[Discussion of Territory War Changes 8-5-10]

paypaal wrote: »

people sitting on mass of coins by cashshopping is fine^^

Yes its fine you either bought the stuff collected, farmed it, You had to do something had to take some sort of action to gain the items to sell and get money. You had to spend time on the game doing something to get the items to sell for money.

paypaal wrote: »

people sitting on mass of coins by doing tw isnt fine^^

If you own 40 of the 47 territories and only defend 4 of them. The other 36 earn you money for doing absolutely nothing after they came into you possession. You did not have to take any action to get the coins. Did not even have to click a single icon or anything to get that money from 36 territories that would have given you a minimum of 360,000,000 coins. Yes you may have had to fight hard to get them. And after the battle got rewarded for it. But after that why should you continue to reap just huge reward for do absolutely nothing. You did even have to press you mouse once to earn the reward. Where how is that fair? It would be fairer that the TW you did fight in gave a reward but those that required nothing should give no reward.

You just want free money for doing nothing.

paypaal wrote: »

kk... so no balance issue, its a money issue
thats hypocrisy



why should european or asian people stand up in the middle of the night or on early morning to do TW for mirrages ?

this will make the game a american and no international server


for me is TW 3 am, no intention to do it anymore ^^

Shamina - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Well imho you are wrong. Many ppl I personaly know are in TW faction just coz of the coins they get. If u get 30 mirages a week from being in pro TW faction (and also u need to pay a lot if u lose a territory), they will rather return to their old factions.

See theres the issue TW is to have fun not for players to farm coins.This coin farming has ruined the ecnomy.So GM's not all of us are upset over this ,only those who use TW to "Farm Coins" are. Why else would you be upset over this change?
As for the complaining on repair bills and such thats simple,change it so as you enter TW you get no equiptment damage.There problem solved. As for the complaining over stuff like charms and such.Oh well go make your own or dont use bought ones ,it's your option .
Thank you have a nice day.

Hell, I barely have been around that long but the packs have made the economy go haywire in this game. I'm used to games stuffing up the economy though >_>;

Good_morning - Sanctuary wrote: »

In a nutshell, correct me if I`m wrong.

PWI theory:
Factions get too much money from TW -> players get too much money from TWing -> Gold prices are rising spectacularly.
Solution: Nerf TW pay so TW players will have less money to spend, plus they cant afford charms anymore, so they won`t buy gold, so the gold prices will go back down.

My theory:
Packs were introduced -> Players became greedy -> Gold prices went from +/- 200k to 400k iirc.
Solution: Remove packs altogether.

Supportive evidence: http://i35.tinypic.com/9h2t0l.jpg

What you`re seeing is a piece of the Nefarious paysheet from when they still owned about 95% or the map. As you can see Nefarious got a grand total of 500mil per week and after distributing that fairly, most players got about 3,2mil that week. That about covered 2 platinum charms, which you needed, and then I haven`t even mentioned all of the potions one would use. So even then, being a player in the top paying faction, didn`t earn you a whole lot of money.

PS: Yes I am a coward posting from a low level alt trying to stay anonymous. Sue me.

lol don't blame you i knew id get flamed which lucky only one person did... PPL say ohh the leader gets the money... yes they do but since here i have seen the money go to to help with charms... my last faction it didn't but we was ok with it but we only had one fast tw and yes we did it for fun... here its tw after tw

allot assume that the ppl with the land just roll in the money and we don't I use to think the same thing but I was wrong....we fight to get our gear coin which we have to keep upping and going to keep up with other higher rising factions... for cloths and what ever we need like everyone else we still have to grind live in Ty but anymore that don't cut it... you look allot of the grinding comes from dq well they cut what you get for them... everyone would like to see gold prices go down but you look at the AH after this patch i guaranty you will see it jumped in price... hello new packs came out... the day new cloths cane out it jumped you want to fix the gold price cap it... stop doing the packs theres allot better ways to do this.... I for one am done putting real life money in!

i have said in allot of other post my feeling for the lower lvl faction... all you have done is make it harder for them to bid... yes they can start a 100k but you know they will be over bid... now they don't get to have any fun twing!

there really has to be a better way to fix things then this idea its the greed of the real life cash stuff thats the problem not the tw system!

cybrpope wrote: »

updated sorry

"Go make your own"

mhm...poor barbs who burn 1-1.5 plat charms / week

People want to enjoy this game rahter then being forced each week to farm for TW costs.

Woops so much for that theory

I died at page 54.

Most of PWE's changes to the game don't affect me much, since I don't heavily CS, I don't TW, and I'm usually there just for friends, the community, PvE content and just exploring in general. But I can imagine that in future, I would want to go into PvP.

