The Chinese Servers got Server Merges. Why can't we?

TheDan - Sanctuary · August 2010

Conavar - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If the strongest factions player are bored with lack of TW competition then it's up to them to make some ... Break the Faction up into New ones, all leave and go join the other not so strong factions.

To many people are to keen to put being the best before having fun. If you are not having the latter the former is worthless.

I've been leading my faction for almost two years... It's not that simple. If I were to break my faction up right now... all the people that were in my previous faction would join my new faction because that's where all their friends are going.

And how is it fun to remake a new faction just to take land off your no show previous faction that has no members in it to defend?

Hitori_Hanso - Sanctuary · August 2010

Also, Dan, if you want some active TW, don't land lock the few factions that are fighting. Also, you could lose a few lands to low level members and let them have some fun. So you lose a few hundred mirages a week? You want fun, make some sacrifices.

TheDan - Sanctuary · August 2010

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

Ok but WHAT do we merge?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but we have three East Coast servers and four West coasts servers, two of them being PVP servers.

The PVP servers probably wouldn't merge with anyone, simply because one is west coast (Lost City) and the other is East coast (Harshlands), so they can't easily merge with each other. Merging them with a PVE server would demand that one server changes to the other server's rules, which simply won't happen. Sincerely doubt east servers would mix with west servers because that would demand that users adapt to new lag; East coast servers in particular are prone to having European players, and I doubt they'd be happy if their server was suddenly moved across a country, even further away from them.

If these assumptions I'm making are true and they won't mix PVE with PVP or West with East, this leaves VERY limited options. Raging Tides only merge buddy would be Heaven's Tear (or was it Dreamweaver that was east?) and you could only merge two of the West coast PVE servers, leaving the other one forever mergeless. I also doubt they would merge the east coast ones, because one server may be crowded and the other may be barren. Some people WANT a barren server and some people want a crowded one; merging the two would mean the only east coast PVE option is a severely crowded one. It'd also suck balls for them if they merged it, suddenly got a wave of new customers due to some promotion or update, and then found themselves needing a new East coast PvE server.

So yeah, I don't see ANY good merge opportunities, to be honest.

Just have 2 West Coast Servers and 2 East Coast Servers. 1 PvE and 1 PvP for each coast. The PvP servers would stay the same and just merge with whoever wanted to character transfer from PvE to PvP servers from the same coast. And likewise people from PvP servers would be able to transfer to PvE if they wanted to from the same coast.

That's the smoothest way to transition it in my eyes.... No one's forced to go to a PvP server or PvE server if they don't want to.. and all the character transfers would have to be from the same coast.

Rhyme - Harshlands · August 2010

*removed*

TheDan - Sanctuary · August 2010

Asheera - Raging Tide wrote: »

There is also the problem of world bosses, CoA competition, and other stuff... not just PvP.

You really think it's all about TW? 98% of the competitive people on new servers will dislike the merge to compete in all those events with older uber ones, and more than half of those will probably quit.

Imagine how crowded people will be for a world boss for example...

No I don't say PvP/TW is the only end-game content... but if GMs truly wanted more competition... then that's how it would be. More ks for WB.. more ks and competing about who gets to grind where.

No one said they couldn't increase the capacity for CoA or DT or etc. I believe it's like 200 for each? If server infrastructure was upgraded like they were in PW-CN they could just set the capacity to 300 or 400.

Longknife - Harshlands · August 2010

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

Just have 2 West Coast Servers and 2 East Coast Servers. 1 PvE and 1 PvP for each coast. The PvP servers would stay the same and just merge with whoever wanted to character transfer from PvE to PvP servers from the same coast. And likewise people from PvP servers would be able to transfer to PvE if they wanted to from the same coast.

That's the smoothest way to transition it in my eyes...

It's not that simple. You're overlooking barren server vs. crowded server.

