An Early GM Response to the TW Changes

Boogiepanda - Raging Tide · August 2010

I have Brilliant Plumes xD

I doubt any PWI players will play another PWE game >.<

MrCIeric - Dreamweaver · August 2010

eh well i guess pwi might die but i dunno most ppl i talked to dont care about the changes

MrCIeric - Dreamweaver · August 2010

MrCIeric - Dreamweaver wrote: »

eh well i guess pwi might die but i dunno most ppl i talked to dont care about the changes

anymore at least

Regenbogen - Lost City · August 2010

maybe instead of paying mirages pay with event gold...

this way redrose would still be able to buy new fash from tw salary...b:mischievous

xxxdsmer · August 2010

TW should stay the way it is now.

BILLIONS of coin coming ingame from TW map ALONE?

how could the fools not see that as the largest cause of inflation in the PWI economy? (aka all the ppl QQing about their tw pay)

let the economy deflate, and go farm or something to get ur stuff, enough with the sitting on your rears collecting billions of coins to make fake bids and wage a fake war. war costs, not pays. you want to play? (wage war) you got to pay. (go farm/grind/quest/merchant/whatever)\

and PS: if you dont like the changes b/c you want the uberinflated economy and 500k+ gold, gtfo. these things are ruining the game for those that dont have tens of thousands, or even thousands of dollars to spend on the game, and THAT is the majority of people in pwi. imagine how many people would still be here if those things hadnt happened due to the billions of coins coming ingame from TW? and how many more people there would be buying gold with coin if the economy and greed hadnt got so inflated to the point that gold went north of 500k?

there's some food for thought for those that QQ about the TW change. idc what all else you stack up against TW, THAT was the reason the economy is the way it is now. billions of coins coming ingame just for holding a piece of land. **** about extacy cards and dq items lmao.. TW is the biggest reason everything is the way it is now, and as the OP, a GM, said, they changed PWI TW, to TRY AND PREVENT what happened in chinese and malaysian, not to punish us because that happened there. (unlike what was said and what i figure about the DQ value decrease. we're legit moneymakers here, there they farm coin with bots so we got punished for their coinbotting. but TW was a preventative measure, not a punishment, and if you'd all **** about it long enough, i'm quite sure you'll all enjoy the deflated economy.

Adroit - Lost City · August 2010

xxxdsmer wrote: »

TW should stay the way it is now.

BILLIONS of coin coming ingame from TW map ALONE?

how could the fools not see that as the largest cause of inflation in the PWI economy? (aka all the ppl QQing about their tw pay)

let the economy deflate, and go farm or something to get ur stuff, enough with the sitting on your rears collecting billions of coins to make fake bids and wage a fake war. war costs, not pays. you want to play? (wage war) you got to pay. (go farm/grind/quest/merchant/whatever)

nobody does TW anymore.. because there is no reason to. Farming gear and whatnot is pointless if you never use it for anything.

Regenbogen - Lost City · August 2010

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

nobody does TW anymore.. because there is no reason to. Farming gear and whatnot is pointless if you never use it for anything.

you can use it to help me with illusion lord and emperror when i reach lv100...b:mischievous

Darksylph - Heavens Tear · August 2010

xxxdsmer wrote: »

TW should stay the way it is now.

BILLIONS of coin coming ingame from TW map ALONE?

how could the fools not see that as the largest cause of inflation in the PWI economy? (aka all the ppl QQing about their tw pay)

500 million or so per week. Compared to 10 BILLION or so per week from ToBL being converted into 10 mil bank notes (during Anni/Sunshine/Tiger packs, less by a factor of roughly 3/7ths, so say 4 BILLION per week during coral packs).

Yep, TW must be the largest source of inflation....

DQ (+ **** armor drops) easily puts comparably or more coin into the economy per week than TW pay.

TW pay existed for a full year with a stable and minimally inflating prices. (and minimal inflation is agreed by economists to be healthy, as compared to stagnancy). Then came Hammers and Chests of Coins, and prices shot from 120k to 200k. Then came the Packs and prices shot to 450k-500k+ during Tiger/Anni/Sunshine packs & 350k'ish during coral packs. So yeah, it must have been that TW pay....

