Hard mode Server --> leave your opinion =)

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  • ACLucius - Archosaur
    ACLucius - Archosaur Posts: 610 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    You really fail on a number of levels. You're being defensive... not sure why. You're supposedly a veteran player who has been around a long time, yet you can't even acknowledge the detrimental effects that leveling much faster has brought to the game. And you think sin is a support class. Sure, I guess you could also say cleric is a DD class too.

    If I come off as being defensive, I do apologize as usually I also come off as being quite an **** when I sound that way. However, unless I am mistaken, I had said in my last post which you did not respond to that I do not like the amount of exp given from the BH, I simply support the general idea of using BH's as a way to teach players their class. Perhaps you did not read it accidentally, perhaps you simply ignored it. Either way, you could at least acknowledge it and not make it sound as if I'm all for reaching 80 in a month or less.

    And yes, I believe Assassin fits as a support class as well as a DD in a squad, and the skills they have support that stance. As I showed you, I can control multiple mobs attacking multiple people, whereas you will have more trouble unless they are in a group together. Crowd control applies to single drifters as well as groups. If you don't agree with that, go watch a riot being put under control. Police don't just control the entire crowd, they take care of the stragglers as well. You might control a large group very well, but Assassins control individual mobs that are spread out better.

    Also, yes a Cleric can be a DD if available for it. I doubt a Cleric needs to be full heal when a Venomancer has a Herc tanking. If the situation serves, classes can serve different roles than were originally intended.

    What level did you even get your BM up to? I also have smack, bolt and can always add occult to the list.

    I got my Blademaster I believe up to low-mid 8x, but I cannot be certain of what the exact level is. Unfortunately I had to delete it after I started making new characters as I grew tired of Blademaster at the time. Unless PWI can provide me with the information of a deleted character, I cannot give you any exacts. Still, it has been just under 2 years this fall since I played a Blademaster, so you will have to forgive me for forgetting about Smack's seal. However, if you want to include Occult Ice, don't forget I can use it as well, so that makes the amount of skills I have and their durations at max still above the probable stuns of a Blademaster.
    Apparently you haven't done any of the higher instances, sure your sin performs crowd control in fb39 really well.

    FB39, FB51, FB59, FB69, and TT 1-1/2/3 and 2-1 so far. If you really insist, as I said I'll be more than happy to test it out as well in other instances and report to you the results.
    lol End of discussion. Yeah, maybe you can even replace barb in GV too. I've done delta with sins a number of times. You're just high. Arguing for the sake of arguing is silly and it's become obvious that you're not speaking from experience.

    As I said, I haven't tried Assassin in every single dungeon, so I can't speak of the higher instances yet. However, I'm quite sure that I can still utilize many of the same skills, if for no other reason, to protect the Cleric and prevent a party wipe. This is only my second Assassin, my first reached 69 just before this server opened. I'm still learning more about the Assassin class as I go, but I don't assume to know it all...yet. b:laugh
    I know many different people from many different servers and versions. You're really coming across as a skilled debater (thank you, I always appreciate complements), however you're not coming across as a veteran player. And if you really are, you're playing devils advocate and your stance is pointless because you aren't a new player. It wouldn't matter if you took 6 months to patiently level or hypered to 100 in a few weeks. The overall mechanics of the game have already been learned and you'd gain little or nothing having to become familiar with them, because you would already instinctively know them better than most.

    A good point, but nonetheless I still attribute my understanding of the Assassin class and learning how to keep a squad safe by doing BH's. I doubt that if I hadn't had to lure Farren away in BH39 on my first Assassin, I wouldn't have guessed to put Alpha Male on my genie as a way to save the squad from a wipe on most bosses. If I waited till TT to start doing things like that, I wouldn't have bothered trying because the boss can't be fooled with stealth being 150. Now though, I still can prevent wipes by running off with the boss on a suicide run, and I believe BH did teach that. Just as well, I believe other people learn from their BH how to play their class in a squad.

    I may not be new, but I know people who were just on their first character and did better than many I've seen, and this has been during the BH era of PWI. So, as I said before, unless you have just plain bad luck or unless LC has so many more new people just doing Oracles and Hypers, then I don't know what to say of your problems you've been having. I do know though that a lot of older players have been leaving, and that a lot of new players have been coming in. I'm just saying....

