The Chinese Servers got Server Merges. Why can't we?

TheDan - Sanctuary

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

Well hey, I'm not against a server merge, but I'm simply saying that just because the Chinese did it doesn't mean we should too. I'm wondering what servers we would actually bother to merge, because personally I can't name a good server merge without mixing an east coast and a west coast server.

I mean, how many servers did the Chinese have? How many players were on the merged servers? Doubt the Chinese had the issue of East Coast and West Coast servers, either...

I'm not saying we have to server merge either, but shouldn't we at least consider it as a possible option as a way of acknowledging our situation?

From the looks of it, PW-CN had 6 servers and now have 3. Here is the link to my sources. PWI has 7 servers.

Adroit - Lost City

100% support this. New competition might make things more fun xD

MANray_ - Sanctuary

Ok, seriously, you cannot base a large part of your argument for server merges on freaking TW. It was always an elitist activity. At the height of the whole thing (before the maps were overwhelmed by a single color) what percentage of a server's population do you think was actually involved? How many of those actually got to TW regularly? I realize TW is a very important part of the game for many people, but it is conceited to believe its demise impacts a majority of players. It doesn't. TW's importance is largely blown out of proportion because it is an aspiration for many, but the reality is most players will not actually get to experience it. You're asking for server merges to benefit how many? Freaking 5% of the playerbase?

As for the declining population argument, just exactly how do you know? Yes, questing spots do seem emptier but with the majority of players leveling mostly through BH this is hardly evidence of anything. Does Archo seem less empty than it used to be? World Chat any less busy? Is the supply of gold entering the servers diminished? And are you accounting for seasonal variations? Yes, finding a Barb or Cleric may seem overly difficult but it was actually never easy, and TB made things worse as the game was already imbalanced from the start when it comes to classes. Now, with most people doing primarily instances all day, demand for these classes has soared. And i want to make this clear, i'm not saying that the server's populations are not in fact diminished, but you can't simply throw that around as established fact. High levels are quitting the game? It happens, especially when you've been at that range for half a year with almost no content ,and no chance of competing with the top tier elite of heavy CSers and merchants dominating the field...

The bottomline is wether servers remain profitable for the company and given the numbers of tokens you can find for sale in Westie i say they're raking in the cash. Even if this is just the heavy spenders the argument remains there is no incentive for PWI to change the current status quo, especially with what must be the most profitable quarter of the year coming up.

And server merges do indicate a dying game, i take it as bad news for this game's future that China has done it twice (not to nitpick but can we have the source on that?) as it is precisely that market that drives further development. Most people will not simply hapily accept merges, many will quit through the first three months and the inflow of new players will be severely curtailed. And you need the new players since many people will be leaving the game anyway for whatever reasons. MMOs only merge servers when they absolutely have no other options. I would like you to imagine the state of the merged servers 6 months down the line... And here is another bit of sad news, PvP servers are always the first to go, this game got started with just 1 West Coast PvP server and it is likely it will return to just that since Euros have never been a priority and the company is based in California... Go take a look at the history of other MMOs, PvP is considered a niche and is not unusual for many games to close as many, if not more, PvP servers as they do PvE even with original ratios 1 PvP to 3-4 PvE. This is all wishful thinking...

Now, convince me that the game is dying and i'll quit, not just hope server merges will buy us some more time. Worthy goals are simply too long term to accomplish without merchanting or heavy Cash Shopping and i won't waste my time on a game that will just die on me when i'm halfway trough. I don't know, maybe it will even be a good idea to rejoin my old footie team while i wait for the MMO i'll be joining next year to release... Server merges would mean i would probably stay long enough to enjoy the transition show and be gone after the first month.

Pressa - Heavens Tear

Oi a smart report from manray thank you for your insight very well written.


As conavar said quite awhile ago in this thread your TW experience is your fault not the server you need to break apart and not be so big to get better TWs. Throw a few bones to some guilds I mean all your getting is mirages anymore right? Therefore you are not losing anything like you would before there is all the more reason to let some little guys get land land = growth even if they don't get coins it makes them seem stronger then they are really. If you really don't want to lose any land whatsoever and don't want to break up or take any actions to let other guilds grow. Grass can't grow into a forest if you keep mowing your lawn.


I would say farming spots such as herbs and high priority monsters are very much populated at least on HT so there is no chance of anything being merged here.


Fun takes cultivation you don't expect your tomatoes to give you more fruit the day after you pick them do you? To get your fun you have to make some sacrifices and do some work and then it will pay off in the long run.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Ok, seriously, you cannot base a large part of your argument for server merges on freaking TW. It was always an elitist activity.

I stopped reading there.