Mraochan - Lost City · August 2010

Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »

TW pay existed for a full year with a stable and minimally inflating prices.

Then came Hammers and Chests of Coins, and prices shot from 120k to 200k.

Then came the Packs and prices shot to 450k-500k+ during Tiger/Anni/Sunshine packs & 350k'ish during coral packs. So yeah, it must have been that TW pay....

^THIS

For all the people that haven't been in the game long enough to experience these changes firsthand and see how obvious it is... well, feel free to keep expressing your opinions I guess, I give up xD

Edit: By the way, people have been pointing out the same problems with TW since closed beta. The reason why people are upset is because they changed it in the middle of the game, lol. If TW pay had originally been mirages, this would never have been an issue.

Also, to my understanding, the biggest factions on the CN servers take land and hold it. They also have huge botting problems. When the biggest faction on LC server took all the land, they disbanded shortly after, effectively resetting the map. What's wrong with that? We don't have a bot problem here.

Aside from that, TW pay has always been the same. So you're telling me that in the beginning, they were taking a loss on the servers due to TW pay. LOL Only more people have played over time. The cash shop has only grown over time. They've only made more and more profit over time. TW pay had very little to do with.

Indiri - Archosaur · August 2010

frankieraye wrote: »

The changes should make TW far more competitive.

Ok, so today on Arch the number 2 and number 3 factions ganked the number 1 faction (TW starting 3 min apart). This update has made TW so competitive that the previously hard TW (had been 3 hours previously) was now the number 1 faction (with 80 people TOTAL, not in each) rolling both number 2 and 3 in 13 minutes start to finish (first TW started at 8:00, last one ended at 8:13). Make sense? BOTH TW were 10 min or LESS.

This is not more competitive, it's sad.

Frankie, I know it was said we need to give this update time to see how it goes. It has now been 4 weeks? Right? So given the horrible results of TW so far, how long does this experiment need to go on before a final decision is made? Are we looking at another month, 6 months, never?

Please can you give us an idea how long the devs want to see how it goes? Or is this it already?

Scathatch - Harshlands · August 2010

theyre never gonna change it guys...

Tamias - Archosaur · August 2010

Indiri - Archosaur wrote: »

Ok, so today on Arch the number 2 and number 3 factions ganked the number 1 faction (TW starting 3 min apart). This update has made TW so competitive that the previously hard TW (had been 3 hours previously) was now the number 1 faction (with 80 people TOTAL, not in each) rolling both number 2 and 3 in 13 minutes start to finish (first TW started at 8:00, last one ended at 8:13). Make sense? BOTH TW were 10 min or LESS.

This is not more competitive, it's sad.

^ THIS

I manage the apoth and really...Im kind of screwed up and gave apoth out to one set of squads meant for the #2 Faction end and didnt have enough time for the #3 handout. Turned out I didnt really need to freak out because we ended up thrashing both of them in less than 15 minutes.

THAT is not competitive and that does not prove that there is more activeness for TW. This is pathetic.

I swear even if someone in our faction leaked them our landpots there would be NO incentives to continue. And for what? Mirages? Please..

And to the idiots who keep saying that TW pay was a major contributor to inflation-can you please re-examine your PW history before saying that? The only reason inflation even kicked in was because the CSers were willing to buy gold for higher since they were charging zen, getting the tokens and effortlessly popping coin out of their bums. And note that those 10 mil coin from every land was used to cover TW costs as well as paying members, etc. Like that really did something to the economy-what it really did, especially for me on Arch server, was find the incentive to buy gold form the market place- which circulates coin, which means its a healthy cycle on the gold market...

