[Discussion of Territory War Changes 8-5-10]

without packs goldprice was down to 320k

guilds still had their lands



so guess what is the most reason for a 400-500k coin price ???


before those packs started, the gold price never reached 400-500k


and most guilds need the income to spend the money on charms (which brings money to you, it doesnt matter for u, if they pay themself the dollar or someone else spends them and sells them ingame)


its a fact, that tw income wasnt the reason for the high gold prices
tw income just made high guilds able to buy more of the gold

tw income is like 2M for each player on good guilds with some lands
they get it once a week... its around 4 gold per player they CAN buy
gold price is constantly up the whole week


TW's pump alot of money into the PWI-economy, thats right, but they arent the main reason for the inflation
if u truly want to stop it, stop packs

but i guess inflation to make profit is ok ... right ?

u reduced the dragon quest item price to stop pwi getn more money
price still ricing
u reduced the amount of chests ingame
inflation still there

even the stopped tw income wont have any effect

also i think, 500k per gold, is like a natural cap for 1 gold
people wont pay more than 500k

if u want to reduce the amount of coins ingame

I think the bidding hall is the cause of the gold increase.


Just dont TW for a week or two and dont spend money on the game that should do the trick.

OneHottShot - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I imagine, this is how the losers probably feel every week. The lose tw and get no pay for their charms etc... really..

No, that's the sentiment of most of the people who TW against relatively equal opponents every weekend whether they win or lose. Again your ignorance of not participating in tw for as long as many of the people who do who have TW'ed every weekend for months or a year or longer.

You don't even PvP or TW. This matters to you why? For no other reason to argue? b:bye

OneHottShot - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So in your vanity, you've decided to irritate and aggravate other players because you are ticked off at the devs? Thats like a mother justifying child abuse b/c her job ticked her off. If you really want to quit, quit. Uninstall and go.. but no sense in making others pay for what they didn't do.



This matters to me because I finally see the opportunity for others to TW. ME being one of those "others". If I'm doing it for fun, without reward of money or otherwise... I won't let anyone down if I'm less than perfect.

If it was just to argue with you, I'd have left a long time ago b/c most of your posts are arrogant and rude. Filled with malice, and destruction of other people. You sir, are not someone I would choose to debate with. You bring your debates down to the level of a person of a young age. You can make points without calling people ignorant, uneducated and dumb.

You are just ticked b/c not everyone agrees with you. Yamao (or however it is spelled) has brought up some very valid points on the same stance as I.. and you've called him ignorant as well. Everyone is just ignorant to you if they don't agree with you. That is immature and vain. All I have to say bout that...

Why would smaller factions TW? They dish out money, without knowing who they're bidding against. If they don't bid high enough, they won't win the bid. If they bid too low, they'll lose their money. And if they win, they get some mirages to compensate them for their costs. Do you really think a small faction can continuously dish out coins like that?

If you can and will, props to you. No sarcasm. It takes real dedication to run nonprofitable operations.

OneHottShot - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So in your vanity, you've decided to irritate and aggravate other players because you are ticked off at the devs? Thats like a mother justifying child abuse b/c her job ticked her off. If you really want to quit, quit. Uninstall and go.. but no sense in making others pay for what they didn't do.

1. Yes, welcome to PvP

2. No, it's like a mother taking excellent care of a child and raising them properly, then the child screams "child abuse!" to the cops, when in fact, there was never any. I've supported this game for a year and a half and if you notice my number of posts, I don't complain about much.

3. I don't want to quit, I want to find a reason to stay. This is the only one I can think of. This way will be much more fun. The devs are effectively making us pay for something we never did, and this isn't the first time!

Then you know that hundreds of ppl said the same things bck when they put the packs in for the third time. Then when they put silver manes in the cs. Idle threats are just that unless you carry out what you say you are going to do.

