The Chinese Servers got Server Merges. Why can't we?

TheDan - Sanctuary

As many of you already know, the Chinese servers have recently gotten a 2nd server merge, a TW map wipe with 1.5x compensation of the original pay for all the lands, and a server upgrade to hold more players with less lag. The GMs/Devs in China have readily acknowledged and addressed the problems with the vanishing competition in TW. I want to know why the GMs here at PWI aren't acknowledging that the same problem exists here. If you want proof of our declining TW competition check here.

Server merges seem to be looked down upon in our community, but why? Apparently server merges means that there are problems. Yes; that's true, but does ignoring problems mean that they will fix themselves? Or that they don't exist? No. Previous threads regarding the same subject have stated that there would be name conflicts, lag, and unfairness because of different economies. The Chinese servers have already resolved name conflict issues by adding a small title at the end of each person's name. Example: TheDan - Sanc and TheDan - HT could be plausible way to address the name issues on a newly opened server with a map reset, upgraded server engine to increase player capacity and reduced lag.

For unfairness in PvP/TW which is pretty much what end-game is for me... I have to admit I'd rather have unfair PVP and overall stimulated competition than no PVP and competition at all. For 3-4 months now, my faction has 5 minute rolled the 2nd strongest faction. We used to have line ups of 120-150 participants for war and now we're barely getting 60. No faction has attacked us since the TW changes and no faction has showed up to us in TW. I believe this is the same case for the Lost City server... the game would be revitalized if we introduced more players to compete against in TW. I would much rather lose a TW in 30 minutes knowing we fought our hardest than to crystal walk every faction on the server for 4 more months until the map is all one color. Map resets wouldn't be a viable option for increasing competition because people get tired of TWing against the same opponents under different tags. Most likely a map reset itself would only give people PvE TW and then once things become serious again.... people will use the same strategy: No Show.

With the slowly declining population of "long-term" players and them being replaced with the new generation of 10x end-game that hypered their way there... it leaves me with a sour taste in my mouth knowing things did not have to be this way. A lot of older players are just riding the game out because the only thing that keeps them playing is friends. If PWI truly wishes to retain more of their "long-term" players then why isn't server merging even considered an option?

Before I get an automated response on this thread, I want you to consider a few things... I haven't equipped a charm in almost 4 months for TW. It makes my entire faction less inclined to upgrade their gear, charge zen and basically play the game at all. Operating costs should be lower in the long run as there are less servers to manage. Even if admitting there are problems in the game is going to scare a few newer players away... you'd still be making more money in the long run by maintaining more "long-term" players, a better community and better customer satisfaction.

So before shutting out the entire idea of server merging completely... Ask yourself what is there to lose? Things are already starting to go downhill.. wouldn't acknowledging it and addressing it make people more inclined to stay "long term" players?

I'd like a real response from a GM about this... I definitely think server merging is a very plausible option at this point and a lot of people will agree with me here. What do the GM's think of the idea? I don't want to know if it's possible or not... I just want to know what they think of the concept behind it.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Even up to a few months ago, I would have said you're crazy and that would only make things work.

I'm pretty much in agreement... Merging servers would reinvigorate playerbases from each of the servers. And a lot more people to play/tw/fight/drama/befriend...

For the first time since I've been playing this game... regularly since Feb09, I would actually welcome this now.

FatherTed - Dreamweaver

Even on servers where TW is dead, they still might be moderately close to full though.

I agree I'd like to see more competetive TW, but not at the cost of a server so full I can't move due to lag.

When I first played on DW I could run through west Arch with settings on high without lagging. Now I am lucky to make it through West with best performance on and all other settings down without lagging out. Merge us with another server? I find a new game.

Teny - Heavens Tear

It sounds plausible, HT is boring as hell as is, TW and non-TW-wise.

The only thing is, I don't believe GMs will openly discuss profit with the "customers" as that's somewhat unprofessional, server costs aren't discussed openly afaik.

As for the decision, I was under the impression PW-Beijing holds supreme power over PWI, therefore even if the Admins of PWI are in agreement to a server-merge, it would be up to PW-Beijing to agree to it.

All in all, I think it's a great idea but not holding my breath based on the administration's position.

TheDan - Sanctuary

FatherTed - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Even on servers where TW is dead, they still might be moderately close to full though.

I agree I'd like to see more competetive TW, but not at the cost of a server so full I can't move due to lag.