What is particularly disturbing to me is not the fact that PWE wants to make money. It is the fact that PWE is blatantly exploiting players with no discipline.

I don't remember all their changes, but these are a few I can think of, offhand that have debatable consequences.

Bounty Hunt - I personally like this. I've been feeding genies EXP for months, so I get to level my skills up to my level and I can have a shot at making decent genies. It's been a year since I've started playing the game, and I haven't felt any rush to level. I've always thought it was a good tool...until lazy players came along and started doing nothing but BH. And it's difficult to convince them to take the slow but rewarding path despite the obvious problem of fast leveling. Most skills are outdated, they run out of money, they have backdated gears and they wonder why instances are suddenly five-folds harder. Then they re-roll, repeat the cycle...and still don't get any better. This is an obvious case where the player is the problem and not the tool, but the tool exacerbated the situation.

Jones Blessing - I don't use it. For grinding, it's a god sent tool. For PvP? I have not done TW, but from reading the forums, this tool sounds like a cheap way to "gain power" and one-shot people. I don't like that. It makes completely no sense. For 'becoming a fan' of PWI you gain that monstrous power? If anything, it only encourages people to become 'addicted to power.' So far, I've seen people so amazed at their new power that they'd rather aggro and die just to marvel at what they can do with the Blessings.

Packs - I like it, if only because it cheapens HP/MP Food and shards considerably...and -interval/end game gears become available. It's fun to buy a couple of packs for some gambling when you get your pay at month end for some gratification of scoring some big thing. But the in game effects...I think the rest can tell the story better than I ever could.

This is the negative view point:

Want to level quickly? Use Hyper EXP stones, dailies and BH.
Want to get power? Buy packs and hope to score.
Want to get even more power for no apparent reason? Become a fan.

This is the positive view point:

Want to level all your skills? Feed your genie and do BH daily.
Want to have fun gambling? Buy packs and use the tokens for whatever you need them for.
Want to grind faster? Become a fan.

So far, there's been a lot of argument that it's up to the players to either take it positively or negatively.

But this newest argument that TW is the reason for inflation? That's such a blatant lie. And this blatantness is what disturbs me.

It can't be denied that PWE is not directly responsible for players who choose to pay to win. But can PWE deny this? That they're exploiting players?

I mean, who are you kidding saying that you're trying to push the gold prices down when you suddenly put up that True Gem Socket Pack and Dragon's Fire Pack? I don't think PWE is dumb enough to believe it'd suddenly shoot Gold prices down instead of up?

The impact? A whole entire community reeking of greed.

And I don't think we play a game to be reminded of the same disgusting things that happen in the real world.

Edit Accidentally hit the publish button before I was done.

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

So if PWI is good in those two aspects, what's the problem?

The problem is they've got their priorities out of order. Everyone plays a game to have FUN. Fun should be the number one priority. However, for whatever reason they've put PWI's main source of fun behind another priority: a balanced economy.

Unfortunately the way they've balanced the economy requires people to put in extra work (farming for TW) to have fun. (TW) What's worse is the system allows for the possibility that you could farm, bid your farmed money and simply LOSE your money with nothing to show for it. If this continues then people will get bored of farming and decide it's not worth it. With no TW, there's no fun, and then there's no reason to play this game.

Agreed.

The recent changes have changed the focus of the game completely...and it's definitely not fun.

They need to get used to these threads now

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

I stay for my friends and because the F2P MMO market pretty much blows. This update is pretty much taking one of the very few enjoyable things from the game and removing it.

So what you are saying is that you can't enjoy TW without being able to make money at it? Wow... this is the biggest example of greed out there. And you call PWI greedy? What happened to the fun of it all. This game is supposed to be fun. TW isn't your JOB, its not your lifeline to pay your electric bill or your mortgage. If you don't do it for the fun then yes, you are upset. But if you are doing it for a paycheck none of us care anyways. If you played it for fun, you can still do that. They didn't remove TW at all. Its still there. So if you played for fun, they didn't take anything away from y ou.

The_owner - Lost City wrote: »

I don't mind. Mirage payout? fair enough. At least now other factions are able to get in on the fun, and not just the rich and strong ones. Since not alot of people will be willing to go to war now with mirage payout, some factions now have a chance to actually compete!

As for charms... They ruin the PvP system entirely. Your opponent (or yourself) gets an Extra Hp Bar (or several if you let enough time pass between ticks)


Look at the bright side! b:victory

They are too busy whining to look at the bright side. But I agree with you 100%. If TW is about the fun aspect of the game, that is still there. The big fat pay checks just aren't. This is where they weed out the boys from the men. In other words, those here b/c the game is fun (and tw) will stay. Those that was just logging on for their weekly pay check.. bye bye!