I've been here since dec of 08. In that time I've seen a LOT of things change. Did I like them all, no. but the fact remains this game is still free. Its still awesome and its still fun.

i have been here a while also and most of the changes were for the worse and no the game isnt fun anymore, i would sell my account if i didnt use it to play HOTK, PWE end goal is to run us off PWI, the game isnt fun not awesoem is fail sauce, cash shoppers now punish non cash shoppers as my self, TT mats dont sell for much, merchanting doesnt work when over 30% of PWI just quit game

This game is now a Cash SHopper's Paradise

OneHottShot - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Then you know that hundreds of ppl said the same things bck when they put the packs in for the third time. Then when they put silver manes in the cs. Idle threats are just that unless you carry out what you say you are going to do.

I've been here since dec of 08. In that time I've seen a LOT of things change. Did I like them all, no. but the fact remains this game is still free. Its still awesome and its still fun.

No, I didn't know that about the packs but thank you for the insight. I don't care about packs much. I've purchased approximately 300 and received nothing but regular tokens, so, yeah. How about when they put the Ninetails mount in the cash shop? I wasn't too happy about that, but I didn't come straight to the forums and say it was outrageous either.

If you've been here since Dec 08, you probably remember when they introduced the "chest of coins" reward in Cube of Fate. I don't know what happened on the HT server, but on LC it doubled the price of gold overnight. I wasn't happy about that either, but, I didn't feel it was a big enough issue to post my opinion on.

These changes to TW, as MANY have said, ruin the motivation for TW completely. At least that's the general consensus on my server, I truly believe. I've never been to TW, and I don't see much hope or point in going now. Part of the reason that I'm upset is because that dream is gone... that end-game goal for MANY.

The other reason I'm upset is because I can't look at the game for more than an hour now without getting a headache. b:angry

I will carry out exactly what I said I'd do. It wasn't intended as a threat, it's just my personal way of dealing with this. I'll give it 2 weeks and see what happens. And by the way, plenty of RPK guilds on my server go around killing low levels all the time anyways, I'll just be another one of them, no one will probably even notice...

The major differences I keep seeing pop up is that Lost City and the other servers have next to nothing in common. The only thing this patch has done is upset everyone. I mean Lost City has some of the heaviest cash shoppers in pwi. People spending from $20,000 upto $150,000 EACH. The only thing that this has managed to do is extenuate the void between heavy cash shoppers and regular/non cash shoppers.

They killed grinding for money. They killed super fast nirvanas for money.. Amid taking 13minutes instead of 10minutes isn't THAT big a deal.

Now they kill TW salary which was the main way TW kept going. In all honesty, no one now is going to TW. it will just be rpk random pvp. Or West Gate everytime people want to fight as usual. An inactive map and a dwindling number of players/customers. If they want to equal it out, they should of never had the packs around for the last year constantly. I've been here 2 years this september watching it get more and more rediculous and ill thought out patches, to date this is the worst. If the packs went and you had a way of farming all the things the packs had as contense that would of been the most sensible way of doing things.

Tremblewith - Heavens Tear wrote: »

What's there to discuss? Did you forget the Anni pack thread? 100+ pages discussed, and packs are still around. You all won't do a single damn thing, and EVERYONE already knows it. Oh and sorry completely forgot (My bad Mr. GM) - The Duke shouts are still here, and no DQ drop compensation.

Again for the 4th time: Take your company, and pass the ownership to someone who actually gives a damn about the player. Until then: Morons.

Kthxbai

I agree with everything this guy just said.

By using mirage pay for TW, you aren't evening out the game's economy, you are going to send it pit-falling. This is why:

At first, I thought "Hey, the guilds could always sell the mirages in cat shop and then split the coin among their members", but then I realized that this vain hope was extremely flawed for 2 main reasons. One: that would take way too much time, for major factions (like Nefarious, Regicide, Legendary, Vindicate, etc on Sanctuary) this would not work at all. They fight TWs all the time and no one would get paid on time. Two: this is going to drop the prices of mirages down to trash-value. I predict at most 5k within a month. You see this as a good thing and it isn't; that's where the Devs and GMs seem to be severely flawed. You all said that packs would drop down the prices for items too...are you effing kidding?!