When I first played on DW I could run through west Arch with settings on high without lagging. Now I am lucky to make it through West with best performance on and all other settings down without lagging out. Merge us with another server? I find a new game.

If they upgraded the infrastructure of the server engines like they did in PW-CN to reduce lag... I don't see the problem behind it. PW-CN gave it a chance, why can't we? I mean... The whole thing with the TW changes update... our response is: 'Let's give it a chance first we'll take the wait and see approach.' So why aren't server merges given a chance then? It'd resolve more problems than it would cause imo.

Besides... people who are unhappy with their new "home" so to speak... should be given a free character transfer to a different server of their liking. Problem solved.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

FatherTed - Dreamweaver wrote: »

When I first played on DW I could run through west Arch with settings on high without lagging. Now I am lucky to make it through West with best performance on and all other settings down without lagging out. Merge us with another server? I find a new game.

When you started on Dreamweaver, it was still a brand new server, about a month old.

Just because West is filled with 2/3's alts merchanting doesn't mean the server is anywhere near full.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Is this thread a view point from a faction that has already obtained half their goal of triumph? Because youve been getting few months of no-shows?

TheDan - Sanctuary

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

Is this thread a view point from a faction that has already obtained half their goal of triumph? Because youve been getting few months of no-shows?

Yes and No.

The problems in the overall lack of competition in TW seems to be consistent in other servers as well... Michael_dark made a thread regarding the state of TW since the TW changes. You can see for yourself the lack of enthusiasm for people to even show up for TW in other servers. People don't even bother defending their 150 mirages anymore.

Even if my faction had been getting TW shows... we would still be fighting the same people we had been fighting for like the past year now just under different tags. Introducing more people to PVP/TW against would definitely increase competition as there would be more participants factoring into who gets what.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

Yes and No.

The problems in the overall lack of competition in TW seems to be consistent in other servers as well... Michael_dark made a thread regarding the state of TW since the TW changes. You can see for yourself the lack of enthusiasm for people to even show up for TW in other servers. People don't even bother defending their 150 mirages anymore.

Even if my faction had been getting TW shows... we would still be fighting the same people we had been fighting for like the past year now just under different tags. Introducing more people to PVP/TW against would definitely increase competition as there would be more participants factoring into who gets what.

mmm to me it seems like a quote from someone who has ample amount of resources to spare. Like a millionaire with a bomb shelter saying "Would be fun if it rained missles!"

TheDan - Sanctuary

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Even up to a few months ago, I would have said you're crazy and that would only make things work.

I'm pretty much in agreement... Merging servers would reinvigorate playerbases from each of the servers. And a lot more people to play/tw/fight/drama/befriend...

For the first time since I've been playing this game... regularly since Feb09, I would actually welcome this now.

I was the same. I was strongly against server merges because they weren't necessary back then. Populations and competitions were not so much of an issue until now. But yeah... I welcome the idea now with the state of TW being changed and with recent problems not being fully acknowledged. b:surrender

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

mmm to me it seems like a quote from someone who has ample amount of resources to spare. Like a millionaire with a bomb shelter saying "Would be fun if it rained missles!"

I'm not saying you have to agree with me, but what's wrong with the idea behind it? Wouldn't you like to TW once in a while against factions that don't start with N and end in No show? TW is way unbalanced in favor of the strongest faction now; competition would prevent prevailing factions from taking the whole TW map.

FatherTed - Dreamweaver

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

When you started on Dreamweaver, it was still a brand new server, about a month old.

Just because West is filled with 2/3's alts merchanting doesn't mean the server is anywhere near full.

Not trying to claim DW is full by any means, Mike. What I am saying is that if you instantly double the population, I won't be able to play anymore, and like me many players will quit the game.

Olba - Sanctuary

So basically you want a server merge because you're bored?

Great. At most, they'll kill off either Raging Tide or Archosaur, which won't really change much, except that the heavy cash shoppers on those servers will complain about not being the #1-5 anymore.

Them merging some of the bigger servers is pretty much a ridiculous idea, even if it would revitalize TW.

Asheera - Raging Tide

I will only agree with RT merge and Arch since they are very "similar". But one is west coast and one east so impossible.

If they merge RT with any other older server I will quit, I chose RT because it was newest server at that time, I don't want to compete with "old" players end of story.

Many many people will quit if they merge servers, and more people playing > more money spent in the game > devs like it. At least, I hope they won't merge servers.

