why does the playerbase want communistic servers?

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary · December 2010

Sherilys - Raging Tide wrote: »

Make it a new goal, farm the money the hardcore way, buy badges from CSers, bingo you get also your Rank 8 or Rank 9 without spending a dollar.

Of course it takes much in-game hard work than a CSer, but in the end it was the same for everything else.

You had to farm for your charms, you had to farm for your TTs, you had to farm for your D-Orbs, you had to farm for you Nix/Herc while the CSer was getting all those instant click.

I admire your optimism, and I'm genuinely curious what you plan to be farming to earn money.

TT weapons are now essentially worth nothing, and many pieces of TT armour are also now worthless since the Rank 6/8 pieces are cheaper and better. Some pieces will still hold some value, though, but their sale value is now capped by cheap chips from the cash shop.

Nirvana weapons/armour are now also of questionable worth, since Rank 8 makes a cheap and comparable alternative as people spend/merchant their way to their Rank 9, at which point Nirvana gear looks pretty mediocre.

So what are you planning to farm now? Mats? DQ items?

Tigriss_o - Raging Tide · December 2010

I'll behonest I bought badges. but not enough to get far between them and the oricles I got with tiger packs I should just about get back to where I was on HT b4 I took my long *** break and forgot that accounts info. Really only reason I'm cashopping anything other then clothes.

Epros - Raging Tide · December 2010

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »

I admire your optimism, and I'm genuinely curious what you plan to be farming to earn money.

TT weapons are now essentially worth nothing, and many pieces of TT armour are also now worthless since the Rank 6/8 pieces are cheaper and better. Some pieces will still hold some value, though, but their sale value is now capped by cheap chips from the cash shop.

Nirvana weapons/armour are now also of questionable worth, since Rank 8 makes a cheap and comparable alternative as people spend/merchant their way to their Rank 9, at which point Nirvana gear looks pretty mediocre.

So what are you planning to farm now? Mats? DQ items?

i farmed DQ items for the coin and DQ points. was pretty easy actually and made quite a bit of money doing it

Michael_Dark - Lost City · December 2010

Epros - Raging Tide wrote: »

i farmed DQ items for the coin and DQ points. was pretty easy actually and made quite a bit of money doing it

Define 'quite a bit of money'.

You used to be able to grind mobs for enough coin in an hour to get 5-10 gold.

With gold at 1.1-1.5m, how much gold can you grind in an hour?

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear · December 2010

Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »

Define 'quite a bit of money'.

You used to be able to grind mobs for enough coin in an hour to get 5-10 gold.

With gold at 1.1-1.5m, how much gold can you grind in an hour?

Or 2 to 3 mill gold price b:chuckle
If you not cser or top tier merchant (that always had lots gold in stock) you get screwed .. .

Epros - Raging Tide · December 2010

Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »

Define 'quite a bit of money'.

You used to be able to grind mobs for enough coin in an hour to get 5-10 gold.

With gold at 1.1-1.5m, how much gold can you grind in an hour?

price of gold fluctuates. i usually spent about 500k each on gold
yeah, ive spent more than twice that.
but you know what? 1 mil for 1 gold is only a problem for those that buy it in mass ammounts

Michael_Dark - Lost City · December 2010

Epros - Raging Tide wrote: »

price of gold fluctuates. i usually spent about 500k each on gold
yeah, ive spent more than twice that.
but you know what? 1 mil for 1 gold is only a problem for those that buy it in mass ammounts

Nice way to avoid the question.

I made 25 mil in my catshop today, after expenses. Was a rare day to make that much though.

How much money did you make grinding?

Minimus_ - Sanctuary · December 2010

You are throwing around words like "communism" and dont even know what it is otherwiese you would understand that its about game balance and not uniformation of economy.

Epros - Raging Tide · December 2010

Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »

Nice way to avoid the question.

I made 25 mil in my catshop today, after expenses. Was a rare day to make that much though.

How much money did you make grinding?

in an hour? enough to buy about 5 gold at 800k each
didnt think i avoided the qestion

Minimus_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

You are throwing around words like "communism" and dont even know what it is otherwiese you would understand that its about game balance and not uniformation of economy.

communism is the collection and redistribution of wealth so that none are at an advantage or disadvantage. which is what the player base seems to demand (QQ CSers have epic gear)
you should learn definitions brah

Kinjeto - Raging Tide · December 2010

WraithTanker - Sanctuary wrote: »

Well games are suppose to give you a goal.

