Clerics : stop buffing everybody you find

KataVeno - Raging Tide

Aya__ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

id like to clarify: my last post wasnt intended to be sarcastic at all (and this one isnt either).
discussing things is fun. arguing with a troll can be fun too (or can be annoying). making fun of someone who has a real problem would be just low.

i am aware ppl arent identical, and have different points of view, preferences, opinions and whatever. im ok with that, thats what makes life interesting. but when you get enough people in the same place chances are there will be many similarities, and as a whole group will be close to some kind of average and typical. thats when i was confronted with extremely different opinion, going against things i learned about this game during almost a year i played it, and not really clear ways of defending that opinion i suspected that may be different problem than views on unasked for helping - unwillingness or inability to comply with what is usually cosidered a 'norm'. wanting to be left alone (all the time or only on 'ogre days') is one thing. making such a long thread trying to convince majority of people that come here they are in the wrong and should immediately change their way of playing is different. so i think that thread wasnt really about a game at all. if i was right - im sincerely sorry for OP problem. if i wasnt - then im sorry i wasnt able to understand her point at all. (not because i have any intention of changing myself - i just believe communication is important)

Did i make you thinking i was nos taking your post seriously ?
I was completely serious when i said it was interesting.
Simply because it allowed me to put an important point of my personnality.
I did not thank you for this... i do it now

It seams you think a lot like me. Maybe you are just a little more flexible than i am

Well, this thread don't intend to change the way clerics or anyone should play.
Sure i asked to but my goal was to get reactions. And i got them !!!

This thread is good to see how poeple can be when someone don't agree with them.
I expected this, but i do think it is better to show it than say nothing.

Of course there are a lot of QQ thread of this type but is there only one where the main poster defends his point this long ?

There is only one way to learn how not to be reckless with others, this is by seeing how everybody does not agree

Devinettie - Heavens Tear

So.. let me get this straight.. when I stand on my cleric behind an elder (usually the untamed) and Buff low lvls with lvl 10 buffs I'm doing wrong? or when.. Buffing a lvl 20 or so outside archo who has no buffs at all?

I understand the powders.. but really to tell me I'm wrong for helping ppl who don't use powders?

And.. you want me to let Players die.. when fighting a mob thats gona kill them?

and you want me to ask... if you want buffs?

And asking before rezzing?

So basically from what I understand from this thread is when I play my cleric.. I play it all wrong?

Nexdonum - Lost City

aryannamage wrote: »

Indeed there are rules on this forum. And spam if excessive is a banable offense. Nexdonum you are tempting the GM's to let the banhammer fall. This is the only warning you will get.

Times like this makes me wish that the SarcMark was more common. : /

Purge - Raging Tide

Kata's response to SoulPeace's statement "Most most most of the time a buff/heal/whatever is appreciated,I can't act considering the small % to meet someone not buffed with doesn't want buffs";

KataVeno - Raging Tide wrote: »

This is just a different point of view. As i said, i would ask every time
I understand this way of thinking and i am not against it.
But i do think you are not the kind of player who will be disrespectful with someone who would answer
"thanks for your buff but i don't really need it"
or "thanks but i want to kill that boss without it".

I think if we ran a poll asking how many people appreciated random cleric buffing, the outcome would be far greater than even 90% in favour. In respect of that, don't you think your request is somewhat selfish? I would imagine the vast majority of players are thankful of a cleric taking their time to buff them, but because of your unusual play-style you would expect us to go around asking and awaiting responses too? b:scorn

Aadi - Lost City

Purge - Raging Tide wrote: »

Kata's response to SoulPeace's statement "Most most most of the time a buff/heal/whatever is appreciated,I can't act considering the small % to meet someone not buffed with doesn't want buffs";



I think if we ran a poll asking how many people appreciated random cleric buffing, the outcome would be far greater than even 90% in favour. In respect of that, don't you think your request is somewhat selfish? I would imagine the vast majority of players are thankful of a cleric taking their time to buff them, but because of your unusual play-style you would expect us to go around asking and awaiting responses too? b:scorn

If it was expected of me to ask every single person I randomly buff, I wouldn't randomly buff at all. And it is rather selfish to think that just because a few people don't want buffs, everyone else should be deprived because that's what will happen. Clerics aren't going to want to go through all the trouble of "Do you want buffs? Yes? Okay" for 990 people to satisfy the 10 that don't want them.

