Wizards dueling clerics ... a mistake?

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  • Mumintroll - Heavens Tear
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,393 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Sinopis - Lost City wrote: »
    Undine + Elementral Sutra + Force of Will + Blade Tempest = Insta win.


    /End Tread

    How do you know that? Do you have already 3.99 spark? b:cute
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Sinopis - Lost City
    Sinopis - Lost City Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I am not an idiot, I do know about my class.
  • Herne_Hunter - Sanctuary
    Herne_Hunter - Sanctuary Posts: 508 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    @Sinopis try this out then


    3 Spark (while u do this cast cloud erruption (lvl 6 min))>> undine strike>>zooming thunder powder>> BT.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]


    I want to go back to the time when innocence was Natural, getting high meant, on a swing. Drinking meant lemonade. Dad was the only Hero. Love was Mom's hug. Dad's shoulder was the highest place on earth. Worst enemies were siblings.
    Hurts were Bleeding knees. Broken things were only Toys. Goodbyes meant only till tomorrow!

    Life has changed a lot ....

    Hasn't it .. ?? ..b:sad
  • Herne_Hunter - Sanctuary
    Herne_Hunter - Sanctuary Posts: 508 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Sinopis - Lost City wrote: »
    Undine + Elementral Sutra + Force of Will + Blade Tempest = Insta win.


    /End Tread


    seriously ?

    hmm u do undine >> Elemental //break// + force of will + Blade Tempest (forget this part) and cleric seals you. Does 3 Spark and plume shots the hell outta ya ...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]


    I want to go back to the time when innocence was Natural, getting high meant, on a swing. Drinking meant lemonade. Dad was the only Hero. Love was Mom's hug. Dad's shoulder was the highest place on earth. Worst enemies were siblings.
    Hurts were Bleeding knees. Broken things were only Toys. Goodbyes meant only till tomorrow!

    Life has changed a lot ....

    Hasn't it .. ?? ..b:sad
  • Sinopis - Lost City
    Sinopis - Lost City Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Herne_Hunter - Sanctuary wrote: »
    seriously ?

    hmm u do undine >> Elemental and cleric seals you. Does 3 Spark and plume shots the hell outta ya ...
    Did you forget to notice Force of Will before you posted??? I don't know how they will be able to sleep you if they can't use skills for 5 seconds which before that wears off the duel will be over.
  • XxLady_XelxX - Dreamweaver
    XxLady_XelxX - Dreamweaver Posts: 455 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Sinopis - Lost City wrote: »
    Did you forget to notice Force of Will before you posted??? I don't know how they will be able to sleep you if they can't use skills for 5 seconds which before that wears off the duel will be over.

    Did you seem to forget that any Cleric that gets nailed with Undine and can still move afterward isn't going to stand there and eat the rest of that combo without throwing up defensive countermeasures? =/

    Or did something change? I thought FoW -> Undine -> Sutra -> Sopohomoroforic (cba to look up the proper spelling) -> Poisoned/Frenzied BT was the primary combo to keep a Cleric still while you 1-shot them. At least when dealing with a Cleric of comparable statistical strength, or when trying to deal with a Cleric head on.
  • Sinopis - Lost City
    Sinopis - Lost City Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    XxLady_XelxX - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Did you seem to forget that any Cleric that gets nailed with Undine and can still move afterward isn't going to stand there and eat the rest of that combo without throwing up defensive countermeasures? =/

    Or did something change? I thought FoW -> Undine -> Sutra -> Sopohomoroforic (cba to look up the proper spelling) -> Poisoned/Frenzied BT was the primary combo to keep a Cleric still while you 1-shot them. At least when dealing with a Cleric of comparable statistical strength, or when trying to deal with a Cleric head on.
    I don't know why you would be at Max Distance vs a Cleric seeing as they don't do any more damage ranged. Giving your plently of cast time to hit the cleric with BT.

