TW Discussion - Twilight Temple

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

So why don't they want to go through Regicide? We never planned on taking the map, but it's pretty much being handed to us. We want fun TWs as much as the next faction does, but fun TWs aren't forced.... Both sides need to have the incentive to want to TW. When the other faction's morale is low and disinterested, their sign ups will follow suit...

TW's aren't fun when they're 5 minute rolls and you can choose to just make the TW longer just so you guys can up your kill counts. Face it Dan, you guys wanted to take Nef out of the competition, you did that, if you want more fun TW's, allow other factions to have more fun so maybe one day they can feel confident enough to attack you, but you guys just blocking everybody off from a fun TW doesn't make people want to attack you. Limiting the amount of land a faction can take just makes people want to keep the land they have and do nothing until one day, just maybe, they can be as well geared as a majority of the members of your faction and gain the confidence to attack you. You want fun, but you're limiting the amount of fun everybody else can have.

Regi could easily have declared on LC to block off both Vind and LG a few weeks ago but they didn't. Now LG and Vind are having their long TWs against each other. Regi kept taking no-shows from Nef instead of hitting the other landed factions for a long time. If Regi did attack these factions, Nef and Regi together would've devoured them quickly and there would have been no other landed factions today to "block off". Where would Vind, LG, or Enely be if Regi decided to hit them when they first got land? For the last few months, I think Regi fought Vind once or twice. To say Regi is ruining your fun is completely forgetting how much they've held back all this time.

legendary has strategy? credit card > experience

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

If you were referring to me; I actually think I understood him quite well. I'm going to assert myself again... How can anyone assume what's fun or not without first trying? I doubt we could double or triple defend any of the next top 3 faction if they actually took the time and effort into organizing a full 80 front.

I don't know what faction Hitori is in, and I only refuted his points of a certain faction that killed TW because they blocked everyone off from "fun TW." Fun TW is quite subjective, what may be fun to me, may not be fun for others, and vise versa. However; dead TW, in my eyes is any lack of motivation or ability to compete. And imo, I think the ability is there. No faction on this server has been strong enough to 100% been able to double/triple defend successfully each and every time. Regi Enel LG RR proved this, now it's up to the rest to prove it again.

I'm sorry if people think we killed TW; that was not our intention, but the challenge and fun TW is always there for whomever wishes to seek it. Liberate "the killers of TW" from the map. I can't make anyone do it. TW will stay dead so long as the motivation or ability to compete is absent.

no... the first part was not towards you... i was more responding to akyta which is why my post was talking about fun v. competative TW/ how it relates to Legendary (from my eyes) and since you were the first to make an argument towards it, that specific "you" was you and clearly marked you

TW is not dead lol

Strife_son - Sanctuary wrote: »

legendary has strategy? credit card > experience

lol b:chuckle

Leg do have strategy but is a dirty strategy such as adding friends during TW to interrupting people and get them kill. other then that they got nothing!

This thread getting interesting to read again.

Risingdragon - Sanctuary wrote: »

Leg do have strategy but is a dirty strategy such as adding friends during TW to interrupting people and get them kill. other then that they got nothing!

If this is your ultimate reason for why LG does as well as they do against such a brute power house like Vindicate, then I would encourage the rest of the readers of this thread to point and laugh at you.

I'm interested in hearing more about this "brilliant" strategist that LG has. I also hear that he is quite handsome :O moarmoar!

Mendolin - Sanctuary wrote: »

-Dan- that post that you quoted of mine earlier? did you read it xD cuz... i kinda already said LG lacks the confidence blah blah blah... and maybe they would see that they arent as bad as they think are

Yes, I read your post Mendy; I just didn't understand Hitori's logic behind saying Regi is strong enough to roll LG in 5 minutes and barrage spawn camp them. Even Regicide when they were freshly #2 to Nef lasted 30 minutes in an 80v80 at a minimum.

If LG > Nef and Nef lasted 45 minutes against Regi in a triple defense 3v1... I simply can't agree with such a bold statement without even first trying, that LG would get rolled by Regi in 5 minutes in an 80v80.

Sorry for the double post b:cry

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

Yes, I read your post Mendy; I just didn't understand Hitori's logic behind saying Regi is strong enough to roll LG in 5 minutes and barrage spawn camp them. Even Regicide when they were freshly #2 to Nef lasted 30 minutes in an 80v80 at a minimum.

