Cashshopping: Required?

1235

Comments

  • Born_Free - Harshlands
    Born_Free - Harshlands Posts: 977 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Actually, I'm a Gold buyer. I never sell Gold. And I can personally vouch for the fact that I raise the price of Gold all the time.

    During Pack sales I buy about 350 Gold per day, and in order to get that much I need to out-bid all other buyers. Furthermore, if the bottom seller prices are reasonably close, I'll quite happily buy them out.

    It's very common for me to go to the AH, see the top buying offer at something like 400k and the bottom selling offer at something like 410k, but after I leave the top buying offer is now 410k and the bottom selling offer is now 430k. Thus, I've directly raised the price of Gold by being a Gold buyer, and I do that kind of thing all the time.

    So really, trying to rewrite the golden rule of basic economics 101 by changing "Supply and demand sets prices" into just "Supply sets prices" seems kinda like wishful thinking. The facts are really clear that the law of supply and demand is still true.

    x3 Someone gets it...thank you.
  • Solandri - Heavens Tear
    Solandri - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Let's keep it civil folks. People are always unwilling to admit they might be wrong, and if you antagonize them it just makes them dig in deeper. In the grand scheme of things, this is just a game, and this is just a forum. The opportunity for elucidation or education is more valuable than taking cheap shots.
    PunkinKatt - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    If buying gold "low" and selling it "high" later is "helping" people, then I think it's time to quit the game. It only helps the person I bought the gold from, not the person I sell to. It's taking advantage of people who want whatever it is on sale in the cash shop but can't afford to buy Zen. People like myself. Why would I do that? It's hypocrisy. I have several million in coins. Lot's of hard grinding and selling of equipment and rare pets. I'm still not going to do what you all suggest. Forget it!
    That is your right to do as you wish. However, the market price for an item is not what you as an individual think it should be. It is whatever the market as a whole things it should be. Or more specifically, what the current highest-paying buyer is willing to pay for it (assuming there's a seller willing to sell it for that amount). So if you think gold is only worth 100k but someone else is willing to pay 400k, well, then gold is worth 400k regardless of what you think.

    This is how the market makes supply match demand. If there's insufficient supply or too much demand, it raises the price to decrease demand and to create an incentive to increase supply. If there's too much supply or too little demand, it lowers the price to increase demand and to discourage more supply. If you force the price of gold to 100k when the actual market price is 400k, you create more demand than supply (a lot more), and you end up with waiting lists to buy gold.

    So just because you think a certain price point is "taking advantage" of other people, that doesn't mean it is. If other people are freely willing to pay that price, and (more importantly) there are other sellers willing to sell for a lower price if demand doesn't meet supply, then the market price is the fair price for the item. The buyer pays that much for the item because it's worth more than that to them. The seller sells it for that much because the item is worth less than that to them. Both sides of the deal come out ahead, neither side is being taken advantage of.
    And so, you single-handedly effected prices because you removed your cat shops? >_>
    Can we say "narcissism"?
    This game has been a tremendous learning experience for me. The economics courses I took in college were rather blah and boring. But this game gave me a hands-on chance to experience a real economy in action, make tweaks to my prices, and observe how other people responded. So I was pretty anal about monitoring the prices on all my competitors and tracking my sales volume (and if I could, their sales volume).

    At its heyday, my DQ shop was clearing ~500k profit per day. I was pretty adamant about charging fair prices and except for dull claws kept my profit margin at about 15%. Occasionally I'd get into a pricing war and that would drop as low as 5%, but mostly it was around 15%. It's been a while so I don't recall exact pricing, but with those numbers it works out to over 1200 DQs sold per day. You only need 60 to expand your bank, so my shop was in effect completing 20+ people's bank expansion quests per day. Since I ran the shop for nearly a year, that's several thousand characters' banks which were expanded with the help of my shop.

    So yeah, when I shut it down, it made an impact on the market prices. Other people have since filled the vacuum, which I admit I hadn't expected at the time. But in hindsight it makes perfect sense. My departure created a market opportunity, which other people detected and filled. It's actually quite humbling - the opposite of what you're accusing me of - you think you're important because you're giving people the best prices and making a ton of sales. But within a month or two of quitting you've been totally replaced, like an interchangeable cog in the machine.

