An Early GM Response to the TW Changes
Comments
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ehh..0
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I see a lot of doom and gloom about the game being crippled or dead or dying. It would be interesting to see some actual usage statistics about how many new accounts are being made and how many unique ips log in each day. Personally, I'm not seeing my server die. I think the case for them dying is being massively overstated. People quit games all the time. The only thing that matters is when people stop joining.
What PWI should consider doing is a new online marketing blitz. Recently I have not seen their banners on other sites I visit - but I see lots of other F2P games. And none of them are nearly as good as PWI.
And, while I'm in the thread, I still think TW changes are a good thing. On Harshlands at least, the changes seem to be deflating the server. This is a good thing. I have watched prices fall on Gold, TT mats, Skill books, +10 Vit stones, and most other items.
I know you all rant and rave, but if you seriously think that it is healthly for the game for the same (extremely) small group of people to get 2.4 Billion in game coin each month, for free no less, then I think you are mentally deranged. I know for a fact that most AH gold price increases can be directly attributed to guild masters with too much coin and too little patience. On a different server I watched a guild single handedly raise the price of Gold by 200k over the course of about two or three months. They just bought everything in the AH; who cares how much it cost or what it was doing to the rest of the game or playerbase - the coin was free. And the price never recovered. Nor did the playerbase.
You all complain about the boxes, but I like them. Tokens are amazing. They make cheap, awesome mana pots so I don't have to waste money on charm. The make super awesome HP pots so I don't have to waste money on charm. They make trumpets, ulti sub, (newly) hyper, and all other kinds of great things. When token are plentiful those things are all cheap. I like cheap things. And, if I feel like wasting 400k or a buck I can readily gamble. On top of that it makes PW a lot of money, which means we all get to play for as free as we would like.
And the tokens of best luck are a red herring at best. Mainly because, quite frankly, turning them in for coin is stupid. And this is coming from someone whose done it more than once. They should be used for TT100 mats and things like that. Even when they are turned in for coin I'd bet the coin is often given right back to the game in the form of skill costs, pots, chip costs, upgrading guilds to lvl 3, and bidding.0 -
Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »Who's always on top of event contributions? Heavy Cash shoppers
tl; dr the rest.
But it's still practically giving out 17 gold isn't it? I don't know how you can argue against that.0 -
What has changed? Say If Perfect World International started this way, there would be NO complain what's so ever, you know why? BECAUSE they have nothing to complain about! Doesn't matter if you won't get paid with coins, my, my, what If the old ways were the new changes! I bet everyone would complain about it. The money giving the stronger players the advantage QQ, QQ, QQ. You lot just cry about anything ffs it's no big deal, enjoy TW! NOTHING HAS FU CKING CHANGED!0
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Stop the QQ or feedback they don't give a damn about what we want in this game, that's blatantly obvious. They wont change it so we have to live with it or leave like I have and find something else to play.
Players are leaving in droves and they don't care. The last one good thing the game had has gone....... b:bye0 -
Chovan - Harshlands wrote: »Stop the QQ or feedback they don't give a damn about what we want in this game, that's blatantly obvious. They wont change it so we have to live with it or leave like I have and find something else to play.
Players are leaving in droves and they don't care. The last one good thing the game had has gone....... b:bye
Why would they care? It's not like they not still giving PWI money! They left in their "droves" to Forsaken World, Battle of the Immortals, and any other crappie games PW have got. How sad PWb:sad0 -
Do some background research, see which PWE game makes them the most money, then come back and post.0
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Mraochan - Lost City wrote: »I was bored so I fixed all your grammar, punctuation, and spelling. b:laugh
My hero b:thanks
He actually had a pretty decent post hiding in that wall of unreadable text I just passed by. lolI post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »I think Indiri is talking about making an NPC that buys & sells gold for coin, but not through players. But that fails because gold is how PWE makes money. They's already said every gold used to buy items through the boutique counts as $1 real money and has to be accounted for. The free zen offers are funded through advertising dollars given to them, otherwise its all money people have charged. They will never introduce a way to buy boutique money for game coin that doesnt start its life as $1 real life currency. Everything they're doing is trying to get more people to charge money, the LAST thing they'd do is give people a reason to charge less money.