MysticRaine - Sanctuary wrote: »

LOL the checks arnt that big... but they help*replace some of the cost not all* Of the charms used... and when your required to use a charm what do you do... and b4 you say ohh your in it for the pay... get to know the person first b4 judging them

Really? A return of 180 million isn't that big to you? Its not our fault that the faction leaders don't disperse it how they should. But I see that as a big return.. HUGE in fact. Thats a lot of coins being generated. Enrage (on HT) owns over half the map (closer maybe to 3/4) Even if they just got 100 mil per territory you do the math. Thats a big freakin pay out.

IF you ppl are in it for the fun of TW then this shouldn't bother you that much. You will just have to grind a bit more to make charms (which aren't necessary, nice but not needed). The rest of us work for all our charms and luxuries in this game... now no one else is above doing that either. Can't wait for gold to go back down.

OneHottShot - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So what you are saying is that you can't enjoy TW without being able to make money at it? Wow... this is the biggest example of greed out there. And you call PWI greedy? What happened to the fun of it all. This game is supposed to be fun. TW isn't your JOB, its not your lifeline to pay your electric bill or your mortgage. If you don't do it for the fun then yes, you are upset. But if you are doing it for a paycheck none of us care anyways. If you played it for fun, you can still do that. They didn't remove TW at all. Its still there. So if you played for fun, they didn't take anything away from y ou.



They are too busy whining to look at the bright side. But I agree with you 100%. If TW is about the fun aspect of the game, that is still there. The big fat pay checks just aren't. This is where they weed out the boys from the men. In other words, those here b/c the game is fun (and tw) will stay. Those that was just logging on for their weekly pay check.. bye bye!



Really? A return of 180 million isn't that big to you? Its not our fault that the faction leaders don't disperse it how they should. But I see that as a big return.. HUGE in fact. Thats a lot of coins being generated. Enrage (on HT) owns over half the map (closer maybe to 3/4) Even if they just got 100 mil per territory you do the math. Thats a big freakin pay out.

IF you ppl are in it for the fun of TW then this shouldn't bother you that much. You will just have to grind a bit more to make charms (which aren't necessary, nice but not needed). The rest of us work for all our charms and luxuries in this game... now no one else is above doing that either. Can't wait for gold to go back down.

There needs to be a balance between the cost of having fun and the utility derived from the activity.

I enjoy watching basketball. Would I dish out $1000 for a front row seat? No, the amount of satisfaction I get from it doesn't justify the costs I paid.

Would I spend millions on charms and apoths to have 30 minutes of fun, and then be paid back in 10 mirages? No.

You're thinking "fun" comes free, at no charge. But yet, you're foregoing resources to have that fun. Your time, your money, your effort. When these costs reach an unbearable level, would you still continue your "fun" for the sake of fun?

/Groovy/ - Harshlands wrote: »

500M coins = 100 Best Luck Tokens

Per hour it's 100 / 24h = 4,1(6)

Watching Duke shouts, I'm fairly sure more than 4 Best Luck Tokens drop from packs every hour (checked at EU timezone, I can imagine more drops when US players are active).

Conclusion? Your beloved packs create more coins in 1 day than old TW system created in a week.


The only way it might affect Gold price is:
TW not worth doing anymore -> TW getting less competitive -> players getting less competitve -> players opening less packs (since they don't need that OP gear from them anymore)

You forget the ending to that:


Less money spent buying packs.


Equals:


Less revenue for PWI


Equals:


Declining profits


Equals:


Dead Game.



Plus



Drop in investment in PWI, should PWI report real earnings quarterly.

Asperitas - Lost City wrote: »

There needs to be a balance between the cost of having fun and the utility derived from the activity.

I enjoy watching basketball. Would I dish out $1000 for a front row seat? No, the amount of satisfaction I get from it doesn't justify the costs I paid.

Would I spend millions on charms and apoths to have 30 minutes of fun, and then be paid back in 10 mirages? No.

You're thinking "fun" comes free, at no charge. But yet, you're foregoing resources to have that fun. Your time, your money, your effort. When these costs reach an unbearable level, would you still continue your "fun" for the sake of fun?

Your argument is completely flawed.

You dont have to spend millions. All you have to do is buy a $4 charm. You want your "fun" to come free you dont want to have to pay for it. If TW is so much fun for you either put in a little effort or pay for your fun. You think that you should have your "fun" and then get paid for it as well. Typically you have to pay to have fun they dont pay you to have fun.

