Wizards dueling clerics ... a mistake?

Kristoph - Lost City · January 2010

You cannot kill any respectable cleric by spamming gush/pyro. Only reason to do that is building chi. If you undine them beforehand they'll be forced to heal, so that may be an advantage to you (Keep in mind that they'll also gain chi) but they aren't going to die unless they're stupid enough to sit there.

Mizzzzz - Sanctuary · January 2010

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

You cannot kill any respectable cleric by spamming gush/pyro. Only reason to do that is building chi. If you undine them beforehand they'll be forced to heal, so that may be an advantage to you (Keep in mind that they'll also gain chi) but they aren't going to die unless they're stupid enough to sit there.

Lol kk last words cuz this post is soo dead now... PWI is crazy with its Pvp everyones off with gears with refineing levels and what not...now im talking from Experience from playing on a **private server** yess thers such a thing...at max lvl 150 +12 all grade15 gears(both wizzy and cleric) same gear and everything...the wizard would win hands down..thats all im sayingb:bye i luv mi wizzy on this sever and will not let another squishy beat meb:victory

Quilue - Sanctuary · January 2010

i think private server is a pretty cool guy, eh max lvl 150 and doesn't afraid of anything

PrettySammy - Sanctuary · January 2010

Err I have about 5 different ways to kill a cleric. Im not gonna share all of them but my favorite is also the fastest.

Force of Will --> Essential Sutra + Genie Spark (100 dex - bye bye fire res!) D Pyro, Pyro, Will of Phoenix, D Pyro.

And should they still be still standing after that Soporific Whisper --> Blade Tempest (if available (i have triple sparks and never duel without max chi)) or Undine strike + Gush then Stone Rain etc. Anything to finish the job.

SurferGirl - Dreamweaver · January 2010

PrettySammy - Sanctuary wrote: »

Err I have about 5 different ways to kill a cleric. Im not gonna share all of them but my favorite is also the fastest.

Force of Will --> Essential Sutra + Genie Spark (100 dex - bye bye fire res!) D Pyro, Pyro, Will of Phoenix, D Pyro.

And should they still be still standing after that Soporific Whisper --> Blade Tempest (if available (i have triple sparks and never duel without max chi)) or Undine strike + Gush then Stone Rain etc. Anything to finish the job.

thats a pretty strong combo for any class

FireWizardEX - Dreamweaver · January 2010

SurferGirl - Dreamweaver wrote: »

thats a pretty strong combo for any class

yes but u need a good genie....
and if u spend all points in dex , instead of vit/magic for exemple u will not use extreme poison all the time, as i like to do

bramir · January 2010

Don't duel clerics. Half of them will start healing themselves during the countdown and then try to act like they have superior skillz.

If you want to fight clerics do TW and kill them before they know what is happening. For total enjoyment target a catsquad cleric while several squads are grouping for a rush with blade tempest and watch half of them die instantly.

SurferGirl - Dreamweaver · January 2010

bramir wrote: »

Don't duel clerics. Half of them will start healing themselves during the countdown and then try to act like they have superior skillz.

If you want to fight clerics do TW and kill them before they know what is happening. For total enjoyment target a catsquad cleric while several squads are grouping for a rush with blade tempest and watch half of them die instantly.

ye his right dont fight clerics....if ur a suckish wiz

guys come on i love clerics they strong but... a good wiz give cleric 0% chance to win vs em on duels (pk is diff)

bramir · January 2010

SurferGirl - Dreamweaver wrote: »

ye his right dont fight clerics....if ur a suckish wiz

guys come on i love clerics they strong but... a good wiz give cleric 0% chance to win vs em on duels (pk is diff)

Care to explain how? Barring a crit...a cleric's heal (meant for barbs and such) will heal them to full health every few seconds. Maybe you should go duel some clerics your level and quit picking on the noobs?