Sorry, I didn't see your response. I think I was already writing a response at that point to the others. Anyway, I have never heard them say they have to account for every zen but I'll assume you are correct there for the sake of argument. As to giving people a reason to charge less gold they said they are trying to lower the gold prices. Personally if 2 gold is worth almost a million (which it has been) I will charge zen. If it's worth 400-500k (for 2 gold) I won't. The game quickly becomes to expensive to me that way and I like my money more than this game.
Let me again say since no one seems to hear this part: I DO NOT LIKE THE IDEA MYSELF. I like the current gold trading and higher gold prices. It works for me. I was simply presenting this idea as an alternative to them taking away all ways of making in game coin since it seems the only one they are willing to leave is the stupid best luck tokens.0 -
What has changed? Say If Perfect World International started this way, there would be NO complain what's so ever, you know why? BECAUSE they have nothing to complain about! Doesn't matter if you won't get paid with coins, my, my, what If the old ways were the new changes! I bet everyone would complain about it. The money giving the stronger players the advantage QQ, QQ, QQ. You lot just cry about anything ffs it's no big deal, enjoy TW! NOTHING HAS FU CKING CHANGED!
What has changed? Ok, so let's ignore the coin for a moment.
TW between the two biggest factions on Arch used to last 2-3 hours. They were huge pk fests and a ton of fun. Now the last one lasted, what, 15 min? Maybe?
I have characters in two of the bigger factions and in both cases I have noticed that the number of people logging in is going straight down the toilet. I see about a 1/3 of the number I used to when I bother to log in myself now. Now, some of this will be because people are starting to make alts but I don't think that will explain 2/3 of the people.
After this stupid update large numbers of people dropped their stuff in arch because they were quitting the game. A lot of other people are refusing to charge another dollar but this game costs money (or a lot of time and who likes chores?) so they just don't log in.
This game HAS changed because of the update and not just in coin.0 -
Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »Frankie, the concerns that have been put forward have huge relevance. While we need to give the new system a chance, it's not just the TW system changes that people have a problem with.
TW has been around since... well, near enough since the beginning. While one faction didn't own an entire map, TW pay was still TW pay, and gold price never hit the 400k mark. What inflated the gold price was your sales. Please, Frankie, do not treat us like we are stupid. The constant sale of pack after pack has done far more damage then all TW pay combined, I imagine.
And now, at the time you change TW, you implement another sale to raise gold prices even further. If you're going to try and change a system that wasn't really broken in the first place, do it properly.
Stop with these sales.
Reset the map.
Sale after sale after sale after sale is what has caused these gold prices. All you have done is made TW your scapegoat. And you did a very bad job of that.
Right, and I will no longer spend money on this game until this problem is fixed.
FYI: PWI have offically killed TW on Dream Weaver now good job now Calamity is going to continue to get the rank 9 first and continue to hold the map, EQ have given up there is no chance now. Good job PWIb:bye Your not getting another dollar out of meb:victory[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
PLAYING PWI FOR FRIENDS (CHAT) ONLY, NO ZEN CHARGING, NO GAINING GEAR. MOVING TO GUILD WARS 2 UPON LAUNCH WITH FACTION.
Got Dot? Why Not? It PAYS! website.ws/tomujain0 -
omg 1 more week for a really Gm answer 1 weeek
with 1 day 
b:pleasedI'm ignorant
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Boogiepanda - Raging Tide wrote: »Event boutique.
I was poking though the pages and er...
You do realize they were very VERY careful with that right? None of the newer fash, 3.0+ speed aero gear the pricing is high enough that it would deter most people and the mounts are fixed. How?
Fash-Can not be traded/doesnt drop upon death
Mounts-can not be upgraded
Fly mounts-can not be widgeted
Charms-only go as high as silvers
They gave out "free" stuff with handicaps.