KoirBlade - Raging Tide · August 2010

LOL it's funny how PWI is trying to justify these new updates/changes by saying the new changes are to HELP US...PLEASE no one is stupid enough to believe that ****...everyone with half a brain can figure out that the reason was to force us to buy your stupid packs, which is the reason the economy is so high..u guys keep tryin to tell us how the economy works and how TW pay is partly to blame..no..PACKS are FULLY to blame for the bad economy...please don't think we're all idiots..just admit you guys did it so you guys could sell more packs/cash shop items...if this isn't true that y don't u guys have a sale on packs..50 silver for 1?...yah i doubt that will happen anytime soon..maybe it might for packs that contain crappy rewards...first u ruin tw n now tt...i hope PWI dies and u're all out of jobs b:pleased

Regenbogen - Lost City · August 2010

Indiri - Archosaur wrote: »

Ok, so today on Arch the number 2 and number 3 factions ganked the number 1 faction (TW starting 3 min apart). This update has made TW so competitive that the previously hard TW (had been 3 hours previously) was now the number 1 faction (with 80 people TOTAL, not in each) rolling both number 2 and 3 in 13 minutes start to finish (first TW started at 8:00, last one ended at 8:13). Make sense? BOTH TW were 10 min or LESS.

This is not more competitive, it's sad.

Frankie, I know it was said we need to give this update time to see how it goes. It has now been 4 weeks? Right? So given the horrible results of TW so far, how long does this experiment need to go on before a final decision is made? Are we looking at another month, 6 months, never?

Please can you give us an idea how long the devs want to see how it goes? Or is this it already?

you missed the point here...

either faction 1,2 or 3 now dont have the usual convenience of free coins...
makes it fairer for faction 4,5,6 which don't have territory...b:bye

truekossy · August 2010

Regenbogen - Lost City wrote: »

you missed the point here...

either faction 1,2 or 3 now dont have the usual convenience of free coins...
makes it fairer for faction 4,5,6 which don't have territory...b:bye

Except if faction 1 can roll 2 and 3 in under 20 mins each, then faction 4, 5, and 6 would also get rolled in under 10 mins with a single, uncharmed, nonstrategic, random squad from faction 1, 2, or 3.

Which means 4, 5, and 6, are even MORE screwed over now because first they have to gamble in their bidding and, if their bid fails, they don't get a refund or to try and make another. At least before they'd have a chance of doing a TW via refunds.

esperkiller · August 2010

Tw won't be changed back at all. Even though we know it was the gm's fault for putting up sale after sale after sale inflating prices and tw payout was not the cause. The gm is gonna argue that it is, but when you look at it its not true.

150k is what I get after I count the costs of a faction that would get 560mil split evenly between 200 people, if gold was 100k-120k and you needed 3 gold hp charms; white teas are 20k per;sutras are 20k per; after a 40k repair. And that's not counting mp charms, cata scrolls, towers, bidding, more repairs, sutras, and igs for barb pulling cata. All of this is assuming that the server has 2 factions who attack the big faction for about 1hour or more, + the other factions.

So, what can you really get with 150k per week?

Indiri - Archosaur · August 2010

Regenbogen - Lost City wrote: »

you missed the point here...

either faction 1,2 or 3 now dont have the usual convenience of free coins...
makes it fairer for faction 4,5,6 which don't have territory...b:bye

No, I got the point just fine. And I wish that what you were saying was the case. However, there are only a couple territories the 3 main factions don't own. So if 4, 5 and 6 still get thier butts handed to them it doesn't make it any more competitive for them either. Number 1 is now in a position to steamroll the whole map because there is no competition and, being a member of number 1, I don't think it's a whole lot of fun that way. We were hoping for competition last night. We wanted at least 1 of those fights in the gank to be a big fight and that didn't happen.

TW *used to be* competitive but it is not anymore. I want that back so TW is actually fun again.

Valrain - Archosaur · August 2010

I don't expect the PWI developers to understand a single word I am about to say, because they live in a culture of control.

The market is ripe for a new game. I've seen so many people leave my faction and the server in general over the ridiculous changes that have been made to this game. PWI is losing its loyal player base.

In a capitalist country like the United States, market demands spell opportunity. PWI has a nice interface and actually was a very good game before the devs got involved. A similar game with a good interface and story to it is all we need to make the jump away from this joke of a game.

You do realize that if we all leave, you can't sell packs on the Chinese servers, so it means every one of you will be out of a job.

