Hard mode Server --> leave your opinion =)

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

the instance spit us out -,-; all of us decided to take a nap for a few hrs

It was HORRIBLE...rofl...but did make for some good laughs. The original Frost I think might still give some 9x and higher issues if it was still around. Now frost for even 8x = b:sleep

ACLucius - Archosaur wrote: »

I have to disagree about BH. In fact, I think if anything it teaches a person their role in the squad and how to best perform it. No one wines BH29, I've never been in a wined BH39, and BH51 I have had wining few and far between. Just in 39 and 51 alone everyone learns their place. Had I just been out grinding alone to level, I never would have thought "hey, I should save Shadow Teleport for when the Cleric is in trouble so I can do a quick save if need be. Or to use Tackling Slash when someone pulls so the mob doesn't attack anyone at all. Or that Throatcut almost perfectly times it's cooldown with the next AoE by many bosses. Or that using Alpha Male when the tank dies on a boss no one else can tank can allow me to save the squad from a complete wipe by running and using Shadow Escape.

Some of these, I could learn in a zhen party sure, but it would be unlikely to learn those particular skills. All I would learn in when to use my AoE's, when to spark, when to replenish chi, etc. In solo grinding, I would learn what I could do against a single mob, but I already learn that just through BH by taking on a mob by myself. Many times, I'll even be the one to go off on my own and kill guardians in BH51, so I get more than enough experience in 1v1 with mobs.

Disagree as much as you like, I've seen the quality of players produced before BH, after BH and after Hyper. With each successive generation, the ability for many players to use skills has diminished noticeably.

Kill quests on the normal map isn't just about 1v1. It's about learning how to approach different situations and mob types under a variety of circumstances. Pure melee, mixed magic/melee, kiters, being pulled into other mobs, which skills and tactics will save your charm or learning how many you can take on or engaging multiple mobs... so many different situations that I can't even begin to think of or name them all. You don't learn how to deal with multiple scenarios over the course of one BH, or even a dozen. That's just BS if you're trying to say that you do. You also don't even learn that much from running one particular BH for a week or two before you outgrow it and move on to the next, you just learn how to tackle that one instance. That hardly gives you the training to overcome much else.

In most cases, it's also pretty obvious when you play with someone who has done all their questing than with someone who has hypered and BH'd all their levels. I've had 8x and 9x archers who said they didn't have or never leveled sharptooth. Partied with lvl 100 barbs who didn't have lvl 10 HP buffs. Seeing lvl 100 BMs using Tiger Maw and Draw Blood. Watch them aggro mobs and die in places they shouldn't. Not knowing which bosses AoE and how to run a FB properly. In most circumstances they're pretty pro when you throw them into a BH party, but when you try to do something else you just watch them unsure of themselves and confused. A lot of stuff that if they had taken their time, learned their skills, developed instinct and timing, they wouldn't need to be instructed to do things that they should already know at their level. Yes, I'm generalizing quite a bit, I have to.

Just like anything in life, you can tell when someone knows what they're doing and when they don't. I'm not saying all BH and Hyper Oracle nubs are horrible players. It's just obvious though that they didn't take the time to actually learn the game as they went along and opted to the short road to the end.

It's also the reason why there are so many threads of why people suck and how their BH parties were so fail. Earlier on in this game, you didn't see threads like that because most everyone actually learned to play and progressed as they leveled. Now they don't need to progress as they level and this shows. A lot.

Rainbowvidel - Sanctuary wrote: »

Same as this but with some changes.

• Ressurection and Guardian scrolls removed from the game. When you die, if a cleric doesn't rez you within 5 minutes, you automatically return to town with the usual exp loss for your level. Either way, the loss of exp cannot be prevented.
• The only way to receive exp from killing (or helping to kill) a specific boss is by having a quest that requires you to kill it.
• You can only get a "call to duty" quest if you're the one tabbing the pillar. If someone else does it, you don't get the quest.
• "Crazy Stone" quest removed from the game. To make up for this, more quests become available at each level from 30+.
• The world quest requires you to stop at all 30 locations without teleporting or logging off the game. If you do either one while the quest is active, it automatically fails and you must start all over.
• Scarlet Fruit is not tradable in any way and can only be used by the character that received it.
• Hp/mp regeneration capped at +20. For barbarians, 'Feral Regeneration' is changed to +1 regen per skill level instead of +2. Apothecary regen herbs removed from the game.

  
  Eh what no, these are terrible ideas.
  

• Spamming for ANY reason in either Common or World chat, or using those channels for trading purposes, is a bannable offense, which can result in you being muted from those channels. Muting time ranges from a few days to permanent.

