Clerics : stop buffing everybody you find

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Comments

  • Purge - Raging Tide
    Purge - Raging Tide Posts: 69 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I have not seen one Raging Tide cleric even post in this thread.

    You missed my posts? b:cry
  • Skratz - Heavens Tear
    Skratz - Heavens Tear Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    my post keep not quoting :(

    this is nbizarre and frustratin
  • KataVeno - Raging Tide
    KataVeno - Raging Tide Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    my post keep not quoting :(

    this is nbizarre and frustratin

    I think this is a problem of quotes inside quotes.
    You should try to erase them... i think. ;)
  • Aadi - Lost City
    Aadi - Lost City Posts: 4,449 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Take out the apostrophes and smart quotes. Then it will work.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "aadi is a forum ninja, always there, skirting thru the shadows... striking with quick posts while you are distracted by your own" -Alexeno(kin)
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  • KataVeno - Raging Tide
    KataVeno - Raging Tide Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    You come in here complaining about US buff
    no i don't.
    we are fully aware of when not to and when to.
    most certainly.

    We know more about playing this class than you will ever know
    you cannot say that until you know each character i played and for how long.

    if you have problems with clerics on your sever take it up with them.
    That is what i do but forums is a good way to discuss of hard things.
    The game is really not.
    I have not seen one Raging Tide cleric even post in this thread.
    I don't know and it does absolutely not matter.
    it is only those low lvl 20 like yourself that go around buffing to make them selves usefull.
    Mostly true, although i had already seen a really bad minded high level cleric.
    We higher lvl clerics don't do this as it going out of our way and waste of time.
    Don't tell us how to play our roles
    I am certainlely not doing this.
    If you think this way i apologise for not having been enough clear.

    and I don't care if you played cleric or not you still don't know enough btw can you prove it if you want I can post an SS of my Veno lvl 54 more than twice the lvl you are.
    This is not a question of beeing high level cleric nor being higher level veno.
    Absolutely out of concern.
    you want to take this up with some do it in game not in this forum
    Why should not I ? Because you don't want ?
    I am sorry but if this thread is pointless for you then don't post.
    Contrary to what you seams thinking. There are poeple interested but their replies are among a lot of totally unuseful posts.
    as it serves no purpose and it isn't being constructive.
    Your thought. I am the proof there are poeple who doesn't agree with this.

    We have talked this over to death if ever did a search for it.
    I am somewhat exhausted to reply each time someone come here to tell my thread is pointless and that i should go away. But i still continue.
    Why ?
    Because this thread is not for them.

    Trolling i don't think you know exactly what that is but you are doing that as well.
    I had just posted the forum's definition and told it was not my intentions and you still say it is ?
    Must i restart doing a communication lesson ?
    If i say i am not trolling then i am not.
    If you think it is, the problem is not me or you but a misunderstanding between us.
    Half fault for each one.
  • Mendolin - Sanctuary
    Mendolin - Sanctuary Posts: 1,092 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    i think why some people are taking offense to your thread kataveno is because as clerics (especially those that have been playing this game a long time like i have and clerics that have mastered their class) have heard many complaints throughout the years... and no matter what- at some point, we feel hopeless. we can not please everyone nor should we try to and i could probably post 100 other threads in these forums that complain that we dont buff lol


    as a cleric we get blamed for a lot of things because our job is to keep people alive and i am sure there are a lot of clerics that feel underappreciated with all that we are asked to do- the negativity in your thread does not help this situation


    i will agree on one thing said in this thread though... i know that you dont want to hear it, but you need to say it in game if you have a problem with it. whether they give you attitude because you say something about it- o well... i bet you they wont do it again and will start to pay more attention. not all clerics will check forums, but if you seek change then start at the root of the problem.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • KataVeno - Raging Tide
    KataVeno - Raging Tide Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I don't see any posts declaring the opposite of what Mala said. Only that Mala neglected to mention that those would be the actions of experienced clerics. New players of any class will make mistakes when they first start playing and the vast majority won't spend a great deal of time trawling through forums to weedle out every little tip on how and when to use their skills (or indeed when not to use them!). The best way for them to learn is for you to explain it to them...for each and every new person that makes the mistake. Indeed, you can also start an informative forum thread, but think carefully about the title - "Clerics: stop buffing everybody you find" will only lead to you being shot down in flames!

    hmm... seams you're right !
    although i was pretty sure... guess is is my mistake.
    I apologise to Mala.

    I confused with the post of Candie - Raging Tide #36
    where he says he doesn't care of powders when buffing.
    But well. I don't think this is useless either.

