Cashshopping: Required?
Comments
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Avoid the questions.
*shrug*SaintDominic - Sanctuary wrote: »GAME CAN BE HOBBY PERIOD. Your explanations are dull, so get over it. I can totally sense your sarcasm when you called her a barbie. Why do you have to "dis" someone for having good morals or someone who actually cares about people. You sir have no heart, so act like a egotistical person you are I don't care. I am obviously on her side in this one. b:bye
You repeated exactly what I said. English isn't your first language. I forgive you.
b:chuckleI post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
Hhlolz - Harshlands wrote: »Dont forget that the 45m i made from 3-2 and 3-3 were more than 50 hours of farming...
merchanting might be more than months but atleast it requires no effort, since all is done in afk catshop mode(from what i read)
Merchanting requires lots of effort. Sitting at the auction house or browsing cat shops for multiple hours trying to find good deals. Then trying to resell the items for profit. The ONLY way it doesn't take time and effort is if you use real life money (possibly in game coins) and buy items such as the pet packs while on sale.. and wait for them to go back to full price to sell. Then you still have to take time to sell. At least while ur doing tt you are getting items you possibly need while earning a few coins with the dq and other drops in there and you are possibly questing and enjoying time with your friends/family.0 -
Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »Avoid the questions.
*shrug*
You repeated exactly what I said. English isn't your first language. I forgive you.
b:chuckle
I went back a few pages, I failed to see where you said.. people (some specific) are just finding reasons to be critical and try to demean a person for their personal convictions and they are all just being jerks... yes... I don't see where you said that at all.0 -
OneHottShot - Heavens Tear wrote: »I went back a few pages, I failed to see where you said.. people (some specific) are just finding reasons to be critical and try to demean a person for their personal convictions and they are all just being jerks... yes... I don't see where you said that at all.
She says it all...I 100% agree on this. Internet is full of anonymous cowards or E-thugs.0 -
OneHottShot - Heavens Tear wrote: »I went back a few pages, I failed to see where you said.. people (some specific) are just finding reasons to be critical and try to demean a person for their personal convictions and they are all just being jerks... yes... I don't see where you said that at all.
Read the quote where I bolded the text. Never did I say that a game could not be a hobby. I just said that a game does not necessarily have to be a hobby.
b:byeSaintDominic - Sanctuary wrote: »She says it all...I 100% agree on this. Internet is full of anonymous cowards or E-thugs.
The internet is full of morons and idiots. Yes, there is a difference between the two.I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »Read the quote where I bolded the text. Never did I say that a game could not be a hobby. I just said that a game does not necessarily have to be a hobby.
b:bye
I lol'd so r u saying that pwi can be both a game AND a hobby. How nice. b:chuckle0 -
SaintDominic - Sanctuary wrote: »I lol'd so r u saying that pwi can be both a game AND a hobby. How nice. b:chuckle
No, that's not what I said either. BRBRBR
/wristsI post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »Read the quote where I bolded the text. Never did I say that a game could not be a hobby. I just said that a game does not necessarily have to be a hobby.
b:bye
The internet is full of morons and idiots. Yes, there is a difference between the two.SaintDominic - Sanctuary wrote: »I lol'd so r u saying that pwi can be both a game AND a hobby. How nice. b:chuckle
It can be medication for depression too.. just ask around!
People are who they are and they use different things for different reasons.
Imagine the schizophrenic people of the world making a different toon for all their different personalities. It could be THERAPY... (I'm in no way making a joke here)
I see both sides to this... work hard to get where you wanna be (in game) or use it as relaxing entertainment. Both are right.. HOWEVER; if your goal is to use it as relaxing entertainment, spending 8 hours a day in order to make enough to just be substandard isn't something I'd call relaxing either. I'd call it obsession. But to each their own...
