Useless against Assassins?

Technotic - Sanctuary · February 2010

It would be nice if we could even hit you though. I think cloak should be like, a % of invisible. Level 10 = 85% invisible(harder to see). Sage = 95%, demon = 100% for 3 seconds then 90%. So like.. sage would just be a blur when you move or outline. While level 1 would be pretty visible still.

Legerity - Sanctuary · February 2010

Technotic - Sanctuary wrote: »

Not true, I have full TT90 gold and gems, all refined and powered, and a level 8X assassin 1 hit me with a crit when he was 100% invisible in PK mode. Yes I lost to an assassin the other day.

...?

Your description of your own gear is misleading.

You have TT90 gold yes, but they're refined to like +1, full of immac sapphires with the exception of 8 or so slots with +1 attack level gems.

You have no HP. That's why you're a 1 shot. b:shutup

Technotic - Sanctuary · February 2010

Yes but TT90 gold is still much higher than normal gear. He was saying it was all about gear, well mine is high as it gets at this point other than super refined and +Vit or Citrines. I was still 1 hit by level 8X which is pretty bad. If I could even get a lock on him, I could get around him or even stun him. 8Xshould not being to take down TT90 Gold in 1 hit, unless the weapon is +12 or something. It was a low 80. So we're not talking like 89. Maybe 82 tops.

Legerity - Sanctuary · February 2010

Technotic - Sanctuary wrote: »

Yes but TT90 gold is still much higher than normal gear. He was saying it was all about gear, well mine is high as it gets at this point other than super refined and +Vit or Citrines. I was still 1 hit by level 8X which is pretty bad. If I could even get a lock on him, I could get around him or even stun him. 8Xshould not being to take down TT90 Gold in 1 hit, unless the weapon is +12 or something. It was a low 80. So we're not talking like 89. Maybe 82 tops.

Well, here's a comparison... I am pretty sure a 9x Wizard with TT90 gold and +1 refines with odd shard choice will be a one shot to an 8x Archer. They have no HP or Pdef... Of course they're going to be a 1shot to 8x Archers. Now take that same gear and throw in +5 everywhere with actual HP and Pdef stones then well... they put up a really hard fight.

I don't know but 3k HP at your level is a tad too squishy, don't you think? It's kind of hard to do anything if something targets you.

My view on this is more to do with Archers were gimped to begin with... At this point we should be trying to find a way to counter it rather than posting repeatedly that tideborn is "OP".

I think the key to take down an Assassin would be a nice genie. If you break their stun and give it your best shot, they don't seem too bad. Once they can be targetted, they're usually 1 shot at 8x and 2-3shots at 9x. If they force stealth then your genie will be ready to break their next stun. It really is just about timing and breaking their opening chain.

Well, that's my theorycrafting input.

rikako · February 2010

wow 3k hp..? no wonder you cry so much, obivously most sins are cash shopper with better hp than you on 80s.. ive seen a sin having 4.2k hp on 80s.. take a example.

Technotic - Sanctuary · February 2010

Yes but instead of HP, I have high crit and damage. I rely on killing the target within the first couple shots. But with assassins, I can't even get a target to hit, making it an extreme unfair advantage.

Vorhes - Dreamweaver · February 2010

Anyone that thinks archers are useless against assassins needs to stop taking the drugs lol jk but seriously come on b:chuckle

Technotic - Sanctuary · February 2010

We have no skills that can hit you when you're invisible. Next time you're in a duel, let someone hit you a couple times before you fight back, and lets see how long it turns out.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear · February 2010

Technotic - Sanctuary wrote: »

Yes but TT90 gold is still much higher than normal gear. He was saying it was all about gear, well mine is high as it gets at this point other than super refined and +Vit or Citrines. I was still 1 hit by level 8X which is pretty bad. If I could even get a lock on him, I could get around him or even stun him. 8Xshould not being to take down TT90 Gold in 1 hit, unless the weapon is +12 or something. It was a low 80. So we're not talking like 89. Maybe 82 tops.

90 gold has the same stock resist as 90 green. the only thing 90 gold has extra mag def and the occosional dex. so against a sin, the extra mag def is **** and the few dex will translate to a dozen or so dmg. while the 90 green has quiet a bit of extra hp (couple hundred).

Technotic - Sanctuary wrote: »

Yes but instead of HP, I have high crit and damage. I rely on killing the target within the first couple shots. But with assassins, I can't even get a target to hit, making it an extreme unfair advantage.

yea... so instead of hp you have a extra crit or 2. and looks where that has gotten you.