Some people goal was rank 8, they spent thousands to get rank 8. NOW rank 8 is only 72 gold.

Some people goal was a lunar ring, the day the person farmed it, anni packs gave them out for 1 gold

some people goal was to farm the helmet and boots from OHT past maps, same as the lunar ring all in cash shop

People get things to easy. People want a challenge i miss the challenge out of gearing people.

Yeah but if you have a goal that is achieveable in one day where is the fun in that.

Goals in most MMORPGs are a time-based affair.

Then where would the 'play' aspect be.

Gameplay Aspect -> 1. The Skinner Box -> Make the player work for it. Keep them engaged
Gameplay Aspect -> 2. Non harmful gameplay -> Only make it so that the players have equal footing. (So charging for fashion: yes, Mounts yes {as long as the speed isn't a factor}

That above to ways are how you keep the game world happy. Which is always a plus.

PWI just hasn't learnt that as much as it is a business. You still have to have balance.

Take for instance Team Fortress 2 where everything is gettable, but the hats (for looks only) take time to get. This is good gameplay.

Giving "any player/s" an 'advantage' is ->bad gameplay<-.

So far they've (PWI) done a good job. They have kept the gold farming companies out of the game for the most part. PWI have made gold coins harder but not impossible to get. All they need to do is reassert the amount of time they would LIKE to make a profit over. Everquest has been going for the likes of 10 years.
World of ******** has been going since 2004 (Now 6 years)

The other interesting thing Perfect World Malaysia lasted barely 2007~2009 and a certain gold coin company destroyed that one.

Problem is: Perfect World (as advertised by Beijing) is advertised as a longitudinal role playing game. Which it isn't doing very much of. Also if you look at the Perfect World CN they do a P2P model but the gold farmers are in that thing.

Epros - Raging Tide · December 2010

Kinjeto - Raging Tide wrote: »

wall of tl;dr text

please sum this up to 1 or 2 sentances

Michael_Dark - Lost City · December 2010

Epros - Raging Tide wrote: »

in an hour? enough to buy about 5 gold at 800k each
didnt think i avoided the qestion

At level 41? Grinding... meaning by killing mobs? 4m in one hour? You're full of it.

b:bye

Haden - Dreamweaver · December 2010

<.<

>.>

I didnt think Russia was "Soviet" any longer. I thought they were..... um.... well not communist.

I guess we expect a game coming from a communist nation to be a bit communist?

Epros - Raging Tide · December 2010

Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »

At level 41? Grinding... meaning by killing mobs? 4m in one hour? You're full of it.

b:bye

im not posting on my main for a reason i cant discuss. simply go to my core connect page and you will see -____-

Michael_Dark - Lost City · December 2010

Epros - Raging Tide wrote: »

im not posting on my main for a reason i cant discuss. simply go to my core connect page and you will see -____-

Ok, 4m an hour is doable, but you're not 'grinding'. lol

Mik_scorpius - Heavens Tear · December 2010

Haden - Dreamweaver wrote: »

<.<

>.>

I didnt think Russia was "Soviet" any longer. I thought they were..... um.... well not communist.

I guess we expect a game coming from a communist nation to be a bit communist?

Haha, +1 to the last part!

Seriously though - to get facts straight (The following is for the OP):

1) Russia is a semi-presidential federation divided into 2 different houses of parlaiment. If you still live 30-50 years ago, then no wonder you can't keep up the facts.
2) Communism is, more precisely, democratic centralism. It means that it's ruling party contains everyone, and that within the party they have a clear ladder of ranks via party discipline - meaning if someone with a higher political rank than you says something, you must do it. This means the entire society becomes centered around 1 party.

The reason why communism failed in Russia is obvious - it became a dictature where the ones in top where the only ones having any means - the single individual working at a factory or in the field had a horrible life, with no economic or political freedom. Interestingly, it was by abusing the old communistic ideals of equality and humanity that especially Stalin turned Russia into one of the most cruel dictatures in the world.

However, everywhere people have too high differences between rich and poor, you have a problem. Some dynamics is completely tolerable and should be encouraged, but in order to have a society of fairness, humanity and freedom to seek the dream you choose, you should make sure that everyone has equal opportunity - and I as a dane see clearly that in America millions of people don't have the opportunity to rise from their present location simply because those with money have so unproportionalized advantages in all possible ways. So before you go into the old "USA is God, Russia the devil" mood, you might want to think again.