    As for the remaining of what you said, i completly agree.
    Well this was supposed to be an informative thread... sort of but as i said, i am sometime really pationate :)
    But i think this is not a reason good enough to flame like too many here :)
  • KataVeno - Raging Tide
    KataVeno - Raging Tide Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    i think why some people are taking offense to your thread kataveno is because as clerics (especially those that have been playing this game a long time like i have and clerics that have mastered their class) have heard many complaints throughout the years... and no matter what- at some point, we feel hopeless. we can not please everyone nor should we try to and i could probably post 100 other threads in these forums that complain that we dont buff lol
    I agree and i do know how awfull some poeple may be when they die in a boss fight, blaming the cleric who did not healed enough, the mage who got aggro, and the barb who lost it ! :/
    as a cleric we get blamed for a lot of things because our job is to keep people alive and i am sure there are a lot of clerics that feel underappreciated with all that we are asked to do- the negativity in your thread does not help this situation
    That is why i keep posting to answer every player who think this way.
    Aside from spam ones.

    i will agree on one thing said in this thread though... i know that you dont want to hear it, but you need to say it in game if you have a problem with it. whether they give you attitude because you say something about it- o well... i bet you they wont do it again and will start to pay more attention. not all clerics will check forums, but if you seek change then start at the root of the problem.
    I don't know why you think i will not be happy to read this as it is exactly what i always do.
    But again, a forum is better when it comes to discuss. It is made for this.
    ;)
  • Mendolin - Sanctuary
    Mendolin - Sanctuary Posts: 1,092 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I don't know why you think i will not be happy to read this as it is exactly what i always do.
    But again, a forum is better when it comes to discuss. It is made for this.
    ;)

    i just dont see what there is to discuss lol you are right... clerics should pay more attention when they buff people but people live and learn, we are human- we make mistakes lol especially at low levels.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • KataVeno - Raging Tide
    KataVeno - Raging Tide Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    i just dont see what there is to discuss lol you are right... clerics should pay more attention when they buff people but people live and learn, we are human- we make mistakes lol especially at low levels.
    Agreed :)


    I will make a little summary...

    The general question is "why could not we ask before buffing ?".
    I wanted some arguments.

    My point is some players don't even think there might be a question here.

    Until now there were 3 main arguments to answer this question :

    1 ) language.
    Many players do not speak english or really bad.
    Example, i like when someone ask me to team before sending the invite. We can then discuss about the reasons and about our levels before teaming.
    But.
    What if that person have no other way to say it than sending the invite ?
    True and i think it might be a problem here too.

    2 ) bothersome.
    Yes, it is. Asking each one is bothersome.
    I agree.
    But as is said, i do it.
    This is my way of doing and i don't plan on telling everybody to do the same :)

    3 ) Sometimes not able to ask or answer.
    I mean. If someone is soloing a boss. What is the use of asking when the player can't reply !
    There is no good answer. So the cleric buffs and it is fine.
    Because like someone said in this thread :
    99% of buffed poeple is more happyness in the world :)
    There might be a mistake of course... especially if it is me since i like to solo bosses unbuffed.
    But this is when communication becomes highly important so there are no clash for this issue.

    This is a game, there are no reason to flame on anyone or anything.
    Since 3 years, i reported unrespectful players twice and each time it was a major clash.
  • MystiMonk - Sanctuary
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary Posts: 4,286 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    no i don't.
    Yes you do sorry but that is the truth





    you cannot say that until you know each character i played and for how long.
    I don't need to play each class to understand it and that would take like 5 or 10 years to get through all of them at a casual pace.


    That is what i do but forums is a good way to discuss of hard things.
    The game is really not.
    Then keep it there don't bring it here.We heard enough.




    Mostly true, although i had already seen a really bad minded high level cleric.
    That is on your server not mine.





    This is not a question of beeing high level cleric nor being higher level veno.
    Absolutely out of concern.
    This is to being into question of higher lvl.

    Why should not I ? Because you don't want ?
    I am sorry but if this thread is pointless for you then don't post.
    Contrary to what you seams thinking. There are poeple interested but their replies are among a lot of totally unuseful posts.
    That is because you made this thread.

    Your thought. I am the proof there are poeple who doesn't agree with this.
    That is just you being you.


    I am somewhat exhausted to reply each time someone come here to tell my thread is pointless and that i should go away. But i still continue.
    Why ?
    Because this thread is not for them.
    That is becasue you haven't done enough research on the matter this has even been discussed in General Discussion as you haven't been here long enough.


    I had just posted the forum's definition and told it was not my intentions and you still say it is ?
    Must i restart doing a communication lesson ?
    If i say i am not trolling then i am not.
    If you think it is, the problem is not me or you but a misunderstanding between us.
    Half fault for each one.
    I am not even going to bother dealing with this.