    When I started playing this game, I had many of the same misconceptions about economics as you did. I played my first ~4 months without cat shopping, and only first did it as part of a test to see how much I could make per hour grinding. Like you, I was angry at sellers for charging exorbitant prices and taking advantage of people.

    But cat shopping for myself was an eye-opening experience. The sellers are in the same boat as the buyers. Unless you're holding a near-monopoly, you have virtulally no influence over the market prices. Just like it can be hard to find something for sale at a low price, it is hard to sell something at a high price. Just like buyers feel powerless to lower prices, sellers feel powerless to raise prices (if you do, your sales volume drops like a rock, unless you're holding a near-monopoly).

    The laws of supply and demand perfectly mirror each other. Every gold sale is also a coin sale. All that matters in the end is that both the buyer and seller complete the transaction because they both feel they are coming out better for it. If one feels they are being ripped off by a trade, they simply do not make the trade.
  • SaintDominic - Sanctuary
    SaintDominic - Sanctuary Posts: 284 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »
    Wow, you are thick as a brick and just wrong again. Your logic and comprehension fails you. I'm seriously starting to think you have some sort of reading deficiency.

    I don't like being misinterpreted and then misrepresented.

    It doesn't matter what he is saying to me because he didn't even understand what I said in the first place.

    .



    You just proved you do not have a clue about how Gold Trading works here.

    You have two options when you are either buying or selling gold. One is to sell or buy at a current offer price, this is an instant transfer. The other is to set your own price which may or may not be met. If you are selling perhaps your price is higher than reasonable, perhaps there is gold being offered for sale for cheaper. If you are buying, your offer price may be lower than others.

    The market availability of gold and desire for it set the price of gold. The seller can say they want 100000000 coins per gold, but it will only sell for what a gold buyer is actually wiling to pay.

    When someone is buying gold at low prices, and then selling when the prices are higher help buffer the system so that gold doesn't shoot up incredibly high. If gold starts becoming overvalued, people start charging real money to purchase and gold traders will sell gold and the price of gold will come back down, or will at least equalize.

    If they put restrictions on recycling gold, you would see much higher gold prices.





    Obviously you've never used Gold Trading. I always put a high offer to buy, I ignore the sell prices. I always get my gold. You fail.

    Of course you always get your gold because some gold sellers are in a hurry to gain money. I, for one, am one of them, so you can thank me and the others for that. Also I understood your first post. You call pwi a hobby, and I call it a game. THAT'S IT. There's no right and wrong about that. Instead of calling people illiterate, try taking in other people's opinions other than your own, and accept that you may be wrong. I admit that I may be wrong sometimes, but you, however.....
  • Rillien - Heavens Tear
    Rillien - Heavens Tear Posts: 569 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    ^^Solandri speaks the truth b:shutup
  • WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary
    WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary Posts: 1,686 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    When I started playing this game, I had many of the same misconceptions about economics as you did. I played my first ~4 months without cat shopping, and only first did it as part of a test to see how much I could make per hour grinding. Like you, I was angry at sellers for charging exorbitant prices and taking advantage of people.
    I've shared the same experiences. A year ago I believed things like, "you need money to make money", because that's what everybody believes and it seems to make sense. I also believed that the greedy rich could easily bring the poor to their knees by buying out all competitors and jacking up prices. Again, I believed that because that's what everybody believes and it seems to make sense.

    But my experiences running a cat-shop have really educated me. It's bizarre, but a silly little video game shop has taught me more about economic reality than 37 years of life and a university education, even though I thought I was paying attention all this time!

    First, I learned that making a little money into a little more money is much easier and faster than making a lot of money into a little bit more than a lot of money. But people disregard somebody who turns 100k into 200k overnight and only pay attention to the people who are turning 100million into 105million. What I didn't realize was that both are the same skill, and if you can't do the first one then you'll fail at the second one too, no matter how much starting money you have.

    I also learned that as much as you might try to, you can't force people to buy or sell at the prices you want. If you buy out a competitor thinking you're going to corner the market, all you've done is helped your competitor. Likewise if I bid up Gold thinking that people will then be forced to buy from my cat-shop, all that happens is I end up with a bunch of Gold that I paid too much for.