Technotic - Sanctuary wrote: »

We have no skills that can hit you when you're invisible. Next time you're in a duel, let someone hit you a couple times before you fight back, and lets see how long it turns out.

as of now its not hard at all to kill the few sins that have reached 8x... things might change when they level up... or might not. but honestly if your having this much trouble with them in duels... you have no chance against them in the wild... so you might as well quit while your not that far behind... cause they'll just f*** you over when they hit 9x.

Legerity - Sanctuary · February 2010

Technotic - Sanctuary wrote: »

Yes but instead of HP, I have high crit and damage. I rely on killing the target within the first couple shots. But with assassins, I can't even get a target to hit, making it an extreme unfair advantage.

Every class needs to survive a few hits. By you having such low hp and not being able to survive a few hits (no grace/shell/apoth), that no longer is a disadvantage for archers, but to everyone in general.

And yes, assassins were designed to land their first hit. Unfair? Well yes. Solution? You need to find a way to break their chain. BUT regardless, you need to survive at the bare minimum their first hit.

I don't see that happening with 3k hp.

Technotic - Sanctuary · February 2010

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

90 gold has the same stock resist as 90 green. the only thing 90 gold has extra mag def and the occosional dex. so against a sin, the extra mag def is **** and the few dex will translate to a dozen or so dmg. while the 90 green has quiet a bit of extra hp (couple hundred).

yea... so instead of hp you have a extra crit or 2. and looks where that has gotten you.

as of now its not hard at all to kill the few sins that have reached 8x... things might change when they level up... or might not. but honestly if your having this much trouble with them in duels... you have no chance against them in the wild... so you might as well quit while your not that far behind... cause they'll just f*** you over when they hit 9x.

Like I said i'm more damage.

Its not just a couple of extra crit. I stand at 42% crit without any demon skills activated.

It was in PK, but since you're so powerful, how do you target the invisible assassin? Do share.

And surviving the first hit isn't the point. From the rate they attack and ability to stun, by the time they uncloak and can see what happen, they've put 2-3 hits in you. At the crit rate they have, at least one of those is a crit. Can't even see it coming, and can't target them when invisible. That is why its so ridiculous.

MagicHamsta - Lost City · February 2010

Technotic - Sanctuary wrote: »

It was in PK, but since you're so powerful, how do you target the invisible assassin? Do share.

you don't
X_x'
there be no AoE skills in this game.
also assassins has 2 teleport skills that can out range even archers....(and one stuns for 3 seconds when used...)
b:surrender

it be pretty annoying when me know the assassin is RIGHT THERE and me can't do anything about it.....

Technotic - Sanctuary · February 2010

Thats what i've been saying. But a few people are too blind to see that.

Quilue - Sanctuary · February 2010

at Tech:
i understand your point that sins can spark while stealthed then hit you with stun lock and theres not much you can do against that unless you have a good genie or something, but just saying man...work on that damn hp.

and Legy:
no...a sin has as much hp as us, there is no way they are 2-3 shot. maybe if you have a really nice wep, but i don't see it happening especially with their deaden nerves and built-in 25% dodge ****.

Technotic - Sanctuary · February 2010

I know my hp needs work on. I don't plan on it though. All my gear has +1 attack in it so far, and I'm just working on my end game gear to add it to that to. So far I have +12 attack level at any given time.

Brigid - Harshlands · February 2010

Tested and confirmed. Assassins can spark without leaving stealth. I've heard that certain skill animations still show up to nearby players though, anyone want to comment on that? And a double/triple sparked assassin can certainly one-shot an archer with a crit, so we're basically helpless.

MagicHamsta - Lost City · February 2010

Brigid - Harshlands wrote: »

Tested and confirmed. Assassins can spark without leaving stealth. I've heard that certain skill animations still show up to nearby players though, anyone want to comment on that? And a double/triple sparked assassin can certainly one-shot an archer with a crit, so we're basically helpless.

it doesn't show up. b:surrender
.....
me has a pretty decent nerf idea
xD
while stealthed, assassins suffer a 80% movement debuff and can't use teleport/move speed buffs. (not sure about what kind of debuff they will has in air though mayhaps slow fly speed as well...they are assassins after all.)
X_x'
it not be that much of a nerf.....other games has them crawling and can't use any skills in stealth.
also me would still like for focused mind's 25% chance to be reduced, teleport skills get a channeling/cast time and reduced cast range....(it be not right when they can teleport stun even archers out of archer's range lol....)
._.'