Disarmonia_X - Heavens Tear

KataVeno - Raging Tide wrote: »

for the last time... this level 23 veno doesn't mean i just started to play.

and For the last time: Then if you go to post something, Don't hide behind a alt toon. .

KataVeno - Raging Tide

Purge - Raging Tide wrote: »

I think if we ran a poll asking how many people appreciated random cleric buffing, the outcome would be far greater than even 90% in favour. In respect of that, don't you think your request is somewhat selfish? I would imagine the vast majority of players are thankful of a cleric taking their time to buff them, but because of your unusual play-style you would expect us to go around asking and awaiting responses too? b:scorn

There are a lot of replies beteween the first post and this one.
My point is not that 99% of clerics want to help and 1% not.
My point is that there are 1% of players that will do anything they want, regardless of others.

I mean, if i say "pay attention to powder effect that will be erased", why is there always someone to say "if that doesn't suit you, go away" ?
This is an example but i can count a lot of situations like this.

My goal is to make poeple think. Not to make them play as i want.

If you random buff, as long as you KNOW that it might be not helpful for everybody, and you are comprehensive to the player that will say "thanks but i don't need"
that is fine to me

But if you are the kind of player to reply to this same player, "uninstall this game and get lost"... well this is where i say there is a lack of something important.

KataVeno - Raging Tide

Aadi - Lost City wrote: »

If it was expected of me to ask every single person I randomly buff, I wouldn't randomly buff at all. And it is rather selfish to think that just because a few people don't want buffs, everyone else should be deprived because that's what will happen. Clerics aren't going to want to go through all the trouble of "Do you want buffs? Yes? Okay" for 990 people to satisfy the 10 that don't want them.

Already said but i repeat.
This is not my goal and i will always accept this, i don't want everybody think like me
( though i think it should be great ) but i want everybody keep in mind that those 10 exists.

KataVeno - Raging Tide

Disarmonia_X - Heavens Tear wrote: »

and For the last time: Then if you go to post something, Don't hide behind a alt toon. .

I don't hide, i already said i play this game since 3 years now.
But do you really consider the avatar is of any importance here ?
I will not make a cleric character, play it to level 80, just to suit poeple that does think i am a newcomer because a picture says my current caracter is

I think you were not totally serious but i know some would really be with this so i use your post to tell this point.

Zoomia - Heavens Tear

Now that troll has been revealed, as Kata said, "my goal was to get reactions", and clearly those reactions were frustration and trolling being defined here as "Trolling: Attempts to incite others to anger, frustration or similar". I have a counter question for you.

Cleric_001 wants to run around buffing people. They want to do this, and typically they want to buff as many as possible, spreading the love (not waste time asking).

Player_099 doesn't want buffs.

Why should Player_099's wants outweigh Cleric_001's?

Raviste - Heavens Tear

Good thing Raging Tide is a PvE server, or a few enraged clerics might show you something other than buffs, eh KataVeno? b:cute

I do understand where you're coming from, but your posts come off as condescending to clerics, and that's why I think all this hate is generating. I myself have encountered a few instances where when I gather a bunch (10-15 usually) of mobs in OHT to AoE for my OHT daily, some barb decided to dash forward and grabbed aggro of the whole bunch and killed them. When questioned, he said, "Oh, I thought you were in trouble so I tried to save you."

....

It's indeed frustrating when other players assumed that you need help when you really were perfectly alright. Just be careful of the way you write as that might offends others and invalidate the point you were trying to make.