The only thing I find desirable is the "Pk fash" since it wont be dropping from me (but I don't even really PK anymore so blah XD) and the smilie set (I can finally get tigers yay)
Back on topic-
TW on Arch is starving and the gold market still being inflated is hurting me worse and worse. I can't even walk around charmed anymore (not like I'll be needing a charm anymore b:surrender ) The only way I was able to combat the inflation was with my TW pay as the pay did not put a dent in my wallet and I could freely buy gold here and there and still have enough for my gears. Blah.
Farming isnt as profitable anymore and Im starting to find that affording things is gonna be harder and harder-and thats just me affording bare essentials. (Teleports/pots)Tamias-
The Dealer at your service b:cute0 -
Indiri - Archosaur wrote: »Sorry, I didn't see your response. I think I was already writing a response at that point to the others. Anyway, I have never heard them say they have to account for every zen but I'll assume you are correct there for the sake of argument. As to giving people a reason to charge less gold they said they are trying to lower the gold prices. Personally if 2 gold is worth almost a million (which it has been) I will charge zen. If it's worth 400-500k (for 2 gold) I won't. The game quickly becomes to expensive to me that way and I like my money more than this game.
Let me again say since no one seems to hear this part: I DO NOT LIKE THE IDEA MYSELF. I like the current gold trading and higher gold prices. It works for me. I was simply presenting this idea as an alternative to them taking away all ways of making in game coin since it seems the only one they are willing to leave is the stupid best luck tokens.
What i put in red is pretty much the reason they have no real desire to lower gold prices drastically especially with the means you suggested. They will do it by lowering the supply of in game coin. If everything goes down in coin price, then its still equally as desireable to charge zen for lower profit of in game coin, because it still buys just as much. However they will NOT do it by anything that makes it less desireable to charge zen, this means they wont do anything to give people less coin profit from selling gold with still needing just as much to buy things.
Also the reason the are leaving the Best Luck Tokens > 10 mil bank note, is that it makes the packs themselves more valuable in the prizes they can provide. Hence this makes the cash shop & zen charging more desireable. Franky even said that they did indeed bring up the proposal of removing 10 mil bank notes from the Best Luck exchange. The devs response was it was something they were not willing to do at this time. So we were heard, and ignored. Its the obvious solution, but they will not dare do something to lower zen charging's appeal.0 -
Why the hell would they? You do understand this game is owned and run by a FOR PROFIT company, yes?they will not dare do something to lower zen charging's appeal.
I want a stable economy, but not if it means they can't afford to develop the two new classes or add other new content.
The "so-called" obvious answer is by no means the best one. Here's another reason bank notes are not as destructive as TW pay. They are more evenly distributed throughout the player base so as to cut down on one player's ability to accumulate vast sums of coin.0 -
Fistus - Harshlands wrote: »Why the hell would they? You do understand this game is owned and run by a FOR PROFIT company, yes?
I want a stable economy, but not if it means they can't afford to develop the two new classes or add other new content.
The "so-called" obvious answer is by no means the best one. Here's another reason bank notes are not as destructive as TW pay. They are more evenly distributed throughout the player base so as to cut down on one player's ability to accumulate vast sums of coin.
Obviously you havent heard the expression "penny wise & pound foolish". They're going for quick profits now but creating such an exodus or stoppage or zen charging that in the long run, they're causing themselves to earn less money overall. By alienating their player base, they're not only slowing future zen sales for PWI, but also causing many not to want to migrate to other PWE games as well & hurting sales for even yet uncomplete projects such as Forsaken World. So yes, the "so-called" obvious answer is obvious to anyone other then those concerned only about tomorrows sales, but not about next months or next years.
Edit: oh & i really have to laugh at your "more evenly distributed" assumption. Its always the same people popping them. TW pay gives a single individual 2-3 mil about (old system). 1 single ToBL gives a player 5 mil. So even if it was more evenly distributed, say 1 per person, they're still getting more for a single ToBL then their entire TW pay. Then combine that with the fact that its the wealthy and not any even distribution & its single individuals, few & far between, getting 100s of millions from them. Your assumption fails on so many levels.0 -
Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »1 single ToBL gives a player 5 mil. So even if it was more evenly distributed, say 1 per person, they're still getting more for a single ToBL then their entire TW pay. Then combine that with the fact that its the wealthy and not any even distribution & its single individuals, few & far between, getting 100s of millions from them. Your assumption fails on so many levels.