That's all I can think of at the moment.

Now, that last one is much more like it b:dirty not like you can't turn WC off anyways though.

Rainbowvidel - Sanctuary wrote: »

Same as this but with some changes.

• Ressurection and Guardian scrolls removed from the game. When you die, if a cleric doesn't rez you within 5 minutes, you automatically return to town with the usual exp loss for your level. Either way, the loss of exp cannot be prevented.
• The only way to receive exp from killing (or helping to kill) a specific boss is by having a quest that requires you to kill it.
• You can only get a "call to duty" quest if you're the one tabbing the pillar. If someone else does it, you don't get the quest.
• "Crazy Stone" quest removed from the game. To make up for this, more quests become available at each level from 30+.
• The world quest requires you to stop at all 30 locations without teleporting or logging off the game. If you do either one while the quest is active, it automatically fails and you must start all over.
• Scarlet Fruit is not tradable in any way and can only be used by the character that received it.
• Hp/mp regeneration capped at +20. For barbarians, 'Feral Regeneration' is changed to +1 regen per skill level instead of +2. Apothecary regen herbs removed from the game.
• Spamming for ANY reason in either Common or World chat, or using those channels for trading purposes, is a bannable offense, which can result in you being muted from those channels. Muting time ranges from a few days to permanent.

That's all I can think of at the moment.

one nitpik, the yellow highlighted area. We need to understand the diff. between hard mode and keeping the fun in. If the tabber is the only person that gets the quest its gonna start cutting off the social aspect of the game.

WQ sounds painful with 30s.... but doable :P

i really dont get those 'llets make game more painful' changes o.0

i just would want to see more hard stuff to do...

hard and rewarding - so players can feel some achievement (yeah, thats what keep people playing too) and dont feel like they just wasted few hours..


thats remind me how playable was silly 2-2 and 2-3 for me..
Figuring out bosses.. Then first 'achievements' when we could do them in not usual way like ape without veno or wulrod without bb.. or how bad was first attempt on astral boss lol

but my fav always gonna be belial.. we refused to even try him for so long, scared x)
then first fails and wipe outs, and genuine happines in squad when we finally did him lolz

later improving ur gameplay to the point where u can duo/trio it.

and for nice reward ofc - green mats were worth then something



but at end game we got:

lunar which is just 'meh' after few times and u feel that ur just wasting money/time there.

warsong (i gotta be honest here -i did just bh bosses there) where i feel like in 1-2, cause bosses dont require any skill from u but just enough DD power and HP.

nirvana - which requires kindergarten-like skills i.e. poking black/white angels and digging elemental chests..
seriouslly i felt there like doing IQ tests for kids. wth were devs thinking S:

To make a "Hard Mode" server, I would change:

- No Genies.

- No Hyper Stones.

- No Packs.

- Orcale books only obtainable though random mob drops.

- Frostcovered reverted to original state.

- BH daily removed.

- MQ daily removed.

- No x2 exp/spirit/drops event.

These are just the start, to kind of bring the game back to what it used to be. I'm sure there could be other challenges such as increase mob strength, decrease exp given by quests, or increasing NPC prices. Just some ideas to throw around. This isn't so much to make a more fun server, but rather to make a hardcore challenge server.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

..sic....

How many times did Ancient Evil kill me on that last run we did Para? 3? 4?

b:cry

Juggernaut - Harshlands wrote: »

To make a "Hard Mode" server, I would change:

- No Genies.

- No Hyper Stones.

- No Packs.

- Orcale books only obtainable though random mob drops.

- Frostcovered reverted to original state.

- BH daily removed.

- MQ daily removed.

- No x2 exp/spirit/drops event.

These are just the start, to kind of bring the game back to what it used to be. I'm sure there could be other challenges such as increase mob strength, decrease exp given by quests, or increasing NPC prices. Just some ideas to throw around. This isn't so much to make a more fun server, but rather to make a hardcore challenge server.

You just described the server launch of PWI.

I don't necessarily want a hard server or a hard game, but I want a fun game that gives me challenges to offer.

Once upon a forever ago when I was a cutesy level 60 archer, I was dragged along on my first TT (thanks of Paramedic, who wouldn't stop bugging me about a TT run) and I remember I was nervous to go in there for the first time because it was a challenge. It was also really exciting. You know, this is back in the day when TT was fun as hell, and DDs like archers weren't constantly robbed of the good mats with or without 2x drops.