Surely you can't believe that Raging Tides has just as much Nirvana gear as Lost City. Some servers simply have more people, which means more people farming, a bigger economy and more progress overall. Players of Raging Tides would be severely disappointed, because what's a top guild on their server is probably just a mediocre one on a more crowded server. Their players could get frustrated, discouraged and there'd be plenty of complaints flying PWI's way. Also, although I think Perfect World has very impressive economic stability for an MMO (no I'm not saying it's perfectly stable, but I am saying I can log on various servers and see very similar prices for things), the two economies wouldn't be the same. Perhaps on Raging Tides there's a severe shortage of Pages of Fate, whereas on Lost City they're a dime a dozen. People who invested in PoF would be infuriated. Things like this need to be considered.

And as I said before, some people prefer a barren server. If you were to simply take the most barren servers and merge them with more popular ones, a lot of the barren server members may not like it and quit. What you're suggesting, one PVE server per coast, would completely eliminate these barren servers as options for players and probably push the new servers towards their capacity limits. Then we'd need....a new server. :U
As things stand now, should Heaven's Tear or Dreamweaver start getting overcrowded, the GMs can promote Archosaur and Ragin Tides with exclusive 2x EXP events and such. When they make the changes you're suggesting, server population will simply grow indefinitely until they need a new server, defeating the purpose of the merge.

TheDan - Sanctuary · August 2010

Hitori_Hanso - Sanctuary wrote: »

Also, Dan, if you want some active TW, don't land lock the few factions that are fighting. Also, you could lose a few lands to low level members and let them have some fun. So you lose a few hundred mirages a week? You want fun, make some sacrifices.

*Facepalm* I could care less about winning and losing... the end result is the same. 5 minute crystal walk... It's not competitive or challenging to just give up your land or take land from a faction that doesn't show up.

Rhyme - Harshlands wrote: »

It would 100x harder to do a server merge if you let them choose to stay PvE or go PvP. I mean, it would still be easy, but the GMs/Devs are the equivalent to a Black guy on welfare. Why do work when you are getting paid to do nothing?

On PW-MY they merged a PvE server and a PvP server together into one unified server. It all comes down to who will cry and who will not.

Well of course the GMs would hammer out the specifics... They have the power to merge PvE with PvP server into one unified server if they wanted to. I'm just asking them to consider the concepts behind the idea of server merging.

Olba - Sanctuary · August 2010

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

I still have yet to see one valid argument against the concept of server merging besides lag. Last I checked games are for entertainment... when people aren't enjoying the game anymore they'll leave. I'm only suggesting this to revitalize the entertainment which will make PWE more money. They should live up to their name if they are advertising tbh. They wouldn't be called Perfect World Entertainment if they were boring would they?

Well, merging any of the older servers together won't happen, because they're already well-populated the well-established. Merging would pretty much only cause a short feud to see who's the top dog and then you'd have the same situation as you're in now, just with more people. A lot more people.

Merging Raging Tide and Archosaur together won't happen because they're for different coasts, so let's leave it at that.

Merging Raging Tide or Archosaur with one of the older servers. What that would cause is a massive uproar from majority of the people on the smaller server. The cash shoppers would rage about their lost top spots, whereas the newbies would rage about having been forced to join a well-established community with lots of high levels and great gear. The only ones that would be pleased are those who think their server is a ghost town.

Mystic-Night - Heavens Tear · August 2010

Been playing this game for 2 years now..it used to be really fun..now it's not anymore..and yea mostly the only reason I'm staying is because of my friends here.

Yea..TW on HT is fun right now, but for the past 2 months it had been rather boring for the most part..and I wouldn't be surprised if soon enough it went back to dull again.

I've been thinking what it would be like to PvP against people from other servers..hell even PvE would likely be fun as well.

Could you imagine TW with 4 factions that could field 80+ level 100's on one server? Oh my what jolly good fun.

It would be at least nice to have a temporary server merge where say..LC + HT + Sanc go to a new server, and the rest go to another, just to see how it would work..and after say a 1 month period, everyone goes back to the old servers, unless the testing period went very well?

At least try something..I would love to mix with other servers.

Mraochan - Lost City · August 2010

Dan that's very well written, and I agree with most of what you say. So far as a possible merge, I'm not sure. I can't see them combining PvE and PvP, and I can't see them combining east and west coast. Although I do like the idea, I don't see how they would implement it.