TW is one of the most important and special aspects of the game. It's for the people who have played the game yet somehow managed to stick around after leveling, farming their gear, etc... it's the pinnacle of playing this damn game.

Just because you choose to level at the speed of a racing turtle or die so often you can't level doesn't mean you should be throwing around BS like that. Sorry, you're sounding a bit like Yulk. After that first sentence, whatever you have to say is pretty much meaningless.

Yeah, I played the game, have done every freaking instance till I could vomit, now you want to call me elitist because that's the most fun aspect left and that PWI demolished it?

*removed*

Shevanel - Sanctuary

Im quite honestly very torn with this idea.

While I would absolutely have some fun with new faces in PK, new names taking land, a busier amount of people that aren't just catshop alts, I don't like the idea that it would have to be either PvP or PvE strictly.

PvP would be great if there wasn't the whole Red name = should be punished. PvP is about pitting your skills against another player of equal gear and maybe oneshotting a few nubs here and there for fun. When the servers began, it might have been about getting gear drops that someone red named dropped. I think this is ridiculous now, but back then when lower level pk was more occurant and the gear was at a decent difficulty to obtain it wouldn't have had such an impact on some people. Sure people can bind, but not a whole lot of people do that. Some need resalability, some people can't afford GAs (Not mentioning safety lock.. pain in the ****)

If there were no penalties to PvP, Im sure we'd see more people doing it. I can't afford to spend ungodly amounts of coin, in or out of game, on GAs, when im squishy.

The Open world PK rules could be changed so grieving can not be commonplace to members of the PvE server who are merged with a PvP (In this little scenario). Something like a level cap that only goes one way.

A level 30 can attack a level 100, but the level 100 cannot attack the level 30 until the 30 initiates. Of course this should have level brackets
a level 100 can attack 90+ and can retaliate to any level below.
90 can attack 80+ and retaliate to any level below etc.

This stops ganks of 100 lvl 50s vs 1 lvl 100, and also stops people killing nubs for the hell of it..

Wow, Im tangenting, and don't really know what my whole point was.

Im yes for server merg, Im also no due to the fact strictly PvE will **** PvPers off, and PvP will ensure many many many pve'ers leave.

Pressa - Heavens Tear

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

I stopped reading there.

TW is one of the most important and special aspects of the game. It's for the people who have played the game yet somehow managed to stick around after leveling, farming their gear, etc... it's the pinnacle of playing this damn game.

Just because you choose to level at the speed of a racing turtle or die so often you can't level doesn't mean you should be throwing around BS like that. Sorry, you're sounding a bit like Yulk. After that first sentence, whatever you have to say is pretty much meaningless.

Yeah, I played the game, have done every freaking instance till I could vomit, now you want to call me elitist because that's the most fun aspect left and that PWI demolished it?

Go **** yourself.

I dunno I can't say they screwed it I just don't agree that they did. What I say they did was open up more places to build factions sure they don't give cash anymore which kinda eliminates the point of wanting the land in the first place but if you are after the fun of TW this is exactly what you were looking for.

Mraochan - Lost City

TW may well be an elitist activity on a PvE server, I could see it being viewed that way.

I remember reading in the closed beta threads people complaining about the fact that there were going to be PvE servers, lol.

If you're lucky enough to be one of the first on the server, you can go to TW at a relatively low level... that would be cool ^^

Forget the merge,

server:\format

Everyone rerolls b:victory

$exyAlexis - Dreamweaver

Thumbs up for Server merges ! b:thanks

Shevanel - Sanctuary

Server Format and hundreds of people have just had thousands of dollars ripped from them.

It's like buying a car outright. Sure one day, down the track you won't want the car, and you'll either sell it or just destroy it (depending it's age and state of dis/repair).

But up until that point, if the company you bought the car from decides they want to take it for no good reason but that other peopla are complaining that it's too fast for them to keep up with, you'd be pretty forking pissed off, right?

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Pressa - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I dunno I can't say they screwed it I just don't agree that they did. What I say they did was open up more places to build factions sure they don't give cash anymore which kinda eliminates the point of wanting the land in the first place but if you are after the fun of TW this is exactly what you were looking for.

Faction activity all across the server kinda just died. Attendance for even CoA by just about everyone was down. Nobody TWs anymore. All the fights, even with some of the smaller guilds used to last hours... now nobody really bids, nobody really cares. There's no motivation to buy or farm PK pots, hp/mp charms, defense charms, etc...

TW is still happening, it's not ferocious or motivational.