    And that combo won't work, you won't have any chi for BT. FoW is the spell that gives us the chi for the 2nd spark so we can BT. Undine don't give chi when it hits. Sleep also uses chi (20 i think?) so you wouldn't have any chi left for a BT and ill have to use other skills to kill them. Unless ofc this would all change and yours would be right if your using spark pots. In this case there are none used.
  • Herne_Hunter - Sanctuary
    Herne_Hunter - Sanctuary Posts: 508 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Sinopis - Lost City wrote: »
    Did you forget to notice Force of Will before you posted??? I don't know how they will be able to sleep you if they can't use skills for 5 seconds which before that wears off the duel will be over.

    no i didnt but u didnt read properly what i wrote, force of will and Sutra are a wizards trump card if you use it unwisely then your screwed. cause as soon the cleric see's u do that sutra thing or forget sutra they see you do undine they will seal you . Why cause they know at sutra you can deal more damage than reuglar, so by the time u do undine>>sutra be well aware that you lost your sutra for good in that duel.

    this whole thing what i wrote, is keeping in mind the cleric's in Sanctuary. Btw, its easier to say stuff, rather then doing the same you know. i wish i could really show you how it is in RL, hope some LC wizard and Cleric shows you the difference.

    and on what you said that you know your char well enough, well its good for you that you know but merely knowing it doesnt help too much, you also need to understand it, as to how well you take damage, and whats the cooldown on skills and ect ect.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]


    I want to go back to the time when innocence was Natural, getting high meant, on a swing. Drinking meant lemonade. Dad was the only Hero. Love was Mom's hug. Dad's shoulder was the highest place on earth. Worst enemies were siblings.
    Hurts were Bleeding knees. Broken things were only Toys. Goodbyes meant only till tomorrow!

    Life has changed a lot ....

    Hasn't it .. ?? ..b:sad
  • Sinopis - Lost City
    Sinopis - Lost City Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Herne_Hunter - Sanctuary wrote: »
    no i didnt but u didnt read properly what i wrote, force of will and Sutra are a wizards trump card if you use it unwisely then your screwed. cause as soon the cleric see's u do that sutra thing or forget sutra they see you do undine they will seal you . Why cause they know at sutra you can deal more damage than reuglar, so by the time u do undine>>sutra be well aware that you lost your sutra for good in that duel.

    this whole thing what i wrote, is keeping in mind the cleric's in Sanctuary. Btw, its easier to say stuff, rather then doing the same you know. i wish i could really show you how it is in RL, hope some LC wizard and Cleric shows you the difference.

    and on what you said that you know your char well enough, well its good for you that you know but merely knowing it doesnt help too much, you also need to understand it, as to how well you take damage, and whats the cooldown on skills and ect ect.
    You will about 80% of the time get force of will off on the cleric before he/she can sleep you.

    Also note that this is a duel. In PvP if you do this i will laugh my **** off.

    And I know how well i can take damage, But vs a server full of mostly +10 and 8Jun Archers there isn't much time to notice that your gonna die in 1 shot anyway.
  • Adroit - Lost City
    Adroit - Lost City Posts: 4,628 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    there are a few ways to get an ult off against a cleric.. easiest is just to sleep then ult, but a sutra ult will usually do the trick as well. A sutra BT gets off so fast (assuming you have shell rdy for instant chi) that the chances of a cleric being able to do something about it is slim to none. There are always no channeling pots.. and I guess if you are demon.. U have a few stuns that you could use.

    @lady xel
    sleep costs 20 chi so what you said wouldnt work. and using FoW sleep and all your sparks at the same time is just asking them to domain and **** you while you are helpless.

    You generally want to save those until u need them.. and nvr use them all at the same time like that. You could try sleep ult or sutra ult.. or really anything, but try to use the least chi/skillz with a long cooldown that you can get away with.
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  • Herne_Hunter - Sanctuary
    Herne_Hunter - Sanctuary Posts: 508 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Sinopis - Lost City wrote: »
    You will about 80% of the time get force of will off on the cleric before he/she can sleep you.

    Also note that this is a duel. In PvP if you do this i will laugh my **** off.

