Any Venos worried Mystics will make us obsolete?

WhiteVodoo - Raging Tide · January 2011

maestro120 wrote: »

Sadly I have to agree. More class competition for the same squad slots = Doom for Wizzy/Veno/etc...

I have been playing a Veno with Herc for short while now (still fairly new to the game) and while it has been a blast... I can see myself keeping the veno solely as a cash money grinding machine while rolling one of the new classes as my main. But of course everything changes if the Earth Guard fails to live up to the hype...

um, why do you see more classes as doom for wizzardz venos and clerics? every class has a time and place they are needed, and when they are, they will get the squad slot.

when they hell would venos get kicked from a squad? is there a more useful class at all, i mean, it's like having a party, in a party, i'm supprised venos aren't stealing all the party slots, and if they aren't, mystics won't either.

when would clerics get kicked form a squad? yeah, sure, mystics can heal, but if there's not cleric, where is the squad gonna get all its buffs?...

and as for wizards, IF you can find any, and you need steady, consistant high damage being delt over long periods of time, wizards are the most mp efficient class on the game, wellspring quaff and glacial embrace go a long way. in that situation, anyone intelligent would choose them for the squad.

mystics are not mp efficient, because unlike venos, they can't restore mp at no cost, or exchange their hp amount for their mp amount. oh, and also, unlike venos, their pet's skills cost mp, which gets transfered to the pet from the mystic, so there goes more mana. ya gettin my point here? pets that cost mp, no party buff skills, inability to change a pet's skills, lack of a cheap way to restore mp. they're not replacing anyone with those flaws. playable class? yes. probly allot of fun? yes. my new main? yes. overpowered? nope. more desirable to squad with than previous classes? nope.

Xarathox - Dreamweaver · January 2011

Wonder why no Barb or BM has made one of these threads about seekers....

/sarcasm

tweakz · January 2011

mystics are not mp efficient, because unlike venos, they can't restore mp at no cost, or exchange their hp amount for their mp amount.

Venos do NOT restore MP at no cost anymore than Wiz's or other Mage classes that I know of. Soul Transfusion costs 1 spark (100 chi which equates to MP for other classes). Nature's Grace has a 5 minute cool down and takes an investment. Venos don't get near as much MP per mag, and eruption mp recov is based on max MP (which wiz's get more of from Wellspring Quaff and by being a Wiz).

oh, and also, unlike venos, their pet's skills cost mp, which gets transfered to the pet from the mystic, so there goes more mana. ya gettin my point here? pets that cost mp, no party buff skills, inability to change a pet's skills, lack of a cheap way to restore mp. they're not replacing anyone with those flaws. playable class? yes. probly allot of fun? yes. my new main? yes. overpowered? nope. more desirable to squad with than previous classes? nope.

How is transferring mp to pet for using a skill any different than using a skill directly? Eruptions restore MP.

_Hysteria_ - Dreamweaver · January 2011

WhiteVodoo - Raging Tide wrote: »

um, why do you see more classes as doom for wizzardz venos and clerics? every class has a time and place they are needed, and when they are, they will get the squad slot.

when they hell would venos get kicked from a squad? is there a more useful class at all, i mean, it's like having a party, in a party, i'm supprised venos aren't stealing all the party slots, and if they aren't, mystics won't either.

when would clerics get kicked form a squad? yeah, sure, mystics can heal, but if there's not cleric, where is the squad gonna get all its buffs?...

and as for wizards, IF you can find any, and you need steady, consistant high damage being delt over long periods of time, wizards are the most mp efficient class on the game, wellspring quaff and glacial embrace go a long way. in that situation, anyone intelligent would choose them for the squad.

mystics are not mp efficient, because unlike venos, they can't restore mp at no cost, or exchange their hp amount for their mp amount. oh, and also, unlike venos, their pet's skills cost mp, which gets transfered to the pet from the mystic, so there goes more mana. ya gettin my point here? pets that cost mp, no party buff skills, inability to change a pet's skills, lack of a cheap way to restore mp. they're not replacing anyone with those flaws. playable class? yes. probly allot of fun? yes. my new main? yes. overpowered? nope. more desirable to squad with than previous classes? nope.

your naive if you really think people still want us, only reason im not worried is cuz my faction are all really good freinds so i know they dont care, otherwise id be done with my wiz for sure, randoms barely want us, after patch rofl bb wizards who dont have alot of friends.