_Tsunami_ - Lost City · February 2010

Ok this is a nice QQ thread,but people need to think that every class is good in something.
For exemple: today a wizard sent the blue dragon spell on a party (i was in that party) and everyone got 1 hitted. Not 1, not 2 but 4 guys died in 1 shot and the wizard was like lvl 75 (as you can see i'm 63 now). For sure i'll not go cry saying "nerf wizards nerf wizards, they destroy anything whit one spell b:cry". Yesterday an archer killed me in some hits, probably a take aim from distance - stun shot and normal attacks (sometimes they miss,sometimes they hit but in the end i was dead), don't know about his lvl and i don't care, anyway i'll not go saying "nerf archers nerf archers, they killed me from distance i want attack long rage too b:cry". The list is neverending.
What i want to say is that assassins can't be targeted and they MAY have the first hit, but this is valid in duels and if the assasin want to attack you. If you attack from distance you'll get the first hit, that it's all about your hits,miss and crit.
Duels are differents and if you want to pk join a pvp server and leave pve.
On duels use genie and fly faster, stealth use mp and sooner or later the pool will be empty or the user will be forced to use many pots just for a duel (pointless in my opinion)
Stop cry, it's childish! And if you want to nerf assassins why don't lower the damage of the wizards,the range of the archers,hp/damage of the barbs ecc?
If you go in pk mode mean you want to try to kill someone but you accept the possibility to be killed and the items loss, if you don't like this simply don't push that nice button ;-)
Take it easy and enjoy what the class you choose can do and focus on that, more important accept that it can't do everything ;-)

MagicHamsta - Lost City · February 2010

_Tsunami_ - Lost City wrote: »

Ok this is a nice QQ thread,but people need to think that every class is good in something.
For exemple: today a wizard sent the blue dragon spell on a party (i was in that party) and everyone got 1 hitted. Not 1, not 2 but 4 guys died in 1 shot and the wizard was like lvl 75 (as you can see i'm 63 now). For sure i'll not go cry saying "nerf wizards nerf wizards, they destroy anything whit one spell b:cry". Yesterday an archer killed me in some hits, probably a take aim from distance - stun shot and normal attacks (sometimes they miss,sometimes they hit but in the end i was dead), don't know about his lvl and i don't care, anyway i'll not go saying "nerf archers nerf archers, they killed me from distance i want attack long rage too b:cry". The list is neverending.
What i want to say is that assassins can't be targeted and they MAY have the first hit, but this is valid in duels and if the assasin want to attack you. If you attack from distance you'll get the first hit, that it's all about your hits,miss and crit.
Duels are differents and if you want to pk join a pvp server and leave pve.
On duels use genie and fly faster, stealth use mp and sooner or later the pool will be empty or the user will be forced to use many pots just for a duel (pointless in my opinion)
Stop cry, it's childish! And if you want to nerf assassins why don't lower the damage of the wizards,the range of the archers,hp/damage of the barbs ecc?
If you go in pk mode mean you want to try to kill someone but you accept the possibility to be killed and the items loss, if you don't like this simply don't push that nice button ;-)
Take it easy and enjoy what the class you choose can do and focus on that, more important accept that it can't do everything ;-)

you is just a bad assassin....and....6x fighting a 7x/8x....
b:sweat
also BIDS = long channeling time + cost 2 sparks + can't one shot without crit later on.....
b:sweat
also archers be easy to kill even for me.
>.<'
and they can easily kill me as well.....
o and don't you know that invisibility lasts forever at level 10?
just need to pop one 50 mp regen out of combat apoc....
now where is you?
so me can shoot you down
>.<'

Brigid - Harshlands · February 2010

Finally, don't forget one critical fact: You can see every other class coming. Assassins are more or less perma-stealthed out of combat. Unless you're horribly fail or significantly lower level, no archer is ever going to be able to hit you first, and since we're both low-HP Light Armor classes, whoever gets the first hit generally wins.

Besides, you have long range. What else would you call a 30-meter teleport, a 35-meter teleport-stun, and a 35-meter knife throw? That outranges every other class in the game.

Oh also, let me get this straight: You died to someone more than 10 levels higher and you're complaining? I think that alone shows how overpowered Assassins are.

MagicHamsta - Lost City · February 2010

Brigid - Harshlands wrote: »

Finally, don't forget one critical fact: You can see every other class coming. Assassins are more or less perma-stealthed out of combat. Unless you're horribly fail or significantly lower level, no archer is ever going to be able to hit you first.