KataVeno - Raging Tide

Zoomia - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Now that troll has been revealed, I have a counter question for you.

Cleric_001 wants to run around buffing people. They want to do this, and typically they want to buff as many as possible, spreading the love (not waste time asking).

Player_099 doesn't want buffs.

Why should Player_099's wants outweigh Cleric_001's?

It should not. Did you read ?
There is no such thing like a better way of thinking.
My ask is does Cleric_001 know how Player_099 is thinking and how dos he react to him ?

KataVeno - Raging Tide

Raviste - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Just be careful of the way you write as that might offends others and invalidate the point you were trying to make.

Indeed, communication is by far the most important matter in the world.
I know for sure i can be misunderstood.
But on the contrary i never forgive those who don't read.
If someone say "there are 100 posts here" i reply read or say nothing.
I never force poeple to think like me but they don't have to come here if they are not interested.

Zoomia - Heavens Tear

KataVeno - Raging Tide wrote: »

It should not. Did you read ?
There is no such thing like a better way of thinking.
My ask is does Cleric_001 know how Player_099 is thinking and how do he react to him ?

I did read, closely.

KataVeno - Raging Tide wrote: »

1 ) If you're in dire need to help somebody, ask him first !!!
"do you want some buffs ?", "can i help you ?" and so on...
really this is the LEAST you must do to be polite.

Here you are directing people how to play, and say they "must" ask first, which also suggests trying to get people to play a certain way, which you deny in other posts.

I'm sure most clerics know there are people that do what they want, when they want, and how they want it. People do and try many things that go against logic and prevent top performance. Heavy wizard/cleric anyone? There is nothing wrong with these styles, but it shows examples of lateral thinking.

Every cleric will react differently, some apologizing, some saying, "I'm sorry for improving your defenses and magic attack". Some will ignore, and some will flame. As you yourself said, there is no better way of thinking, so any of these responses would be ok. You are simply asking if clerics are prepared, right?

Perhaps you should also include that Player_099 needs to be aware that clerics go around random buffing, and react appropriately, instead of creating a one-way window to the situation.

LifeHunting - Heavens Tear

Raviste - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Good thing Raging Tide is a PvE server, or a few enraged clerics might show you something other than buffs, eh KataVeno? b:cute

I do understand where you're coming from, but your posts come off as condescending to clerics, and that's why I think all this hate is generating. I myself have encountered a few instances where when I gather a bunch (10-15 usually) of mobs in OHT to AoE for my OHT daily, some barb decided to dash forward and grabbed aggro of the whole bunch and killed them. When questioned, he said, "Oh, I thought you were in trouble so I tried to save you."

....

It's indeed frustrating when other players assumed that you need help when you really were perfectly alright. Just be careful of the way you write as that might offends others and invalidate the point you were trying to make.

Bold: You don't wanna know how many time's that'll happen to a BM who is charmed and killing 15+ mobs at one time......=.=

Zoomia - Heavens Tear

Yes classes have great skills.
Yes classes are usefull to almost anymody when times come.

but there are two things i would like to tell you all :

1 ) If you're in dire need not to be helped, tell him first !!!
"do not buff me", "I don’t want to be helped" and so on...
really this is the LEAST you must do to be polite.
Otherwise it is like walking into a restaurant, and expecting not to be seated!

edit : this is exactly the same than someone who doesn’t "help" you kill a mob without you asking him.
And i am not talking of exp here.

2 ) HIGH IMPORTANCE !!! (because some classes don't know, learning is always good)
please REFRAIN FROM MAKING POINTS IN ALL CAPS when you want to use your POSTING SKILL !
This amazing text CANCELS the effect of our much better and beloved informative statements !!!

no, wait, never use it... that's better ! (my thinking though)

Ending :

Sure you try to do fine but you do not ! Again, if you don’t want to help, just ask not to be!
It's simple and much more kind.