It's like telling the NFL there will be no more SuperBowl and instead of endorsements or publicity, they each get a bag of popcorn if they win. There is no suitable reward for working hard anymore. You play a game for fun and to relax, but there's no reason for competition. It's like the Indy 500 on solar powered geo metros.

If you read most of the TW Discussion thread, no less than a dozen smaller TW guild leaders came on to post, many who don't really post at all. They basically said TW is over for them.

The rest of us still TW because that's just what we do, however the life has really been sucked out of it.

It would not be much different if they suddenly removed hyper Frost and BHs. People would just get discouraged and stop. While you may not say they're the same thing, I would agree, however they're instrumental to keeping people playing. You'd think the coin reward itself was a huge deal, it really wasn't, however it helped pay for those who actually would TW that don't have half the map already. Most of the other possible contenders would rather not have to ask their faction mates for donations every week only to possibly lose it and the chance to TW because they got outbid. Even if they do win a land, guess what, they still have to beg their factionmates for donations to keep the cycle going.

Imagine you're a faction leader and each week you need to ask everyone to donate 50-100k. Or imagine you're in a faction where they have to ask that of you each week. It just doesn't work, people don't like it. It's discouraging to everyone.

haybails

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

As many of you already know, the Chinese servers have recently gotten a 2nd server merge, a TW map wipe with 1.5x compensation of the original pay for all the lands, and a server upgrade to hold more players with less lag. The GMs/Devs in China have readily acknowledged and addressed the problems with the vanishing competition in TW.

A server merge doesn't address the lack of TW activity at all. After the first month of territory gains (woohoo! Successful implementation, the game is alive!) it will all peter out again to the same as it is now. The (lack of) rewards will be the same and the costs to the player will therefore still be exorbitant.

*removed*

The reward for owning land going from being too generous to far too negative hasn't done any favours, nor have the multiple BH, hypers, packs (and big note) or the crazy adjustments to the TT bosses. These have all contributed to the severe decline of the game, not the number of servers.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

haybails wrote: »

A server merge doesn't address the lack of TW activity at all. After the first month of territory gains (woohoo! Successful implementation, the game is alive!) it will all peter out again to the same as it is now.

You're completely ignoring the fact that TW was alive and well for much of PWI for the last what, nearly two years, until the changes occurred.

Now TW is basically dead. So, that kinda puts your whole 'after the first month' argument to rest. PWI has been around a lot longer than a month. How come most of the servers have said, 'oh, btw, tw is pretty much dead' all at the same time. It doesn't take a degree in astrophysics to figure that one out.

TheDan - Sanctuary

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Ok, seriously, you cannot base a large part of your argument for server merges on freaking TW. It was always an elitist activity. At the height of the whole thing (before the maps were overwhelmed by a single color) what percentage of a server's population do you think was actually involved? How many of those actually got to TW regularly? I realize TW is a very important part of the game for many people, but it is conceited to believe its demise impacts a majority of players. It doesn't. TW's importance is largely blown out of proportion because it is an aspiration for many, but the reality is most players will not actually get to experience it. You're asking for server merges to benefit how many? Freaking 5% of the playerbase?

As for the declining population argument, just exactly how do you know? Yes, questing spots do seem emptier but with the majority of players leveling mostly through BH this is hardly evidence of anything. Does Archo seem less empty than it used to be? World Chat any less busy? Is the supply of gold entering the servers diminished? And are you accounting for seasonal variations? Yes, finding a Barb or Cleric may seem overly difficult but it was actually never easy, and TB made things worse as the game was already imbalanced from the start when it comes to classes. Now, with most people doing primarily instances all day, demand for these classes has soared. And i want to make this clear, i'm not saying that the server's populations are not in fact diminished, but you can't simply throw that around as established fact. High levels are quitting the game? It happens, especially when you've been at that range for half a year with almost no content ,and no chance of competing with the top tier elite of heavy CSers and merchants dominating the field...

The bottomline is wether servers remain profitable for the company and given the numbers of tokens you can find for sale in Westie i say they're raking in the cash. Even if this is just the heavy spenders the argument remains there is no incentive for PWI to change the current status quo, especially with what must be the most profitable quarter of the year coming up.

And server merges do indicate a dying game, i take it as bad news for this game's future that China has done it twice (not to nitpick but can we have the source on that?) as it is precisely that market that drives further development. Most people will not simply hapily accept merges, many will quit through the first three months and the inflow of new players will be severely curtailed. And you need the new players since many people will be leaving the game anyway for whatever reasons. MMOs only merge servers when they absolutely have no other options. I would like you to imagine the state of the merged servers 6 months down the line... And here is another bit of sad news, PvP servers are always the first to go, this game got started with just 1 West Coast PvP server and it is likely it will return to just that since Euros have never been a priority and the company is based in California... Go take a look at the history of other MMOs, PvP is considered a niche and is not unusual for many games to close as many, if not more, PvP servers as they do PvE even with original ratios 1 PvP to 3-4 PvE. This is all wishful thinking...