I know a lot of people are running around without a worry about this, but it really upsets me. I've been in a faction (LIONSOUL) for over a year now. The faction almost died until leadership was changed and now we're gaining power fast. Within a few months we'd be 80+ and were planning on TW. This decision is ruining that goal. The other people that are running around not worrying about this are those who claim the TW is nothing but fun. I agree with that, to an extent, but these mirages have taken the competition out of TW and without the competition there is no fun.

To make that simpler for the Devs and GMs (because they seem to have trouble understanding the simplicity of our arguments): TW-coins=no reason to compete...no reason to compete=NO FUN

Now, the market...

Let me say something before I make my next point: I am not a cash player. I've worked hard for the coin I do have and have NEVER had over 9mil in this game. Besides TW being an extra motivator for this, by lowering the gold prices you are inducing a state of virtual poverty in PW. I only recently decided to sell my gold to buy my TT99 gear, because there's almost no way I can buy them with the coin I have now. Sure, a lot of people are going to flame me saying, "Oh, you can just do TT runs to get your mats, even the gold ones". Um, excuse me? Have you opened your eyes lately? With the current state of affairs in PW, not many people run TT anymore. I am an old player and remember when a lot of people wanted to do TT, but that isn't how things work anymore. You say you're trying to reduce the cash-players, but you are forcing people into becoming cash players.

This TW "quick fix" is a market crash, change it back to how it was, or find a compromise between the old and the new.

That is all.

/end

Aliella - Harshlands wrote: »

would you people stop arguing about stupid things, and stick to the thread topic? and thats tws maybe come up with solutions? b:bye

Return TW the way it was. Small factions can afford 100k refundable bids, but will be hurt with 500k non-refundable bids. Also if they bid and lose, no TW for them that week instead of being able to take the refund and bid elsewhere. This means less smaller factions actually participating. Factions that actually take their time and expense to recruit players who are active and constantly upgrade their gear and can actually win some territory to have the means to where they don't need to come out of pocket for expenses that individuals should not have to bear. As for fake bidding, fake factions who bid never got a refund before. They won't now either. Now you'll have no idea if there are fake bidders until bidding has ended.

The whole premise that TW was changed: To make it fair for smaller factions? Failure. To keep people from fake bidding? Failure. To help stabilize the economy? Failure. Keeping people who don't massively cash shop or play 24/7 playing? Failure.

It's all lies and it's sad how many people actually believe the BS if a GM speaks.

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Return TW the way it was. Small factions can afford 100k refundable bids, but will be hurt with 500k non-refundable bids. Also if they bid and lose, no TW for them that week instead of being able to take the refund and bid elsewhere. This means less smaller factions actually participating. Factions that actually take their time and expense to recruit players who are active and constantly upgrade their gear and can actually win some territory to have the means to where they don't need to come out of pocket for expenses that individuals should not have to bear. As for fake bidding, fake factions who bid never got a refund before. They won't now either. Now you'll have no idea if there are fake bidders until bidding has ended.

The whole premise that TW was changed: To make it fair for smaller factions? Failure. To keep people from fake bidding? Failure. To help stabilize the economy? Failure. Keeping people who don't massively cash shop or play 24/7 playing? Failure.

It's all lies and it's sad how many people actually believe the BS if a GM speaks.

As the leader of a small level 3 faction, I agree 100%.

By the way Michael_dark your sig is FTW. lol evertime

Mraochan - Lost City wrote: »

No, I didn't know that about the packs but thank you for the insight. I don't care about packs much. I've purchased approximately 300 and received nothing but regular tokens, so, yeah. How about when they put the Ninetails mount in the cash shop? I wasn't too happy about that, but I didn't come straight to the forums and say it was outrageous either.

If you've been here since Dec 08, you probably remember when they introduced the "chest of coins" reward in Cube of Fate. I don't know what happened on the HT server, but on LC it doubled the price of gold overnight. I wasn't happy about that either, but, I didn't feel it was a big enough issue to post my opinion on.

These changes to TW, as MANY have said, ruin the motivation for TW completely. At least that's the general consensus on my server, I truly believe. I've never been to TW, and I don't see much hope or point in going now. Part of the reason that I'm upset is because that dream is gone... that end-game goal for MANY.