    Now, unless you are saying the first version of BH when you had it just once per day was a problem as well, I don't think your arguments have any validity at all. Seeing as Hypers came out in the same month that BH was remade into this 3/day with tons of exp, you have two different factors which could be the cause of this, and one of them you have already said is a problem.
    Yes, I do remember. I also know by the time a player got to a moderately high levels they knew their classes much better than new players who speed level to 100. It's odd how you're such a veteran yet can't even see or acknowledge this. I call BS on your 'experience'. You're a 7x sin. You can get to 7x in a month of casual gaming. Perhaps you have been playing a long time, you just don't play often or regularly.

    b:bye

    Perhaps I need to switch over to one of my old alts from LC back in '08 for you to believe my experience? Maybe you need to acknowledge something yourself, that BH is not the problem itself, the free exp given out in so many ways, including the ridiculously massive amounts in BH, is the problem. Unless that is what you are agreeing to, I'm starting to think you are saying everyone should just do nothing but grind to 6x, then start doing dungeons. If that is the case, they are getting no real squad experience until TT, at which point it's basically going to be worse because they have no dungeon experience except the FB's which were done by the higher levels.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Didn't get the rest of it, but apparently I am the "destroyer of sin haters" as well.
  • aclucius
    aclucius Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Well, I suppose I should just post under my account name just to show it. If you don't believe how long I have been around for now, I'm quite sure you would look pretty foolish. I'd offer to show you that I've been on MY-EN as well, but I can't use that account on these forums.


    Off-topic: I wonder if this would count as a double post? One of the burning questions.

    Edit: also Micheal, if you really need any more proof, I suppose I could give a short history on UnLimited and it's downfall at the beginning of the server? Such as why Mieze left us for CQ, or lenient paraphrasing the WC drama between BLT and CQ? I'm just saying, not sure how much proof you will need, so I would like a little heads up on what I'm going to be required to defend myself against your character attacks with.
  • TheMagicPimp - Raging Tide
    TheMagicPimp - Raging Tide Posts: 1,946 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    A hard mode server .... like we used to have when the game was so much fun heh .

    It is all but a bitter sweet dream ....... you guys know it'll never happen .
    It's all about LoL,yo.
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Just like the thought of getting that big boobed red wizard unbanned on Sanct b:sad
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    aclucius wrote: »
    Well, I suppose I should just post under my account name just to show it. If you don't believe how long I have been around for now, I'm quite sure you would look pretty foolish. I'd offer to show you that I've been on MY-EN as well, but I can't use that account on these forums.

    Surprising. I'm not going to respond to your last post, we're arguing in circles. Many of the points you are making involves you as a player, not the majority of the population and as long as you keep viewing and responding to this discussion from that viewpoint, we're arguing about two completely different things.

    BH for your level, is not all that difficult... well, without blessings now, I'm sure it is a litt more. The attack blessings sure don't make up for the +10 def levels, but that's besides the point. It generally takes more time to get a party going than it actually does to complete it. All you really learn from a BH is how to run that particular instance... over and over. It does teach you your place in a squad, but early game you level so quickly the cost is not becoming intimately familiar with your skills, not being able to afford to upgrade your skills, not knowing when and where your skills are most appropriately used and not being able to upgrade your gear appropriately. You have the luxury of a full squad to cover your mistakes and to save your ****.

    Of course, I'm not talking about the majority of players who actually do most or all of their individual questing, I'm talking about thsoe who mostly level from dailies and BH. BH is not a replacement nor does it teach you your role as an individual. And I'll say this again and again, you need to know your place as an individual before you can compliment a team. Hiding in squads for the majority of the time you level up hinders your development more than it helps it. Again, you'll get defensive and disagree, but I'm not talking about players who have already played the freaking game for years, nor am I directly talking about you.

    You keep on thinking that I think BH is a horrible thing. I've never stated that, nor have I stated that people should be required to grind without that option. I also never said that you don't learn from BH. BH is more easy mode leveling than it is instructional. It's done far more harm than it has good for the game. Being in squad for 80% of your early leveling doesn't help you learn your class, it's a crutch that buffers you from realizing or finding out what works or not.

    Honestly I don't care how someone levels. If you're still a nub when you hit 100, we'll all laugh.