Now, convince me that the game is dying and i'll quit, not just hope server merges will buy us some more time. Worthy goals are simply too long term to accomplish without merchanting or heavy Cash Shopping and i won't waste my time on a game that will just die on me when i'm halfway trough. I don't know, maybe it will even be a good idea to rejoin my old footie team while i wait for the MMO i'll be joining next year to release... Server merges would mean i would probably stay long enough to enjoy the transition show and be gone after the first month.

You're out of your mind if you think TW isn't one of the most important aspects of end-game PWI has to offer. The most active players in any MMO are gonna be looking for whatever end-game content it has to offer. If there wasn't any end-game content... what would be the point of leveling, gearing up and charging zen? So you hit level 100 and quit? Competitive game play is what keeps most people entertained and continue playing. PW is very limited on end-game content so TW is one of the hugest things that kept people playing.

As for declining populations... I don't claim to exactly know. This is purely based off my observations as an observant that is easily online more than 60+ hours a week. All the long term players are being driven to quit and they're being replaced with these new generation players that don't know what they're doing. Perhaps the total population hasn't changed, but this new population has nothing to look forward to as end-game content with TW dead. Let's see... Tournament holds 128 people. Last year there would be so many people there wouldn't be enough chests for everyone to participate. Now not even half of those chests are taken. Severe decrease of anyone at grinding spots. About 3 months ago there used to be waiting lines at grinding spots in OVS because it was packed with people grinding... now it's always empty. Another example is faction activity. About 3 months ago there was easily 80-100 people online daily. Now we have 30-40.. and we're the biggest TW faction of 190 members. High levels becoming inactive much more rapidly than before. 2/3rds of our old TW roster 3 months ago is now inactive. My observations seem to conclude that high levels are quitting at a faster than ever before.

http://w2i.wanmei.com/news/gamenews/20100817/54352.shtml link for PW-CN's recent server merges. 6 servers becoming 3. I'd say by the looks of it... if PW-CN is indicating that it's a dying game... PWI will follow suit if they decide to shut down. PW-CN's hard core gaming style's declining population indicates that there is an overall lack of competition there too.

I'm not arguing that there isn't incentive.. it doesn't even seem like problems are being acknowledged. A lot of people are just riding this game out until another MMO comes out... it didn't have to be this way though. PW-CN seems to have acknowledged this and have already taken action in the form of server merging to buy more time.

SilentGodai - Lost City

I love the idea , it could work in pwi but it could also fail. In my last mmo i played, all the prices were all peachy and nice. After the server merge price went up really high. But than again it was something called linked server battle. Where many server people can come into this place and trade with different server people. But if its complete merge where its just two server becoming one. DO IT!! I WANT PVP!!! I hate killing white names the red names are hard as hell

Boogiepanda - Raging Tide

I mean, the older servers probably don't need much of a merge, I heard on servers like HT it's near impossible to walk through West Archo.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

Tournament holds 128 people. Last year there would be so many people there wouldn't be enough chests for everyone to participate. Now not even half of those chests are taken.

I actually forgot to mention that.

You get about 3m exp from completing Tournament. You'd think that many people would participate.

The last Tourney, there were at least 20 undug chests. You move on, you get warsoul tags and EXP.

I ported into the 2nd room. I was there with one other person. Didn't even need to fight, there were 4 chests that nobody could dig...

I've never seen it this sparse, ever.

Server population on LC has died since the TW change. Many of the players that had been here for a long time no longer have a reason to play.

And some might say, who cares... well why are you even playing if you don't care. What's the point of reaching 100 and having nobody else to play with?

Boogiepanda - Raging Tide wrote: »

I mean, the older servers probably don't need much of a merge, I heard on servers like HT it's near impossible to walk through West Archo.

/facepalm

The only thing you can judge by going through west arch is how many merchant alts are set up... guess what, those are mostly hardcore players with a catshop running 24/7. Look and see how many of them are actual mains. Not many.

haybails

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

You're completely ignoring the fact that TW was alive and well for much of PWI for the last what, nearly two years, until the changes occurred.

Now TW is basically dead. So, that kinda puts your whole 'after the first month' argument to rest. PWI has been around a lot longer than a month. How come most of the servers have said, 'oh, btw, tw is pretty much dead' all at the same time. It doesn't take a degree in astrophysics to figure that one out.