Adroit - Lost City · January 2010

bramir wrote: »

Care to explain how? Barring a crit...a cleric's heal (meant for barbs and such) will heal them to full health every few seconds. Maybe you should go duel some clerics your level and quit picking on the noobs?

i don't know what level you are.. because you won't show your avatar, but things do change at 9x. Pre-9x.. clerics ***** face on wizards, but later things get easier. A pure int cleric is a one shot.. unless they have ridiculously good gear (+7 or higher armor), a LA cleric is a one shot because LA fails at 9x+ on magic classes, and the only real build is a vit build. If this cleric is smart.. they really won't lose unless you catch them not healing for several seconds, where you might get the chance to bypass their charm.. or I guess a BT crit would finish off 99% of clerics out there. The only real other option would be to wait until they are at like 60%, then sutra -> poke (tick their charm) -> MS (for 6 second stun) -> nuke -> nuke (sutra ends) -> poke -> poke and hope that does the trick. It kinda works out for wizards in the end, the more points a cleric puts into vit, the less of a threat they are (damage wise) so even if you cant kill them, they shouldn't be able to kill u either.

bramir · January 2010

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

i don't know what level you are.. because you won't show your avatar, but things do change at 9x. Pre-9x.. clerics ***** face on wizards, but later things get easier. A pure int cleric is a one shot.. unless they have ridiculously good gear (+7 or higher armor), a LA cleric is a one shot because LA fails at 9x+ on magic classes, and the only real build is a vit build. If this cleric is smart.. they really won't lose unless you catch them not healing for several seconds, where you might get the chance to bypass their charm.. or I guess a BT crit would finish off 99% of clerics out there. The only real other option would be to wait until they are at like 60%, then sutra -> poke (tick their charm) -> MS (for 6 second stun) -> nuke -> nuke (sutra ends) -> poke -> poke and hope that does the trick. It kinda works out for wizards in the end, the more points a cleric puts into vit, the less of a threat they are (damage wise) so even if you cant kill them, they shouldn't be able to kill u either.

No charms in dueling. If they worked I would duel clerics again.

I'm almost lvl95 and LA (which does not fail especially in pvp, despite popular opinion, but it does make clerics a bit harder to kill 1v1). Seriously, other than my wife, every cleric I would duel would spam heal themselves during the countdown, and so I don't duel clerics anymore. Dueling is a sort of contest, and that is what I consider cheating.

/Groovy/ - Harshlands · January 2010

bramir wrote: »

Dueling is a sort of contest, and that is what I consider cheating.

They use cleric skills. It's like saying wizard shouldn't use Sutra in duels because it's cheating (since no other class can channel so fast).

I can kill most of clerics my level easily even if they spam heals on themselves.
FoW - Undine - Sleep - Extreme Poison - Blade Tempest = 9/10 clerics will lose already. Finish with fast Will of Phoenix if needed.

Adroit - Lost City · January 2010

bramir wrote: »

No charms in dueling. If they worked I would duel clerics again.

I'm almost lvl95 and LA (which does not fail especially in pvp, despite popular opinion, but it does make clerics a bit harder to kill 1v1). Seriously, other than my wife, every cleric I would duel would spam heal themselves during the countdown, and so I don't duel clerics anymore. Dueling is a sort of contest, and that is what I consider cheating.

ya i was talking about pvp.. prolly shoulda kept on topic (didn't rly see the duels.. but now i see it >.>) and yes, LA clerics do fail in PvP. I can honestly say I've never lost (since 9x) to a LA cleric in a 1v1. You don't know how bad it is until you've tried LA and arcane.

SurferGirl - Dreamweaver · January 2010

bramir wrote: »

Care to explain how? Barring a crit...a cleric's heal (meant for barbs and such) will heal them to full health every few seconds. Maybe you should go duel some clerics your level and quit picking on the noobs?

if by noobs u mean 5 to 10 lvls above me then ye im killing noobs lol

i dont even duel clerics my lvl i know they wont stand a chance i only duel clerics close to lvl 100 or at least about 95

its so freaking easy to 1 shot a cleric geez i can easly do a 7-6k non crit with BT

and if the do the shell skill its also not a problem i use my lvl 10 MS to dmg them (at lvl 10 with undine it does close to 3k on them) which is most of their hp and then a 6 sec stun to cast 2 more spells =dead cleric

i got alot more tactics that i just wont share with every wiz alive cuz it took me some time to think and make them

Adroit - Lost City · January 2010

SurferGirl - Dreamweaver wrote: »

its so freaking easy to 1 shot a cleric geez i can easly do a 7-6k non crit with BT

Unless you are using a +12 warsoul weapon or fighting someone significantly lower level than you (or I guess some n00b that doesn't know what pdef is), I call BS. Using my +7 Inferno.. with undine/frenzy/extreme poison and having the cleric only self buffed, I hit them for about 5k non crit with sage BT. Before I was 99, I remember critting Fiddy_Yen (vit cleric) for 7.9k (just under 4k non crit) with lvl 10 BT when I was using my +8 2 perf saph HH 90 glaive (don't remember all the debuffs however). Superfluous info, it was in 34 in cube, and he had just triple sparked while my FoW was on cooldown, so to protect myself I slept him and tried a BT, unfortunately he was near full HP and that hit only ticked his charm b:cry and I got sent back to room 1 promptly after.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear · January 2010