When this game was still in closed beta, people predicted a lot of the problems that we're facing now. I know because I like reading ancient threads. Basically it's made me wish I had been here since closed beta.

On LC server, CQ and RQ and others were already playing during closed beta. They got the jump on the server and of course, look who owned land first. There were others too, not trying to exclude them, this is just to demonstrate a point. Eventually CQ got all the land. Then disbanded so TW could continue for everyone else. But the guilds that formed out of CQ were still some of the most powerful, and eventually owned most of the land again. On the chinese Oracle server, WarLord took all the land and just held a monopoly on it for a long time.

The way I see it, the first people on a fresh server have the most fun. You get the PvE TWs first, then the low level PvP, etc. Imagine going to TW at lvl 41, lol. So you get a few lands, get the payment, makes the guild stronger, next week take another land etc... before you know it you've got 10 lands. The rewards start to get kinda exponential. I know there's more to it than this. And none of this really applies since they nerfed the pay and bidding system.

The TW system could definitely use some refining. One "problem" as some have said, used to be the massive amount of pay. Now there's not enough pay. Some have said cap the amount of land a guild can own. Right now, you're looking at no more than 3 attacks. Some think you should only be allowed to hold the land you can defend. If 10 different ppl want to attack your land at the same time, then they should be able to. There were many different options explored 2 years ago (at least in the forums) before open beta even started.

So I guess what I'm saying is, I'd like to start fresh on a new server. Or more accurately, **wish I had started fresh on a new server 2 years ago**

Aubree - Dreamweaver · August 2010

Rhyme - Harshlands wrote: »

*removed*

Whoa Im white but even I am offended... keep your trash talk somewhere else..

TheDan - Sanctuary · August 2010

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

It's not that simple. You're overlooking barren server vs. crowded server.

Surely you can't believe that Raging Tides has just as much Nirvana gear as Lost City. Some servers simply have more people, which means more people farming, a bigger economy and more progress overall. Players of Raging Tides would be severely disappointed, because what's a top guild on their server is probably just a mediocre one on a more crowded server. Their players could get frustrated, discouraged and there'd be plenty of complaints flying PWI's way. Also, although I think Perfect World has very impressive economic stability for an MMO (no I'm not saying it's perfectly stable, but I am saying I can log on various servers and see very similar prices for things), the two economies wouldn't be the same. Perhaps on Raging Tides there's a severe shortage of Pages of Fate, whereas on Lost City they're a dime a dozen. People who invested in PoF would be infuriated. Things like this need to be considered.

And as I said before, some people prefer a barren server. If you were to simply take the most barren servers and merge them with more popular ones, a lot of the barren server members may not like it and quit. What you're suggesting, one PVE server per coast, would completely eliminate these barren servers as options for players and probably push the new servers towards their capacity limits. Then we'd need....a new server. :U
As things stand now, should Heaven's Tear or Dreamweaver start getting overcrowded, the GMs can promote Archosaur and Ragin Tides with exclusive 2x EXP events and such. When they make the changes you're suggesting, server population will simply grow indefinitely until they need a new server, defeating the purpose of the merge.

Hey, the GMs stated it themselves. They wanted to increase competition. The whole idea of server merging is to get rid of barren servers. I don't see how a barren server could be competitive if there aren't even enough people in it to have mass TW. Hell if people are looking for barren servers they should reroll a private server.. I heard they're pretty empty.

I wasn't suggesting that a server merge needed to be implemented immediately, but if they would just improve their server infrastructure like on PW-CN to increase capacity... then what's the point of extra ghost servers?

In regards to frustrated people over economic instability... They already tossed any concern they had for that when they kept reintroducing packs and tweaked HH difficulty. If people can get whatever they want by cash shopping the economy was already screwed from the start. What do they have to lose from server merging? Some people quitting because they're not on an empty server anymore won't hurt them... They're already driving all the old school long term players out with the lack of competition/challenge. If anything they'd keep more people in the long run.

Directive - Sanctuary · August 2010

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

Wouldn't you like to TW once in a while against factions that don't start with N and end in No show? TW is way unbalanced in favor of the strongest faction now; competition would prevent prevailing factions from taking the whole TW map.

