Useless against Assassins?

Crypsis - Lost City

Sins are not very OP yet (they might be with the lvl 11 skills but we dunno that yet). Without the stealth its not that many amazing unbalanced feature to assassins.

Sins still cant do **** against barbs and BM, they kinda screwed against most heavy venos to.

They also drop to anyone with decent dmg that uses observation pot. Pretty sure a well-geared archer can just use Wings of grace - Observer pot + stun arrow + quick shoot. And im saying well-geared since average geared archers really cant kill anyone on same lvl 1v1 after 90+. But cant blame sins for the archer class being gimped, blame the devs ;/

And dont tell me using observation pots is costly. Any form of open world pvp requires load of genie energy and pvp-pots: dew of star protection, iron guard powder, vacuity powder etc etc

In case of sins you just have to use another pvp pot.

Brigid - Harshlands

Crypsis - Lost City wrote: »

Sins are not very OP yet (they might be with the lvl 11 skills but we dunno that yet). Without the stealth its not that many amazing unbalanced feature to assassins.

That's like saying without heals, there's not that many unbalancing features to a cleric. Stealth is very much the major advantage Assassins have, and is integral to the class.

Sins still cant do **** against barbs and BM, they kinda screwed against most heavy venos to.

But you still don't DIE to them. You simply can't kill them, and have to go back into stealth to run away. That's very different from not being able to run away OR fight back.

They also drop to anyone with decent dmg that uses observation pot. Pretty sure a well-geared archer can just use Wings of grace - Observer pot + stun arrow + quick shoot. And im saying well-geared since average geared archers really cant kill anyone on same lvl 1v1 after 90+. But cant blame sins for the archer class being gimped, blame the devs ;/

Again though, we have to know the Assassin is there, which generally, we won't until we're already basically dead. And without the Detection Potion (see below), nothing we do will really make a difference. The Assassin will simply wait it out then strike, and we can't keep it up forever.

And dont tell me using observation pots is costly. Any form of open world pvp requires load of genie energy and pvp-pots: dew of star protection, iron guard powder, vacuity powder etc etc

In case of sins you just have to use another pvp pot.

But where exactly do we get said observation pots? Detection Potions can only be made at the Raging Tide officer, which requires you own the territory. All of the others can either be made at any apothecary, or have a lower-effect version that can.

Personally, I think simply making detection potions, or even a weaker version, more freely available would go a long way towards making Assassins less unbalanced. It's more than a little ridiculous that an Assassin 20 levels below me can walk up, horribly murder me, and go back into stealth, all within maybe 10 seconds, without me having the slightest chance to fight back or prevent it.

Crypsis - Lost City

Brigid - Harshlands wrote: »

But where exactly do we get said observation pots? Detection Potions can only be made at the Raging Tide officer, which requires you own the territory. All of the others can either be made at any apothecary, or have a lower-effect version that can.

Personally, I think simply making detection potions, or even a weaker version, more freely available would go a long way towards making Assassins less unbalanced. It's more than a little ridiculous that an Assassin 20 levels below me can walk up, horribly murder me, and go back into stealth, all within maybe 10 seconds, without me having the slightest chance to fight back or prevent it.

I can kinda agree and i actually didn't think about the fact that many people cant get the pots at all.

I always had a never ending Supply of Detection pots since i can get access to Raging Tide officers - which is why i never had problems with sins ever and specially not in my archer. Just use the pot when they use shadow escape and kill them lol, in 99% of the cases they dont even realize what just happened they just stand there like morons and die <.<

But if they wont make some version of the pot available ever at apothecary's that advantage kinda disappears for the other majority of players and stealth does become slightly unbalanced against robes/la armor users. I will get rich selling insanely overpriced detection pots tho b:surrender.

Technotic - Sanctuary

How can you guys even say its balanced? Are you that blind? Archers CANNOT HIT AN ASSASSIN! We have no AoE attack to hit them with when they're invisible. You want us to build a genie to fight assassins for us? That is not going to last very long at all.

Legerity - Sanctuary

Just throwing it out there; does earthquake need a target to be casted on?

Is there any Genie AoE skill that does not require a target? If so, perhaps this can knock them out of stealth...

Brigid - Harshlands

Legerity - Sanctuary wrote: »

Just throwing it out there; does earthquake need a target to be casted on?

Is there any Genie AoE skill that does not require a target? If so, perhaps this can knock them out of stealth...

Just tested it on a fail genie. Yes, Earthquake requires a target.

edit: Hmm, anyone want to test Life Drain or Dust Storm? Don't have a failed genie with enough leftover affinity for those yet.

Technotic - Sanctuary

So we're still at the conclusion that Assassins are 100% immune to archers in certain matters.

Legerity - Sanctuary

Well the latest patch is 150mb... so I can expect something sizeable to occur.

We'll see.

Varscona - Sanctuary

Crypsis - Lost City wrote: »

Sins are not very OP yet (they might be with the lvl 11 skills but we dunno that yet). Without the stealth its not that many amazing unbalanced feature to assassins.

Sins still cant do **** against barbs and BM, they kinda screwed against most heavy venos to.