Back on topic shall we?0 -
Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »Read the quote where I bolded the text. Never did I say that a game could not be a hobby. I just said that a game does not necessarily have to be a hobby.
b:bye
Ohhh okay so pwi is technically BOTH a game and hobby. That has lighten my day thank you sooo much.0 -
Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »The internet is full of morons and idiots. Yes, there is a difference between the two.
I'm going to be bold and very out of character (for me) here and say:
You should know! What's the old saying?... It takes one to know one.There's no such thing as a "Perfect World" full of Jade, diamonds, gold, and other riches and treasures. There is only an imperfect world, with an imperfect society, full of imperfect people, with imperfect idea's about how to be perfectly rich and perfectly perfect. No one cares about being perfectly kind, perfectly fair, or perfectly content.
It's a perfectly sad world.0 -
OneHottShot - Heavens Tear wrote: »It can be medication for depression too.. just ask around!
People are who they are and they use different things for different reasons.
Imagine the schizophrenic people of the world making a different toon for all their different personalities. It could be THERAPY... (I'm in no way making a joke here)
I see both sides to this... work hard to get where you wanna be (in game) or use it as relaxing entertainment. Both are right.. HOWEVER; if your goal is to use it as relaxing entertainment, spending 8 hours a day in order to make enough to just be substandard isn't something I'd call relaxing either. I'd call it obsession. But to each their own...
Back on topic shall we?
Oh yes, there are more lunatics in MMOs per-virtual-capita than most other games or sites I've frequented.
All I did was state that an MMO is more like a hobby, which requires some degree of dedication, work and resources than other games which don't require them and that gaming didn't necessarily have to be a hobby. That brought out those very lunatics.
I didn't state 'gaming isn't a hobby'. Of course it is, my system is sheer tantamount to that fact. Proof positive, so to speak... lolPunkinKatt - Heavens Tear wrote: »I'm going to be bold and very out of character (for me) here and say:
You should know! What's the old saying?... It takes one to know one.
lol, You've been quite out of character a few times in this thread then, and I won't disagree with that. I never said I wasn't one.
lolI post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »Oh yes, there are more lunatics in MMOs per-virtual-capita than most other games or sites I've frequented.
All I did was state that an MMO is more like a hobby, which requires some degree of dedication, work and resources than other games which don't require them and that gaming didn't necessarily have to be a hobby. That brought out those very lunatics.
Aweee I'm sooo soowwwy that I offended you. I guess you are one of those people that take the "game" sooo seriously. Okay I agree it can be a hobby to you..I shall let you have that pride and glory. Good job and you can have my cookie. b:cute
lol0 -
SaintDominic - Sanctuary wrote: »Aweee I'm sooo soowwwy that I offended you. I guess you are one of those people that take the "game" sooo seriously. Okay I agree it can be a hobby to you..I shall let you have that pride and glory. Good job and you can have my cookie. b:cute
lol
Congrats! Glad to see you understood what Michael meant after 3rd or 4th post of explanation. Now you can be an English professor.0 -
Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »lol, You've been quite out of character a few times in this thread then, and I won't disagree with that. I never said I wasn't one.
lol
I don't recall ever calling anyone a name or belittling them in any fashion. I've only defended myself and my position on the subject. I have been sarcastic, but that's not the same thing.
Mirroring is one of the sign's of narcissism. You might want to look that up.There's no such thing as a "Perfect World" full of Jade, diamonds, gold, and other riches and treasures. There is only an imperfect world, with an imperfect society, full of imperfect people, with imperfect idea's about how to be perfectly rich and perfectly perfect. No one cares about being perfectly kind, perfectly fair, or perfectly content.
It's a perfectly sad world.0 -
SaintDominic - Sanctuary wrote: »Aweee I'm sooo soowwwy that I offended you. I guess you are one of those people that take the "game" sooo seriously. Okay I agree it can be a hobby to you..I shall let you have that pride and glory. Good job and you can have my cookie. b:cute
lol
No, not upset at all. I just don't like having incorrect BR misinterpretations of what I have said repeated as a quote. I can blame it on a lack of English skills or intellectual deficiency. Which category would you rather fall into? I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps I should have defaulted you into the latter category.
b:chuckleI post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »No, not upset at all. I just don't like having incorrect BR misinterpretations of what I have said repeated as a quote. I can blame it on a lack of English skills or intellectual deficiency. Which category would you rather fall into? I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps I should have defaulted you into the latter category.
b:chuckle
Translation: You don't like being told you're incorrect about something.