TheDan - Sanctuary

FatherTed - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Not trying to claim DW is full by any means, Mike. What I am saying is that if you instantly double the population, I won't be able to play anymore, and like me many players will quit the game.

In other games I played, they always allowed people to character transfer to another server if there were issues like that. I'm only suggesting the idea because server engine upgrades were introduced in PW-CN to reduce lag and people are happier there now from what I can read on their website.

I just want to know why the idea isn't even considered... I mean if it's worked just fine in PW-CN... I think we shouldn't shut the idea out completely.

Infliction - Raging Tide

I would like this game again if the last 4 or 5 updates were reversed, at least up to the TW change.

FatherTed - Dreamweaver

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

In other games I played, they always allowed people to character transfer to another server if there were issues like that. I'm only suggesting the idea because server engine upgrades were introduced in PW-CN to reduce lag and people are happier there now from what I can read on their website.

I just want to know why the idea isn't even considered... I mean if it's worked just fine in PW-CN... I think we shouldn't shut the idea out completely.

I'm an east coast player on an east coast server. Character transfer wouldn't help. What server merges would do would be : Increase the competitive nature in TW, and also cause thousands of players to quit because the lag would be too bad. Server upgrades on their part aren't going to put a new graphics card into my computer.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm not saying you have to agree with me, but what's wrong with the idea behind it? Wouldn't you like to TW once in a while against factions that don't start with N and end in No show? TW is way unbalanced in favor of the strongest faction now; competition would prevent prevailing factions from taking the whole TW map.

ill be all up for the idea once my faction can steam roll the late #1 fac on the server. But until then, my view is the same view you had 'back then' when you were in mid-striving condition. Unless a faction is say like #1-2 on the server, merger is somewhat of a gamble because the foundation of the faction may not be rock hard (nightly dan) as the top 2. There is a reason why alot of faction mergers are not successful. Server merge is on a bigger scale and will cause ripples.

Asheera - Raging Tide

Also you must be kidding when you say they'd prefer long term players over new ones in terms of $$$$.

Old players are strong enough to farm all their stuff, if they didn't already.

It's the NEW players that spend the most cash in the game.

Discourage and make the new players quit and you lose your most profit in such a game. b:bye

TheDan - Sanctuary

Olba - Sanctuary wrote: »

So basically you want a server merge because you're bored?

Great. At most, they'll kill off either Raging Tide or Archosaur, which won't really change much, except that the heavy cash shoppers on those servers will complain about not being the #1-5 anymore.

Them merging some of the bigger servers is pretty much a ridiculous idea, even if it would revitalize TW.

I still have yet to see one valid argument against the concept of server merging besides lag. Last I checked games are for entertainment... when people aren't enjoying the game anymore they'll leave. I'm only suggesting this to revitalize the entertainment which will make PWE more money. They should live up to their name if they are advertising tbh. They wouldn't be called Perfect World Entertainment if they were boring would they?

FatherTed - Dreamweaver

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

I still have yet to see one valid argument against the concept of server merging besides lag. Last I checked games are for entertainment... when people aren't enjoying the game anymore they'll leave. I'm only suggesting this to revitalize the entertainment which will make PWE more money. They should live up to their name if they are advertising tbh. They wouldn't be called Perfect World Entertainment if they were boring would they?

While I fully agree they need to do SOMETHING to make this game fun again at endgame levels - driving away a good portion of the playerbase isn't the way to go about it.

Oh wait, they are actively doing that already WITHOUT adding any real content.

ScarletOwl - Raging Tide

I think they should wipe the maps every 3-4 months

I'm against a server merge because then we would only have one community and at this point it would just turn into one giant greedy mob. there is a difference in how helpful difference servers are

Rhyme - Harshlands

If there is ever going to be a server merge its going to be

Lost City + Harshlands = ???

(Insert one of the PvE Servers) + (Insert one of the PvE Servers) = ???


There is going to be so much QQing from PvE Servers.(From Lowbies and people who play the game 100% Blue Named) Merging a PvE Server and a PvP will never happen.

TheDan - Sanctuary

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

ill be all up for the idea once my faction can steam roll the late #1 fac on the server. But until then, my view is the same view you had 'back then' when you were in mid-striving condition. Unless a faction is say like #1-2 on the server, merger is somewhat of a gamble because the foundation of the faction may not be rock hard (nightly dan) as the top 2. There is a reason why alot of faction mergers are not successful. Server merge is on a bigger scale and will cause ripples.