They also drop to anyone with decent dmg that uses observation pot. Pretty sure a well-geared archer can just use Wings of grace - Observer pot + stun arrow + quick shoot. And im saying well-geared since average geared archers really cant kill anyone on same lvl 1v1 after 90+. But cant blame sins for the archer class being gimped, blame the devs ;/

And dont tell me using observation pots is costly. Any form of open world pvp requires load of genie energy and pvp-pots: dew of star protection, iron guard powder, vacuity powder etc etc

In case of sins you just have to use another pvp pot.

You dont get to faceroll casters and archers, then come on here and say you can't kill the only 2 heavy armor classes in the game and that's supposed to be some sort of serious disadvantage. Just putting that out there...it's almost like barbs complaining that they can't kill other barbs.

Pretty sure a well geared archer will not WoG, eat pot, stun, quickshot considering a sin can tele-stun in from 35 meters away and be at melee range. Were you hoping to WoG every time you see a sin within squad range?

DarkHam - Harshlands

the whole WoG argument is invalid, because first off it costs a spark. And when you do use that spark, the sin will go invisible and wait out the effects of WoG, then **** your face.

MagicHamsta - Lost City

restat to heavy armor
then laugh when the sin comes out and does a mighty 200 damage per hit.
and then zerk crit them with +8 calamity axes.
b:chuckle

Moranine - Lost City

DarkHam - Harshlands wrote: »

Most of you know how OP assassins are to Archers, but isn't this just a bit ridiculous?

I mean before some classes were good at fighting others, like Mage vs BM, or Archer vs Cleric. But the BM and Cleric still had a fighting chance against the mage and archer. With these assassins it feels like an archer can't do anything but die, I mean seriously what the hell can an archer do to fight an assassin?

I can't wait until they get nurfed -_-

I heard removing some system32 files lowers their damage and make them unable to go into stealth mode.

Might wanna try it.

Chezedude - Dreamweaver

a sin with similar equipments as you is extremely hard to kill. using anti stun does not help because they can indeed just go invis and you end up wasting your spark. When they double spark and stun you out of invis, endgame sins such as the lvl 100 sin i've fought can kill most people before the stun runs out (6 seconds or so). The ONLY way to prevent death is to have a genie skill that makes you immune to damage for a while or something similar.

KedgeSniper - Lost City

Moranine - Lost City wrote: »

I heard removing some system32 files lowers their damage and make them unable to go into stealth mode.

Might wanna try it.

b:sin Hax

If you have issues wit Stealth... get sum pots so you can see them.

Shandelzare - Sanctuary

Moranine - Lost City wrote: »

I heard removing some system32 files lowers their damage and make them unable to go into stealth mode.

Might wanna try it.

OMG It worked :O

SurferGirl - Dreamweaver

Chezedude - Dreamweaver wrote: »

a sin with similar equipments as you is extremely hard to kill. using anti stun does not help because they can indeed just go invis and you end up wasting your spark. When they double spark and stun you out of invis, endgame sins such as the lvl 100 sin i've fought can kill most people before the stun runs out (6 seconds or so). The ONLY way to prevent death is to have a genie skill that makes you immune to damage for a while or something similar.

u really are an exception chez but sword sin atm even with his mighty nirvana gear need work out his all +0 and no shards i cant wait to see him +10 his wep and gear and put some +10 vit will be far more scarier then his bm

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

this thread needs to be locked.

its only a reminder of a dregradated community.

'VENO IS OP, NERF PHOENIX QQQQ, THEYRE TOO HARD TO KILL QQQQ'
-user states you can do this, this, this, and this, to win-

remember? remember!?!?

just because you have a hard time killing something doesnt mean yall need to complain about it.

Varscona - Sanctuary

^

if bleed was fine, guess where blood clot and cauterize came from?

Technotic - Sanctuary

simple solution everyone! everyone in the game should convert to heavy armor and piles their armor with Citrines to withstand the over-powering of one race. Assassins will never see it coming.

Chezedude - Dreamweaver

Technotic - Sanctuary wrote: »

simple solution everyone! everyone in the game should convert to heavy armor and piles their armor with Citrines to withstand the over-powering of one race. Assassins will never see it coming.

You might then survive for twice as long... from 2 seconds to 4 seconds.

Technotic - Sanctuary

We can't even assassins. When assassins cloak, I think it should make you 85% invisible at level 10. Sage = 95% invisible, Demon = 90% invisible but 100% invisible for 2 seconds. That would be a good invisible move. At least we can still hit you.

hemoglobin

how the hell am i supposed to beat an assassin when as soon as the duel starts, they go into invisible mode and they jump right next to me and stun and finsh -.- i cant even get one hit on them!

Technotic - Sanctuary

you can't. but they're not overpowered apparently. they're just unstoppable and can't be hit. but its ok, we're all balanced out.... *sarcasm*

Crypsis - Lost City

Varscona - Sanctuary wrote: »

You dont get to faceroll casters and archers, then come on here and say you can't kill the only 2 heavy armor classes in the game and that's supposed to be some sort of serious disadvantage. Just putting that out there...it's almost like barbs complaining that they can't kill other barbs.