I hope you enjoy standing in the unemployment line with everyone else.

Fistus - Harshlands · August 2010

Farming gear and whatnot is pointless if you never use it for anything.

I pity you if you think that TW is the only thing to do after 100. The game doesn’t even start till 100. Go learn about the game you are playing or else start playing something else.

500 million or so per week. Compared to 10 BILLION or so per week from ToBL being converted into 10 mil bank notes (during Anni/Sunshine/Tiger packs, less by a factor of roughly 3/7ths, so say 4 BILLION per week during coral packs).

Way to ignore everything I said and continue to spout the same nonsense. No matter how often you repeat the same tired, old garbage it will not stop being tired, old, or garbage.

DQ (+ **** armor drops) easily puts comparably or more coin into the economy per week than TW pay.

Yes and no. I will agree that it does generate more coin per week than TW pay did. Amongst some 10,000+ people. And since most of them are noobs they turn around and dump it all back to the game. So you are wrong to say that it adds more to the economy; it simply does not.

LOL it's funny how PWI is trying to justify these new updates/changes by saying the new changes are to HELP US...PLEASE no one is stupid enough to believe that ****

It’s sad that you can’t see it helps you. Luckily the devs are smarter than the players losing TW salary so it is not likely to be changed back.

Xarathox - Dreamweaver · August 2010

Edit: Apparently I'm not allowed to quote anymore.

MaiaElais - Lost City · August 2010

Great now the forums are broken too. WTB quote function.

I swear to god PWI is actually trying everything they possibly can to drive people out of the game.

Also Fistus you are an idiot.

And btw PWE a lot of people ive talked to were looking forward to trying Forsaken World. Now they will never touch another PWE game ever again. Good job guys you're doing a great job if you sick of this job. =]

Piliener - Lost City · August 2010

Tick tock PWE tick tock. If you thought the real world recession was bad wait until you see this crash. It's going to make the great depression look like an upside to a chart. Never forget you are a PUBLICLY traded company. So, how about letting your public know what's going on.

Also Fistus learn what you are talking about.

Adroit - Lost City · August 2010

lol @ Fistus.. *sigh* n00bs these days

Boogiepanda - Raging Tide · August 2010

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

lol @ Fistus.. *sigh* n00bs these days

hyperfcjajajaja

Why don't you don't on your main Fistus?

Crazydan - Heavens Tear · August 2010

Its Bludd all u have to do is click on the avatar

Zikai - Heavens Tear · August 2010

Just a thought here (might even have been mentioned earlier, but I'm not about to skim through 90+ pages of text), but how about limit the amount of territories a faction can own?

And if they own the maxed amount (say 5 for example), and nobody wants to fight them, have those old-fashioned mobs return pretending to want their land back...?

Or if someone does own their maxed amount (still pretending 5), they can still attack another faction, but it would turn back to neutral land - basically only kicking out the old faction.

This could prevent factions from making that 300million coins a week, but still making coins nonetheless.

Edit: Or just limit the pay. Like in HT where Enrage owns more than half, take their top 5 expensive territories and only send them the appropriate amount for owning those 5, but still allowed to own the rest for looks and governor benefits.

Eoria - Harshlands · August 2010

Lalala... Fistus was in the top TW guild over on MY. So I'd imagine if anyone knew what the eventual consequences of that TW money was, it'd probably be him.

Also, you can stop with the hyper FC nub thing. Sorry if we didn't want to zhen at Spiders and in Hell for weeks on end again just to get to 100 again (not me in regards to Hell specifically since no one really zhenned anymore by the time I got access to Hell). Hypering FC and BH for that matter is a much more cost-effective way of leveling.

On a different note, and I've said this before, I don't care about your salary. I never got a salary (with a couple exceptions; one time where the majority of us sent the money back) and everyone in my guild was perfectly happy doing TW without one. I also bought my own charms (and so did everyone else basically) and was in charge of putting up base towers many times and rarely ever got paid back for that, but I never expected to be. I loved both guilds I was in over in MY even if we weren't exactly the strongest guilds ever and would happily give up my money and time again to do TW with them. Maybe you all should take a step back and start realizing why you're in the guild you're in. Do you care about the guild enough to not worry about getting paid? I'd bet not.