    Let see 10 posts possibly only in the Cleric forum none in the Veno forum and you are recently new to this board.Yeap except for 2.http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/search.php?searchid=29406792
    Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.
  • KataVeno - Raging Tide
    KataVeno - Raging Tide Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    so...
    you continue to say you know more than me what i think ?
    you continue to say i should talk in game and not in the forum, in my thread ?
    you continue to say you know my knowledge of this game without knowing anything about me ?
    you continue to say this is a mater of character level ?
    you continue to think my entry date here is a proof of anything ?

    did you forget this thread was not about just me and that you were not everybody ?
    "we heard enough" ? says who ?

    Well...
    Suit yourself.
    You can think what you want.
    But this thread has a purpose and you continue to be out of it.
    Until now i was comprehensive but it seams not enough.


    please, if you have nothing regarding this thread to say, then don't say anything.
    I never forced someone to come here.
  • MystiMonk - Sanctuary
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary Posts: 4,286 Arc User
    edited March 2010
  • KataVeno - Raging Tide
    KataVeno - Raging Tide Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited March 2010


    Ok.
    This is a valuable reply though it is again out of the subject.
    Yes there are other threads. I know.
    But maybe you don't know : reviving old threads is forbidden.
  • MystiMonk - Sanctuary
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary Posts: 4,286 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    You don't revive them you just read them and we know all about this as from those previous threads.I have been posting on gaming boards since 2002 and learned my way around them.We a fully aware of this and doesn't to be repeated again.
    Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.
  • KataVeno - Raging Tide
    KataVeno - Raging Tide Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    You don't revive them you just read them and we know all about this as from those previous threads.I have been posting on gaming boards since 2002 and learned my way around them.We a fully aware of this and doesn't to be repeated again.

    I understand what you say. But this thread was certainly not for advanced players. This was for those who don't know and for those who think they are alone in the game universe.

    And of course i have never seen a newcomer read all thread from the start of the forum to learn what are the common problems. That would be insane !

    So yes, when a common subject opens up that might make some angry.
    But that will always happen and i would add : it must be so !

    This is not like a thread to learn where is the celestial sprite...
    You will not get what you want by searching old threads.
    This thread is made for poeple to talk... at least if they want to.
    So obviouly... it is mainly for newcomers. :)
  • ExELFine - Heavens Tear
    ExELFine - Heavens Tear Posts: 362 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Look, if you don't understand, fine.
    But if you have nothing to say in either way then get away, this thread is not for you.

    Well yes, I do understand.

    I understand you feel kind of frustrated and you thought "geez, it's so boring,hey, why not pick on the clerics, it's fun in game and in the forums"

    so you come in here and start a stupid thread.

    You knew very well you were starting a flame war. And in that, you are wrong.

    Some people had some good points to put but your spams don't help the thread.
    Again, if you disagre and don't want to argue then post nothing.

    Very true, but what did you reply to the people with the good points? Stupid fallacies is all you can offer, not even logic arguments.

    This is a warning. The first and the last.
    Forums have rules, you have to respect that, even if you don't respect other's thought.

    A warning? of what???You speak like a 10-year old. I've followed this thread and you are getting more and more ridiculous.

    Know that it is you breaking the rules: you're supposed to be over 13 to play this game and to post in here.

    Now go run to your mama, she's got warm milk and cookies for you. And tomorrow, start learning how to play your veno properly and leave clerics alone. You're not worth a single buff, heal or rez... good luck.
    [SIGPIC]http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff122/dart2005/PWI/july05.jpg[/SIGPIC]
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  • aryannamage
    aryannamage Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Closing this because of flaming and on request of OP.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Bosk - Sanctuary
    Bosk - Sanctuary Posts: 160 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I read through your entire thread. It is unfortunate that there are so many people who get angry and defensive, but even so, I would disagree with you (without any intended malice) for the following reasons:


    1. Asking simply takes too long. Someone is fighting a boss or a group of mobs and you can help. Instead of jumping in and healing, buffing, drawing aggro or damage, you stop to type "need help/buffs/heals/etc.?" and just as you press enter, the person dies. Not all that helpful, and for 99% of the time, the answer would have been "YES!" anyway. This is simply not logical at all. Add to that issues about being heard and/or understood and the suggestion only gets worse.


    2. But what about the 1%. Well, I understand because I am one of the 1%-ers myself. I like to fight bosses solo, and if I die, so be it. I will be back in 10 minutes to try again with a new plan of attack. This is how I hone my skills.