    And as for 'crowd control'? The ultimate crowd control I do is playing both barb and bm in gv. That includes luring all the mobs, bringing them all in, managing the health and aggro for the whole party as well as stunning and amping. There is no way in hell a sin could ever replace the job I do in delta. It's really hilarious to think that you could.
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • Airyll - Dreamweaver
    Airyll - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,882 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    How can a sin ever be viewed as crowd control? Seriously. If people are thinking assassins are honestly good crowd control and can compare to and excel beyond the crowd control ability of the BM, they have their head screwed on backwards and this game's player base is even more of a hopeless loss now then I initially thought it was.

    One point people seem to be trying to make is that there was little team-based play before level 60. Now, for instances, I'd agree, and for classes which can maintain crowds of mobs well and solo with ease I'd have to concede that there really was a lack of squad play in the lower levels. But for the love of jelly, keep in mind that, certainly for the first few levels, this was intended.

    You all cry that people have to learn somehow and that, before BH, everybody was a noob in TT, and I'm going to have to disagree. I wasn't a noob in TT when I first ran it - I wasn't sure of how the instance worked as it's not the same exact method in an FB, but I was by no means fail. In fact the basic principle of TT is the same as any dungeon: kill mobs in the way, destroy the bosses. If you were a failure in TT then you hadn't gotten yourself accustomed to playing in a squad. There was, and still is, plenty of FBs that you can try and join to get used to squad play. If you didn't bother to do this, it's your own damn fault, and you can't use this as justification to actually say BH is worth a dime.

    An elite mob that's twenty levels under you really isn't so elite any more. An elite mob that's between twenty to thirty levels under every single squad member really isn't that elite any more. If you want to use elite mobs as justification for "learning squad play" then you better be talking about elite mobs your level. You know, how it was back in the day when everybody was around the same level as their FB mobs.

    BH teaches you very little about squad play after the third time of running it, especially because of the level gap between the instance and the squad members. If you want the evidence of this, stop running your BH twenty levels lower than you for a day and instead, repeatedly run the instance at your level. With the quality of many players who BH and do nothing else, the chances are you're probably going to die, because finally the elite mobs are actually your level and are a real challenge. And all the fail players who rushed their levels won't actually know how to deal with the instance whatsoever.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Borsuc - Raging Tide
    Borsuc - Raging Tide Posts: 1,526 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    You're supposedly a veteran player who has been around a long time, yet you can't even acknowledge the detrimental effects that leveling much faster has brought to the game.
    Wait, are you actually implying that your opinion is the only true one, and people who disagree with you (vets or not) "do not acknowledge" the detrimental effects?

    Are you, by any chance, further implying that these "detrimental effects" are something absolute and proven as scientific facts, and everyone who disagrees is false?

    I suppose you probably think you're also the center of the world, am I rite?

    Well here's my try then. These forums surely have gone downhill and I do acknowledge the detrimental effects you brought on them by having you post your arrogant opinions.


    Now, you can say, I can blacklist or ignore you... Fine, then you go and "blacklist" BH too. Unless you want to blacklist for everyone, but then does that mean I have the power to blacklist you from the forum for everyone? b:bye

    Just giving an example btw above, to make you see it in a bigger picture (analogy).
    BH teaches you very little about squad play after the third time of running it
    Because grinding teaches you so much more right?
    What else do you suggest? Most people who don't want to grind will quit. I'm tired of people complaining about BHs but not suggesting an alternative.

    And at higher levels people don't even bother with BH anymore. I mean seriously 7% exp per day from BH is pathetic if you want to level.

    Or are you saying FC doesn't teach you anything either? Because grinding is such a learning experience when the mobs are the EASIEST, right? /sarcasm
  • ACLucius - Archosaur
    ACLucius - Archosaur Posts: 610 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Surprising. I'm not going to respond to your last post, we're arguing in circles. Many of the points you are making involves you as a player, not the majority of the population and as long as you keep viewing and responding to this discussion from that viewpoint, we're arguing about two completely different things.

    BH for your level, is not all that difficult... well, without blessings now, I'm sure it is a litt more. The attack blessings sure don't make up for the +10 def levels, but that's besides the point. It generally takes more time to get a party going than it actually does to complete it. All you really learn from a BH is how to run that particular instance... over and over. It does teach you your place in a squad, but early game you level so quickly the cost is not becoming intimately familiar with your skills, not being able to afford to upgrade your skills, not knowing when and where your skills are most appropriately used and not being able to upgrade your gear appropriately. You have the luxury of a full squad to cover your mistakes and to save your ****.