There is competition in TW you're just not going for it. Seems like Regicide only attacks Nefarious because it's almost a guaranteed win. If what you want is a real battle then attack a faction that will show up. Vindicate and Enelysion battled for a full 3 hours, is that not competitive? I'm just saying if you're bored of no shows spice things up a little. b:pleased

Olba - Sanctuary · August 2010

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

Hey, the GMs stated it themselves. They wanted to increase competition. The whole idea of server merging is to get rid of barren servers. I don't see how a barren server could be competitive if there aren't even enough people in it to have mass TW. Hell if people are looking for barren servers they should reroll a private server.. I heard they're pretty empty.

I wasn't suggesting that a server merge needed to be implemented immediately, but if they would just improve their server infrastructure like on PW-CN to increase capacity... then what's the point of extra ghost servers?

The thing is, there are at least two parts of the community that like the barren/new servers:
1. Cash shoppers/PKers looking to be the top dog.
2. Lower level people who level slowly.

The first group likes the new servers because there's no competition and they can freely be the top. If you merged servers, the highest cash shoppers would run into others of their kind and that would be frustrating for them.

The second group is obvious as well. On an older server, factions have higher standards and overall better gear. This means that it's harder to get into any faction, even more so if you want a competitive faction. This drives away a lot of people because they feel that they're being forced to put a lot of dedication to the game, which is supposed to be a get away from stuff like that.

And really, if you're so concerned about getting better TW, then you should do something about. Like, say, promote other TW factions, help them out, etc.

FatherTed - Dreamweaver · August 2010

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

Well of course the GMs would hammer out the specifics... They have the power to merge PvE with PvP server into one unified server if they wanted to. I'm just asking them to consider the concepts behind the idea of server merging.

No, they don't.

I'd wager strongly they don't even have the power to wipe a TW map.

They have to beg and plead to their bosses for permission to beg and plead to the Devs to get anything done.

MagicHamsta - Lost City · August 2010

FatherTed - Dreamweaver wrote: »

No, they don't.

I'd wager strongly they don't even have the power to wipe a TW map.

They have to beg and plead to their bosses for permission to beg and plead to the Devs to get anything done.

You be sure about that?
b:chuckle

FatherTed - Dreamweaver · August 2010

MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »

You be sure about that?
b:chuckle

Considering comments Frankie has made, yeah I'd put a dollar on it. They don't even have the ability to spawn items in PWI, if they can wipe a TW map I'll eat my hat.

Eoria - Harshlands · August 2010

Rhyme - Harshlands wrote: »

On PW-MY they merged a PvE server and a PvP server together into one unified server. It all comes down to who will cry and who will not.

No, they did not. Oracle and Delphi were both PVP servers and a lot more deserted at the time than the servers here seem to be.

MagicHamsta - Lost City · August 2010

FatherTed - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Considering comments Frankie has made, yeah I'd put a dollar on it. They don't even have the ability to spawn items in PWI, if they can wipe a TW map I'll eat my hat.

Me has a 2 rather simple ideas how the map could be wiped.
1st idea: Convince the local coders to wipe teh map through donuts + coffee or something.
b:avoid

2nd idea:
Just make a GM only faction (Me suppose one ban hamster could be enough though.)
Use GM gear to om nom nom the entire map in a few weeks.
Disband
???
Profit.
b:avoid

But no wipe for you~
(>.<)

sethh · August 2010

*removed*

Longknife - Harshlands · August 2010

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

Hey, the GMs stated it themselves. They wanted to increase competition. The whole idea of server merging is to get rid of barren servers. I don't see how a barren server could be competitive if there aren't even enough people in it to have mass TW. Hell if people are looking for barren servers they should reroll a private server.. I heard they're pretty empty.

I wasn't suggesting that a server merge needed to be implemented immediately, but if they would just improve their server infrastructure like on PW-CN to increase capacity... then what's the point of extra ghost servers?