The other reason I'm upset is because I can't look at the game for more than an hour now without getting a headache. b:angry

I will carry out exactly what I said I'd do. It wasn't intended as a threat, it's just my personal way of dealing with this. I'll give it 2 weeks and see what happens. And by the way, plenty of RPK guilds on my server go around killing low levels all the time anyways, I'll just be another one of them, no one will probably even notice...

Yea, the second time they put the anni packs in game there was a riot.. the 3rd time it was worse. yes I remember the chest of coin. I also remember a lot of other things that was good about this game. I've seen it come and go. The fact remains though it is still FREE. Could they make a lot of changes for the better, of course. Main point is, ppl have rioted on these forums over lots of things and in the end they put on their big boy pants and sucked it up and adjusted to change. Thats what we have to do in real life as well, shouldn't expect it that much diff on a game.

Keyven - Lost City wrote: »

The major differences I keep seeing pop up is that Lost City and the other servers have next to nothing in common. The only thing this patch has done is upset everyone. I mean Lost City has some of the heaviest cash shoppers in pwi. People spending from $20,000 upto $150,000 EACH. The only thing that this has managed to do is extenuate the void between heavy cash shoppers and regular/non cash shoppers.

They killed grinding for money. They killed super fast nirvanas for money.. Amid taking 13minutes instead of 10minutes isn't THAT big a deal.

Now they kill TW salary which was the main way TW kept going. In all honesty, no one now is going to TW. it will just be rpk random pvp. Or West Gate everytime people want to fight as usual. An inactive map and a dwindling number of players/customers. If they want to equal it out, they should of never had the packs around for the last year constantly. I've been here 2 years this september watching it get more and more rediculous and ill thought out patches, to date this is the worst. If the packs went and you had a way of farming all the things the packs had as contense that would of been the most sensible way of doing things.

If someone is spending 20,000$ to 150k on this game even in 5 years they are nuts. Do you have any idea what that kind of money can do? There are familes out there with both parents working for minimum wage whose kid could be put through college with that... and more... Thats just crazy. And shameful imo-of course.

Mraochan - Lost City wrote: »

Solution : remove patch entirely, add item linking and OPTION for new font

Removing patch would not solve the issue. Its deeper than that.

Flatpaw - Lost City wrote: »

I love how everyone is complaining about packs being here but everyone is buying packs?!?! duke dont shut up about who has won what lol.
everyone is complaining about gold prices but constantly buying gold at those inflated prices!
everyone is complaining about how noone will be able to afford to buy charms for TWs anymore! but if noone can afford to buy charms aint it still gonna be the same playing field, everyone will die much eaiser!
everyone was complaining about how expensive everything was getting to buy and now complaining about how prices are gonna drop?
everyone needs to deside what they are gonna QQ about and stick to it. QQing about everything kinda makes it loose its effectivness.
anyways thats my post for the year have fun peoples and to all the people running this game i say good job at fixing things when you can, and thank you for all the extra content you have given us

Two gigantic thumbs up! Nicely done.

Keyven - Lost City wrote: »

Michael_dark although I don't always agree with you, you're 100% right. The system before was perfectly fine, the only refinements they really needed to make were:

Actually I think the TW system did need a few tweaks. It wasn't perfect and there was a lot of room for improvement, however all the recent changes are pure BS and based on lies.

The real truth is that these changes were made so PWI would have more people spending real cash. It's a trend that started a little over a year ago and they have systematically removed any way to earn coin in-game one by one other than merchanting or buying packs.

1) Bikinis put in cash shop. Dragon Temple no longer worth farming for money.
2) Tokens pretty much removed mining mats as a way to make coin.
3) Cut DQ prices.
4) 2x drops ruined the green mat market.
5) ????

I know there are a few that I missed, those (with the exception of DQ prices) are just the ones that primary affected me.

The green mat market was ruined? I left about a year ago(right after anniversary packs came out), the prices are the same or higher for most mats. I was npcing astral stones before, now people are buying for 150k each. And Tsu's ghost mask went from worthless to 2mil each... To me the gold mat market was ruined with the chips thing, even then, it wasn't that much.