If LG > Nef and Nef lasted 45 minutes against Regi in a triple defense 3v1... I simply can't agree with such a bold statement without even first trying, that LG would get rolled by Regi in 5 minutes in an 80v80.

I didn't say that LG would get rolled in 5 minutes, I have no idea how long we would last, I would love to fight you guys even though I know It would just be a kill fest. I'm not really speaking about LG here though, probably should have mentioned that. I'm speaking about some of the smaller factions. After Nef took most of the map, a lot of the smaller factions stopped trying. But now that Reg has taken a majority of the map, the smaller factions feel they now have a chance to take out Nef land. But everybody knows that Reg would be near impossible to beat unless for whatever reason you guys either no-showed or had very few signups. IMO your 50-70 signups with people that have +10 on everything > 80 sign ups with people who can barely get stuff to +5.

*Sigh* You're going to make me do this aren't you? b:surrender

Hitori_Hanso - Sanctuary wrote: »

It's only dead because one specific faction has cut off every faction with land from attacking anybody unless they want to go through Regicide. But hey, you guys wanted to take down Nefarious, how's it feel now? b:thanks

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

We never planned on taking the map, but it's pretty much being handed to us. We want fun TWs as much as the next faction does, but fun TWs aren't forced.... Both sides need to have the incentive to want to TW. When the other faction's morale is low and disinterested, their sign ups will follow suit...

From your posts, it seems people have already given up and assumed a loss before even entering the TW.

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Regi could easily have declared on LC to block off both Vind and LG a few weeks ago but they didn't. Now LG and Vind are having their long TWs against each other. Regi kept taking no-shows from Nef instead of hitting the other landed factions for a long time. If Regi did attack these factions, Nef and Regi together would've devoured them quickly and there would have been no other landed factions today to "block off". Where would Vind, LG, or Enely be if Regi decided to hit them when they first got land? For the last few months, I think Regi fought Vind once or twice. To say Regi is ruining your fun is completely forgetting how much they've held back all this time.

Minimus - Sanctuary wrote: »

Interesting how ppl see it now but it was the same specific faction who "liberated" the map together with two other factions so TW became interesting again. It is a free decision by other factions to attack the "specific faction" or not. It's not as if this specific faction built an unsurmountable wall and is untouchable and cutting off some1 from something

This... ^ We're not so strong to be able to 5 minute roll everyone, and before people have attempted to TW us, they already assume we're untouchable. We haven't forced anyone to attack us either, LG and Vindicate are TWing each other, are they not?

pitt4 wrote: »

i doubt tw would return to reg as it could have been until nef has been wipe off the map and maybe also a lot more maps, since who the hell goes for a very very difficult target like reg ^^


oh evga here >.> i got ban lol

It seems as if we attack Nef we are blocking people form fun TW, if we attack the other land holding factions, we're limiting their growth, if we beat a faction in 5 minutes it means we're discouraging people from TWing us. So what is the point of TW if this is the case?

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm going to assert myself again... How can anyone assume what's fun or not without first trying? I doubt we could double or triple defend any of the next top 3 faction if they actually took the time and effort into organizing a full 80 front.

I was strictly referring to the next top 3-4 TW factions. Weak factions will get 5 minute rolled no matter who they face. In the end, it's not the small factions or the casual TWers that are going to get land, it's the most competitive and most experienced factions that will.

Mendolin - Sanctuary wrote: »

legendary although gifted with a great TW strategist... lacks the confidence to take up the challenge of regicide- although some members are a good match for regicide... the majority does not compare in gear, experience and overall knowledge of TW. what makes vindicate a good match is that even though they outgear legendary... legendary makes up for it with strategy (in my opinion)

which would lead to hitori's response to dan... a fun TW to you (dan) would not necessarily be fun for legendary, vindi is a great challenge now and maybe soon the members will feel that they arent as bad as they think they are. you cant expect everyone to be as competative as you want them to be (like me xD)

if regicide wants to TW against legendary... dan can always click on a green territory when bidding instead of a red one...ijs

Actually we couldn't attack LG even if we wanted to, because slotting with Vindicate means 160 vs 80. Which is exactly what happened when we TWed Vindicate sharing a time slot with Nef. It's always going to be a no-show unless it's 1v1.