    Of course, I'm not talking about the majority of players who actually do most or all of their individual questing, I'm talking about thsoe who mostly level from dailies and BH. BH is not a replacement nor does it teach you your role as an individual. And I'll say this again and again, you need to know your place as an individual before you can compliment a team. Hiding in squads for the majority of the time you level up hinders your development more than it helps it. Again, you'll get defensive and disagree, but I'm not talking about players who have already played the freaking game for years, nor am I directly talking about you.

    You keep on thinking that I think BH is a horrible thing. I've never stated that, nor have I stated that people should be required to grind without that option. I also never said that you don't learn from BH. BH is more easy mode leveling than it is instructional. It's done far more harm than it has good for the game. Being in squad for 80% of your early leveling doesn't help you learn your class, it's a crutch that buffers you from realizing or finding out what works or not.

    Honestly I don't care how someone levels. If you're still a nub when you hit 100, we'll all laugh.

    And as for 'crowd control'? The ultimate crowd control I do is playing both barb and bm in gv. That includes luring all the mobs, bringing them all in, managing the health and aggro for the whole party as well as stunning and amping. There is no way in hell a sin could ever replace the job I do in delta. It's really hilarious to think that you could.

    Well, my points involve me because I cannot experience anyone else. If I speak of hearsay and what I think other people do, it all becomes circumstantial and worthless. However, after all these posts, I think we actually now understand each other and were basically saying some of the same things in different ways. Or perhaps we are still on polar ends and I'm still just misunderstanding your post. Either way, if you want to discontinue this, I'm fine with that and thank you for an enjoyable conversation.

    Like I said though, I don't know what affect I could have in delta. I'm more than willing to try it out just to see if I happen to get a group who is willing to be experimental. I might be able to do some good by putting a few stragglers in sinlocks, I might be able to Alpha Male some and run around till they need them pulled in. Who knows what could happen, I might be successful, or I might just see something very funny. Either way, if you want to know what happens, I'll be more than happy to tell you should I ever get such a squad. However, I can in no way tell you until I have experienced (as an Assassin) delta and see how my character would best be played.

    So, I'll let you know if I ever get a chance whether I completely failed on it or whether I did okay, and again, thank you for the intriguing discussion and for being respectful through it.

    @Airyll: I did FB's my level with a squad my level, the mobs have only ever been difficult for me to solo in FB19 and 29. After 39, they became pretty easy to kill. Now though, they are pretty much just as easy as the ones in my BH when I do my FB's. FB's aren't difficult in the higher levels in terms of mobs, they are just long and tedious with a big nasty at the end. However, you did point out something which I've been meaning to include in my suggested revamp of the BH system, being doing same level BH.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Didn't get the rest of it, but apparently I am the "destroyer of sin haters" as well.
  • Paramedic - Dreamweaver
    Paramedic - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,801 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    i would want just bh +10lvl and without power leveling

    i know ppl dont learn much in 59 or 69 cuz u wine them

    but 39, 51 could be just great..



    and bad ppl were always here. Before bh, they choosed easiest route too = questing/grinding

    those are same kind of nubs u see today, but they just level much faster and many of them reach high levels (normally they would proly quit or just stay on mid lvls).


    like i said before, prob is that game was made to be 'hard' but leveling is just too quick and there is less chance to learn anything.. (to point that they had to start nerfing it)

    but i think everyone agree with that.

    Or are you saying FC doesn't teach you anything either? Because grinding is such a learning experience when the mobs are the EASIEST, right? /sarcasm

    FC makes same 'evil' like low lvl BHs..
    true, u learn there something at 80s (?) .. like basics of zhening- but thats it.
    Later FC becomes tool to skip 80s and 90s (same like triple bhs on 40-60).

    And imo if anyone skip lesson like 2-3 then he will suck later for sure. It s simple test: if ur arent barb or bm and u cant run 2-3 without death (yea i know death happen sometimes) then it means ur not ready for later content.

    you will be burden for good squads.



    or u can directly go to full nirvana party i suppose.
    BUILD EFFICIENCY CALCULATOR: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1129681

    AGGRO MECHANICS: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=481682

    GAME IS DEAD wiki-article: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=938282
  • Asperitas - Lost City
    Asperitas - Lost City Posts: 907 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    And at higher levels people don't even bother with BH anymore. I mean seriously 7% exp per day from BH is pathetic if you want to level.