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

Unless you are using a +12 warsoul weapon or fighting someone significantly lower level than you (or I guess some n00b that doesn't know what pdef is), I call BS. Using my +7 Inferno.. with undine/frenzy/extreme poison and having the cleric only self buffed, I hit them for about 5k non crit with sage BT. Before I was 99, I remember critting Fiddy_Yen (vit cleric) for 7.9k (just under 4k non crit) with lvl 10 BT when I was using my +8 2 perf saph HH 90 glaive (don't remember all the debuffs however). Superfluous info, it was in 34 in cube, and he had just triple sparked while my FoW was on cooldown, so to protect myself I slept him and tried a BT, unfortunately he was near full HP and that hit only ticked his charm b:cry and I got sent back to room 1 promptly after.

I agree with you. 6-7k without critic? Impossible.
BTW. In TW I 1shot archer with black dragon lv.10 and it was critic hit for 8k. But I don't believe that BT non critic will do 6-7k on cleric.

NuDe - Heavens Tear · January 2010

I havent read all page of this thread, but personnaly, if a cleric stack heal before the duel start, i just run out of his range...

Enough time to the heal doesnt heal him anymore...
Then i come back to fight him...

If he starts again to heal himselof, if i cant FoW him, i run again
b:chuckle

He will be annoyed, then if he has no patience, he will stop to heal himself b:victory

Oh and just to had something, i dueled a wiz of my level yesterday.
With Undine strike right before, i hitted him 7,5k with BT (no crit)
So not so impossible...
(dont ask me why, i was surprised too...)

Shadowvzs - Lost City · January 2010

SurferGirl - Dreamweaver wrote: »

if by noobs u mean 5 to 10 lvls above me then ye im killing noobs lol

i dont even duel clerics my lvl i know they wont stand a chance i only duel clerics close to lvl 100 or at least about 95

its so freaking easy to 1 shot a cleric geez i can easly do a 7-6k non crit with BT

and if the do the shell skill its also not a problem i use my lvl 10 MS to dmg them (at lvl 10 with undine it does close to 3k on them) which is most of their hp and then a 6 sec stun to cast 2 more spells =dead cleric

i got alot more tactics that i just wont share with every wiz alive cuz it took me some time to think and make them

sry but i doubt u deal 7k on a good ep without crit or 3rd spark+spark potion.

noob cleric = who cant play with his class or use lame eq (example mdef ornament on tw) not who is higher or lower!

i really doubt if that cleric was selfbuffed and not a uber noob who cant play with her class then i could easily 1hit. (or if in pve server the clerics that nubs the u have right)

Adroit - Lost City · January 2010

NuDe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Oh and just to had something, i dueled a wiz of my level yesterday.
With Undine strike right before, i hitted him 7,5k with BT (no crit)
So not so impossible...
(dont ask me why, i was surprised too...)

1. The mage uses mdef ornaments and has some ridiculously low pdef
2. You had extra debuffs (like BM draggons)
3. You have a ridiculously good weapon (like +12 g13 or higher weapon)
4. You are making it up

XMidKnight - Lost City · January 2010

All this drama and Clerics die so fast in PvP..

(with full chi) = FoW - Sutra w/ EP + Frenzy - L11 Divine Pyro - Pyrogram - Blade Tempest

If ur sage with L11 DP u wont need Undine. If their still alive their charmed would of ticked..

Sleep - Glacial Snare and prepare to have a charm ticking duel >.>

And incase anyones gonna say they would sleep me before i cast FoW.. if they try 3 Sparking you with PS it shouldnt 1 shot u. If it does. Reroll.

bramir · January 2010

I've seen some fairly high level clerics with terrible hps and physical defense, which are the ones a lot of you seem to be fighting (if you aren't making up these numbers).

My only complaint about clerics healing themselves is when they start doing it before the duel starts.

And yes, TW and dueling are worlds apart.