Naivety - Harshlands · January 2011

tweakz wrote: »

Venos do NOT restore MP at no cost anymore than Wiz's or other Mage classes that I know of. Soul Transfusion costs 1 spark (100 chi which equates to MP for other classes). Nature's Grace has a 5 minute cool down and takes an investment. Venos don't get near as much MP per mag, and eruption mp recov is based on max MP (which wiz's get more of from Wellspring Quaff and by being a Wiz).

How is transferring mp to pet for using a skill any different than using a skill directly? Eruptions restore MP.

MP regen is based on your Mag points, not maximum MP. I do believe Okeano posted the calculation a while back, and I think it was 20 Mag = 1MP/s recovery.

As a lil proof, my sin would have exceeded her natural 1 MP/s recovery by now, what with have 2.5k MP. I know a level 10 Cleric will regen at at least 2 per second, and I know I have more MP than them.

Vorken - Archosaur · January 2011

tweakz wrote: »

How is transferring mp to pet for using a skill any different than using a skill directly? Eruptions restore MP.

A veno's pet skills (bash, fleash ream, debuffs, etc.) do not require mp. A mystic has to transfer his mp to the pet so that the pet can use it's skills. Also, a mystic pet is summoned with half hp, so you have to heal it after summoning. This increases the mp cost of switching from one specialized pet to another (unlike veno who can pull with a fast pet and switch to a tank pet and the tank pet starts with full hp).

WhiteVodoo - Raging Tide · January 2011

tweakz wrote: »

Venos do NOT restore MP at no cost anymore than Wiz's or other Mage classes that I know of. Soul Transfusion costs 1 spark (100 chi which equates to MP for other classes). Nature's Grace has a 5 minute cool down and takes an investment. Venos don't get near as much MP per mag, and eruption mp recov is based on max MP (which wiz's get more of from Wellspring Quaff and by being a Wiz).

How is transferring mp to pet for using a skill any different than using a skill directly? Eruptions restore MP.

tweakz, plz do yer homework you stupid trolling noob.

it's different than using a skill because veno pets can use their skills without an mp consumption. having pets that us mp aswell is yet anouther area of mp consumption.

nature's grace takes an investment, fckn duh, so do all skills. wellspring quaff costs cash, so does glacial embrace, and so does every other skill. why the hell would i be saying they have a skill that costs no cash? what i was saying is that it costs no fckn mp or chi.

seriously, do you not use your character as yer name on the forums so you can be as stupid as you'd like without people knowing who you are to kill you ingame?

tweakz · January 2011

Naivety - Harshlands wrote: »

MP regen is based on your Mag points, not maximum MP.

Show me where I said it was. -quote with source link!

WhiteVodoo - Raging Tide · January 2011

_Hysteria_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »

your naive if you really think people still want us, only reason im not worried is cuz my faction are all really good freinds so i know they dont care, otherwise id be done with my wiz for sure, randoms barely want us, after patch rofl bb wizards who dont have alot of friends.

anyone intelligent would want a wizard in a squad for a magic DD. psychics are not mp efficient, and wizards can last forever without a break. wizards=pve, psychics=pvp. anyone who can't see that, i don't want to party with anyway, and anyone who sees a good wizard in action will want that wizard in their party all the time in the future, wizards do amazing damage. the only reason people think they don't want a wizard in their party is because the forums diss them non-stop for no reason, and talk like psychics are replacing them. then the forums posters take that opinion ingame. then new people hear this and go "crud, now nobody will want me in a party" and switch from wizards to a different class. maybe if everyone stopped dissing wizards and started talking about their incredible lvl 59 AoEs all the time, there would be more wizards. and maybe if everyone on the forums would start stressing how bad a psychic's defence was, there would be less psychics. just a theory, but, makes abit of sence, does it not?

