TT, you still have Amp, you still have your nix. Mystics are simply more conducive to being in a sqaud. They don't fill the venomancer's role, since their debuffs are not as good, nor as powerful. However, with six slots in a squad and ten classes, squads aren't always going to have room for both. If I had a choice, most of the squads I would do anything with would have both a Mystic and a Venomancer.

    Why? Fun fact; Mystic pet heals are faster, and can heal venomancer pets. Salvation's tanking aides also work on venomancer pets. Herc taking 3/4ths damage with a shield every 15 seconds and faster heals. Gives you more time to DD as a veno.
  • Yulk_owns - Lost City
    Yulk_owns - Lost City Posts: 936 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Kilala - Lost City wrote: »
    my friend told me they are useless in hh :)

    but who knows.

    *facepalm*

    Veno > Mystic > every other class.... Sins need to cash shop to even bother tanking in HH -_-".

    Veno could just AFK almost all the time and level without repairs, money or even anything with just pet heal and pet and amp... Its just that the venoes are designed for newbs and noobs. Like Sins for PK mode.
    I, II and III spark is the most cheesiest skill in PWI and it should be removed or massively nerfed.

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  • SpasticCat - Sanctuary
    SpasticCat - Sanctuary Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Nobody ever mentions the spark thing, venos can give sparks. That is the best squad skill a veno can have and is irreplacable in squad play. As a barb, I value the sparks of venomancers greatly, and like that one person mentioned, I would like to have both veno and a mystic in squad very compatible with each other.

    This is a non-issue.
  • __Astarte__ - Dreamweaver
    __Astarte__ - Dreamweaver Posts: 151 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    These topics are pretty lulzy. Anyone that's ever worked with a GOOD Veno should be able to tell a Mystic would never be able to do the jobs they do best with just one look at our respective class skill sets. b:surrender
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  • DirtyLady - Raging Tide
    DirtyLady - Raging Tide Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Just wait till there is an item in the cash shop that will extend the summon of the craglord to 5 minutes b:chuckle
  • __Astarte__ - Dreamweaver
    __Astarte__ - Dreamweaver Posts: 151 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    DirtyLady - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Just wait till there is an item in the cash shop that will extend the summon of the craglord to 5 minutes b:chuckle

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