What he is saying here is that the game can be a hobby TO YOU... but it is still just a game.
And you can have my cookie too. I have more.There's no such thing as a "Perfect World" full of Jade, diamonds, gold, and other riches and treasures. There is only an imperfect world, with an imperfect society, full of imperfect people, with imperfect idea's about how to be perfectly rich and perfectly perfect. No one cares about being perfectly kind, perfectly fair, or perfectly content.
It's a perfectly sad world.0 -
oh gosh....flaming....
*ducks and covers*[SIGPIC]http://s51.photobucket.com/albums/f365/okamime/?action=view¤t=colorful.gif[/SIGPIC]
Alts:
Shiome: Psychic 2x
Okami_Sukino: Venomancer 3x
Ayumi_: Assassin 0x0 -
I've never used cash shops, since I don't want to waste my pennies for games and I've done just fine. Cash shopping is not necessary even on pvp server, after all if you're a good player you beat a CSer/oracle user anytime. Of course there are players who are skilled and use CS, they might be hard to beat unless you farm TT for epic gear. b:shocked[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Sig made by me. Seems that the forums change the quality of the picture a bit. b:sad0 -
I have an average understanding of economics and how retailing and merchanting works.
If buying gold "low" and selling it "high" later is "helping" people, then I think it's time to quit the game. It only helps the person I bought the gold from, not the person I sell to. It's taking advantage of people who want whatever it is on sale in the cash shop but can't afford to buy Zen. People like myself. Why would I do that? It's hypocrisy. I have several million in coins. Lot's of hard grinding and selling of equipment and rare pets. I'm still not going to do what you all suggest. Forget it!
Uh, you're not understanding something i think.
With buy low/sell high you're not driving the prices of gold up or anything like that. The buyers do that themselves, not the sellers!
I buy lower gold now, but i won't sell it later on at a ''high price'' so to speak. That's because the gold was already driven up by Demand and not supply due to packs usually. At the time gold skyrockets i will have the cheapest gold available.
In fact, i will sell the gold directly to the person who wants it which means i sold the gold at a price they were willing to pay in that time.
So yes, i was helping them at that point because i provided them with the cheapest gold in that period.0 -
Searing - Dreamweaver wrote: »Uh, you're not understanding something i think.
With buy low/sell high you're not driving the prices of gold up or anything like that. The buyers do that themselves, not the sellers!
I buy lower gold now, but i won't sell it later on at a ''high price'' so to speak. That's because the gold was already driven up by Demand and not supply due to packs usually. At the time gold skyrockets i will have the cheapest gold available.
In fact, i will sell the gold directly to the person who wants it which means i sold the gold at a price they were willing to pay in that time.
So yes, i was helping them at that point because i provided them with the cheapest gold in that period.
Just wanted to make this clear.
Wrong!
Gold sellers set the prices. Gold buyers simply put their bids in hopes of the prices coming down to meet their bid. And if they don't, then they buy the lowest priced gold available listed by the sellers. Just because there is a demand, as you put it, for gold during sales, does not mean sellers have to hike the prices up. They'd sell more if they didn't.
You sold them the gold for the best price on the trade. They paid it because they wanted or needed the gold. You didn't help them by taking more coins from them than what they would have paid if there was no sale. You took advantage of them.
I know how it works. Please don't underestimate my knowledge of the Gold Trade. I'm neither stupid nor blind.There's no such thing as a "Perfect World" full of Jade, diamonds, gold, and other riches and treasures. There is only an imperfect world, with an imperfect society, full of imperfect people, with imperfect idea's about how to be perfectly rich and perfectly perfect. No one cares about being perfectly kind, perfectly fair, or perfectly content.