SurferGirl - Dreamweaver · January 2010

Shadowvzs - Lost City wrote: »

sry but i doubt u deal 7k on a good ep without crit or 3rd spark+spark potion.

noob cleric = who cant play with his class or use lame eq (example mdef ornament on tw) not who is higher or lower!

i really doubt if that cleric was selfbuffed and not a uber noob who cant play with her class then i could easily 1hit. (or if in pve server the clerics that nubs the u have right)

easly 7k with sage spark + BT (and yes a chi pot )

adroit i was lazy to read all u said but it really is easy to do that much dmg inles they odnt use shell and the clerics i duel are uselly full event gear

XMidKnight - Lost City · January 2010

Mizzzzz - Sanctuary wrote: »

also remember this clerics use metal which is weak against fire.. BTs mixed with fire and physical...wat are clerics weak against..? fire and physical lol

OMG ScreenShot.
Officially the most Stupid thing i have ever seen on the history of this forum.

/Uninstall

Adroit - Lost City · January 2010

XMidKnight - Lost City wrote: »

All this drama and Clerics die so fast in PvP..

(with full chi) = FoW - Sutra w/ EP + Frenzy - L11 Divine Pyro - Pyrogram - Blade Tempest

If ur sage with L11 DP u wont need Undine. If their still alive their charmed would of ticked..

Sleep - Glacial Snare and prepare to have a charm ticking duel >.>

And incase anyones gonna say they would sleep me before i cast FoW.. if they try 3 Sparking you with PS it shouldnt 1 shot u. If it does. Reroll.

charms tick in duels? thats news to me
-20% fire resistance from sage d.pyro is not even close to replacing -60% from undine
I'm kinda surprised you're from a PvP server.. "(with full chi) = FoW - Sutra w/ EP + Frenzy - L11 Divine Pyro - Pyrogram - Blade Tempest" would be so easy to defeat (domain on BT or sleep after FoW runs out for a stupid example, if they are in the air they could simply drop etc).. is that really the best you could come up with to kill a cleric?

SurferGirl - Dreamweaver wrote: »

easly 7k with sage spark + BT (and yes a chi pot )

adroit i was lazy to read all u said but it really is easy to do that much dmg inles they odnt use shell and the clerics i duel are uselly full event gear

I can't even think of a reason to sage spark -> BT. When a DECENT cleric sees a sage spark, they will either... sleep you and laugh as you just wasted your spark, or if that is on cooldown.. self heal/put up shell when they see the BT.. or holy path out, drop from the air, or if any of those don't work... there is always domain or an apoth pot. Could you imagine wasting 5 sparks and putting your apoth pots on a 2 min cooldown for that?

Triple spark adds a static amount of damage. From personal experience, it about doubles the damage of pyro/gush, but only gives an extra maybe 25% damage on an ulti. When you spark.. you should be getting as many small skills as you can off with that extra bonus damage, not doing a slight bit more damage on one skill.

Next time you make damage claims, don't forget to mention what you did to up your damage. You have to remember, most of us are used to fighting decent/good clerics where a combo like that would be just dumb. Sage mages should NEVER need to use chi pots..

SurferGirl - Dreamweaver · January 2010

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

charms tick in duels? thats news to me
-20% fire resistance from sage d.pyro is not even close to replacing -60% from undine
I'm kinda surprised you're from a PvP server.. "(with full chi) = FoW - Sutra w/ EP + Frenzy - L11 Divine Pyro - Pyrogram - Blade Tempest" would be so easy to defeat (domain on BT or sleep after FoW runs out for a stupid example, if they are in the air they could simply drop etc).. is that really the best you could come up with to kill a cleric?

I can't even think of a reason to sage spark -> BT. When a DECENT cleric sees a sage spark, they will either... sleep you and laugh as you just wasted your spark, or if that is on cooldown.. self heal/put up shell when they see the BT.. or holy path out, drop from the air, or if any of those don't work... there is always domain or an apoth pot. Could you imagine wasting 5 sparks and putting your apoth pots on a 2 min cooldown for that?

Triple spark adds a static amount of damage. From personal experience, it about doubles the damage of pyro/gush, but only gives an extra maybe 25% damage on an ulti. When you spark.. you should be getting as many small skills as you can off with that extra bonus damage, not doing a slight bit more damage on one skill.