Besides, you have long range. What else would you call a 30-meter teleport, a 35-meter teleport-stun, and a 35-meter knife throw? That outranges every other class in the game.

also both teleports be INSTANT cast.
b:surrender
....
more then enough range to out range any class but it be instant as well...
and one even stuns for 3 seconds....(and don't use spark cost as an excuse...we all know assassins get chi ridiculously fast)

Trancesend - Harshlands · February 2010

i personaly hate ppl who cry on forums. This might infact change the games main spells and pvp outcome. Like warhammer online was ruined by QQers, in the end the game welt boring.
Hope it dosent happen to this game b:surrender

_Tsunami_ - Lost City · February 2010

You don't get the point,i know focus powder help (like a normal cleric buff once you hit lvl 10 invisibility) but this is the strenght of the assassins! Whitout this skill are just a melee class that wear LA.(not able to tank,at least at my lvl, and not able to stunlock as a bm)
If you check other games you'll see that assassins are usually the best at pvp, but a mmorpg is not just pvp. Usually the assassin is good at pvp,the warrior is good as tank/pve, wizard=lot of damage but die fast ad cleric heal. A rpg USUALLY work in this way, or simply let's remove the invisibility and make all class able to heal,to tank and to do the same damage,change just the apparence and the skills animations.
As said every class have a role,pwi it's not just pvp or duels and if you really have that lvl i bet you know that. If you don't like simply reroll to a class whit the role YOU like.
Last thing,i got pked every day and i pk someone everyday,but i don't know if i'm a good assassin or not, i simply enjoy the game and after every bh run at least a squad member add me as friend cause maybe they think i can be useful or simply i'm a nice person ;-)
Sometimes you win,sometimes you lose ;-)

Risingson - Lost City · February 2010

It ain't normal that Sins are able to buff themselves, fly and tp while remaining invisible, you can't argue with that. I don't think Sins are OP, they're squishy as hell and I one shot most of Sins my level if I get to hit them.

BUT, being able to actually cast spells (actually, buffs and also Spark) and such while remaining unseen is wrong. Stealth should get broken when they use such skills.

Brigid - Harshlands · February 2010

Trancesend - Harshlands wrote: »

i personaly hate ppl who cry on forums. This might infact change the games main spells and pvp outcome. Like warhammer online was ruined by QQers, in the end the game welt boring.
Hope it dosent happen to this game b:surrender

Whereas having one class (archers, naturally) be nearly useless in PvP at endgame, and having another against which there is no defense and no way to prepare, is much better?

Perceptions matter. Unless ways for each class to counter assassins in some way are found, fewer and fewer players will play non-assassin classes. What happens when half the server is running around as an Assassin?

That said, my primary complaint isn't "Assassins kill me, nerf them now". It's "Assassins of significantly lower level kill me and I can't fight back in any way." I don't mind there being a class that I can't easily kill. Barbarians and high level wizards, for example. But I can at least TRY, and feel like I tried.

Quilue - Sanctuary · February 2010

_Tsunami_ - Lost City wrote: »

You don't get the point,i know focus powder help (like a normal cleric buff once you hit lvl 10 invisibility) but this is the strenght of the assassins! Whitout this skill are just a melee class that wear LA.(not able to tank,at least at my lvl, and not able to stunlock as a bm)
If you check other games you'll see that assassins are usually the best at pvp, but a mmorpg is not just pvp. Usually the assassin is good at pvp,the warrior is good as tank/pve, wizard=lot of damage but die fast ad cleric heal. A rpg USUALLY work in this way, or simply let's remove the invisibility and make all class able to heal,to tank and to do the same damage,change just the apparence and the skills animations.
As said every class have a role,pwi it's not just pvp or duels and if you really have that lvl i bet you know that. If you don't like simply reroll to a class whit the role YOU like.
Last thing,i got pked every day and i pk someone everyday,but i don't know if i'm a good assassin or not, i simply enjoy the game and after every bh run at least a squad member add me as friend cause maybe they think i can be useful or simply i'm a nice person ;-)
Sometimes you win,sometimes you lose ;-)

That's ****, PvP and PvE are separate realms. Every class should be good at PvP, or what are you going to tell people who rolled other classes on PvP servers? Sorry your class isn't meant to kill and enjoy PvP, you're just supposed to tank bosses for me or heal me while i kill everyone?

This game has always balanced around the fact that every class can stand up to each other in PvP, if not solo then at least in mass PvP. Don't give me that bull**** "if you don't like your class' role, which happens to not be PvPing, then reroll". if you're going to tell someone that, YOU pay for his 90+ levels in hyper stones and 300m+ in gear so he can ****ing reroll.

_Tsunami_ - Lost City · February 2010

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

That's ****, PvP and PvE are separate realms. Every class should be good at PvP, or what are you going to tell people who rolled other classes on PvP servers? Sorry your class isn't meant to kill and enjoy PvP, you're just supposed to tank bosses for me or heal me while i kill everyone?