    Or in other words, I learned that while I can nudge / persuade / lean on / pressure the market, I can't control it, and that if I try to control it people band together and fight back and I end up paying the price.

    But probably the most important thing I've learned is that the vast majority of people are emotional about money. They think with their hearts and hold onto whatever beliefs about money and economics that fits with their world-view. Not even basic math calculations that might prove a certain deal is better than another is enough to convince them to change their beliefs. And I am guilty of this in my real life. Seeing what I've seen in the game and realizing I'm making the exact same mistakes in my own life with my real life finances has made me start making some serious changes.
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  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    SaintDominic - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Of course you always get your gold because some gold sellers are in a hurry to gain money. I, for one, am one of them, so you can thank me and the others for that. Also I understood your first post. You call pwi a hobby, and I call it a game. THAT'S IT. There's no right and wrong about that. Instead of calling people illiterate, try taking in other people's opinions other than your own, and accept that you may be wrong. I admit that I may be wrong sometimes, but you, however.....

    Thank you.

    And still, that's not what I said. I am very specific on my choice of words to convey what I am trying to say. You got it wrong again, however you're a lot closer than you were before. I give up, that doesn't really matter.

    When I am wrong I have absolutely no problem admitting so.

    Edit: example here:http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=8127572&postcount=45
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • SaintDominic - Sanctuary
    SaintDominic - Sanctuary Posts: 284 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »
    Thank you.

    And still, that's not what I said. I am very specific on my choice of words to convey what I am trying to say. You got it wrong again, however you're a lot closer than you were before. I give up, that doesn't really matter.

    When I am wrong I have absolutely no problem admitting so.

    Edit: example here:http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=8127572&postcount=45

    Perfect World is in fact an MMORPG, so it's a game obviously. I'm sorry how do I have to make it even more clearer to you.

    Perfect World is a MMORPG developed by Beijing Perfect World Co.,Ltd. and published by Cubinet Interactive Sdn. Bhd. Perfect World is set in the world of Pangu where three major tribes, Humans, Winged Elves and Werebeasts coexist. It is a world of magic and high fantasy featuring the Chinese creation myth as its backdrop and leveraging on a rich and diverse oriental setting.

    I got that info from {http://www.perfectworld.com.my/}; it's in plain English
  • Nightstalk - Raging Tide
    Nightstalk - Raging Tide Posts: 110 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    SaintDominic - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Perfect World is in fact an MMORPG, so it's a game obviously. I'm sorry how do I have to make it even more clearer to you.

    Perfect World is a MMORPG developed by Beijing Perfect World Co.,Ltd. and published by Cubinet Interactive Sdn. Bhd. Perfect World is set in the world of Pangu where three major tribes, Humans, Winged Elves and Werebeasts coexist. It is a world of magic and high fantasy featuring the Chinese creation myth as its backdrop and leveraging on a rich and diverse oriental setting.

    I got that info from {http://www.perfectworld.com.my/}; it's in plain English

    And yet Perfect World THE GAME ...can be a hobby if enough time and money is spent into it. Just like anything. b:cute
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  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Nightstalk - Raging Tide wrote: »
    And yet Perfect World THE GAME ...can be a hobby if enough time and money is spent into it. Just like anything. b:cute

    He has troubles interpreting logic puzzles, which is basically how I worded my original statement.
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • NonameWiz - Sanctuary
    NonameWiz - Sanctuary Posts: 506 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    In conclusion, to answer the OP's question: CashShoping Required?

    It is a No. b:kiss
    Rank 8 Wizard: 1% farm b:shutup
  • PunkinKatt - Heavens Tear
    PunkinKatt - Heavens Tear Posts: 249 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »
    Wow, you are thick as a brick and just wrong again. Your logic and comprehension fails you. I'm seriously starting to think you have some sort of reading deficiency.

    I don't like being misinterpreted and then misrepresented.

    It doesn't matter what he is saying to me because he didn't even understand what I said in the first place.

    .