WhiteVodoo - Raging Tide · January 2011

Naivety - Harshlands wrote: »

MP regen is based on your Mag points, not maximum MP. I do believe Okeano posted the calculation a while back, and I think it was 20 Mag = 1MP/s recovery.

um, nope, it's based on max mp, wow, tweakz was right for once...

Vorken - Archosaur wrote: »

A veno's pet skills (bash, fleash ream, debuffs, etc.) do not require mp. A mystic has to transfer his mp to the pet so that the pet can use it's skills. Also, a mystic pet is summoned with half hp, so you have to heal it after summoning. This increases the mp cost of switching from one specialized pet to another (unlike veno who can pull with a fast pet and switch to a tank pet and the tank pet starts with full hp).

what he said...

Mooy - Heavens Tear · January 2011

Um are there summon's skills translated already or I need to translate it to show the mp cost of it?

_Hysteria_ - Dreamweaver · January 2011

WhiteVodoo - Raging Tide wrote: »

anyone intelligent would want a wizard in a squad for a magic DD. psychics are not mp efficient, and wizards can last forever without a break. wizards=pve, psychics=pvp. anyone who can't see that, i don't want to party with anyway, and anyone who sees a good wizard in action will want that wizard in their party all the time in the future, wizards do amazing damage. the only reason people think they don't want a wizard in their party is because the forums diss them non-stop for no reason, and talk like psychics are replacing them. then the forums posters take that opinion ingame. then new people hear this and go "crud, now nobody will want me in a party" and switch from wizards to a different class. maybe if everyone stopped dissing wizards and started talking about their incredible lvl 59 AoEs all the time, there would be more wizards. and maybe if everyone on the forums would start stressing how bad a psychic's defence was, there would be less psychics. just a theory, but, makes abit of sence, does it not?

theres your first problem, half the game is idiots if not more, therefore wizards dont get invited like they should, level up more and youd find that out, until then continue being naive or better yet just **** and gtfo.

not to mention your horrendously wrong about psys

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear · January 2011

Didn't these was about Venomancer x Mystic b:bye . .
Anyway i am still curious about mystic summon on higher level did it going to had same fate with venomancer pet or different ? b:bye
(since we know one of the summons has same aspd as phoenix)
Now if there legendary summons pack . . unicorn, wood golem, ifrit, hercules (mythology) everyone ?
But since summons is part of their skill, i don't know how to connect with the pack

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear · January 2011

_Hysteria_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »

not to mention your horrendously wrong about psys

Yep. Another idiot generalizing a class again.

tweakz · January 2011

WhiteVodoo - Raging Tide wrote: »

um, nope, it's based on max mp, wow, tweakz was right for once...

what he said...

Good thing for you that this forum tolerates pathetic personal attacks, but please show us where I've ever been wrong w/o admitting to it.

Mooy - Heavens Tear · January 2011

Summon's stats are depend on the caster and pet's stats are on it own. Not sure about the mp transfer rate of Mystic to summon. Summon's skills mp cost somewhere around 300 at rank 10. Not too much I think. But the 3rd summon's second skill...

花开并蒂:
Mp: 70
Channel time: 3seconds
Cast time: 1second
Cooldown: 60seconds
Absorb 40% damage for a friendly target. Each damage absorb cost 2 mp. Last 50sec.

Seem like going to drain all mp if fighting boss.