Pretty sure a well geared archer will not WoG, eat pot, stun, quickshot considering a sin can tele-stun in from 35 meters away and be at melee range. Were you hoping to WoG every time you see a sin within squad range?

Endgame 99+ wiz will facerolls every class, so does 99+ barb and demon Bm with claws/fists. Endgame barbs in general is impossible to kill for any of the classes besides maybe a wiz that cash shopped they're eyes out. On top of that they can 1 shoot other heavy users easily, they can debuff you with 100+ skill and they get 55-60% crit if onslaught procs.

So sins not being able to do much against heavys is a disadvantaged if you compare it to other classes that actually can roll anyone.

This game has never been balanced in pvp and of course sins will **** on gimped classes like archer, EVERYONE shyts on archers, devs totally screwed up on that one and betrayed everyone that decided to lvl up a winged elf.

Its just rather lame raging over sins when there are other OP classes out there that will never be fixed. Amp the weak classes like archers and cleric instead of dragging down the sins that actually has at least some endgame potential compare to wizards/barbs/dps build Bms <.<

Technotic - Sanctuary

Archers = super damage, thats how they win in PvP
Wiz = super damage(elemental)
Barb = super hp
bm = super stun
veno = super curse + pet
cleric = super heal

now lets looks at tideborn

psy = super reflect/defence buff/damage buff/reduce damage/heal(weak)/super elemental damage

assassin = 100% invisible/vampire/2nd life(20% hp skill)/teleport/stun

Its totally balanced if you combine every race into 1. >.>

Brigid - Harshlands

Phoenixes, wizards, and barbs all /faceroll me, but I can deal with that. I can see them coming, as a green dot on the minimap if nothing else. I have time to potentially prepare my defenses, pop an apoth potion, whatever. Sure, I'll probably still go down, but I'll damn well go down fighting. Who knows, I may get a few lucky crits and actually win.

With assassins, I lose even that. They're invisible until they attack, and once they attack I'm dead. Yes, archers are gimped. But it would be nice to at least have the illusion of being able to fight back.

I'll repeat myself: Make Detection Potions available to the masses, and most of our legitimate complaints go away.

Chezedude - Dreamweaver

Brigid - Harshlands wrote: »

Phoenixes, wizards, and barbs all /faceroll me, but I can deal with that. I can see them coming, as a green dot on the minimap if nothing else. I have time to potentially prepare my defenses, pop an apoth potion, whatever. Sure, I'll probably still go down, but I'll damn well go down fighting. Who knows, I may get a few lucky crits and actually win.

With assassins, I lose even that. They're invisible until they attack, and once they attack I'm dead. Yes, archers are gimped. But it would be nice to at least have the illusion of being able to fight back.

I'll repeat myself: Make Detection Potions available to the masses, and most of our legitimate complaints go away.

detection pot is not a very good option as it has a 2 minute cooldown and makes you unable to use any other apocs. It's unlikely that you will be able to kill the assassin in 20 seconds anyways since they can freeze/stun/seal/sleep you.

Like I said, to not die to an assassin that spark in invis and stuns you, a genie protection skill is the only option.

_Tsunami_ - Lost City

I know, lose many fight can make you QQ but i don't think sins are OP. As archers (at least of my lvl) you can shoot me from distance and kill me, and i don't even realize what is happening (well if you don't miss :-P )
In my opinion it's all about your equip: a player whit the coins to shard everything, buy legendary/TT armours/weapons and rafine will always win. Ok u can be stunned, but if u survive (citrine+rafine= more hp) u can always fly and fall to take the right distance and heal yourself (i'm talking about pvp,not duels) and wait or run if things go bad (so u need very good wings) . As the archers sins had low hp, are glass cannons, if u have a good weapon u can win in some hits or arrows barrage a mob if they go stealth (aoe work even if invisible).
Versus a good opponent your brain is your best friend,it's not just a skill spam.
If you want to find a real OP class check an endgame barb or a "any lvl" psy and you'll see what OP mean :-P

Technotic - Sanctuary

Not true, I have full TT90 gold and gems, all refined and powered, and a level 8X assassin 1 hit me with a crit when he was 100% invisible in PK mode. Yes I lost to an assassin the other day.

_Tsunami_ - Lost City

No offence (belive me i don't want to start a flame) but u are on a pve server, this mean lot of duels (not real pvp in my opinion) and pk mode = white flag that say "ok i'm here, you can kill me".
In pvp server u are always in pk mode, so you can hunt sins if u want, like any other class and than u'll see how fast u are at kill or run (or maybe both :-P)
I think that any class have a role, this is the way a rpg work.
Archers are cool in TW, are snipers, and are a pain for clerics (<3 clerics); outside the TW u can hunt other class and hope to kill or run. Most of the "red named players" i saw are archers and mages and i think that there is a reason for this.
Sins will not be able to kill a high lvl barb, no matter if the barb see us or not,simply i don't think he care lol, he will one hit us and his charm almost make him immortal.
Play your role, it's useless think to be the strongest, sometimes u win and sometimes u lose :-P