My faction has merged 3-4 times... Yes there are ripples, but if the GMs are smart they will merge similar servers with similar servers so there isn't severe transitioning problems.

PWI has already gambled many times when they decided to leave coral packs in indefinitely, recent TW changes, recent HH changes... I mean what's there to lose from taking one more gamble?

Conavar - Heavens Tear

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

TW is way unbalanced in favor of the strongest faction now; competition would prevent prevailing factions from taking the whole TW map.

If the strongest factions player are bored with lack of TW competition then it's up to them to make some ... Break the Faction up into New ones, all leave and go join the other not so strong factions.

To many people are to keen to put being the best before having fun. If you are not having the latter the former is worthless.

Lenore - Harshlands

I think it would be fun to have inter-server TWs as an event but as far as merges go, I am dubious, especially since the older servers are most definitely quite full.

TheDan - Sanctuary

Asheera - Raging Tide wrote: »

Also you must be kidding when you say they'd prefer long term players over new ones in terms of $$$$.

Old players are strong enough to farm all their stuff, if they didn't already.

It's the NEW players that spend the most cash in the game.

Discourage and make the new players quit and you lose your most profit in such a game. b:bye

They are already discouraging newer players by making it impossible to farm HH at their level. What's there to lose?

And yes, you're right.. new players spend the most cash in the game, so what's motivating them to continue cash shopping to better their gear when there's no more challenge, competition, PVP or TW?

$Flash$ - Heavens Tear

This is why I hung back on applying my Archer into Enrage......... especially after teh Mirages as pay now, (when my Mother gives me 100 Mirages a month) so why bother?

TheDan - Sanctuary

ScarletOwl - Raging Tide wrote: »

I think they should wipe the maps every 3-4 months

I'm against a server merge because then we would only have one community and at this point it would just turn into one giant greedy mob. there is a difference in how helpful difference servers are

Map wipes do nothing to increase competition... It'll be the same structured factions dominating TW.

And where are you going to get your help from if all the end-game helpful players quit the game because of lack of content/TW/PvP?

Lenore - Harshlands wrote: »

I think it would be fun to have inter-server TWs as an event but as far as merges go, I am dubious, especially since the older servers are most definitely quite full.

This is how I felt at first too.. but after seeing the PW-CN website they said it was possible to increase server capacity, I felt like server merging was definitely a viable option.

Longknife - Harshlands

Ok but WHAT do we merge?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but we have three East Coast servers and four West coasts servers, two of them being PVP servers.

The PVP servers probably wouldn't merge with anyone, simply because one is west coast (Lost City) and the other is East coast (Harshlands), so they can't easily merge with each other. Merging them with a PVE server would demand that one server changes to the other server's rules, which simply won't happen. Sincerely doubt east servers would mix with west servers because that would demand that users adapt to new lag; East coast servers in particular are prone to having European players, and I doubt they'd be happy if their server was suddenly moved across a country, even further away from them.


If these assumptions I'm making are true and they won't mix PVE with PVP or West with East, this leaves VERY limited options. Raging Tides only merge buddy would be Heaven's Tear (or was it Dreamweaver that was east?) and you could only merge two of the West coast PVE servers, leaving the other one forever mergeless. I also doubt they would merge the east coast ones, because one server may be crowded and the other may be barren. Some people WANT a barren server and some people want a crowded one; merging the two would mean the only east coast PVE option is a severely crowded one. It'd also suck balls for them if they merged it, suddenly got a wave of new customers due to some promotion or update, and then found themselves needing a new East coast PvE server.

So yeah, I don't see ANY good merge opportunities, to be honest.

Hitori_Hanso - Sanctuary

How's this for an argument: Your solution is only short term. If TW's still provided money as a reward instead of Mirages, I would be all for this. But the fact of the matter is that TW is an expensive habit to keep up, without the money coming in from owning a land, leaders of factions are just losing money faster then they can make it. And 150 Mirages per land aren't going to help any. They're so cheap that you have to have several lands to try to keep up with TW costs. Dan, you have it easier since you own a large part of Sanctuary, but smaller factions that can't gain a whole lot of land have trouble keeping up the cost for TW.

Asheera - Raging Tide

There is also the problem of world bosses, CoA competition, and other stuff... not just PvP.

You really think it's all about TW? 98% of the competitive people on new servers will dislike the merge to compete in all those events with older uber ones, and more than half of those will probably quit.

Imagine how crowded people will be for a world boss for example...