I am in agreement with Michael. BH and hyper have ruined many a player since their release because they just don't familiarise you with different situations. It's all very well "learning how to squad" but if you don't actually know how to play your class then you are not going to be a help to your squad. I feel the urge to gut something every time I hear an archer say "I didn't level Sharptooth, it's useless." because they have no idea just how very wrong they are. Because, back when I was a cutesy level 60 archer, it was imperative that an archer levelled this skill. It was part of being an archer - especially a pre-sage/demon player in pre-sage/demon parties where you didn't have venomancers with sage Soul Degen. The HP debuff was useful for squads back in those days because gear was not so uber, bosses were actually a challenge and that removal of 16% of a boss's HP really meant something.

So yeah. When I see archers spamming skills on bosses, like frost arrow or knockback, I'm going to assume they are BH and/or Hyper nubs who couldn't be bothered to go out and do some grinding to learn when these skills actually matter. And when I see archers who don't think to start off a chain of metal attacks with thunder shock then I just facepalm.

A fun game is a challenging game. In PWI's case this is a game that:
- does not have BH, Hyper and near unlimited 2x events
- does not produce pack sale after pack sale after pack sale after pack sale
- actually doesn't allow OP things to slip through the net, like a Sin being able to spark at all while in stealth and remain hidden

And on a related note if the OP problems were not allowed into the game or caught and removed early, we'd probably find that our genies would once again become a luxury and that a challenging server wouldn't have them. Yeah. Remember the time having a genie was a luxury? I do.

1-remove all bug

2- no packs ( or at least none that give you that good gear)

3-IQ test to enter the server. . .

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

BHs are a great addition. They encourage teamwork a bit more rather than boring grinding

Make instances unable to be wined, and I would agree. Mention an unwined run, people go into shock/seizures/etc.

Kai_Umi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

1-remove all bug

3-IQ test to enter the server. . .

Anyone with a reasonable IQ knows that making a piece of software that is over 5.5 gigabytes bug-free is impossible.

To the OP,

-No BHs
-No Hyper EXP
-Oracles back to a droprate only item.
-2x exp on very rare occassions.
-Chest of Coins removed from everything.
-No Anniversary Packs or clone of it.


Basically.....how it was back in the old days, before Anni Packs.

Zhenning was fun, I always zhenned when I could, it wasnt costly to lure.
I profited like...200K an hour in items and such.

FBs, yea, I loved doing them, it was great fun and EXP too.

I remember grinding in-general was fun for me, but it was rewarding at the time. It taught me how to aoe-grind as a Barb, even though we aren't the best at it.

yea true, thats prob that bhs are just too rewarding and ppl even dont do quests anymore - preschool about their toons

but if just one bh per day with exp similar to wq - i dont think anyone should have any objestions, even on hardcore server b:chuckle

it s nice speed up

and after all u learn bit more in instance than from combinig stones..


oh and 39 for 40s, 51 for 50s, 59 for 60s etc

now it s just too easy

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Of course you don't agree, you also don't sound like the typical BH leveler. I'm not saying grinding is necessary to learn your class, but people who don't even do their kill quests more often than not show their unfamiliarity with their skillset. All the so-called repetition is actually a series of different types of mobs that behave differently in different situations, many of them mixed in together.

You say grinding doesn't help you learn your class, but that's flat out wrong. Squad tactics is always important, however as a soldier or player in an MMO, you first need to become accustomed to what you need to do as an individual, and BHs throw much of the necessary individual training out the window and prematurely forces people to learning how to cope with being in a squad before even becoming instinctive and reactionary in situations with their own skillset without the backup of a tank, a healer or any instance.

When stuff goes wrong in a BH, you see the effects of this when you have massively fail classes, because when a squad fails it's usually the weakest link that fails and it cascades. Of course every squad will fail from time to time, but before BH and Hyper, you hardly ever saw so much QQ... even when we were lowbies spamming world chat doing low FBs for EXP... without blessings or genies, we'd go into tougher situations and have far less fail than typical pick up parties do these days.... why? Because people back then actually had to take the time to learn their soloing abilities before jumping into squad situations.

A good comparison would be group sports. If you don't know how to play the game, the best team isn't necessarily going to win. You need to be good at YOUR game before you can compliment a squad properly.

It's absolutely clear if you're in a high level faction who has played the game for some time and being in squad with those that haven't. Well, unless you're one of those fail players, I imagine... they often see situations that can easily be avoided but freeze, have no idea what to do, or just can't manage their class properly to avoid pulling a leroy.

Having run every instance except for new Frost and new Lunar to death, having all the FBs from 19 to 99 memorized from doing hundreds of runs, it's really apparent seeing the new crop of inexperienced 10x players who just don't know anything about the game except for how to run a BH or Frost squad when they should already know much of what they don't from experience, because they bypassed the majority of the game.

+1 and then some.

second line