    And I know how well i can take damage, But vs a server full of mostly +10 and 8Jun Archers there isn't much time to notice that your gonna die in 1 shot anyway.


    well do ask a wizard 90 + and cleric 90+ to duel infront of u, and ask the wiz to use the same combo you mentioned. You will see the difference, and i very well know your talking bout duels, and as i said before, reading guides and mugging up combo's is different, and implementing them ingame is a lot different.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]


    I want to go back to the time when innocence was Natural, getting high meant, on a swing. Drinking meant lemonade. Dad was the only Hero. Love was Mom's hug. Dad's shoulder was the highest place on earth. Worst enemies were siblings.
    Hurts were Bleeding knees. Broken things were only Toys. Goodbyes meant only till tomorrow!

    Life has changed a lot ....

    Hasn't it .. ?? ..b:sad
  • Herne_Hunter - Sanctuary
    Herne_Hunter - Sanctuary Posts: 508 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    see in duels i noticed something that you can cast sutra when the count down is at 2..... so if u can do this combo based on the fact that you cast sutra when CD is at 2 or 1,

    Sutra>>fow>> undine>>MS>>pyro>>whisper>>Gush>>pyro = this works good for clerics with low mdef

    If cleric is pure magic


    Sutra >> Fow >>undine >> Bt >>Pyro >>Whisper>>Gush >>pyro

    not if the cleric still got a flicker of life left might wanna Blink away and fow, it should be up by then and then do a small stone rain

    PS:~ above mentioned combo's are based on Sage wizard skills
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]


    I want to go back to the time when innocence was Natural, getting high meant, on a swing. Drinking meant lemonade. Dad was the only Hero. Love was Mom's hug. Dad's shoulder was the highest place on earth. Worst enemies were siblings.
    Hurts were Bleeding knees. Broken things were only Toys. Goodbyes meant only till tomorrow!

    Life has changed a lot ....

    Hasn't it .. ?? ..b:sad
  • SurferGirl - Dreamweaver
    SurferGirl - Dreamweaver Posts: 415 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    how i love when nooby wiz think fow give u 5 second to cast a ult... well its not

    fow start to affct as soon as u start to cast the skill not when u done cast it which means... u only got 3 second to cast a ult which is not enough inless u got nice chan gear so to all thos that think ..cleric is np ill just fow and bt. try to do it and u will see how he sleep u before the bt hits. there is a reason u see this high lvls wiz that keep tell u > sutra > fow > ult. cuz without the sutra u wont ever get to do it
  • Nukesrus - Harshlands
    Nukesrus - Harshlands Posts: 665 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Herne_Hunter - Sanctuary wrote: »
    @Sinopis try this out then


    3 Spark (while u do this cast cloud erruption (lvl 6 min))>> undine strike>>zooming thunder powder>> BT.

    Doesn't have to be level 6 CE. I have level 2 and get 1.5 sparks per cast.

    and basically, yeah, this is a formula for **** if you pop the apoth first.

    Immune to debuffs -> 3 spark -> undine -> Cloud Eruption -> BT -> One very dead cleric.


    Just don't **** up any hotkey presses, or you're boned.
  • Adroit - Lost City
    Adroit - Lost City Posts: 4,628 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Nukesrus - Harshlands wrote: »
    Doesn't have to be level 6 CE. I have level 2 and get 1.5 sparks per cast.

    and basically, yeah, this is a formula for **** if you pop the apoth first.

    Immune to debuffs -> 3 spark -> undine -> Cloud Eruption -> BT -> One very dead cleric.


    Just don't **** up any hotkey presses, or you're boned.

    ofc they could domain or simply put up plume shell, or wings of protection. Then you just wasted your apoth pot, all your chi, and most the energy on your genie. Brilliant.
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  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Adroit - Lost City wrote: »
    ofc they could domain or simply put up plume shell, or wings of protection. Then you just wasted your apoth pot, all your chi, and most the energy on your genie. Brilliant.

    this....
    me always suspected our "super combo" to be too easy to counter.....(if we has AD what be stopping them from using it....let alone other apothecary pots....)
    >.<'
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
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  • Nukesrus - Harshlands
    Nukesrus - Harshlands Posts: 665 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Adroit - Lost City wrote: »
    ofc they could domain or simply put up plume shell, or wings of protection. Then you just wasted your apoth pot, all your chi, and most the energy on your genie. Brilliant.