How is this any different from faction leaders getting millions of gold every week again? Oh...that's right. It isn't.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"subtraction has the butt of an angel" - Paulrogers
I
Subtraction.
/blatant sig copy is blatant
105/105/105 obtained! b:cute0 -
Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »How is this any different from faction leaders getting millions of gold every week again? Oh...that's right. It isn't.
500 mil in TW pay vs 10 billion in 10 mil bank notes per week. Hmm, i'd say TWENTY times as much is a difference.0 -
Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »500 mil in TW pay vs 10 billion in 10 mil bank notes per week. Hmm, i'd say TWENTY times as much is a difference.
Okay. Lets go with this train of thought then. Say the leader uses that 500mil to buy zen from AH and slowly over time artificially inflates the price of zen. Best Luck prices go up so it's more lucrative to simply sell than to trade for the note. Everything else goes up in price too. Frankly, I don't think any of you want to see zen hit 1mil or 2mil a pop, do you?
Also, who the hell even trades for the notes anyway?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"subtraction has the butt of an angel" - Paulrogers
I Subtraction.
/blatant sig copy is blatant
105/105/105 obtained! b:cute0 -
You really think 286 tokens of best luck are opened every day? I mean, holy God, that's like one every 5 min (roughly). I don't think so. Nice try though.10 billion in 10 mil bank notes per week
The game has been around for over 8 years. I'm betting they know how not to kill it.
Actually, I usually see lots of different people opening them. And, I see lots of people who aren't in the big guilds opening them. That is what I mean when I say more evenly distributed. And I'm not sure if it's naivety or guile that you would ignore the hundreds of millions the guild leaders are able to bank each week. After paying salary. Coin they can use to abuse the game. That is what's not condusive to the game's long-term health.Its always the same people popping them. TW pay gives a single individual 2-3 mil about (old system). 1 single ToBL gives a player 5 mil. So even if it was more evenly distributed, say 1 per person, they're still getting more for a single ToBL then their entire TW pay.0 -
Fistus - Harshlands wrote: »You really think 286 tokens of best luck are opened every day? I mean, holy God, that's like one every 5 min (roughly). I don't think so. Nice try though.
The game has been around for over 8 years. I'm betting they know how not to kill it.
Actually, I usually see lots of different people opening them. And, I see lots of people who aren't in the big guilds opening them. That is what I mean when I say more evenly distributed. And I'm not sure if it's naivety or guile that you would ignore the hundreds of millions the guild leaders are able to bank each week. After paying salary. Coin they can use to abuse the game. That is what's not condusive to the game's long-term health.
But, there are also several of those people getting 20-40mil per day opening those packs.
For example, there's one person on my server who, up until a month ago, was completely unknown. But as soon as he started opening packs, you see his name continuously an hour or two at a time. And half the items he gets, are those best luck tokens.Some people risk to employ me
Some people live to destroy me
Either way they die0 -
Fistus - Harshlands wrote: »The game has been around for over 8 years. I'm betting they know how not to kill it.
Actually PWI has been around for under 2 years . . . and they've made it pretty clear at this point that they will do whatever it takes to kill it. A complete lack of bug fixes, and a complete lack of end game content. . .[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks for the sig Ophida
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Xarathox - Dreamweaver wrote: »But, there are also several of those people getting 20-40mil per day opening those packs.
For example, there's one person on my server who, up until a month ago, was completely unknown. But as soon as he started opening packs, you see his name continuously an hour or two at a time. And half the items he gets, are those best luck tokens.
b:infuriatedb:irritated
I wonder who that could be.....[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thank you so much ForsakenX for the sig b:cute0 -
Well then. I guess it's a good thing I said "the game" and not PWI. You know, that thing they've been playing in China for the last 8 years. You know, where the devs are.Actually PWI has been around for under 2 years
This is why I hate responding. No one wants to hear from the Kool-Aid drinkers; even when they're right.0 -
Fistus - Harshlands wrote: »You really think 286 tokens of best luck are opened every day? I mean, holy God, that's like one every 5 min (roughly). I don't think so. Nice try though.