The point here is not that I dislike this. The point is that there are people who DO want help.
Not helping them without even asking yourself if the player doesn’t want it is just selfish :

"I think it is better if i let him die"
"I think it is bad to take less damage"
"I think resurrecting him is bad because he will not loose as much exp"
edit : the resurrect example is really good since then they might learnhow not to die, i admit.

please, start to think that you're freedom has to be limited by other's one and start to ask yourself :
"Is this player thinking like me ?"

edit :

I know this is hard to understand, and this is harder to explain.

My predicament is not that classes do what i have written above
but it is that players are often to much careless about ignoring others
resulting in classes doing this.

I don't really care about that consequence, players are often kids and kids are careless
It might be easier to understand this :
You have over 9,000 players :
9990 who like helping others
10 who dislike
everybody who disagree with me here will say "i forget the 9990 ones and don’t tell anyone not to help"
i say "i will tell over 9,000 times to be sure because i care about not receiving help"

KataVeno - Raging Tide

Zoomia - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Here you are directing people how to play, and say they "must" ask first, which also suggests trying to get people to play a certain way, which you deny in other posts.

Yes i did, and yes i did
But i am not denying myself.
???
how come ?
Because asking is not and will never be wrong. Asking is not an order.
I have been explicit on my thought and on what i would like to see.
I also said i perfectly understand other way of thinking as long as there are reasons.
Some manage to explain. Some are flaming. But some don't even care.

Zoomia - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I'm sure most clerics know there are people that do what they want, when they want, and how they want it. People do and try many things that go against logic and prevent top performance. Heavy wizard/cleric anyone? There is nothing wrong with these styles, but it shows examples of lateral thinking.

Every cleric will react differently, some apologizing, some saying, "I'm sorry for improving your defenses and magic attack". Some will ignore, and some will flame. As you yourself said, there is no better way of thinking, so any of these responses would be ok. You are simply asking if clerics are prepared, right?

I agree.

Zoomia - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Perhaps you should also include that Player_099 needs to be aware that clerics go around random buffing, and react appropriately, instead of creating a one-way window to the situation.

If you are thinking Player_099 as me i already said i was highly comprehensive on this.
What i do not accept is when someone do not care, flaming at anything you can say.
Those are the ones concerned by this thread and i think they are the only ones who reads nothing here .
So yes this thread might be useless...
So be it, i still try.

Well at least some new clerics might learn the cancel thing about the seal...

edit :
please, refrain for such unuseful and false accusations like the last post

Mala_Curica - Lost City

most of clerics wont buff u randomly if they already see buffs on u..if u used apot.pot for mana,u gonna have icon of mp regeneration :P
pretty sure clerics use apot.pots more then other classes (besides mages) and they know about cancel stuff..and they also know it appears icon of mp regeneration after u used it,if no icon=no apot.pot so why not buff some1 who grinds?
if they do buff some1 random,its mostly when ppl grind or quest alone and its obivious they dont have any buffs -.-
or another thing..if ur not afk,why dont u tell cleric to not buff u?or if u are afk..why u go afk after u used apot.pots?they gonna be wasted anyway then.. b:surrender

relog if u mind so much being buffed,reroll to pvp and pk whoever buffs u or rez u.
there always gonna be players who QQ when they get buffs and who QQ when they dont get..but u dont mind vanguard or spirit gift buff,dont u?

Zoomia - Heavens Tear

I am not making a false accusation.

KataVeno - Raging Tide wrote: »

There are a lot of replies beteween the first post and this one.
My point is not that 99% of clerics want to help and 1% not.
My point is that there are 1% of players that will do anything they want, regardless of others.

I mean, if i say "pay attention to powder effect that will be erased", why is there always someone to say "if that doesn't suit you, go away" ?
This is an example but i can count a lot of situations like this.

My goal is to make poeple think. Not to make them play as i want.