    Really? It seems like everybody in my faction still does their BH100.

    7% a day just from BH. That isn't enough for you? At 9x, playing 1 hour a day and levelling every 2 weeks is too much for you? For doing next to nothing, that seems to be an awful lot to me, and apparently for a lot of other people too.

    There are people who don't like to grind. There are people who don't like to grind, but do so in order to achieve something. And then there are people who just love grinding.

    There are things for low achievers. There are things for high achievers.

    Match those things up accordingly.

    You don't put in time, you don't get good things out of the game.

    Now you say "how about the people who don't like to grind?"

    Well here's an idea. How about toning down the experience from BH down to the exp equivalent you'd get from grinding? That's my proposed alternative.

    Let me reiterate what so many other I suppose you'd call "old-gen" players are saying. This is an RPG. You're not supposed to hit the level cap in a month. You're not supposed to farm your gear in a couple of days. You're not supposed to be able to sit there and get exp and money. And yet, this is pretty much what this game has become.


    Once upon a time, people would farm Metal King Slimes endlessly for over 200 hours and still be at level 65.

    Once upon a time, people would delete all the activated nodes off the sphere grid and refill them all just to max their characters.

    Once upon a time, people would kill off all their characters and level them up one at a time just so they could level them up with the best capacity core.

    Once upon a time, people would farm over 50 000 kills to level up.

    Once upon a time, people would sigh at the end of all their grinding and farming, pat themselves on the back and say "I did it."

    And sadly, these times are gone. Gone, the era of dedication and persistence.

    PS. Allow me to remind everybody that this thread is about a "hard mode" server. These suggestions are for "hard mode", therefore not for the eyes of oracle babies, 2x exp frost noobs, or any others who want easy mode even easier.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Deceptistar - Sanctuary
    Deceptistar - Sanctuary Posts: 10,454 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    All in all seems like the 'hard mode' is just a revert to the PWI launch era >.>;
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]lagunal8.deviantart.com
    ★"New weekly quests! "Discover the bug in the patch""-Nihillae★"My father would beat me if he found out I was QQing over a virtual pony."-Neurosis★"You're amongst the biggest blobs of fail I've ever seen in my life."-Ninnuam★"A statistic said 3% people of the world get enjoyment primarily from making people upset, and you are trying to discriminate them"-ilystah★["How To Tank Rebirth Order Delta (86+)"-Stickygreen Barb (1)restat. you want full magic, Arcane armour build (2)when mobs come /faceroll on your keyboard and you will one shot all the mobs (3)rinse and repeat]★"I've been spammed with 3 poops for 2 hours."-ColdSteele★"If someone fights learning, I don't bother with them outside of amusement factor."-Telarith★"This thread is a joke right? Please say yes."-eatwithspoons★ "This is why you don't post your opinions on the internet, most of the replies you get will be from people who missed a hug or two sometime in their youth."-Alacol★"Sexy! A post with a Binomial Distribution."-Asterelle★"It's about time PW starts to separate out the noob Sins from the rest."-salvati0n★"Shoo troll >:O"-TheDan
  • Sherufaniru - Raging Tide
    Sherufaniru - Raging Tide Posts: 47 Arc User
    edited June 2010

    Cut out >_>

    Once upon a time, people would farm Metal King Slimes endlessly for over 200 hours and still be at level 65.


    And sadly, these times are gone. Gone, the era of dedication and persistence.

    PS. Allow me to remind everybody that this thread is about a "hard mode" server. These suggestions are for "hard mode", therefore not for the eyes of oracle babies, 2x exp frost noobs, or any others who want easy mode even easier.

    Yes those Damn Metal King slimes and Metal Slimes b:angry That game too awesome for the new era I'm not even that old but that post made feel it b:sad
  • Asperitas - Lost City
    Asperitas - Lost City Posts: 907 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Yes those Damn Metal King slimes and Metal Slimes b:angry That game too awesome for the new era I'm not even that old but that post made feel it b:sad

    XD I knew there were some of us left b:victory
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • FoxRunning - Heavens Tear
    FoxRunning - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,048 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    i would so totally go for this, if it would also include a button like one BoI that allows you to choose if you want to go PVE or PVP.

    i really mis the old days of the game...

    b:sad
    If you were making a server with new rules...a server for EXPERIENCED PLAYERS...