Its been tested & watched, and in a roughly 5 hour time period, it was watched that 300 mil (60 tokens) were gotten over 5 hours. In addition many other people approximate it at between 1-2 billion per day. Sorry to dissappoint you, but its true. This was during Tiger/Sunshine/Anni packs (the 1.72% return rate) packs. I didnt come up with the 10 billion per week from imagination, but rather imperical evidence, you can find an experiment in the 200 page buried thread regarding this same topic.Fistus - Harshlands wrote: »Well then. I guess it's a good thing I said "the game" and not PWI. You know, that thing they've been playing in China for the last 8 years. You know, where the devs are.
This is why I hate responding. No one wants to hear from the Kool-Aid drinkers; even when they're right.
And you know in china, they dont have packs? The Chinese government forbids sale of gambling packs in online gaming. So any observations about packs trying to look to the china version are moot. The pack game is brand new to them, and they arent ruining their own version with the packs, cause they cant sell them there.0 -
Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »And you know in china, they dont have packs? The Chinese government forbids sale of gambling packs in online gaming. So any observations about packs trying to look to the china version are moot. The pack game is brand new to them, and they arent ruining their own version with the packs, cause they cant sell them there.
And you know in China, they used to have packs? It's nothing new.
I don't get why you guys act like the CN and MY versions are a totally different ballgame from INT. It's simply not true. Everything that has happened in those versions can absolutely happen here. Taking out TW money prevents a good bit of the bad though.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"subtraction has the butt of an angel" - Paulrogers
I Subtraction.
/blatant sig copy is blatant
105/105/105 obtained! b:cute0 -
Yes. Indeed. I mean, after 5+ years at something (I'll concede that the P2P version never had them) I would agree it's still brand new. Oh... wait... no... that's a pretty stupid thing to say.The pack game is brand new to them
PW-Bejing was recently sued (within last 6 months) over the "box=gambling" thing. Thus, boxes just recently came out of their version. As soon as they can find a more agreeable judge or bribe the appropriate official I'm sure they will be back.
Well... I have a confession to make. I actually ran my own little experiment yesterday. And during my one min of timing; I saw a token get opened. So I think you're estimate is way, way low. More like 300m an hour and 3.6b a day! b:shockedIts been tested & watched, and in a roughly 5 hour time period, it was watched that 300 mil (60 tokens) were gotten over 5 hours.... imperical evidence
Or, we could take a step back and try using some common sense. Any small time period (and I hate to break it to you, but 5 hours is miniscule compared to the months we had boxes) is worthless. Give me a minimum of two or three day's worth of data from the middle of a box sale. Don't just take the highest % ever at the start of the biggest, craziest pack sale ever and then apply it equally to all other pack sales; especially when you admited that all the others have a lower drop rate. And, how the hell do you know they were all turned in for coin? I see lots of TT100 weapons on my server; I'll bet you any amount of money you like that the VAST majority of them came from tokens of best luck.
If you can't or don't know how to do proper sampling or seperate good experiements from bad, you should not say rediculous things like "imperical evidence".0 -
Your time is ... ruuuuning ouuut (for Gm's) :P Waa 1 week only for a truly GM answerb:pleasedI'm ignorant0
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Your time is ... ruuuuning ouuut (for Gm's) :P Waa 1 week only for a truly GM answer
Pretty much this^^
Almost everyone I know is quitting/on the verge of quitting this game depending on what the GM's do about these last 2/3 patches including myself. The majority of people I've spoken to have stopped spending money aswell.
This game is dead if things don't change soon or at all. IJS.~Carpe Diem~0 -
MaiaElais - Lost City wrote: »Pretty much this^^
Almost everyone I know is quitting/on the verge of quitting this game depending on what the GM's do about these last 2/3 patches including myself. The majority of people I've spoken to have stopped spending money aswell.
This game is dead if things don't change soon or at all. IJS.
Yep people are quitting in droves and PWI doesn't seem to care.
**** the economy, TW is dead if they can't see that then this and all PWE games are doomed.
The lack of any updates just makes us all feel ignored and that is pissing the players off just as much as these changes.0
This discussion has been closed.
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