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

Fun TW is quite subjective, what may be fun to me, may not be fun for others, and vise versa. However; dead TW, in my eyes is any lack of motivation or ability to compete. And imo, I think the ability is there. No faction on this server has been strong enough to 100% been able to double/triple defend successfully each and every time. Regi Enel LG RR proved this, now it's up to the rest to prove it again.

Mendolin - Sanctuary wrote: »

TW is not dead lol

Hitori_Hanso - Sanctuary wrote: »

It's only dead because one specific faction has cut off every faction with land from attacking anybody unless they want to go through Regicide. But hey, you guys wanted to take down Nefarious, how's it feel now? b:thanks

To a certain degree, but that's what I've been refuting above. ^

Hitori_Hanso - Sanctuary wrote: »

TW's aren't fun when they're 5 minute rolls and you can choose to just make the TW longer just so you guys can up your kill counts. Face it Dan, you guys wanted to take Nef out of the competition, you did that, if you want more fun TW's, allow other factions to have more fun so maybe one day they can feel confident enough to attack you, but you guys just blocking everybody off from a fun TW doesn't make people want to attack you. Limiting the amount of land a faction can take just makes people want to keep the land they have and do nothing until one day, just maybe, they can be as well geared as a majority of the members of your faction and gain the confidence to attack you. You want fun, but you're limiting the amount of fun everybody else can have.

Hitori_Hanso - Sanctuary wrote: »

Dan, what I'm trying to say is that it's hard for people to compete against Regicide when your members out gear most of the TW community. Us in Legendary have a brilliant strategist but we are only decently geared compared to a majority of Regicide and some of Vindicate. A mass killing spree isn't an ideal situation for other factions, hence why I was saying that Regicide has in effect, done the same thing that Nefarious did; discourages people from TWing because of the 5 minute fights that just ends up with archers barraging the spawn points for 4 minutes raising their own kill counts. I would love to fight Regicide one day, but right now, we just aren't geared enough for that fight. And yes, gear does matter when you're going against BM's that have over 20k hp, barbs with over 30k hp, and wizards with over 10k hp.

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

Regicide was outgeared and outleveled by Nef for the longest time, but we didn't face Nef alone. I wasn't expecting or asking for anyone to beat us 1v1. TW relies heavily on numbers. It doesn't take 240 10x +10ed CSed players to beat our 50-70 sign ups a week for defense is all I'm saying.

Gear is a factor, but not the only factor as what you seem to suggest; the successful double/triple attacks against Nef proved that numbers > gear. You're still suggesting that gear is the most important factor in determining who wins a TW. Nef always had the 30K HP barb advantage when Regi had 18-24K HP barbs, and we were still able to hold.

I'm literally face-palming here.

Hitori_Hanso - Sanctuary wrote: »

Sorry for the double post b:cry
I didn't say that LG would get rolled in 5 minutes, I have no idea how long we would last, I would love to fight you guys even though I know It would just be a kill fest. I'm not really speaking about LG here though, probably should have mentioned that. I'm speaking about some of the smaller factions. After Nef took most of the map, a lot of the smaller factions stopped trying. But now that Reg has taken a majority of the map, the smaller factions feel they now have a chance to take out Nef land. But everybody knows that Reg would be near impossible to beat unless for whatever reason you guys either no-showed or had very few signups. IMO your 50-70 signups with people that have +10 on everything > 80 sign ups with people who can barely get stuff to +5.

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

I doubt we could double or triple defend any of the next top 3 faction if they actually took the time and effort into organizing a full 80 front.

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

Regicide was outgeared and outleveled by Nef for the longest time, but we didn't face Nef alone. I wasn't expecting or asking for anyone to beat us 1v1. TW relies heavily on numbers. It doesn't take 240 10x +10ed CSed players to beat our 50-70 sign ups a week for defense is all I'm saying. I believe people either a) underestimate themselves or b) overestimate us. We haven't legitimately taken 90% of our lands; a no show victory is not an accomplishment in my eyes.

I'm just going to quote myself again, because you're arguing again about gear being the most important factor. Small factions will get rolled in 5 minutes by any faction, not just Regi. Again, they don't have numbers or gear.

You're still arguing about 1v1s when I'm talking about 2v1s and 3v1s; TW is more about teamwork and numbers than gear. And for the record, our average gear is +5, only a small minority of our players have +10 gears. For each +10 we have, there's a +3 to make our average +5/+6.