It's a perfectly sad world.0 -
PunkinKatt - Heavens Tear wrote: »It's slow and tedious, thus why after more than a year, I am only level 70 (and we have tideborn's at 100 already). Which kinda makes a point here, doesn't it?
Tell me about it. I started mine in December for crying out loud....Can you say "ORACLE SPAM?"
To simplify for everybody watching this.....
More people selling gold =More Gold = Lower Prices because of less demand.
Less people selling gold = Less gold = WAY higher prices because of greater demand
Moral of this story?
More people selling gold = Lower prices for gold = lower prices for everything else = large amounts of people being happy.
hooray. 0 -
PunkinKatt - Heavens Tear wrote: »Wrong!
Gold sellers set the prices. Gold buyers simply put their bids in hopes of the prices coming down to meet their bid. And if they don't, then they buy the lowest priced gold available listed by the sellers. Just because there is a demand, as you put it, for gold during sales, does not mean sellers have to hike the prices up. They'd sell more if they didn't.
You sold them the gold for the best price on the trade. They paid it because they wanted or needed the gold. You didn't help them by taking more coins from them than what they would have paid if there was no sale. You took advantage of them.
I know how it works. Please don't underestimate my knowledge of the Gold Trade. I'm neither stupid nor blind.
What happens when packs hit the CS?
You got gold ranging from 350-375 let's say...it gets bought up in minutes. Then you get the 375k-400k range...gets bought up again by buyers. They drive the price up in a few hours at start of packs! Do you think as sooon as packs come everyone removes their gold from sale and automatically drives it up by 30%? No, it gets bought up.
When this happens, the buying prices also quickly follow.
From my perspective, i go into AH and gold is already being bought at 400k+. I did not drive it there, hell, i wasn't even selling the gold in the AH until that point.
And i sell more gold when that happens because the low price is over 400k at that point. Obviously, i won't sell gold at 350k when i got 10 people setting their own price at 400k+ when they're buying. The sellers set my price and nobody else, not even me.
If the sellers wouldn't drive prices up when packs come, i wouldn't even do this because there would be no point.0 -
Searing - Dreamweaver wrote: »What happens when packs hit the CS?
You got gold ranging from 350-375 let's say...it gets bought up in minutes. Then you get the 375k-400k range...gets bought up again by buyers. They drive the price up in a few hours at start of packs! Do you think as sooon as packs come everyone removes their gold from sale and automatically drives it up by 30%? No, it gets bought up.
When this happens, the buying prices also quickly follow.
From my perspective, i go into AH and gold is already being bought at 400k+. I did not drive it there, hell, i wasn't even selling the gold in the AH until that point.
And i sell more gold when that happens because the low price is over 400k at that point. Obviously, i won't sell gold at 350k when i got 10 people setting their own price at 400k+ when they're buying. The sellers set my price and nobody else, not even me.
If the sellers wouldn't drive prices up when packs come, i wouldn't even do this because there would be no point.
What part of "GOLD SELLERS set the prices" did you not understand. Yes, the gold gets bought up, but more can be put back up there for the exact same prices and it will sell too. The sellers do not need to continually hike the gold prices as the gold sells. That's just greed. The buyers buy what's available.
What you are doing is blaming the buyers, or making them responsible, for your choice to raise the price you sell gold for.
EDIT: The lower section on the Gold Trade is the Buyers BIDS. You will note that MOST of those bids are far lower than the prices sellers have their gold set at. THAT's what the buyers are WILLING to pay, it's not often what they ACTUALLY end up paying.There's no such thing as a "Perfect World" full of Jade, diamonds, gold, and other riches and treasures. There is only an imperfect world, with an imperfect society, full of imperfect people, with imperfect idea's about how to be perfectly rich and perfectly perfect. No one cares about being perfectly kind, perfectly fair, or perfectly content.