The mirage reward and loss of funds on being outbid have put paid to the TW, it is clear that my point is in reference to the current TW, not as was. Before the TW update, it was active, I didn't suggest otherwise. The reward, which was deemed excessive made it worthwhile but at the same time hard to break into for many. Now TW is detrimental to all and a server merge would not solve this. That was my point.

TheDan - Sanctuary

Pressa - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Oi a smart report from manray thank you for your insight very well written.


As conavar said quite awhile ago in this thread your TW experience is your fault not the server you need to break apart and not be so big to get better TWs. Throw a few bones to some guilds I mean all your getting is mirages anymore right? Therefore you are not losing anything like you would before there is all the more reason to let some little guys get land land = growth even if they don't get coins it makes them seem stronger then they are really. If you really don't want to lose any land whatsoever and don't want to break up or take any actions to let other guilds grow. Grass can't grow into a forest if you keep mowing your lawn.


I would say farming spots such as herbs and high priority monsters are very much populated at least on HT so there is no chance of anything being merged here.


Fun takes cultivation you don't expect your tomatoes to give you more fruit the day after you pick them do you? To get your fun you have to make some sacrifices and do some work and then it will pay off in the long run.

What the hell is this? You want to blame strong factions for being too strong? Rich people for being rich? How is it my faction's fault we're taking free land because no one shows up to TW? The overall lack of TW activity for all factions makes it hard for anyone to compete against us.

And again please tell me what's the point of putting all the work into a faction to get stronger and then suddenly disband it because you start winning? What kind of logic is this? All your hard work, accomplishments and your incentive to improve your gear/skills in gone if everyone wasn't allowed to compete at their A game. All you're doing is proving my point in the lack of competition. We've run out of PVP on the server so we have to start PVPing against people in same faction.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

haybails wrote: »

The mirage reward and loss of funds on being outbid have put paid to the TW, it is clear that my point is in reference to the current TW, not as was. Before the TW update, it was active, I didn't suggest otherwise. The reward, which was deemed excessive made it worthwhile but at the same time hard to break into for many. Now TW is detrimental to all and a server merge would not solve this. That was my point.

OK, I guess I misread what you had said.

A merge would do one thing... it would put more people on a server who actually still wan to TW, even with the crappy rewards.

haybails

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

OK, I guess I misread what you had said.

LOL! No probs there. My posting obviously wasn't all that clear... if one can misread then many others will too.

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

A merge would do one thing... it would put more people on a server who actually still wan to TW, even with the crappy rewards.

This I completely agree with, I could not possibly argue against it but, there would still be one question, which we can't truly answer! For how long would they keep up TW at such expense?

I'd love to join in TW every so often but by Jove, I'm broke enough as it is! (Not yet found a niche for being a successful merchant etc.) b:surrender

Mraochan - Lost City

@ Shevanel - One thing I'm wondering lately is how long I can reasonably expect the servers to be here in the first place. The car analogy doesn't work with me; among other things I'm a mechanic. Let me share my perspective using a car analogy:

Cars used to be simple and easy to work on and last a long time. People used to care about things lasting awhile. A lot of people worked on their own car, because a small toolbox of tools and a jack was all you needed to take the entire thing apart and fix it. I've owned these cars. Now, new cars require a massive ($10k) chest of tools, a ($10k) diagnostic computer, and a complete shop with lift, etc ($20k) to repair them. On top of that, new cars are built like ****, seriously. The purpose of a car is to get from point a to b, and that's it. Why so complicated and built like ****? It's what people want, all these extra bells and whistles and safety features and built in navigation... all of a sudden we don't even have to think about where we're going or what we're doing anymore, just jump in and hit a button, we're safe and comfortable...

Much like the crazy availability of oracles and hypers. PWE is simply catering to the demands of the majority of their income, just like the automotive industry. I can't really hold them at fault, I just wished I'd seen it coming earlier or started playing when the first servers went up.

By the way, your analogy is pretty weak seeing as how when you purchase a car, you get a title, and a bill of sale, you pay taxes on it, you register it and it's in the states' records, etc. That's tangible property, a little different from pixels. You can kiss any money you put into a game like this goodbye, you have no title, no guarantees of anything as stated in the TOS. They could shut the servers down tomorrow and no one could do anything. Sorry, not trying to flame or argue, just pointing it out. b:surrender

And Michael your Superbowl and Indy analogies made me lol and are 100% accurate in expressing the way I feel about TW now. b:bye

TheDan - Sanctuary

haybails wrote: »

This I completely agree with, I could not possibly argue against it but, there would still be one question, which we can't truly answer! For how long would they keep up TW at such expense?