Crazydan - Heavens Tear · August 2010

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

Lalala... Fistus was in the top TW guild over on MY. So I'd imagine if anyone knew what the eventual consequences of that TW money was, it'd probably be him.

Also, you can stop with the hyper FC nub thing. Sorry if we didn't want to zhen at Spiders and in Hell for weeks on end again just to get to 100 again (not me in regards to Hell specifically since no one really zhenned anymore by the time I got access to Hell). Hypering FC and BH for that matter is a much more cost-effective way of leveling.

On a different note, and I've said this before, I don't care about your salary. I never got a salary (with a couple exceptions; one time where the majority of us sent the money back) and everyone in my guild was perfectly happy doing TW without one. I also bought my own charms (and so did everyone else basically) and was in charge of putting up base towers many times and rarely ever got paid back for that, but I never expected to be. I loved both guilds I was in over in MY even if we weren't exactly the strongest guilds ever and would happily give up my money and time again to do TW with them. Maybe you all should take a step back and start realizing why you're in the guild you're in. Do you care about the guild enough to not worry about getting paid? I'd bet not.

If ppl r telling the truth huge streach here but if they r then just refund the bids cause thats the reason ppl arent bidding cause they arent sure they r gonna be able to fight.

Also for all the ppl saying TW pay wasnt that much anyway compared to blah and blah then shouldnt matter if its gone

Kinnacat - Lost City · August 2010

frankieraye wrote: »

The reason is this: The patch just came out, and some time really has to pass before any of us truly knows the effects of it.

Let me just assure you that we do NOT want to ruin the TW system.

What I'm asking is that we give this system some time before condemning it for good. There has been a lot of speculation, and the majority of you are very much against it, and that's been noted, believe me.

---

Update:

The changes should make TW far more competitive.

Update 2

A lot of things caused inflation, including grinding, questing, DQ item vendoring, decomposing gear into Mirage Celestones and vendoring them, 10M big notes, and weekly TW income payouts. TW income is not the only culprit, but it does add about 2.4 billion coins to the economy every month, which is substantial.

We do not insist that TW income is the sole cause of inflation, but we do believe that the TW change should at least help somewhat.

*cough cough*

1- Everyone already knows the effects of this patch. Some ppl are so fed up with it that they quit. Almost no faction has the motivation of going to TW. Destroyed most ppl's endgame dream.(TW)

2- LMAO! TOO LATE! XD

3- Most of us are against it... Can I see a post that ppl like the new changes?

4- How do those changes make TW more competitive? =o

5- Lol. You just blamed most of the money making tactics that non gold charging ppl use.

6- LOL! GOLD PRICES WENT UUUUUP!!!

<
~

Frankie, if you guys want to fix inflation, remove the stupid packs & chest of coins. Like one of my good friends mentioned, chest of coins made gold prices shoot up from 100k to 200k+ in one night. (need a perfect hammer(5 gold) to open the chest containing 1mill coins, do the math) Anni packs (first packs to come out) made gold shoot up from 200k to 400k+. Gold event went up to 800k (no joke, too bad i don't have a SS) with new packs. TW and all those other things you said were the causes of inflation are NOT the real causes.

b:beatenupBAN THE PACKS & CHEST OF COINS AND IT'LL HELP THE INFLATION!b:infuriated

Oh and why do the creators put new things in the game and don't fix the already exsisting bugs? Like the nix bug for example. (refuses to attack once it sees a hill. even a 1mm one.)

PS:b:embarrass I have a feeling this will be my last post...b:avoid

PPS: Sorry for the caps and red text, but I want this to stand out! D=

Boogiepanda - Raging Tide · August 2010

ToL causes inflation too. Before ToL, you had to buy G7 shards from the NPC by combining, resulting in around 1m taken out of the economy for every G7 shard made. Now, ToL stops that source of coin sink.

An Early GM Response to the TW Changes

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