    You have two options when you are either buying or selling gold. One is to sell or buy at a current offer price, this is an instant transfer. The other is to set your own price which may or may not be met. If you are selling perhaps your price is higher than reasonable, perhaps there is gold being offered for sale for cheaper. If you are buying, your offer price may be lower than others.

    The market availability of gold and desire for it set the price of gold. The seller can say they want 100000000 coins per gold, but it will only sell for what a gold buyer is actually wiling to pay.

    When someone is buying gold at low prices, and then selling when the prices are higher help buffer the system so that gold doesn't shoot up incredibly high. If gold starts becoming overvalued, people start charging real money to purchase and gold traders will sell gold and the price of gold will come back down, or will at least equalize.

    If they put restrictions on recycling gold, you would see much higher gold prices.





    Obviously you've never used Gold Trading. I always put a high offer to buy, I ignore the sell prices. I always get my gold.

    Insults don't help your case any. Just makes you look more ignorant and narcissistic.
    And, yes I have used the gold trade. I bought gold and sold it (what I earned from the free zen offers). I sold it for far lower than the other sellers. It sold with 5 minutes of my putting it up.

    I have good reading comprehension skills. May not be perfect, but very good. You however, well, I won't stoop to your level and go there.

    Now I'm done. My friends can find me on the Bismarck server of another popular mmo.

    kthxbai

    b:bye
    There's no such thing as a "Perfect World" full of Jade, diamonds, gold, and other riches and treasures. There is only an imperfect world, with an imperfect society, full of imperfect people, with imperfect idea's about how to be perfectly rich and perfectly perfect. No one cares about being perfectly kind, perfectly fair, or perfectly content.
    It's a perfectly sad world.
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    PunkinKatt - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Insults don't help your case any. Just makes you look more ignorant and narcissistic.
    And, yes I have used the gold trade. I bought gold and sold it (what I earned from the free zen offers). I sold it for far lower than the other sellers. It sold with 5 minutes of my putting it up.

    I have good reading comprehension skills. May not be perfect, but very good. You however, well, I won't stoop to your level and go there.

    Now I'm done. My friends can find me on the Bismarck server of another popular mmo.

    kthxbai

    b:bye

    Ignorant? Hardly. Narcissistic? Hardly. Opinionated? Definitely. Intolerant? Only when someone incessantly repeats a failed position without an honest foundation.

    And if you had noticed, I actually edited my post because I realized I was being a bit harsh, and instead of possibly recognizing that I did clean out my post, you added it back in so you could actually have a response to my post instead of the valid points.

    Perhaps my initial posting was correct and I was silly to edit it out. Thank you for the insight.

    b:pleased
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • PunkinKatt - Heavens Tear
    PunkinKatt - Heavens Tear Posts: 249 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »
    Ignorant? Hardly. Narcissistic? Hardly. Opinionated? Definitely. Intolerant? Only when someone incessantly repeats a failed position without an honest foundation.

    And if you had noticed, I actually edited my post because I realized I was being a bit harsh, and instead of possibly recognizing that I did clean out my post, you added it back in so you could actually have a response to my post instead of the valid points, which obviously you don't.

    Perhaps my initial posting was correct and I was silly to edit it out. Thank you for the insight.

    b:pleased

    Your ignorance shows again. If you will notice at the bottom of my post, under my siggy, I also edited my post. I did not edit my response, just added your crude comment back in. I doubt your reason for taking it out. I believe you did so so you wouldn't look so bad to other readers.
    There's no such thing as a "Perfect World" full of Jade, diamonds, gold, and other riches and treasures. There is only an imperfect world, with an imperfect society, full of imperfect people, with imperfect idea's about how to be perfectly rich and perfectly perfect. No one cares about being perfectly kind, perfectly fair, or perfectly content.
    It's a perfectly sad world.
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    PunkinKatt - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Your ignorance shows again. If you will notice at the bottom of my post, under my siggy, I also edited my post. I did not edit my response, just added your crude comment back in. I doubt your reason for taking it out. I believe you did so so you wouldn't look so bad to other readers.