And don't respond "wall of text" - shorten down. If you want anything from a text you can read it - else don't respond.

Now, PWI economics have become specifically formed so that F2P players have almost no chance to do anything ingame. DQ has been nerfed, same with TT, same with TW - and at the same time PWI has made sure that coins are now less worth, and gold prices have risen skyhigh. In essence this means that unless you were already in a good position before the changes, or you spend a lot of money on the game, you won't have a chance to do anything really - well yes, you could of course spend your days farming for a year or so to just get a bit of what you need in order to follow up on those with a fat wallet who gets the same in 10 minutes.

Free market? Certainly. Fair? Not really. Balanced? Out of the question.

You mentioned the american dream, so I responded in this way - but as I am aware the american dream builds upon a great deal of fairness - where is that in here?

Siriner - Sanctuary · December 2010

Mik_scorpius - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Haha, +1 to the last part!

Seriously though - to get facts straight (The following is for the OP):

1) Russia is a semi-presidential federation divided into 2 different houses of parlaiment. If you still live 30-50 years ago, then no wonder you can't keep up the facts.
2) Communism is, more precisely, democratic centralism. It means that it's ruling party contains everyone, and that within the party they have a clear ladder of ranks via party discipline - meaning if someone with a higher political rank than you says something, you must do it. This means the entire society becomes centered around 1 party.

The reason why communism failed in Russia is obvious - it became a dictature where the ones in top where the only ones having any means - the single individual working at a factory or in the field had a horrible life, with no economic or political freedom. Interestingly, it was by abusing the old communistic ideals of equality and humanity that especially Stalin turned Russia into one of the most cruel dictatures in the world.

However, everywhere people have too high differences between rich and poor, you have a problem. Some dynamics is completely tolerable and should be encouraged, but in order to have a society of fairness, humanity and freedom to seek the dream you choose, you should make sure that everyone has equal opportunity - and I as a dane see clearly that in America millions of people don't have the opportunity to rise from their present location simply because those with money have so unproportionalized advantages in all possible ways. So before you go into the old "USA is God, Russia the devil" mood, you might want to think again.

And don't respond "wall of text" - shorten down. If you want anything from a text you can read it - else don't respond.

Now, PWI economics have become specifically formed so that F2P players have almost no chance to do anything ingame. DQ has been nerfed, same with TT, same with TW - and at the same time PWI has made sure that coins are now less worth, and gold prices have risen skyhigh. In essence this means that unless you were already in a good position before the changes, or you spend a lot of money on the game, you won't have a chance to do anything really - well yes, you could of course spend your days farming for a year or so to just get a bit of what you need in order to follow up on those with a fat wallet who gets the same in 10 minutes.

Free market? Certainly. Fair? Not really. Balanced? Out of the question.

You mentioned the american dream, so I responded in this way - but as I am aware the american dream builds upon a great deal of fairness - where is that in here?

+1 to this post.

If they really wanted to earn real profit, they might as well quit the company hire new ppl to replace them with dedicated employees and join a p2p mmo company...

DTK - Dreamweaver · December 2010

This is just all too funny. If people who spent 10k+ USD are quitting, and those who spent 20k+ are considering quitting, just how long do you think PWI will last? Mass amounts of endgame people quitting means dead game. After major cashoppers leave, farmers leave, then the game will pretty much unable to go on. Didnt the european servers close like 2 weeks ago or something? Around the same time these insane sales started to happen? Coincidence? Perhaps PWI is trying to squeeze out as much money as they can before shutting down for good? Either way I quit for sure. It would take me 1-2 month to farm rank 8 even at the current prices thanks to all mats dropping by so much. Lower mat prices and higher gold? I don't know about you all but to me that is just wrong. Sure PWI is F2P, but its purely pay to win now. At least with ani packs it was a chance..... now its just spend 72$ and get end game gear that normal players can only dream of!!!. I simply regret getting my TT100 last month waste of money. This game is dying for sure within the next 3 months or so. Dont believe me if you dont want to, but all the signs are pointing to it. Loyal players quitting, and even huge cashshoppers..... 2 am **** editingb:bye

FallenSnow - Raging Tide · December 2010

Mik_scorpius - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Haha, +1 to the last part!