It's a perfectly sad world.0 -
Dark_Feather - Lost City wrote: »ok, so i've been lurking on the forums lately, and alot of discussion seems to revolve around cashshops. I've read alot that you HAVE to use cashshops if you want to get anywhere in the game.
well, I don't have money for that. Period.
However, I am willing to grind my **** off if thats the case. For me, killing things is what makes it fun. b:chuckle
So my question is:
Is using the cashshop a necessity for getting up in levels, or is grinding sufficient? I understand it would probably take longer that way, but I would love to hear suggestions and whatnot.
You dont need to cash shop at all before lvl 90 for leveling but it will be hard at times to get money to upgrade all your skills tho. Thats really the biggest issue for poor players. Getting a 59 skill to max is like what 6 mil or so from 1-10. Than you have all the other skills that costs over a mil to max ;/
But its mostly enough to sell some mats you get during quests etc in a cat shop for a few hours when u sleep. Can try to buy underpricing stuff and sell it for normal price. Just dont npc valuable crafting mats that drops form mobs and you're normally fine. I remember as i nub i made like 3 mil selling all the oils i got grinding on Dawns Cry island - its a lot of money at lvl 50 b:chuckle
After 90+ you really need to find a good way to make decent money in game if you dont wanna cash shop. You can farm your 90 gear easily if you have friends/guild that's active but you wanna get shards and refines for it AND the demon/sage skill books for your class so you need a lot of money, and just killing mobs wont really help you far with that. Some of the better skills are up to 15-30 mil so ...cant just grind for money.
Also this is pure pve perspective, if you actually wanna start being pvp-active you kinda need to spend a lot more money on gear. Same goes if you wanna hyper-stone or oracle lvl, than you really need to cash shop unless you have some amazing in game trick to make cash.
Once you reach 100+ is easier to make cash, you get rewards from daily BHs and you can also do Nirvana profit runs 3-4 times a day.0 -
PunkinKatt - Heavens Tear wrote: »What part of "GOLD SELLERS set the prices" did you not understand. Yes, the gold gets bought up, but more can be put back up there for the exact same prices and it will sell too. The sellers do not need to continually hike the gold prices as the gold sells. That's just greed. The buyers buy what's available.
What you are doing is blaming the buyers, or making them responsible, for your choice to raise the price you sell gold for.
Like i said, i don't raise the price, i sell to people for whatever they're willing to pay.
Secondly, if all the gold gets bought up only the high gold prices will remain which forces they buyers to buy at higher price as well. You can't expect last gold pieces in AH to be 500k and buyers still buying at 350k.
The Buyers compete with other buyers as well so, if someone wants to buy gold at 350, the next one will go to 355k, next one to 360k and so on. This way the drive the price up for themselves and this happens when there's more demand than supply.
The sellers don't do squat here, buyers compete with each other. If nobody was willing to pay 450k for gold then it wouldn't be 450k now would it. You always have the choice to ignore it.0 -
Searing - Dreamweaver wrote: »Like i said, i don't raise the price, i sell to people for whatever they're willing to pay.
Secondly, if all the gold gets bought up only the high gold prices will remain which forces they buyers to buy at higher price as well. You can't expect last gold pieces in AH to be 500k and buyers still buying at 350k.
The Buyers compete with other buyers as well so, if someone wants to buy gold at 350, the next one will go to 355k, next one to 360k and so on. This way the drive the price up for themselves and this happens when there's more demand than supply.
The sellers don't do squat here, buyers compete with each other. If nobody was willing to pay 450k for gold then it wouldn't be 450k now would it. You always have the choice to ignore it.
Check my edit on the post to which you are replying.
Beyond that. I'm done.
I neither buy nor sell gold. Not since it zoomed from 100k (give or take) to over 300k and higher. And that was the SELLERS!!! Not the buyers. All the buyers were like O.O! WTF?There's no such thing as a "Perfect World" full of Jade, diamonds, gold, and other riches and treasures. There is only an imperfect world, with an imperfect society, full of imperfect people, with imperfect idea's about how to be perfectly rich and perfectly perfect. No one cares about being perfectly kind, perfectly fair, or perfectly content.