    I honestly don't care what other readers think. I actually removed it because as much as you'd like to think that I do nothing but troll, I would have liked a valid response. Why else would I post anything more than what I removed? *shrug*

    Your re-edit of my quote is just funny. I should have left it. b:bye
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • PunkinKatt - Heavens Tear
    PunkinKatt - Heavens Tear Posts: 249 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »
    I honestly don't care what other readers think. I actually removed it because as much as you'd like to think that I do nothing but troll, I would have liked a valid response. Why else would I post anything more than what I removed? *shrug*

    Your re-edit of my quote is just funny. I should have left it. b:bye

    Yadda, yadda, yadda...

    Ho hum...

    /yawn
    There's no such thing as a "Perfect World" full of Jade, diamonds, gold, and other riches and treasures. There is only an imperfect world, with an imperfect society, full of imperfect people, with imperfect idea's about how to be perfectly rich and perfectly perfect. No one cares about being perfectly kind, perfectly fair, or perfectly content.
    It's a perfectly sad world.
  • __Fluffy__ - Heavens Tear
    __Fluffy__ - Heavens Tear Posts: 258 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    when i was your level, all i did was quests... i never grinded (ground? grinded? whats the past tense of grind? :O)
    When you are level 40, i suggest doing bounty hunter. it is a great way to level fast and easy. Unless you are a veno, of course. venos have to keep their pet's level up too, so if i do bh's all the time, i outlevel my pet and he falls behind. when that happens, i go into cube of fate (room 3) to level my pets...

    Back on topic: anyway, i suggest questing/grinding till yr lvl 40. b:shy
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  • __Fluffy__ - Heavens Tear
    __Fluffy__ - Heavens Tear Posts: 258 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    haha whoops, wrong thread... how did that happen? :O
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  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    PunkinKatt - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Yadda, yadda, yadda...

    Ho hum...

    /yawn

    See ya on the Bismark server. Oh wait, no I won't.

    b:bye
    __Fluffy__ - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    haha whoops, wrong thread... how did that happen? :O

    I think that can happen when a thread is merged, or if a thread is hidden by a mod then actually deleted.
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  • __Fluffy__ - Heavens Tear
    __Fluffy__ - Heavens Tear Posts: 258 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    oh, pssshhh... not wrong thread... silly me...

    not enough caffiene today >.<
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  • ElctrcLndLdy - Lost City
    ElctrcLndLdy - Lost City Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    lol if you want to run dungeons and grind the game is free, but this is boring as ****
    note cash shoppers will do dungeons and grind faster than you

    if you want to pvp or level up fast or have decent gear you will need to cash shop
  • Alliptica - Raging Tide
    Alliptica - Raging Tide Posts: 1,545 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    nah dude u dotn have to cahsshop i got to lvl 76 without cash shopping. but its really frustrating to lvl now.
    -retired-

    now playing megaten and...Forsaken World ;)
  • PunkinKatt - Heavens Tear
    PunkinKatt - Heavens Tear Posts: 249 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »
    See ya on the Bismark server. Oh wait, no I won't.

    b:bye

    It's Bismarck. Can't even spell when the word is right there already.

    Last response from me.

    You have a problem with people disagreeing with you. You can't accept it when people do. You have to make a huge to-do about it and get crude and insulting. This is why I keep bringing up narcissism. It's a classic symptom.

    You say you are opinionated... that is not necessarily a good thing. But you are entitled to your opinions... but likewise, so am I. No amount of insulting me or being crass or cruel will change my opinion so that I am in agreement with you. It won't happen.

    And you bore me!

    I'll go this far, then I am gone. I agree to disagree with you. End of conversation.
    There's no such thing as a "Perfect World" full of Jade, diamonds, gold, and other riches and treasures. There is only an imperfect world, with an imperfect society, full of imperfect people, with imperfect idea's about how to be perfectly rich and perfectly perfect. No one cares about being perfectly kind, perfectly fair, or perfectly content.
    It's a perfectly sad world.
  • Come_Hither - Lost City
    Come_Hither - Lost City Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    PunkinKatt - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    It's a GAME, NOT a job!!! >_>

    Games are for leisure, jobs are 8 hours a day.

    Games don't pay people (unless they work for the company that runs them). JOBS pay people. So, a job gets dedication... a game gets spare time.

    I expect a game to entertain me, not aggravate me or require ungodly amounts of my time to get anywhere.