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

Yes, I read your post Mendy; I just didn't understand Hitori's logic behind saying Regi is strong enough to roll LG in 5 minutes and barrage spawn camp them. Even Regicide when they were freshly #2 to Nef lasted 30 minutes in an 80v80 at a minimum.

If LG > Nef and Nef lasted 45 minutes against Regi in a triple defense 3v1... I simply can't agree with such a bold statement without even first trying, that LG would get rolled by Regi in 5 minutes in an 80v80.

My specific example here; if people actually tried, gave themselves more credit, and were a little more optimistic they'd realize they stand a chance. I can't agree if people assume a loss before trying, [where's the fun in that? Win or lose, you should at least try imo.

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

You're assuming when the time comes, LG would face Regi alone...Think they'll no-show one, roll the other two like Nef used to do? All of the current landed factions have come a long way since when they used to triple Nef, pretty sure LG won't get rolled by a split Regi force that easily.

Yup, numbers > gear.

Aliure - Sanctuary wrote: »

If regi wanted to kill TW, they would have just taken other factions off the map right away. Why would regi kill other ppls fun and kill their own fun at the same time? If they wanted to kill everyone's fun they at least wouldn't kill their own. Maybe i'm misunderstanding, but it doesn't make sense.

Also, what do you want regi to do? Make their chars weaker so it will be a level playing field? Regi worked hard to get to where they are now. Imo, regi would be a good and fun challenge to TW against.

Yep.

TL;DR: Numbers, skill, and coordination > Gear. I can back this up with over 2 years of TW experience.

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

Actually we couldn't attack LG even if we wanted to, because slotting with Vindicate means 160 vs 80. Which is exactly what happened when we TWed Vindicate sharing a time slot with Nef. It's always going to be a no-show unless it's 1v1.

using your words against you i will just say this..... how would you know if you have never done it?

im not saying you are wrong... but you seem to be pushing quite hard for other factions to do something lately.... why dont you do something? just trying to find you another solution maybe

and TW is not dead... i dont know why you are trying to refute that lol

Mendolin - Sanctuary wrote: »

no... the first part was not towards you... i was more responding to akyta which is why my post was talking about fun v. competative TW/ how it relates to Legendary (from my eyes) and since you were the first to make an argument towards it, that specific "you" was you and clearly marked you

TW is not dead lol

Hi mendy ;D

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

The challenge would be absent if we are to be slotted with Vindicate and outnumber our opponent 2:1; my theories have been accurate and supported for the last 6 months of no show TWs. We've tried waiting for factions to show up after their other wars are over, for a 1v1, we've tried not to slot with other factions as to fight with even numbers, we've tried to establish a sister faction for TWs. I've done all I can pretty much, the rest is up to the others to take up the challenge if they like.

I don't internally push factions to do anything, but I like to lift people's visions to higher sights... Think outside the box and be open minded from many perspectives. I just don't think some people give themselves enough credit. For the most part, we've given other factions 6 months to build up without interfering with their wars. We did not take LC and force LG and Vindicate to attack us for a reason. I hope people understand in the end, everyone plays the game for fun. And I can't really say anyone in Regi has had the opportunity to have any in over 6 months.

Umm, I wasn't refuting that TW was dead; just refuting that we did not block everyone off from having fun TW.

wait wait... so you like to lift people's visions but you already group legendary into a faction that will no show you if it's 2v1 when you have never done it before... im just sayin...

also stop taking everything personally- we all know regicide has worked to get where it is today and changed TW as we know it, no need to get defensive

Mendolin - Sanctuary wrote: »

wait wait... so you like to lift people's visions but you already group legendary into a faction that will no show you if it's 2v1 when you have never done it before... im just sayin...

also stop taking everything personally- we all know regicide has worked to get where it is today and changed TW as we know it, no need to get defensive

I only see open and honest discussion here tbh. Things are what they are, nothing to be upset about. When I say no show, I don't mean it in a literal sense, more like one isn't showing with their best. Imo, if a faction isn't able to bring their best to the table, or their forces are divided in half, or a third, they aren't showing with their best... That's why I think if one's only able to field half their people due to being outnumbered, they aren't really showing what they're capable of... if you know what I mean.

On a lighter note... Going to bed with with 3 blankies cause it's snowing here. b:cute