If you random buff, as long as you KNOW that it might be not helpful for everybody, and you are comprehensive to the player that will say "thanks but i don't need"
that is fine to me

But if you are the kind of player to reply to this same player, "uninstall this game and get lost"... well this is where i say there is a lack of something important.

Bolded above is where you claim you are not trying to change how they play: "Not to make them play as i want" yet you also say people "must ask" - meaning change the way they play.

It is in fact you who made the false accusation.

KataVeno - Raging Tide

Mala_Curica - Lost City wrote: »

most of clerics wont buff u randomly if they already see buffs on u..if u used apot.pot for mana,u gonna have icon of mp regeneration :P
pretty sure clerics use apot.pots more then other classes (besides mages) and they know about cancel stuff..and they also know it appears icon of mp regeneration after u used it,if no icon=no apot.pot so why not buff some1 who grinds?
if they do buff some1 random,its mostly when ppl grind or quest alone and its obivious they dont have any buffs -.-
or another thing..if ur not afk,why dont u tell cleric to not buff u?or if u are afk..why u go afk after u used apot.pots?they gonna be wasted anyway then.. b:surrender

relog if u mind so much being buffed,reroll to pvp and pk whoever buffs u or rez u.
there always gonna be players who QQ when they get buffs and who QQ when they dont get..but u dont mind vanguard or spirit gift buff,dont u?

I guess i'll have to tell it again
I don't mind any buff at all except for some particular times (solo bosses).
If i don't like it, i just say thanks and explain myself.
Most of the time there is no problem this that.

about the cancel thing, no, some clerics don't know.
As i almost always tell them, i can say this is sure
I remind there is a post of a cleric telling he didn't knew.
Of course the most will know but i think it is good to get a chance to explain this behavior for the others, isn't it ?

general PS : There are more interesting post now than at the beginning.
I thank you each player who come here to explain what they think of this, and why they think this way or not.

Mala_Curica - Lost City

i guess ill have to write it again too..cleric wont randomly buff someone who already have buffs..if u used pot,u will have mp regen.icon for it.clerics dont go buff ppl who already have buffs on them,usually buff those who quest/grind WITHOUT buffs.

Disarmonia_X - Heavens Tear

My 2 cents: This Thread is pointless. You can not talk to KataVeno - You'll just end up going in circles. .

Note to KataVeno: Don't post unless you're willing to listen.

KataVeno - Raging Tide

Zoomia - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I am not making a false accusation.

Bolded above is where you claim you are not trying to change how they play: "Not to make them play as i want" yet you also say people "must ask" - meaning change the way they play.

It is in fact you who made the false accusation.

please, don't play with words... we already said communication is a hard matter.
We always can understand words as we want.

You're telling that saying "must ask" means i will do everything to make poeple change ?
You're wrong. This is my thought. That is all.
Yes i would like to see more poeple thinking this way. So what ?
My wish is nothing else but a wish.
I already said and i repeat i perfectly understand other's way of thinking.

Stop trying to contrary me with my own words, i know perfectly well how i think.
If you want to contrary me, do it with your own and argue.
This is when posts become interesting.

KataVeno - Raging Tide

Mala_Curica - Lost City wrote: »

i guess ill have to write it again too..cleric wont randomly buff someone who already have buffs..if u used pot,u will have mp regen.icon for it.clerics dont go buff ppl who already have buffs on them,usually buff those who quest/grind WITHOUT buffs.

I'm sorry, you can only tell this for yourself.
There are some posts in this thread of clerics who say exactly the oposite. See yourself
Besides, it happens to me many times.

KataVeno - Raging Tide

Disarmonia_X - Heavens Tear wrote: »

My 2 cents: This Thread is pointless. You can not talk to KataVeno - You'll just end up going in circles. .

Note to KataVeno: Don't post unless you're willing to listen.

This is proof you don't read.
The two best posts i have got here were from players who were arguing against me.
I want poeple to says something to argue. All the posts "you are this" and "you are that" are pointless. This is not arguing.