Seriously though - to get facts straight (The following is for the OP):

1) Russia is a semi-presidential federation divided into 2 different houses of parlaiment. If you still live 30-50 years ago, then no wonder you can't keep up the facts.
2) Communism is, more precisely, democratic centralism. It means that it's ruling party contains everyone, and that within the party they have a clear ladder of ranks via party discipline - meaning if someone with a higher political rank than you says something, you must do it. This means the entire society becomes centered around 1 party.

The reason why communism failed in Russia is obvious - it became a dictature where the ones in top where the only ones having any means - the single individual working at a factory or in the field had a horrible life, with no economic or political freedom. Interestingly, it was by abusing the old communistic ideals of equality and humanity that especially Stalin turned Russia into one of the most cruel dictatures in the world.

However, everywhere people have too high differences between rich and poor, you have a problem. Some dynamics is completely tolerable and should be encouraged, but in order to have a society of fairness, humanity and freedom to seek the dream you choose, you should make sure that everyone has equal opportunity - and I as a dane see clearly that in America millions of people don't have the opportunity to rise from their present location simply because those with money have so unproportionalized advantages in all possible ways. So before you go into the old "USA is God, Russia the devil" mood, you might want to think again.

And don't respond "wall of text" - shorten down. If you want anything from a text you can read it - else don't respond.

Now, PWI economics have become specifically formed so that F2P players have almost no chance to do anything ingame. DQ has been nerfed, same with TT, same with TW - and at the same time PWI has made sure that coins are now less worth, and gold prices have risen skyhigh. In essence this means that unless you were already in a good position before the changes, or you spend a lot of money on the game, you won't have a chance to do anything really - well yes, you could of course spend your days farming for a year or so to just get a bit of what you need in order to follow up on those with a fat wallet who gets the same in 10 minutes.

Free market? Certainly. Fair? Not really. Balanced? Out of the question.

You mentioned the american dream, so I responded in this way - but as I am aware the american dream builds upon a great deal of fairness - where is that in here?

thats actually the reason i said he has no idea of economics, but i m to lazy to translate every poo to english. so ty +1

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary · December 2010

Kinjeto - Raging Tide wrote: »

Take for instance Team Fortress 2 where everything is gettable, but the hats (for looks only) take time to get. This is good gameplay.

My video-gaming life consists mostly of either TF2 or PWI, and I constantly find myself comparing the two companies as polar opposites.

Could you imagine PWI constantly releasing new content for 2 1/2 years, all for free? Can you imagine them standing up to Microsoft and saying, "Since you won't relent on your policy of, 'no free downloadable content', then we're pouring all our resources into improving the version of the game where we can give our players free stuff instead"?

And when, after 2 1/2 years they finally open a cash-shop, can you imagine PWI deciding, "Everything in the cash-shop will be something that is either purely cosmetic or else you can get it for free or trade for in-game with about a week's worth of effort at the most, and absolutely nothing will ever give you a clear advantage over the standard items everybody starts with"?

Or how about, "Players who contributed content to the game will get 25% of the profits from sales of that content to other players," which thus leads to dozens of PWI players getting cheques for $50,000 in the very first week alone for the items that they made models for?

Yeah, me neither...

skysing · December 2010

Epros - Raging Tide wrote: »

in an hour? enough to buy about 5 gold at 800k each
didnt think i avoided the qestion

so..in an hour grind, you can make 4m?b:cry wasted 2 minutes of my time reading this thread

/Groovy/ - Harshlands · December 2010

Epros - Raging Tide wrote: »

stuff

There's a difference between your intentions and what you received.

Your intention was to buy r8 cheap to get an advantage over other players.

Unfortunately for you, people raged about this feature, some quit the game because they couldn't afford it, other quit because they just didn't like it.

Everyone else bought r8, just like you.

You spent 72$ (or 72$ worth of in-game coins, whatever) to remain average. Average, nothing more, nothing less.

Okeano - Harshlands · December 2010

OP, do you even know what communism is? Or are you just throwing that word around like when people called Obama a communist?

FallenSnow - Raging Tide · December 2010

i m actually waiting till he runs to forums QQ "i bought a charm for 5mil but idc cause i grind it within an hour"

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver · December 2010

Epros - Raging Tide wrote: »

i DO get it. i started heavens tear server when it was released. i know what playing USED to be like. i also know how insanely hard it was to get gear back then, especially considering i didnt CS on HT. the point im making is, i have a job, i cant spend all day farming for years to get something i want, so what if i want to throw some RL cash i WORKED HARD FOR to get the same result faster? point is, i was getting r8 anyway, this merely hastened the process by about 3 months.

no u dont. perhaps pwi should have released the new sale after 3 months.

you will have paid r8 for ~800gold (not necessarily bought with rl $) and then everyone you spent 72 gold will run with the same gear with you. that's the problem.