_Hysteria_ - Dreamweaver · January 2011

also @ WhiteVoodoo, you do realize psy have a defense lvl buff, so if you think we have more pdef thx to stone barrier, you realize the difference is really small right????? so saying psys have no def was a lame argument if ur comparing them to a wizard, but like i said before, that whole post of yours was horrendously wrong bout psys. not trying to come off as a **** but next time provide a better argument. b:bye

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver · January 2011

Mooy - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Summon's stats are depend on the caster and pet's stats are on it own. Not sure about the mp transfer rate of Mystic to summon. Summon's skills mp cost somewhere around 300 at rank 10. Not too much I think. But the 3rd summon's second skill...

花开并蒂:
Mp: 70
Channel time: 3seconds
Cast time: 1second
Cooldown: 60seconds
Absorb 40% damage for a friendly target. Each damage absorb cost 2 mp. Last 50sec.

Seem like going to drain all mp if fighting boss.

does it stack with bb?

ViciousMinx - Dreamweaver · January 2011

nah they are just another throw away DD class that's going to have a hard time getting tanks an clerics to lvl them up. All we as venos have to do is just sit back an laugh.

tweakz wrote: »

Venos do NOT restore MP at no cost anymore than Wiz's or other Mage classes that I know of. Soul Transfusion costs 1 spark (100 chi which equates to MP for other classes). Nature's Grace has a 5 minute cool down and takes an investment. Venos don't get near as much MP per mag, and eruption mp recov is based on max MP (which wiz's get more of from Wellspring Quaff and by being a Wiz).

How is transferring mp to pet for using a skill any different than using a skill directly? Eruptions restore MP.

Oh an by the way natures grace costs nothing to use just so u know

tweakz · January 2011

ViciousMinx - Dreamweaver wrote: »

nah they are just another throw away DD class that's going to have a hard time getting tanks an clerics to lvl them up. All we as venos have to do is just sit back an laugh.

Oh an by the way natures grace costs nothing to use just so u know

Time; and continue beyond the yellow. Wiz recovers more of it's MP with eruption but the time is made up for in extra dmg.

Laranda - Heavens Tear · January 2011

tweakz wrote: »

How is transferring mp to pet for using a skill any different than using a skill directly? Eruptions restore MP.

The pet could die/be sacrificed before that mp gets used. I'm doubtful a mystic is refunded mp if the summon goes away before the mp gets used.

A mystic may not want to use eruptions for mp recovery. The final summon is a 2 spark skill and may prove more valuable than sparking for all we know. Given the restrictions, it's likely very dangerous. (The stat screenshot of the lv100 summon is of the first, tank-like summon.)

Mooy - Heavens Tear · January 2011

Last summon need 0mp to use skill.

Brionni - Harshlands · January 2011

Do they need to make half an hour preparations before they can attack a mob? At least their videos left such feelings, it took minutes to get ready to attack a lvl 20 skeletonb:laugh
Slowpokish gameplay it seems to beb:laugh
I still do not understand with what purpose and why they were released if we have venos. All talks about how different are veno/mystic roles seem to be trash (no offence). Veno - pet summoning/debuffing, mystic - pet summoning/buffing, wtf? Do we really need this? To me it seems an absolute duplication of the already existing class, just like wizards/psys.

Mooy - Heavens Tear · January 2011

Mooy - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Last summon: Destoryer-God of Fire (灾星-火神)
Skill 1: Spirit Plant Ghost Eyes (幽植鬼瞳)
Mp: 0
Channel: 0.3sec
Cast time: 0.9sec
Cd: 6sec
Deal 400% of summon's fire base damage to all enemies within 5m radius of target. Additional 2500 fire damage deal over 6sec.

Skill 2: Wild Fire (星火燎原)
Mp: 0
Channel: 1sec
Cast time: 1.5sec
Cd: 10sec
Deal 300% summon's phyical damage to all enemies within 10m radius of self.

Look at the cd of the skill, you can use more than 3 times, and their base damage isn't that great too. The damage is almost same as Veno's pet

Here the skill of the last summon.