    What you think it should have?
    (or should't have).
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    (and hugs to Flauschkatze for the sig!)
    "Thanks for writing me-- it's always great to hear from a vet.

    -FrankieRaye"
    Playing here since '08b:heart
  • Negreiros - Sanctuary
    Negreiros - Sanctuary Posts: 113 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    GMs MODS etc

    Any possibility of creating a Hard Mode Server?


    or pwi china-malasia-whatver would burns us in flames if it was done????
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] i have seen PW alive...it was awesome xD
  • volst
    volst Posts: 180
    edited June 2010
    I'd prefer easy mode (private server type easy). Just pvp all day instead of being bogged down by exp and farming. b:lipcurl
  • DrDrakkentre - Lost City
    DrDrakkentre - Lost City Posts: 55 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    volst wrote: »
    I'd prefer easy mode (private server type easy). Just pvp all day instead of being bogged down by exp and farming. b:lipcurl

    Go to a private server? ^^
  • SilverCleric - Lost City
    SilverCleric - Lost City Posts: 1,969 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    All in all seems like the 'hard mode' is just a revert to the PWI launch era >.>;

    Well it was more challenging back in the day...

    But I think they should add more traps and obstacles in instances to make the game more challenging. b:pleased
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    ✰The Nostradamus of PWI ✰

    ★ A not so Retired Veteran of PWI ★

    ✰ ~SilverCleric~ ✰
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Are you, by any chance, further implying that these "detrimental effects" are something absolute and proven as scientific facts, and everyone who disagrees is false?

    If you play the same amount of time, in 3 months, you'll still have about the same experience whether you hit 100 or are still working your way to 70. Just your arbitrary number will be higher.

    Yeah, your level is an obvious indicator of your experience. lol That was sacrasm since you don't ever seem to realize it.

    And at higher levels people don't even bother with BH anymore. I mean seriously 7% exp per day from BH is pathetic if you want to level.

    Umm... I'm in a faction with 140+ 10x. Most of the 'higher levels' that are regularly active actually do their BH. Many of them still world quest, and still a fair share of them still do CS. If you think 7% exp from BH is pathetic, wait till you hit 10x. I mean, you're so freaking pro already it should be cake when you only get 1% or .1% per BH? huh? QQ more please. What are you even in this thread for, you want the game to be easier than it currently is. This thread is pretty much proof that a lot of us think it's too easy.

    Or are you saying FC doesn't teach you anything either? Because grinding is such a learning experience when the mobs are the EASIEST, right? /sarcasm

    Frost is rinse-repeat. It really only teaches you something the first time or two in the instance... it mostly just teaches you how to run that instance. None of the other instances are quite like it, so you learn how to use hyper efficiently. As a mage? Yeah it teaches you a whole bunch. It's really hard if you do it at 7x. At 8s, the first couple runs are difficult, then it's relatively easy. At 9x+ you're doing speed runs in a little more than an hour. At 10x, it's like a 50m run.

    Really? It seems like everybody in my faction still does their BH100.

    Of course they do. He knows how to type so he thinks he actually knows what he's talking about. lol
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • migalia
    migalia Posts: 63 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    if they want to make thing hard, they should include a relatively better reward as well. not many people do the throphy mode because the reward is not worth going thru all the trouble.

    but that ruins their next diabolic scheme to empty players wallets to fill their own don't you see. Trophy packs (or some other name . . pack) will come out soon and have them or whatever you use them for. their just making everything you can earn a pain to earn so you spend more money on packs. "I sense a hidden agenda on 20% dq other then gold farming b:shutup" well that's my 2 cents b:chuckleb:bye
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Well, my points involve me because I cannot experience anyone else. If I speak of hearsay and what I think other people do, it all becomes circumstantial and worthless. However, after all these posts, I think we actually now understand each other and were basically saying some of the same things in different ways. Or perhaps we are still on polar ends and I'm still just misunderstanding your post. Either way, if you want to discontinue this, I'm fine with that and thank you for an enjoyable conversation

    And I'm looking at this as someone who has been 100+ for quite some time and have seen up and coming 9x and 10x all the time. I party with many of them every day. I'm just saying that you can tell the difference between a new unique to pwi player that has bh/hyper frosted all their levels from those that may have supplemented regular questing with bh/hyper frost, and those that actually took their time to level.