Darth_Puggy - Archosaur · December 2010

My spin on this is there are 2 main issues non-paying players have with CSers.
1: Envy.
and/or
2: on PvP servers it must really suck to get beat by some know-nothing rich kids with gear but few skills.

Epros - Raging Tide · December 2010

/Groovy/ - Harshlands wrote: »

There's a difference between your intentions and what you received.

Your intention was to buy r8 cheap to get an advantage over other players.

Unfortunately for you, people raged about this feature, some quit the game because they couldn't afford it, other quit because they just didn't like it.

Everyone else bought r8, just like you.

You spent 72$ (or 72$ worth of in-game coins, whatever) to remain average. Average, nothing more, nothing less.

um....you forget DQ points and FBs and OMA's
it isnt ALL about money ya know ;D

Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »

OP, do you even know what communism is? Or are you just throwing that word around like when people called Obama a communist?

obama is more accurately a socialist, and socialism is usually (not always) a precursor to communism.

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »

no u dont. perhaps pwi should have released the new sale after 3 months.

you will have paid r8 for ~800gold (not necessarily bought with rl $) and then everyone you spent 72 gold will run with the same gear with you. that's the problem.

you dont think i didnt bust my *** enough to get 170k rep without spending a dime of RL cash? yeah i get it, all my hard work useless in a matter of 1 patch. but you know what? i stay optimistic. i actually enjoy this game. so when sales like this happen i get excited. better than all the fashion ****.

Silest - Sanctuary · December 2010

Epros - Raging Tide wrote: »

(im looking at you casters)

Im trying to figure out why we are subject to insults and such.

Mik_scorpius - Heavens Tear · December 2010

Epros - Raging Tide wrote: »

obama is more accurately a socialist, and socialism is usually (not always) a precursor to communism.

Lol say what?

Socialism is one of the 3 cornerstones in parlamentaric democracy - Conservatism, Liberalism, Socialism. Socialism is not a precursor to communism since communism, as I mentioned in my earlier post (which you didn't respond to for some reason), is democratic centralism; not parlamentaric democracy.
Socialism is simply the democratic model which goes more towards wellfare and equal opportunity through wellfare and high taxes rather than social security from the family (as conservatives) or insurances (liberalism). Interestingly, in the countries that adapt socialist wellfare models, liberal market models, and keeps conservative models in certain other areas, end out with very rich populations - Scandinavia is a very good example, all having high taxes and huge wellfaremodels.
In Denmark where I live we have free education, healthcare, and the society as a whole has the responsibility to make sure everyone has basic sanitarian conditions, and that everyone is able to stay alive and have a roof over your head no matter what economic condition you're in. In other words, everyone has the opportunity to fulfill their dreams. Interestingly, even though we pay high taxes, the average dane is more rich and educated than the average american.
And no - we don't allow communists nor national-socialists in our parlaiment - it is naturally forbidden since those parties are not specifically parlamentarian democratic. In other words, violation of our constitution cannot happen unless there is a majority vote to change it (meaning the will of the people is assured in order to change it - I belive it's 75% 2 times in a row with 6 months difference for a change of the constitution).

Now, if you really want to discuss anything about politics, please make sure you don't just make populistic exclamations about the subject.

And from my point of view, Obama is one of the most liberal and broad-working politicians I have ever seen - being able to cooperate across several borders is a huge achievement, especially when it's across the 2 large blocks of the american Senate - and considering the present financial discussions I think it shows it pretty obviously.

/Groovy/ - Harshlands · December 2010

Epros - Raging Tide wrote: »

um....you forget DQ points and FBs and OMA's
it isnt ALL about money ya know ;D

If that was a joke then it wasn't funny.

Even assuming you could farm 200 reputation every single day, it would still take almost 3 years to get rank 8.

So before you'd farm it in-game, there would be already rank 10 (if not 11) already available in Cashshop.

I'll pass, even Fake PW is more fun, at least everyone has similar gear there :P

why does the playerbase want communistic servers?

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