In regards to frustrated people over economic instability... They already tossed any concern they had for that when they kept reintroducing packs and tweaked HH difficulty. If people can get whatever they want by cash shopping the economy was already screwed from the start. What do they have to lose from server merging? Some people quitting because they're not on an empty server anymore won't hurt them... They're already driving all the old school long term players out with the lack of competition/challenge. If anything they'd keep more people in the long run.

Well hey, I'm not against a server merge, but I'm simply saying that just because the Chinese did it doesn't mean we should too. I'm wondering what servers we would actually bother to merge, because personally I can't name a good server merge without mixing an east coast and a west coast server.

I mean, how many servers did the Chinese have? How many players were on the merged servers? Doubt the Chinese had the issue of East Coast and West Coast servers, either...

Mraochan - Lost City · August 2010

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

Well hey, I'm not against a server merge, but I'm simply saying that just because the Chinese did it doesn't mean we should too. I'm wondering what servers we would actually bother to merge, because personally I can't name a good server merge without mixing an east coast and a west coast server.

I mean, how many servers did the Chinese have? How many players were on the merged servers? Doubt the Chinese had the issue of East Coast and West Coast servers, either...

2 years or so ago, there were the Oracle and Delphi servers, I think those were the only 2 in China. Those were also both PvP as I understand it. From what I've heard, there were also 2 servers in the Philipines, at least one of which was PvE.

I remember reading posts from closed beta when they announced separate PvP/PvE servers here, some people were upset about that, lol. They wanted all servers to be PvP like Oracle/Delphi.

Eoria - Harshlands · August 2010

Mraochan - Lost City wrote: »

2 years or so ago, there were the Oracle and Delphi servers, I think those were the only 2 in China. Those were also both PvP as I understand it. From what I've heard, there were also 2 servers in the Philipines, at least one of which was PvE.

I remember reading posts from closed beta when they announced separate PvP/PvE servers here, some people were upset about that, lol. They wanted all servers to be PvP like Oracle/Delphi.

Malaysia =/= China. Many people that came to PWI back then came from the Malaysian English servers (Oracle and Delphi). The actual PW-CN has many more servers than we do and many end up having to be merged to have a sizable population it seems.

TheDan - Sanctuary · August 2010

Directive - Sanctuary wrote: »

There is competition in TW you're just not going for it. Seems like Regicide only attacks Nefarious because it's almost a guaranteed win. If what you want is a real battle then attack a faction that will show up. Vindicate and Enelysion battled for a full 3 hours, is that not competitive? I'm just saying if you're bored of no shows spice things up a little. b:pleased

Wait what? Re-read what you just said. We already have a guaranteed win from the 2nd strongest faction? And you think it'd be more competitive to 1v1 the 4th 5th strongest factions?

FatherTed - Dreamweaver wrote: »

No, they don't.

I'd wager strongly they don't even have the power to wipe a TW map.

They have to beg and plead to their bosses for permission to beg and plead to the Devs to get anything done.

They only need permission if they're asking for modifications in patches and last I checked resetting a TW map has nothing to do with the client version.

FatherTed - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Considering comments Frankie has made, yeah I'd put a dollar on it. They don't even have the ability to spawn items in PWI, if they can wipe a TW map I'll eat my hat.

They actually do have to power to spawn items in game. There have been many cases where people accidentally NPCed their armor/weapon/TT mats and they were able to return them. Not immediately of course, but after maintenance.

Olba - Sanctuary wrote: »

The thing is, there are at least two parts of the community that like the barren/new servers:
1. Cash shoppers/PKers looking to be the top dog.
2. Lower level people who level slowly.

The first group likes the new servers because there's no competition and they can freely be the top. If you merged servers, the highest cash shoppers would run into others of their kind and that would be frustrating for them.

The second group is obvious as well. On an older server, factions have higher standards and overall better gear. This means that it's harder to get into any faction, even more so if you want a competitive faction. This drives away a lot of people because they feel that they're being forced to put a lot of dedication to the game, which is supposed to be a get away from stuff like that.

And really, if you're so concerned about getting better TW, then you should do something about. Like, say, promote other TW factions, help them out, etc.