    Experience is mostly time-based... it takes time to gain experience. You need to divide that time appropriate to be rounded out. Looking at someone's level does not reflect how well they play their character

    One point people seem to be trying to make is that there was little team-based play before level 60. Now, for instances, I'd agree, and for classes which can maintain crowds of mobs well and solo with ease I'd have to concede that there really was a lack of squad play in the lower levels. But for the love of jelly, keep in mind that, certainly for the first few levels, this was intended.

    That's really the point they don't seem to understand.
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • ACLucius - Archosaur
    ACLucius - Archosaur Posts: 610 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    The first few levels, yes. I can understand levels 1-40 or even 1-50 being solo based. 1-60? That is just a bit excessive to me.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Didn't get the rest of it, but apparently I am the "destroyer of sin haters" as well.
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    The first few levels, yes. I can understand levels 1-40 or even 1-50 being solo based. 1-60? That is just a bit excessive to me.

    Joining squads too early gives you a far greater leniency of playing horribly without actually learning. So many people don't time ultis right and just sit there and mindless buttonsmash because in squad situations it doesn't really matter. Early on a squad is a crutch. You don't even get your ulti till 59. At the rate you level now and the rate at which you gain skills, you don't even really know what's useful and without a lot of repetition, experimenting and trial and error, doing nothing but BH and dailies does not make you a good player. Whatever.
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • Kupuntu - Sanctuary
    Kupuntu - Sanctuary Posts: 3,008 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Joining squads too early gives you a far greater leniency of playing horribly without actually learning. So many people don't time ultis right and just sit there and mindless buttonsmash because in squad situations it doesn't really matter. Early on a squad is a crutch. You don't even get your ulti till 59. At the rate you level now and the rate at which you gain skills, you don't even really know what's useful and without a lot of repetition, experimenting and trial and error, doing nothing but BH and dailies does not make you a good player. Whatever.

    Not to mention if you can actually afford any skills. BH gives you EXP and SP at the ratio of 5/1 which is like grinding, but money doesn't come easily. If I didn't merchant, I wouldn't have many skills over level 7 if any. In fact, I don't know if it was worth playing without having a steady source of money. Grinding can only get you so far, I get like 160k when grinding at Nightscream Island. Compare that to 1m per night that I get from merchanting and you get the point.

    Yes, I openly admit that I'm a new gen player. However, I would do TT like crazy if that could get me enough money. Currently it doesn't, and it won't ever change to anything better.
    100% F2P player. Started PW: March 2007, Quit PW: March 2011.
    pwcalc.com/e7016929e7b204ae "Pure axe" 8k HP multipath BM, last one of my kind.
  • ACLucius - Archosaur
    ACLucius - Archosaur Posts: 610 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Joining squads too early gives you a far greater leniency of playing horribly without actually learning. So many people don't time ultis right and just sit there and mindless buttonsmash because in squad situations it doesn't really matter. Early on a squad is a crutch. You don't even get your ulti till 59. At the rate you level now and the rate at which you gain skills, you don't even really know what's useful and without a lot of repetition, experimenting and trial and error, doing nothing but BH and dailies does not make you a good player. Whatever.

    For someone who does absolutely nothing but dailies, sure. However, a lot of people don't do just their dailies, they do their other quests as well.

    Off topic: did you level just recently Micheal? I thought you were 101. If so, congrats.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Didn't get the rest of it, but apparently I am the "destroyer of sin haters" as well.
  • Paramedic - Dreamweaver
    Paramedic - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,801 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Joining squads too early gives you a far greater leniency of playing horribly without actually learning. So many people don't time ultis right and just sit there and mindless buttonsmash because in squad situations it doesn't really matter. Early on a squad is a crutch. You don't even get your ulti till 59. At the rate you level now and the rate at which you gain skills, you don't even really know what's useful and without a lot of repetition, experimenting and trial and error, doing nothing but BH and dailies does not make you a good player. Whatever.