I'd love to join in TW every so often but by Jove, I'm broke enough as it is! (Not yet found a niche for being a successful merchant etc.) b:surrender

I'd rather have some TW than no TW at all. Even if it doesn't last, at least it buys them more time to find a fix.

Pressa - Heavens Tear

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

You're out of your mind if you think TW isn't one of the most important aspects of end-game PWI has to offer. The most active players in any MMO are gonna be looking for whatever end-game content it has to offer. If there wasn't any end-game content... what would be the point of leveling, gearing up and charging zen? So you hit level 100 and quit? Competitive game play is what keeps most people entertained and continue playing. PW is very limited on end-game content so TW is one of the hugest things that kept people playing.

As for declining populations... I don't claim to exactly know. This is purely based off my observations as an observant that is easily online more than 60+ hours a week. Let's see... Tournament holds 128 people. Last year there would be so many people there wouldn't be enough chests for everyone to participate. Now not even half of those chests are taken. Severe decrease of anyone at grinding spots. About 3 months ago there used to be waiting lines at grinding spots in OVS because it was packed with people grinding... now it's always empty. Another example is faction activity. About 3 months ago there was easily 80-100 people online daily. Now we have 30-40.. and we're the biggest TW faction of 190 members. High levels becoming inactive much more rapidly than before. 2/3rds of our old TW roster 3 months ago is now inactive. My observations seem to conclude that high levels are quitting at a faster than ever before.

http://w2i.wanmei.com/news/gamenews/20100817/54352.shtml link for PW-CN's recent server merges. 6 servers becoming 3. I'd say by the looks of it... if PW-CN is indicating that it's a dying game... PWI will follow suit if they decide to shut down. PW-CN's hard core gaming style's declining population indicates that there is an overall lack of competition there too.

I'm not arguing that there isn't incentive.. it doesn't even seem like problems are being acknowledged. A lot of people are just riding this game out until another MMO comes out... it didn't have to be this way though. PW-CN seems to have acknowledged this and have already taken action in the form of server merging to buy more time.

PW-CN PW-CN PW-CN.............. That server has been out longer then ours by a long shot but your comparing it to ours............ Those servers have a different situation being out longer more people have played it giving to the whole actually needing the server merge. What your complaining about is as manray said a small percentage of the player base just because its important doesn't really mean that everyone is capable of playing considering its smaller every time you look as the requirements to play in it go WAY up. You see that as natural of course that everyone else must be in end game already and all those 60+ are now in end game more or less and are ready for TW but you also realize that on most servers its 90-95+ to even be of use in TW. So you ring out what is end game and the number gets smaller and smaller and smaller so basically all you want is a infusion of high level players to TW against but there almost always is a decent supply of lower levels coming up on the end game but unable to do TW till much later. Your saying there is a problem that doesn't exist the fervor for TW hasn't gone its more of a fabrication of your own minds creating a mountain out of mole hill.

Now look at this honestly how many players actually paid for their charms completely with TW money even in big guilds they claimed that they paid for their charms with money made elsewhere. Why should this make any difference now that its mirages instead of TW pay? The refund? Please when do they even get that back in small guilds I was pretty sure the winner got the bulk of the bid. What exactly made it change huh? I mean if your a big guild owning all the map and now you guys don't have enough cash to defend all your territories because of the lack of TW pay I say thats exactly why this rule was implemented.


sigh and because I seem to have lost my train of thought I think thats a good stopping point I also appear to not be aware of my torso anymore like I am some floating head with hands way down on the keyboard its quite a odd feeling so I must take care of that.

TheDan - Sanctuary

Pressa - Heavens Tear wrote: »

PW-CN PW-CN PW-CN.............. That server has been out longer then ours by a long shot but your comparing it to ours............ Those servers have a different situation being out longer more people have played it giving to the whole actually needing the server merge. What your complaining about is as manray said a small percentage of the player base just because its important doesn't really mean that everyone is capable of playing considering its smaller every time you look as the requirements to play in it go WAY up. You see that as natural of course that everyone else must be in end game already and all those 60+ are now in end game more or less and are ready for TW but you also realize that on most servers its 90-95+ to even be of use in TW. So you ring out what is end game and the number gets smaller and smaller and smaller so basically all you want is a infusion of high level players to TW against but there almost always is a decent supply of lower levels coming up on the end game but unable to do TW till much later. Your saying there is a problem that doesn't exist the fervor for TW hasn't gone its more of a fabrication of your own minds creating a mountain out of mole hill.