OneHottShot - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So what you are saying is that you can't enjoy TW without being able to make money at it? Wow... this is the biggest example of greed out there. And you call PWI greedy? What happened to the fun of it all. This game is supposed to be fun. TW isn't your JOB, its not your lifeline to pay your electric bill or your mortgage. If you don't do it for the fun then yes, you are upset. But if you are doing it for a paycheck none of us care anyways. If you played it for fun, you can still do that. They didn't remove TW at all. Its still there. So if you played for fun, they didn't take anything away from y ou.



They are too busy whining to look at the bright side. But I agree with you 100%. If TW is about the fun aspect of the game, that is still there. The big fat pay checks just aren't. This is where they weed out the boys from the men. In other words, those here b/c the game is fun (and tw) will stay. Those that was just logging on for their weekly pay check.. bye bye!



Really? A return of 180 million isn't that big to you? Its not our fault that the faction leaders don't disperse it how they should. But I see that as a big return.. HUGE in fact. Thats a lot of coins being generated. Enrage (on HT) owns over half the map (closer maybe to 3/4) Even if they just got 100 mil per territory you do the math. Thats a big freakin pay out.

IF you ppl are in it for the fun of TW then this shouldn't bother you that much. You will just have to grind a bit more to make charms (which aren't necessary, nice but not needed). The rest of us work for all our charms and luxuries in this game... now no one else is above doing that either. Can't wait for gold to go back down.

The part you seem to be missing is that smaller factions with one or two lands will not get enough coin to even be able to afford to defend those lands. It costs 1.4 Million to build towers alone. The Big Factions full of cash shoppers truly gain the upper hand since they can afford to auction some gold and buy what they need. As the Leader of Fatalis (which has the third most land on our server at 7 lands) I talk every day almost with Leaders of the smaller TW guilds that we fight against. In our case we will still be getting just enough from this to operate our TW campaigns, but the smaller guilds than us (ones that own one or two land and try as hard as they can) are getting SHAFTED. Under the old system they could probably build the towers and maybe get some charms for their cata barbs. Now they can build one round of towers and four catapult scrolls with they get and then if they want to attack also, they have to dig in the pockets of the members. This will drive the members away and to bigger factions. Add to that the non-return on bids and no small faction can afford to compete in any way.

BTW price of gold on Arch server already going UP. It's not the game that dictates the price of gold, it's what the cash shop players are willing to sell it for. Without TW pay, they will need to get more income somehow and will likely resort to overpricing gold even more IMO.

Asperitas - Lost City wrote: »

There needs to be a balance between the cost of having fun and the utility derived from the activity.

I enjoy watching basketball. Would I dish out $1000 for a front row seat? No, the amount of satisfaction I get from it doesn't justify the costs I paid.

Would I spend millions on charms and apoths to have 30 minutes of fun, and then be paid back in 10 mirages? No.

You're thinking "fun" comes free, at no charge. But yet, you're foregoing resources to have that fun. Your time, your money, your effort. When these costs reach an unbearable level, would you still continue your "fun" for the sake of fun?

So what you are saying is that the 20-30 people that sit in the front row at basketball games enjoy the game more than you? Because they ARE willing to pay 1000.00 to sit their butts in that seat. Its no different. If you enjoy something, you enjoy it. IF it costs too much for you to enjoy it then you sit mid section. You aren't on the front lines of the fun.

Same with TW. If you are truly in it for the fun and not the money.. go uncharmed. Go not caring if you win or lose but just for the fun of the sport! The fun is free other than repair bill. You don't even have to go with pots. You people are so spoiled to having all the luxuries in this game you need to be taken down a few notches. I'm glad they are doing that. And yes.. now with the implementation of this new system I very well may join a TW faction JUST FOR THE FUN OF IT! Before it cost too much and the reward wasn't worth it to me. Now I can go in and just have fun, and not worry about disappointing anyone if I die repeatedly b/c my gears aren't the best! Se la vie! I'm excited!

Foxgrit - Lost City wrote: »

All I have to say is too bad so sad. Will stop the nutriders from guild hopping to wherever they can get the most pay.

For all the whiners complaining that the only thing they did was log in to TW and now they cant afford it...TOO BAD. Go farm some money or spend real money. If you are just a leech on the system then your opinions are irrelevant anyway. Spend money or GTFO.

You mean.... now they will be forced to be in factions that they actually like? Where there are people there that they actually want to do something with? OMG the world is falling and they can't get up! (nice post btw)

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

For a lot of you, if you can't afford charms at this level, with high level TT, Nirvana, Nien, CoA, etc etc, with the gear people are getting and the money people are making at this level, forget charms. Your gear is probably so shoddy that you get 1 shot by everyone with Jone's Blessing anyway.

*I'd quote it again but you did such a good job the first time*