Zoomia - Heavens Tear

KataVeno - Raging Tide wrote: »

please, don't play with words... we already said communication is a hard matter.
We always can understand words as we want.

You're telling that saying "must ask" means i will do everything to make poeple change ?
You're wrong. This is my thought. That is all.
Yes i would like to see more poeple thinking this way. So what ?
My wish is nothing else but a wish.
I already said and i repeat i perfectly understand other's way of thinking.

Stop trying to contrary me with my own words, i know perfectly well how i think.
If you want to contrary me, do it with your own and argue.
This is when posts become interesting.

It is you who are playing with words now, I am not saying must ask means you will do everything to make people change.

If it was your thought, you should say it as people "should ask".

should = suggestion
must = demand

Also, why do you defend things that people are not attacking
"I already said and i repeat i perfectly understand other's way of thinking." I did not say you didn't.

And now I am going to take Disarmonia_X's advice and stop swimming in circles.

And now I rest... until the next troll.

KataVeno - Raging Tide

Zoomia - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It is you who are playing with words now, I am not saying must ask means you will do everything to make people change.

If it was your thought, you should say it as people "should ask".

should = suggestion
must = demand

Also, why do you defend things that people are not attacking
"I already said and i repeat i perfectly understand other's way of thinking." I did not say you didn't.

And now I am going to take Disarmonia_X's advice and stop swimming in circles.

And now I rest... until the next troll.

This is the first rule of communication : never guess someone is thinking something if he says nothing or if he says the contrary.

If i misunderstood what you wanted to say, i apologise.
Words are only a way to express thoughts. They are not and will never be a way to know them.
I said must because i am pationate. But i think i have enough said that was not my thought. I don't have to proove that what i think is this or that.

I would like to add a few words about trolling.
This is the forum rules definition :
"Trolling: Attempts to incite others to anger, frustration or similar; also attempts to incite flaming."

This is definitely what i do here.
If this was what you and others think, then this is a misunderstanding.

I am still waiting for other good arguments.
I am pretty sure there must be others thing to say that was not already done.

Skratz - Heavens Tear

Zoomia - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yes classes have great skills.
Yes classes are usefull to almost anymody when times come.

but there are two things i would like to tell you all :

1 ) If you're in dire need not to be helped, tell him first !!!
"do not buff me", "I don

so much for quoting working. really weird.
that quote above is funny!

MystiMonk - Sanctuary

To Kata

You come in here complaining about US buff we are fully aware of when not to and when to.We know more about playing this class than you will ever know if you have problems with clerics on your sever take it up with them.I have not seen one Raging Tide cleric even post in this thread.it is only those low lvl 20 like yourself that go around buffing to make them selves usefull.


We higher lvl clerics don't do this as it going out of our way and waste of time.Don't tell us how to play our roles and I don't care if you played cleric or not you still don't know enough btw can you prove it if you want I can post an SS of my Veno lvl 54 more than twice the lvl you are.you want to take this up with some do it in game not in this forum as it serves no purpose and it isn't being constructive.

We have talked this over to death if ever did a search for it.

Trolling i don't think you know exactly what that is but you are doing that as well.

Purge - Raging Tide

KataVeno - Raging Tide wrote: »

I'm sorry, you can only tell this for yourself.
There are some posts in this thread of clerics who say exactly the oposite. See yourself
Besides, it happens to me many times.

I don't see any posts declaring the opposite of what Mala said. Only that Mala neglected to mention that those would be the actions of experienced clerics. New players of any class will make mistakes when they first start playing and the vast majority won't spend a great deal of time trawling through forums to weedle out every little tip on how and when to use their skills (or indeed when not to use them!). The best way for them to learn is for you to explain it to them...for each and every new person that makes the mistake. Indeed, you can also start an informative forum thread, but think carefully about the title - "Clerics: stop buffing everybody you find" will only lead to you being shot down in flames!