What's your point? PW-CN's been out longer, but has been through 2 server merges. I'd say we're about due a server merge if you're only considering time frames. A small percentage of the total population, but a large percentage of the total end-game population being the most active and competitive players on the server. *facepalm* You logic fails horribly. Are you trying to say that just because a small percentage of the population have reached end-game.. developers should stop updating the game and wait until a large percentage of the population have reached end-game before introducing more content?

Pressa - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Now look at this honestly how many players actually paid for their charms completely with TW money even in big guilds they claimed that they paid for their charms with money made elsewhere. Why should this make any difference now that its mirages instead of TW pay? The refund? Please when do they even get that back in small guilds I was pretty sure the winner got the bulk of the bid. What exactly made it change huh? I mean if your a big guild owning all the map and now you guys don't have enough cash to defend all your territories because of the lack of TW pay I say thats exactly why this rule was implemented.

EL OH EL. Do you even know what you're talking about? I'm guessing you don't TW very much. With the TW changes small factions don't even TW here anymore. No factions have attacked us since the TW changes and now no factions defend us when we attack either. Please tell me what charms do I need to pay with TW money at all? I haven't equipped a charm for TW in 4 months because no factions will attack us. Before the changes, I'd actually be losing money from 3 hour TWs. TW pay only covered 1/6th of my total costs. Now I'm making pure profit off having 5 minute rolls that don't require a charm at all. Big factions profit by not needing to wear charms for 5 minute rolls. Because of this lack of TW pay, I'm actually profiting. Oh the irony. And how does this make TW more competitive? A server merge would solve all these problems of lack of competition and big factions would start losing money by having to have real TW again.

anwynd

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

. With the TW changes small factions don't even TW here anymore. .

lolz charisma is still giving its all we are just atking randomly sense our ldr is a little crazy (& sexyb:avoid) lolz we may not be much of a threat but we give it our all when we TW & i must say the couple times we fought you it was fun lolzb:victory

Pressa - Heavens Tear

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

What's your point? PW-CN's been out longer, but has been through 2 server merges. I'd say we're about due a server merge if you're only considering time frames. A small percentage of the total population, but a large percentage of the total end-game population being the most active and competitive players on the server. *facepalm* You logic fails horribly. Are you trying to say that just because a small percentage of the population have reached end-game.. developers should stop updating the game and wait until a large percentage of the population have reached end-game before introducing more content?



EL OH EL. Do you even know what you're talking about? I'm guessing you don't TW very much. With the TW changes small factions don't even TW here anymore. No factions have attacked us since the TW changes and now no factions defend us when we attack either. Please tell me what charms do I need to pay with TW money at all? I haven't equipped a charm for TW in 4 months because no factions will attack us. Before the changes, I'd actually be losing money from 3 hour TWs. TW pay only covered 1/6th of my total costs. Now I'm making pure profit off having 5 minute rolls that don't require a charm at all. Big factions profit by not needing to wear charms for 5 minute rolls. Because of this lack of TW pay, I'm actually profiting. Oh the irony. And how does this make TW more competitive? A server merge would solve all these problems of lack of competition and big factions would start losing money by having to have real TW again.

Ah I do not get where you got I didn't want more in game content out of what I said but whatever I do what more in game content I am just saying that your saying TW is such a big thing but it is to me and you but those of whom who make up the bulk of the population of the server are not able to TW thus its not important and wouldn't want a server merge ruining their chances later I guess is a good summary not all of what I meant though.

This brings us to what I said earlier people are scared to attack you stupid you roll them in 5 mins and you expect them to grow to face you it simply doesn't work that way. If you want a bonsai to grow you don't cut the whole dam branch off you cut little bits trim it but nurture its growth. Thats why I say you break up if you claim to want fun you have to pay for it if you want friends don't say you want TW without being willing to do something for it. And why do you have to pay? You worked hard right? You don't wanna give up what you got but its that very attitude is why you aren't having fun your killing all the buds that sprout and expecting the tree to grow its very shortsighted of you. Not only you are the problem though any other guilds on the map need to help this along. Honestly I have heard of Sanctuary no one wanted to bid before the change so obviously they weren't going to bid after it you act like its such a surprise put yourself in their shoes would you want to bid and get a 5 min TW with people who want fun TWs but don't wanna let TWs become fun. Notice I ain't sayin you have to give everything up just help another guild become stronger or choose a slightly stronger guild already and let them get a land thats a surefire way to members. Or like maybe the influence of you being unbeatable is so great that only disbanding or a rumor your dying would even have any effect. But these are just suggestions feel free to think of your own.

Also thank you for your vote of confidence I haven't missed more then 10 TWs since the server Heavens Tear started and am in the oldest guild and the same guild I started in.



Oh and charms I was talkin bout was the ones on HT because TW really hasn't died here. Although if you ask some enrage they would tell you differently because they think it died for awhile even though it really didn't.