Next time you make damage claims, don't forget to mention what you did to up your damage. You have to remember, most of us are used to fighting decent/good clerics where a combo like that would be just dumb. Sage mages should NEVER need to use chi pots..

well im dueling clerics that are 10 lvls above me i use the most chi i can get

and i realize clerics sleep some1 when they see sage spark or w/e thats why i start duel with a poke so they waste their sleep and then i spark since they cant 1 hit me inless a crit and as soon as they hit ur out of sleep state and if i see their shell is up i use sutra instead of BT about 2k-2.5k a hit can land off 4 hits thats more then enough they cant even out heal that and if shell isnt up a bt alone can 1 shot them and if its a really good cleric with insane gear frenzy + EP and his done for it there is really alot of more tactics i use that isnt incloude sage spark and i dont let the cleric hit me once but im the first wiz that i saw on my server using em so i dont want to share it with every1 else

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear · January 2010

BTW. Today I duel with 97 BM. I was surprise how easy it was. Undine + FoW+ sutra + WoP + gush then he lock me after when I got out of lock shrink+gush. It was end. I had still ~50% of health. b:thanks

From lv. 95 PvP is MUCH easier. And with good gear is even super easy. Every level it became easier and easier.b:victory

ShadowDrag - Lost City · January 2010

mizzzzz - Sanctuary wrote: »

also Remember This clerics Use Metal Which Is Weak Against Fire.. Bts Mixed With Fire And Physical...wat Are Clerics Weak Against..? Fire And Physical Lol

LMFAO This Is Why We Dont Play On Pve Severs

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear · January 2010

ShadowDrag - Lost City wrote: »

LMFAO This Is Why We Dont Play On Pve Severs

You right. That's sad what theories can some people make.b:shocked

Shadowvzs - Lost City · January 2010

SurferGirl - Dreamweaver wrote: »

well im dueling clerics that are 10 lvls above me i use the most chi i can get

and i realize clerics sleep some1 when they see sage spark or w/e thats why i start duel with a poke so they waste their sleep and then i spark since they cant 1 hit me inless a crit and as soon as they hit ur out of sleep state and if i see their shell is up i use sutra instead of BT about 2k-2.5k a hit can land off 4 hits thats more then enough they cant even out heal that and if shell isnt up a bt alone can 1 shot them and if its a really good cleric with insane gear frenzy + EP and his done for it there is really alot of more tactics i use that isnt incloude sage spark and i dont let the cleric hit me once but im the first wiz that i saw on my server using em so i dont want to share it with every1 else

u useing pots 3rd spark and bu and ep cant use barrier, lv79 absorb skill,genie (often i see ep's get the pattack immune + seal the target skill or interrupt skill or absolute domain).

yes in this case u can 1hit a clearic, but cleric must be nub or he dont care about duel).

about ur tactic, i dont really asked it, have alot variation since genie is here.

Adroit - Lost City · January 2010

SurferGirl - Dreamweaver wrote: »

well im dueling clerics that are 10 lvls above me i use the most chi i can get

and i realize clerics sleep some1 when they see sage spark or w/e thats why i start duel with a poke so they waste their sleep and then i spark since they cant 1 hit me inless a crit and as soon as they hit ur out of sleep state and if i see their shell is up i use sutra instead of BT about 2k-2.5k a hit can land off 4 hits thats more then enough they cant even out heal that and if shell isnt up a bt alone can 1 shot them and if its a really good cleric with insane gear frenzy + EP and his done for it there is really alot of more tactics i use that isnt incloude sage spark and i dont let the cleric hit me once but im the first wiz that i saw on my server using em so i dont want to share it with every1 else

relying on a cleric to waste their sleep means you are relying on them sucking. Guess its a pve server thing.

Basically every idea you've mentioned relies on the other cleric sucking. When I think of a decent cleric.. they should have a MINIMUM of 7-8k hp and 8k pdef buffed... and even that is not very impressive (it is not unheard of to see clerics with 11k+ hp and 10k+ pdef buffed without crazy cash shop). They don't waste their sleep... and they self heal.. and they have domain.. It is really tough to kill a cleric that knows what they are doing 1v1... tbh the only ways I know how to stand a chance is with a sleep -> BT when they are at like 60% (usually this takes a while to do.. they will domain on your first attempt, so you gotta wait the next 2 mins for sleep to come off cooldown) or ofc a sutra BT/MS usually works unless they have some ridiculous inhuman reaction time. A good cleric just isn't gonna go down to a triple spark or gush/pyro or even a sutra with 4 regular skills.

Unless your other strategies are really different from what you have mentioned, I doubt they'd work on a real cleric >.>

Wizards dueling clerics ... a mistake?

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