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear · January 2011

we're already having trouble, ever since the fairies were introduced. tanks use zeal ones to pull instead of us, much of the time. this is just going to put that much more pressure on we venos.

ViciousMinx - Dreamweaver · January 2011

tweakz wrote: »

Time; and continue beyond the yellow. Wiz recovers more of it's MP with eruption but the time is made up for in extra dmg.

No need to read beyond when the initial remark was incorrect. Natures grace costs nothing. End of story.

ViciousMinx - Dreamweaver · January 2011

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear wrote: »

we're already having trouble, ever since the fairies were introduced. tanks use zeal ones to pull instead of us, much of the time. this is just going to put that much more pressure on we venos.

It is fun watching them miss pull with a zeal an die because of it. I honestly haven't had a problem with this. I always make it clear that ill be pulling an its not a issue. If some do try I just snatch it from em anyway an they don't do it again.

tweakz · January 2011

ViciousMinx - Dreamweaver wrote: »

No need to read beyond when the initial remark was incorrect. Natures grace costs nothing. End of story.

Sorry if it's not simple enough for you. Nature's Grace has a cool down. It also takes time to perform, therefore you could compare it to meditating for MP. You can easily burn through well over 30k mp within that 5 minute cooldown.

AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary · January 2011

ViciousMinx - Dreamweaver wrote: »

No need to read beyond when the initial remark was incorrect. Natures grace costs nothing. End of story.

No, just ... no.

But i'm sorry i'm for once standing up for what Tweakz has said. ( unless i have also, like you, misread what there has been said )

The initial remark was based on the fact that there had been said that veno's effortlessly restore Mp opposed to mystics.
IF and IF you actually read that part instead of singeling out ONE remark then yeah, you are right. natures grace does not consume anything except the costs/spirit to learn it.
BUT in regards of effortlessly restoring MP not even veno's with an arsenal of MP restoring ways/skills do we in no way what so ever do that without a cost.

Like he said, Soul transfusion requires a spark, IF your not charmed, not in a BB nor being healed properly that's a case of A) is there aoe to be worried about or

is there enough time to use metabolic boost ? If no heals, bb or time to cast said skill, Pottin it = expense = effort = not effortless.

Then, natures grace IF you got it sure, handy as hell BUT even THEN if you are in an instance that requires you to use skills more often and quicker than when your simply grinding/killing mobs, does it allow you to be waiting on a 5 fricken minute cooldown ( if your sage, shorter if your demon by 90 seconds ) ? No.
Because your squad wants to continue and you can cast sh*t if your waiting on that cooldown.
Suuure you can then resort to the prior mentioned option when your not casting, but what if you already used it, gave away your spark ? or your stuck in an aoe, your spamhealing without the liberty to stop or else pet dies.

The list continues in options that you cant lazily wait for cooldowns or sit down and medi.
relying on mp regen is completely out of question.

so ... No. we do not do it effortlessly.
but yes, the skill itself does not consume anything at its cast but that wasn't what was being discussed. There's your end of story.

and damnit, tweakz you ninja'd me ! b:cry

Laranda - Heavens Tear · January 2011

Honestly, this whole argument sounds silly.

It boils down to that venos have access to a way of recovering mp that mystics lack. Sure, mystics will have ways to recover mp, but those ways are shared by other classes. Nature's Grace and Soul Transfusion are veno only.

Mooy - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Here the skill of the last summon.

Thank you.

Kinda nice to see there is a summon that can aoe, that's pretty cool.

Brionni - Harshlands wrote: »

I still do not understand with what purpose and why they were released if we have venos. All talks about how different are veno/mystic roles seem to be trash (no offence). Veno - pet summoning/debuffing, mystic - pet summoning/buffing, wtf? Do we really need this? To me it seems an absolute duplication of the already existing class, just like wizards/psys.

On the summon side, it's an extension of the concept. How many venos can fuse with their pets or turn them into aoe grenades?

Any Venos worried Mystics will make us obsolete?

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