This game has always balanced around the fact that every class can stand up to each other in PvP, if not solo then at least in mass PvP. Don't give me that bull**** "if you don't like your class' role, which happens to not be PvPing, then reroll". if you're going to tell someone that, YOU pay for his 90+ levels in hyper stones and 300m+ in gear so he can ****ing reroll.

It's always a mix of sad/fun when someone take so serius a GAME. Well if you remember the prewiew of the the last expansion it said that the new classes will be made to take the pvp to a new level (or something like this). Psychics and assassins are made to be very good at pvp, the best if you know how to move (but in my opinion barbs at endgame are still monsters). I'm sorry if you pay to take your char to lvl 90+ and now the only thing you can do is cry because you are not the strongest or there is a class that totally destroy you.
Some people should turn off the computer and get a life.

_Tsunami_ - Lost City · February 2010

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

That's ****, PvP and PvE are separate realms. Every class should be good at PvP, or what are you going to tell people who rolled other classes on PvP servers? Sorry your class isn't meant to kill and enjoy PvP, you're just supposed to tank bosses for me or heal me while i kill everyone?

This game has always balanced around the fact that every class can stand up to each other in PvP, if not solo then at least in mass PvP. Don't give me that bull**** "if you don't like your class' role, which happens to not be PvPing, then reroll". if you're going to tell someone that, YOU pay for his 90+ levels in hyper stones and 300m+ in gear so he can ****ing reroll.

Well,it's always a mix of sad/fun when someone take so serious a GAME. If you remember the preview of the last expansion it said that psychics and assassins will take the pvp to a new level (or something like this). They are made to be good at pvp and can be the best if you know how to move (but in my opinion barbs are still monsters)
If you want to kill an assassin make tons of apoch pots (not just the one that heal or give you sparks,but something that save from the first-horrible-terrific-monstrous-kid eater-QQ hit) use genie skills and hope you crit when you hit,if you hit.
In pve stay in pk mode make you a pray, maybe in the past wasn't so but now it's different and you must accept it.
Some people should turn off the computer and get a life

sorry for the double post but wasn't show and i rewrited it.sorry again everyone

Legerity - Sanctuary · February 2010

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

at Tech:
i understand your point that sins can spark while stealthed then hit you with stun lock and theres not much you can do against that unless you have a good genie or something, but just saying man...work on that damn hp.

and Legy:
no...a sin has as much hp as us, there is no way they are 2-3 shot. maybe if you have a really nice wep, but i don't see it happening especially with their deaden nerves and built-in 25% dodge ****.

Well, I personally believe they are 2-3shot still because you're using skills at melee range, not autofire.

What I think may work is once they open their chain with a stun and you're particular fast to react is break stun via genie and WoG followed up by 2-3 melee/metal skills. They'd probably force stealth after you WoG, but you've broken their chain and that's what it really all comes down to.

At higher levels this of course won't be a 2-3 shot, but I for one, do remember ourselves being easily killed without decent refines at mid levels.

Regardless, what I am saying is you need to at least have enough HP to withstand the first and second hit (unless they spark).

Suggestions:
I do believe they shouldn't be able to cast in stealth. That's just plain wrong. They should be visible upon breaking the usual conditions of stealth in conventional MMORPGs i.e cast/attack will force them out.

Also, another suggestion is making awareness pots widely available. Doubt either will happen though, so just keep thinking of creative ways to counter them for now.

Quilue - Sanctuary · February 2010

_Tsunami_ - Lost City wrote: »

It's always a mix of sad/fun when someone take so serius a GAME. Well if you remember the prewiew of the the last expansion it said that the new classes will be made to take the pvp to a new level (or something like this). Psychics and assassins are made to be very good at pvp, the best if you know how to move (but in my opinion barbs at endgame are still monsters). I'm sorry if you pay to take your char to lvl 90+ and now the only thing you can do is cry because you are not the strongest or there is a class that totally destroy you.
Some people should turn off the computer and get a life.

First of all nice double post

lol I'm sorry but you assume, everyone I know knows how little I spend and how easygoing i am in-game. it's YOUR server that probably has the most cash shoppers. When someone has paid a lot for their gear or taken a lot of time playing, it's pretty much bull**** to just troll them with "I'm sorry but time to reroll buddy" instead of making changes because no one wants to play, much less pay for, an imbalanced game except the few basement dwellers that like to feel like they pwn. You let this trend continue, you can enjoy your empty servers.

Useless against Assassins?

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