Hey that's fine by me if people like servers with no competition. That's not going to make PWI more money though. Only the most competitive cash shoppers etc are gonna yield in the $$$ numbers. You're not going to get nearly as money off casual non-hard core players that log in once a week to do dailies than someone who competitively charges to better their gear.

Higher standards = more reasons to cash shop.

In regards for getting better TW.. we already help other TW factions by offering to make apothecary pots for free @ the land officers. Still no good TW yet though.

FatherTed - Dreamweaver · August 2010

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

Not immediately of course, but after maintenance.

Exactly - that's not a GM spawning an item. That's an item being added that a GM could give to someone - totally different. The GMs in this game cannot spawn items - if they can't even do that do you think they can reset a TW map?

Mraochan - Lost City · August 2010

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

Malaysia =/= China. Many people that came to PWI back then came from the Malaysian English servers (Oracle and Delphi). The actual PW-CN has many more servers than we do and many end up having to be merged to have a sizable population it seems.

I see, thanks for the correction.

Mournbringer - Sanctuary · August 2010

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

Just have 2 West Coast Servers and 2 East Coast Servers. 1 PvE and 1 PvP for each coast. The PvP servers would stay the same and just merge with whoever wanted to character transfer from PvE to PvP servers from the same coast. And likewise people from PvP servers would be able to transfer to PvE if they wanted to from the same coast.

That's the smoothest way to transition it in my eyes.... No one's forced to go to a PvP server or PvE server if they don't want to.. and all the character transfers would have to be from the same coast.

I for one would welcome this. I have been playing since Christmas 2008 and would LOVE to switch to a PVP server, might actually keep me interested in this game. As it stands, PWI is slowly killing off all the things that make this game fun (ie:TW) if it dies I am NOT going to Forsaken World as my main game, I have already seen the business model of PWI and it fails, FW will be in the same boat in a year or two. with all the awesome P2P games coming out over the next year it will actually be cheaper for me to play those than another fail PWEgame that only has an interest in sucking money from players.

Knownase - Heavens Tear · August 2010

Transfering servers would be great, but I know that is not very likely....err possible here.

Not sure if it has been mention, but what about the problem of names? Since 2 ppl from different servers can have the same name.

TheDan - Sanctuary · August 2010

FatherTed - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Exactly - that's not a GM spawning an item. That's an item being added that a GM could give to someone - totally different. The GMs in this game cannot spawn items - if they can't even do that do you think they can reset a TW map?

Err what do you mean? GMs summoned the Bounty Hunter NPC without a maintenance when he was missing... I wouldn't be so sure they can't spawn items... They can port into my instances, character transfer, be level 150 or level 1 whenever they want... spawning an item doesn't seem too far out of the question. Of course they aren't supposed to abuse it. They can check logs of everything everyone has ever done... They'd get fired for spawning random things wouldn't they?

Not that the GM's capabilities are relevant to the concept of server merging or anything, but they could always ask their bosses to do it if they weren't able to themselves after some sort of consensus on it.

Knownase - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Transfering servers would be great, but I know that is not very likely....err possible here.

Not sure if it has been mention, but what about the problem of names? Since 2 ppl from different servers can have the same name.

I believe the Chinese versions just added a little tag at the end... Sure the names are from different databases, but that doesn't mean they can't be merged... All it would take is to add for example KnownaseHT at the end of each person from HT. If there was an existing Knownase on Sanc it could just be KnownaseSanc or something simple like that.

Michael_Dark - Lost City · August 2010

FatherTed - Dreamweaver wrote: »

They don't even have the ability to spawn items in PWI, if they can wipe a TW map I'll eat my hat.

Yes, they do have the ability to spawn items.

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

They actually do have to power to spawn items in game. There have been many cases where people accidentally NPCed their armor/weapon/TT mats and they were able to return them. Not immediately of course, but after maintenance.

It stands to reason that they send out items during maintenance much as the same reason an accounting department won't send you payroll whenever you ask and you must wait till they decide to. For accountability and consistency.

It's much easier to sit there and do them all at one time, note in the records that it was done as you mail them out, rather than on a case-by-case basis.

The Chinese Servers got Server Merges. Why can't we?

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