    But if someone buffed me, or jumped in with a de-buff on the boss or even just healed me, I just accept it. Generally I say thank you and explain what it is I am trying to do. Most understand, some even get excited (a new way to play perhaps) and some get pissed and call me names. But here's the thing: If I am one of the 1%, then it is ME who has to be prepared for the consequences of my style of play. Trying to get people to understand the difference when they cannot is like trying to push a rope or heard cats. You might eventually be successful, but you are just setting yourself up for tons of frustration.


    3. There are a lot more issues then just Clerics buffing randomly. As a Barb, I am often berated for taking aggro when someone felt I should not. Knock-back skills (like Slam and Knock-back Arrow) can push bosses or mobs out of the range of other players (which can be disastrous at times). And personally, as a 1%-er, I like being in relatively same level squads, so when someone brings in a level 90+ character at the last minute, I am often tempted to just leave the squad and join a new one. I at least offer them to bring in someone else to replace me (if they really want me, I stay, but it is not my favorite style of play).


    So, while I think I understand your point and respect the issue, as I have had to face it myself, I think your suggestion/solution is invalid and the only reasonable alternative is to be patient with those players who do things contrary to your style of play. An explanation is usually enough, and if anyone gets pissed, there is always the Blacklist (which I have even had to use a few times; boy can I tell some stories, but perhaps another time *smile*).

    Good Luck!
    Dante: "Cute is a relative term."
  • Skimi - Dreamweaver
    Skimi - Dreamweaver Posts: 333 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Well if im checking can i solo boss then i better die than get saved. How you know, maybe my charm would tick before i die or maybe i plan to use instant hp regen potion when my health is more lower. If people don't stop attacking it then i just let them get agro and die. When boss resets then i continue what i did before.
    Or if i agro more mobs then i often want to kill them myself too instead of someone else taking them off from me. Heck they eating my charm, don't make it to be a waste :)
  • Hakiii - Heavens Tear
    Hakiii - Heavens Tear Posts: 283 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Are you kidding.
    People would complain-about getting helped?
    This is why I'm becoming less of helpful person, cause anytime I do anything nice for people I get spat in the face.
    I would of been ridiculously thankful if people would of randomly came up to me and helped in any way.
    Next time someones about to be toast I'll be sure to let them die wasting the time typing.
    "Lykomg, do u want 2 b savedd!?11"
    If people are that ungrateful then why should I bother asking in the first place.

    This caught me on a angry day. //QQ
  • VerenKaunis - Dreamweaver
    VerenKaunis - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,099 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    My opinion would be that the selfishness is on your (OP's) part.

    As Bosk already said, players who would rather not receive help in PWI (or any MMO for that matter) are in the minority. To expect/ask everyone else to change their play style to accommodate your own is both selfish and hypocritical.
    This alt has been brought to you by lkurei - Harshlands.
    I'm a guy. b:sad
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  • Chickpea - Lost City
    Chickpea - Lost City Posts: 165 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I posted this on the cleric forum but now i think this is not just a clerci issue :

    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=665332

    I would like to see more reactions of players from any class.
    Any reaction is fine, i like it ;)

    I think its more a matter of knowing the situation. If you see a random guy tanking a boss and his hp is going down hella fast, im not gonna bother typing "sorry do you mind if i heal you".

    Ill just save his life and start healing lol...if im in a good mood. I dont think anyone in that situation mind if they get help.

    But clerics have to realize that if ress/buff aren't maxed you should always ask first. Its pretty rude if you overwrite someone else's ress/buffs that are maxed. Worse is if you have a low revive and use it on someone. The guy might be lying there waiting for a friend with lvl 10 or 11 ress and just clicks accept and looses loads of exp.

    If you see a mp/hp regen icon above someones head you should also always ask. They might be using a pretty costly apothecary pot and celestial guardian seal will overwrite it. They will be rather pissy just like the guy u used lvl 3 revive on b:chuckle.

    People grinding in general might not want heals and buffs either. Mainly b/c they dont need it and just wanna focus on grinding and dont really feel like being social. If you start support they have to say "thank you" and stuff. For some people it also feels kinda intruding, if you start following them and healing while their on a exp scroll or something.