Knownase - Heavens Tear

Pressa - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Oh and charms I was talkin bout was the ones on HT because TW really hasn't died here. Although if you ask some enrage they would tell you differently because they think it died for awhile even though it really didn't.

Lets see if this holds true in the next month or so.


TW is only interesting due to the collapse of a former TW faction on HT and its resulting......results.

....and as stated in another thread, just because Rad and Enrage had one 3 hr fight, doesnt mean TW is lively and vibrant for everyone else.

TheDan - Sanctuary

Pressa - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Ah I do not get where you got I didn't want more in game content out of what I said but whatever I do what more in game content I am just saying that your saying TW is such a big thing but it is to me and you but those of whom who make up the bulk of the population of the server are not able to TW thus its not important and wouldn't want a server merge ruining their chances later I guess is a good summary not all of what I meant though.

This brings us to what I said earlier people are scared to attack you stupid you roll them in 5 mins and you expect them to grow to face you it simply doesn't work that way. If you want a bonsai to grow you don't cut the whole dam branch off you cut little bits trim it but nurture its growth. Thats why I say you break up if you claim to want fun you have to pay for it if you want friends don't say you want TW without being willing to do something for it. And why do you have to pay? You worked hard right? You don't wanna give up what you got but its that very attitude is why you aren't having fun your killing all the buds that sprout and expecting the tree to grow its very shortsighted of you. Not only you are the problem though any other guilds on the map need to help this along. Honestly I have heard of Sanctuary no one wanted to bid before the change so obviously they weren't going to bid after it you act like its such a surprise put yourself in their shoes would you want to bid and get a 5 min TW with people who want fun TWs but don't wanna let TWs become fun. Notice I ain't sayin you have to give everything up just help another guild become stronger or choose a slightly stronger guild already and let them get a land thats a surefire way to members. Or like maybe the influence of you being unbeatable is so great that only disbanding or a rumor your dying would even have any effect. But these are just suggestions feel free to think of your own.

Also thank you for your vote of confidence I haven't missed more then 10 TWs since the server Heavens Tear started and am in the oldest guild and the same guild I started in.



Oh and charms I was talkin bout was the ones on HT because TW really hasn't died here. Although if you ask some enrage they would tell you differently because they think it died for awhile even though it really didn't.

I think you missed my point. TW is pretty much what end-game is all about. If there is no competition and no one to challenge us, who's going to bother gearing up and play the game anymore? It's not our fault there is no challenge. If it was our fault then how come it's the same across almost every server? One faction dominating the map is because there aren't enough competitive factions to stop them. Your logic still makes no sense. How is us giving up land going to make TW challenging? Weak factions on the map does not equate challenge or competition.

You keep trying to blame strong factions for being strong. TW is dead here and no one's going to stick around and do charity work on the game long enough for there to even be a challenge. You keep insisting on large factions waiting for small factions to get stronger, but we've waited 4 months for no threats. Our faction has 17 lands now and 90% of them were 5 minute rolls off the 2nd strongest faction. Unless there is a server merge, I doubt anyone will be able to provide challenge in TW on Sanctuary when not even the 2nd strongest faction will show up to TW us.

Pressa - Heavens Tear

Knownase - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Lets see if this holds true in the next month or so.


TW is only interesting due to the collapse of a former TW faction on HT and its resulting......results.

....and as stated in another thread, just because Rad and Enrage had one 3 hr fight, doesnt mean TW is lively and vibrant for everyone else.

Thus is true but you also realize its been 1-2 hours for a long time now.



And I didn't miss your point TW is the end game content to be had yes and I don't claim to know the precise situation your in. I am not blaming the strong factions for being strong I am saying you cannot claim you want a tree and then cut it down don't be stupid. And why is it similar across the servers? Because its been that way for a very long time the strong go to the strong faction making it stronger there may yet be strong people in your server but like I said there is a general air of there is no reason to TW on sanctuary due to factions like yours. But as you see there are actually some factions bidding but they can't bid every weekend maybe every few weekends. Tsk honestly I am just debating your particular server problems rather then the server merge concept which my stance on it is the people running the show are already considering obviously. But you see I think you should trust them to know how much activity is on their own servers they won't close one down until its necessary. Cause really all your doing is sayin because there are so few people doing the same activity I am the server must be dying and I just don't agree with your logic even if your right.

All I am doing is saying you should take a proactive approach to your problem rather then expecting a faction to pop up and be able to compete with you. Its difficult to tell you what would be best for your faction I am not there I have not seen what has happened its a solution you have to come up with just don't be unwilling to lose something for the answer.