    You might want to look into getting a life.
    Sorry to sound crude, but geeze!

    What she said. And yeah it sounds crude but it is true. Hell can you take this money outside the game and pay rent. If so let me know how. I am a C-shopper and I am not grinding all this time for in game coins. I Have things to do with real people ( not that you all are not real) but socializing face to face with friends and family. My CS money falls under "entertainment" Like cable.
  • PunkinKatt - Heavens Tear
    PunkinKatt - Heavens Tear Posts: 249 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    So, in conclusion, considering the newest failure of a daily quest, the answer to the question asked in the subject of this thread is...

    No! (surprised that Old Punky said that?)

    BUT... (yep, there's one of those "but's")

    If you want to keep up with those who cash shop (I'm talking about hypers and other advantage giving items), then the answer is yes, you'll need to cash shop. Coin making is easy enough by just grinding (of course we got cheated out of 20% of our potential profit from DQ items). Then add merchanting on top of that, making coins isn't the problem. It's slower than selling gold, but... oh well. The problem is falling behind everyone who cash shops and, in effect, power levels their characters to endgame levels.

    Thank you PWE, Dev's, PWB, and everyone else who makes those decisions. Punky will stay at level 70 for quite a long time.

    b:thanks b:victory b:bye
    There's no such thing as a "Perfect World" full of Jade, diamonds, gold, and other riches and treasures. There is only an imperfect world, with an imperfect society, full of imperfect people, with imperfect idea's about how to be perfectly rich and perfectly perfect. No one cares about being perfectly kind, perfectly fair, or perfectly content.
    It's a perfectly sad world.
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    And even power levelers fall behind people that started playing in 2008.

    Yep, a lot of it has to do with when you started and how much time you put in. For the godly amount of coin it would take to catch up to even me: they deserve it! Those few that pay the big bucks are the ones actually supporting the rest of us. Some people are just impatient and want +12 end game gear today without having to lift a finger for it. The grass is always greener for someone else and as long as the game makes profits: there will be more that we want and can't have added.

    The more you make: the more you waste. I see so many people wearing Archangel's Sleeves with 2 sockets and Immaculate shards. For the same cost: They could probably get more survivability and m/s out of Sleeves of the Sea Captain. Same with Devil's Cape of Ares vs Archangel's Tunic. I think the Acrobatic Pants already have more survivability than the Archangel's Wrap, and the Warsoul of Heaven hat sells for under 20m. TT99 weapons are very decent and much cheaper than they used to be. I've paid more to upgrade from 80-90 than you can buy 99 for. The Trophy Mode cape from Eden isn't too hard to get for ~1m and is decent. Great ornaments are becoming very common (cheap) as well.
    Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
  • Fist_Mama - Harshlands
    Fist_Mama - Harshlands Posts: 237 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    simple answer:YES
  • Searing - Dreamweaver
    Searing - Dreamweaver Posts: 47 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Fist_Mama - Harshlands wrote: »
    simple answer:YES

    It's also the wrong answer.
  • Fist_Mama - Harshlands
    Fist_Mama - Harshlands Posts: 237 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    no its not the wrong answer lets c u own some land on the map without charging any zhen at all
  • Sacredxstar - Heavens Tear
    Sacredxstar - Heavens Tear Posts: 916 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Fist_Mama - Harshlands wrote: »
    no its not the wrong answer lets c u own some land on the map without charging any zen at all

    Fixed.

    This is actually very dependent on when you started the game. If you started in 2008 like someone said previously, it is very possible to own land on the map without charging zen. This is possible because back then everything was much, much cheaper than how it is now.
    I call it how I see it.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Thanks Santacruz! :D
  • Searing - Dreamweaver
    Searing - Dreamweaver Posts: 47 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Fist_Mama - Harshlands wrote: »
    no its not the wrong answer lets c u own some land on the map without charging any zhen at all

    ...what does owning land have anything to do with it?

    I'll bite -> I am in a TW faction, we do own land and after a crapton of TWs i've only met maybe 10-12 or so people i absolutely cannot kill by myself because their gear is like +10 average. I can compete with everyone else toe to toe (got some problems with barbs occasionally....but who doesn't). Money spent so far? 0$.

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