    So yeah random clerics should ask first in most cases and learn to check what buffs a player has before starting to "help". But if you see someone about to die, i dont think asking is a good idea.
  • Dysha - Heavens Tear
    Dysha - Heavens Tear Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    i can understand the buffing part but if ur about to die ur telling me to ask u for help lyk r u serious? i mean wouldn't u rather like to be saved instead of dying n losing exp n the hard work u put into take down that boss hp?

    i mean we only want to help......b:cry
  • Zephirin - Dreamweaver
    Zephirin - Dreamweaver Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Due to unfortunate circumstances I am unable to post with my real Cleric, so this alt will have to do for now. I don't feel like making a totally new response so I'll quote myself from your other fail thread...
    Zanryu -Dreamweaver
    Alright guys, let's add this chick to our These People Will Never Get Our Buffs Again list! Wow, this list is starting to get full maybe we should make a new one? o.o

    Seriously, if the OP doesn't want buffs don't give them to her.. EVER. That may be a dumb solution but meh, they're the one that doesn't want buffs. Also no rez! Make that veno go to town!
  • Chickpea - Lost City
    Chickpea - Lost City Posts: 165 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I dont think this is an issue above i dunno lvl 50 or so.

    Really only very low lvl players that loves to run around and buff random people. Kinda how lowbie venos puts bramble on everyone they see.

    Normally clerics are tired of random people whispering them asking for buff/heals/help so they wont do anything even if you actually ask nicely or is about to die lolz. I personally cant be bothered healing every random player i see thats about to get killed by a mob.

    Most clerics will ignore 90% of the player population in need of a cleric, so its really more of the other way around.
  • AlbireoTwo - Lost City
    AlbireoTwo - Lost City Posts: 2,056 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Forget healing. Let the player die, and then use your level 1 res and bring him back to life. b:sin
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Thank you Forsakenx for the picture. b:thanks
  • Kaneharo - Dreamweaver
    Kaneharo - Dreamweaver Posts: 327 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I'd go and help people, depending upon the mood, where I am, and whether they actually need sufficient help or not. But hearing about people actually getting ticked off for helping them actually makes me wonder how worth it is to do so.
    (☞゚ヮ゚)☞
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  • Bosk - Sanctuary
    Bosk - Sanctuary Posts: 160 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I hope I did not imply that I was or would ever complain about being helped. That is definitely not my style. But I do see times (happened to me today even) when someone tries to help with the result being somewhat less than desired.

    For example: Today I was trying to solo Krixxix and someone came and tried to help me. They were quite concerned when I died, but part of the reason I died was that I was trying to recover from something they did (not complaining, it just happened is all). On the way back (after reviving in Arch) I explained that I was trying to solo him, and the second time they did not help, and made sure no one else helped and I had Krixxix down to 120 points when I died a second time (it was so close, but it was also really exciting!) After doing that, I learned a lot, and I know next time I will likely defeat him. The point is that for some players like myself, living or dying is not what matters. Learning how to better use our skills or just being able to accomplish something is the point, and if we die a few times at the attempts, so what? That is how we learn, and that is how we like to play.

    That does not mean I am ungrateful for the help offered when someone does not understand what I am doing. Quite the contrary. The aide usually opens a chance to discuss my intentions and I get to meet new people. People worthy of knowing because they ARE helpful. It is simply a conflict of style or perhaps understanding the different goals. In my example, my EXP was at 0%, so dying cost me nothing even in lost EXP. But this is not something someone else is going to automatically know.

    I have rushed in to help many times and been raked over the coals for it. "You just stole my kill!" someone complains. "But you were running away, I thought you were in trouble?" I reply. And then starts the flurry of adolescent (or even juvenile) comments usually rife with foul language and angry terms. Personally, I feel there is no need for this. A simple explanation of your playing style is all that is necessary and I will not interfere with you again. But digressing into accusations and name calling is not helpful at all. And assuming that everyone automatically knows how you play is rather unrealistic as well.

    The bottom line is simply to be understanding that not everyone plays the same way you do, and that does not make their desires any better or worse than yours. With thousands of different players in an MMO, finding someone who does not play like everyone else is something I look forward to, and I often am able to learn new things because of their different way of thinking. At least for me, that is how I get the most out of these games.

    Good Luck!
    Dante: "Cute is a relative term."
  • Arhil - Heavens Tear
    Arhil - Heavens Tear Posts: 106 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    TBH, I disagree with the no-buffing thing as well.

    Yes, I understand it's frustrating when a cleric comes along and overwrites your apoth buff. But does that really warrant getting upset at them for trying to help? Not to mention, there aren't THAT many people out there who use apoth stuff, especially below lvl 90 or so. So most of the clerics out there have never even HEARD of this issue. If anything, thank them for trying to help, and just explain to them (kindly, of course) that next time they should check to see if the person already has the little buff icons, before casting.

    (When I play my cleric, that's how I handle it. If I see no icons, I buff. If the icons are there, I'll ask if they're on apoth. Simple solution. But again, most clerics don't know about this issue.)
    Don't mind me, I'm just here for the free food!
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