    1-60lvl of grinding - just to learn ur toon?

    b:embarrass

    im pretty sure that those who actually did only that 'lesson' and nothing else failed badly later.

    and they needed much time to catch up - and were those type of players u wouldnt ever want to help u with ur fb or other instance.


    seriouslly, i think that on my 40s and def. on 50s i knew more about game mechanics that many clers i still meet today. Really, those seem just unable to do something simple like predict who gonna steal aggro or even suck at using and timing different heals on different toons.


    and now

    simple question: if "joining squads too early gives you a far greater leniency of playing horribly without actually learning" so i guess is not recomended by you.

    then tell me who the heck you gonna take to your fb19, 29, 39, 51?..


    those tanks who dont know how to tank, clers- how to heal and DDs with poor idea about aggro and 0 about crowd control? (but sure developed best combos to kill quest mobs..)


    imo best what low lvl players can do is to early join squads to do quests and when they get some idea about game then go do fbs.


    p.s. i learned about heal aggro in my fb19, i also learned there how to cooperate with tank when mobs are trying to kill me.

    i think that pretty much for 19lvl cler. and on next fb i could learn something new..
    BUILD EFFICIENCY CALCULATOR: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1129681

    AGGRO MECHANICS: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=481682

    GAME IS DEAD wiki-article: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=938282
  • Deceptistar - Sanctuary
    Deceptistar - Sanctuary Posts: 10,454 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    1-60lvl of grinding - just to learn ur toon?

    im pretty sure that those who actually did only that 'lesson' and nothing else failed badly later.

    and they needed much time to catch up - and were those type of players u wouldnt ever want to help u with ur fb or other instance.

    seriouslly, i think that on my 40s and def. on 50s i knew more about game mechanics that many clers i still meet today. Really, those seem just unable to do something simple like predict who gonna steal aggro or even suck at using and timing different heals on different toons.
    Not really 'to learn'. Its just a bonus that was given to us and we didnt notice it back then. Looking back now we notice how helpful they were to us.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]lagunal8.deviantart.com
    ★"New weekly quests! "Discover the bug in the patch""-Nihillae★"My father would beat me if he found out I was QQing over a virtual pony."-Neurosis★"You're amongst the biggest blobs of fail I've ever seen in my life."-Ninnuam★"A statistic said 3% people of the world get enjoyment primarily from making people upset, and you are trying to discriminate them"-ilystah★["How To Tank Rebirth Order Delta (86+)"-Stickygreen Barb (1)restat. you want full magic, Arcane armour build (2)when mobs come /faceroll on your keyboard and you will one shot all the mobs (3)rinse and repeat]★"I've been spammed with 3 poops for 2 hours."-ColdSteele★"If someone fights learning, I don't bother with them outside of amusement factor."-Telarith★"This thread is a joke right? Please say yes."-eatwithspoons★ "This is why you don't post your opinions on the internet, most of the replies you get will be from people who missed a hug or two sometime in their youth."-Alacol★"Sexy! A post with a Binomial Distribution."-Asterelle★"It's about time PW starts to separate out the noob Sins from the rest."-salvati0n★"Shoo troll >:O"-TheDan
  • volst
    volst Posts: 180
    edited June 2010
    Go to a private server? ^^
    I don't trust 'em. Don't want to be **** and stuff. b:scorn
  • Paramedic - Dreamweaver
    Paramedic - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,801 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Not really 'to learn'. Its just a bonus that was given to us and we didnt notice it back then. Looking back now we notice how helpful they were to us.

    yeah, it s true that more u play more u know

    but learning toon skills dont require 500 hours (1-60lvl) and to kill every kind of mob on those lvls (u already have those all in 2 first fbs).

    prob is that now it s just too fast and too easy - so u dont have to learn at all to get higher level.


    to learn how to drive a car u need 20-40 hours, then ur just training and learning more advanced stuff.

    dunno why learning ur skills should take so much more
    BUILD EFFICIENCY CALCULATOR: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1129681

    AGGRO MECHANICS: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=481682

    GAME IS DEAD wiki-article: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=938282
  • Ethree - Lost City
    Ethree - Lost City Posts: 246 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Back in the day unless you were a wr or maybe an ep you had to pretty much solo grind until you were 6x. Of course thats not counting fb's. Then you were just zhenning which requires no skill unless you are a lurer but thats easy. You went in progression from theives,pirates,undines/fish, then your hell/heaven spots.

    You really learned your squad stuff from running,hh, lunar and the higher end fb's as fc was ridiculous. There was no bh to speak of. So really solo grinding wasnt a bad thing and really let you learn your char
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] tx Haiz too pro
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