It's a perfectly sad world.0 -
The lower section on the Gold Trade is the Buyers BIDS. You will note that MOST of those bids are far lower than the prices sellers have their gold set at. THAT's what the buyers are WILLING to pay, it's not often what they ACTUALLY end up paying.
Those are exactly the people i sell gold to. I sell gold to the highest bidder -> they set their price, not me.All the buyers were like O.O! WTF?
No, not all. If nobody was still willing to buy gold at that price it would drop. Apparently, someone was still buying it so here we are.0 -
if you dont mind playing oldschool then grinding should work out well, you wont get the cash flow that gold traders have but it is enough to get by. I've made it 99 lvls on grinding/ selling gear and only gold traded once.0
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Actually, I'm a Gold buyer. I never sell Gold. And I can personally vouch for the fact that I raise the price of Gold all the time.PunkinKatt - Heavens Tear wrote: »What part of "GOLD SELLERS set the prices" did you not understand. Yes, the gold gets bought up, but more can be put back up there for the exact same prices and it will sell too. The sellers do not need to continually hike the gold prices as the gold sells. That's just greed. The buyers buy what's available.
What you are doing is blaming the buyers, or making them responsible, for your choice to raise the price you sell gold for.
During Pack sales I buy about 350 Gold per day, and in order to get that much I need to out-bid all other buyers. Furthermore, if the bottom seller prices are reasonably close, I'll quite happily buy them out.
It's very common for me to go to the AH, see the top buying offer at something like 400k and the bottom selling offer at something like 410k, but after I leave the top buying offer is now 410k and the bottom selling offer is now 430k. Thus, I've directly raised the price of Gold by being a Gold buyer, and I do that kind of thing all the time.
So really, trying to rewrite the golden rule of basic economics 101 by changing "Supply and demand sets prices" into just "Supply sets prices" seems kinda like wishful thinking. The facts are really clear that the law of supply and demand is still true.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
PWI Merchanting Guides: warrenwolfy.wordpress.com0 -
PunkinKatt - Heavens Tear wrote: »Translation: You don't like being told you're incorrect about something.
What he is saying here is that the game can be a hobby TO YOU... but it is still just a game.
And you can have my cookie too. I have more.
Your logic and comprehension fails you. I'm seriously starting to think you have some sort of reading deficiency.
I don't like being misinterpreted and then misrepresented.
It doesn't matter what he is saying to me because he didn't even understand what I said in the first place.
.PunkinKatt - Heavens Tear wrote: »Wrong!
Gold sellers set the prices. Gold buyers simply put their bids in hopes of the prices coming down to meet their bid.
You have two options when you are either buying or selling gold. One is to sell or buy at a current offer price, this is an instant transfer. The other is to set your own price which may or may not be met. If you are selling perhaps your price is higher than reasonable, perhaps there is gold being offered for sale for cheaper. If you are buying, your offer price may be lower than others.
The market availability of gold and desire for it set the price of gold. The seller can say they want 100000000 coins per gold, but it will only sell for what a gold buyer is actually wiling to pay.
When someone is buying gold at low prices, and then selling when the prices are higher help buffer the system so that gold doesn't shoot up incredibly high. If gold starts becoming overvalued, people start charging real money to purchase and gold traders will sell gold and the price of gold will come back down, or will at least equalize.
If they put restrictions on recycling gold, you would see much higher gold prices.PunkinKatt - Heavens Tear wrote: »EDIT: The lower section on the Gold Trade is the Buyers BIDS. You will note that MOST of those bids are far lower than the prices sellers have their gold set at. THAT's what the buyers are WILLING to pay, it's not often what they ACTUALLY end up paying.
Obviously you've never used Gold Trading. I always put a high offer to buy, I ignore the sell prices. I always get my gold.I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0
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