    Hey, I was correcting the issues I saw, not debating effectiveness. :P

    Throw in sleep, I guess, instead of undine. Though I guess you can still use domain while sleeping.

    I don't honestly know, I've never PvP'd against someone who used undine. They just kinda stood there and died.

    Blame it on the server, I guess.
  • Herne_Hunter - Sanctuary
    Herne_Hunter - Sanctuary Posts: 508 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Nukesrus - Harshlands wrote: »
    Doesn't have to be level 6 CE. I have level 2 and get 1.5 sparks per cast.

    and basically, yeah, this is a formula for **** if you pop the apoth first.

    Immune to debuffs -> 3 spark -> undine -> Cloud Eruption -> BT -> One very dead cleric.


    Just don't **** up any hotkey presses, or you're boned.

    the apoth and genie combo was basically not really meant to be done, i normally dont use genie or apoth in duels.... the OP was being a wee bit too smart just bty reading guides.....
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]


    I want to go back to the time when innocence was Natural, getting high meant, on a swing. Drinking meant lemonade. Dad was the only Hero. Love was Mom's hug. Dad's shoulder was the highest place on earth. Worst enemies were siblings.
    Hurts were Bleeding knees. Broken things were only Toys. Goodbyes meant only till tomorrow!

    Life has changed a lot ....

    Hasn't it .. ?? ..b:sad
  • Sinopis - Lost City
    Sinopis - Lost City Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Adroit - Lost City wrote: »
    ofc they could domain or simply put up plume shell, or wings of protection. Then you just wasted your apoth pot, all your chi, and most the energy on your genie. Brilliant.
    Plume Shell doesn't work against magic damage, only phy damage.

    And also why waste presious seconds with undine after sutra? Its already a 0 channel time and like 1 sec cast time. Seems liek a waste.
  • Adroit - Lost City
    Adroit - Lost City Posts: 4,628 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Sinopis - Lost City wrote: »
    Plume Shell doesn't work against magic damage, only phy damage.

    And also why waste presious seconds with undine after sutra? Its already a 0 channel time and like 1 sec cast time. Seems liek a waste.

    Did it ever occur to you that the physical aspect of BT is what arcane classes need to worry about? Or that halving the damage someone does (or more in this case) could be significant? I can't believe you are making a fool of yourself on the forums at 6x when you can be taking advantage of the double exp/spirit/drops event.

    undine is 1 sec channel .5 sec cast, and yes it would be a waste to use in sutra..
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  • SurferGirl - Dreamweaver
    SurferGirl - Dreamweaver Posts: 415 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Adroit - Lost City wrote: »
    Did it ever occur to you that the physical aspect of BT is what arcane classes need to worry about? Or that halving the damage someone does (or more in this case) could be significant? I can't believe you are making a fool of yourself on the forums at 6x when you can be taking advantage of the double exp/spirit/drops event.

    undine is 1 sec channel .5 sec cast, and yes it would be a waste to use in sutra..

    why do u even bother he clearly know best his 6x
    he will learn the hard way if he argue with higher and more exp then him wiz's
  • Shadowvzs - Lost City
    Shadowvzs - Lost City Posts: 877 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    ok i got the difference between genie freeze and stun.

    during stun u cant move and attack/cast but can use genie skills but during freeze u cant move/attack/use genie.
  • FireWizardEX - Dreamweaver
    FireWizardEX - Dreamweaver Posts: 463 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Shadowvzs - Lost City wrote: »
    ok i got the difference between genie freeze and stun.

    during stun u cant move and attack/cast but can use genie skills but during freeze u cant move/attack/use genie.

    uuuuhmmmm, no its wrong sry
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Shadowvzs - Lost City
    Shadowvzs - Lost City Posts: 877 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    FireWizardEX - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    uuuuhmmmm, no its wrong sry

    its spam category until u dont give any reason why wrong, or u tested the occult ice on urself with a friend? :)
  • blackmaster379
    blackmaster379 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    can someone help me a little bit how i can choose a class that's good for me?
    the guides that i've seen till now didn't help me much about the classes, so maybe you can help me? b:thanks
    ●Wizard (Male) - Fasditious and pretentious, carries the arrogance of intellectual superiority. Feels the need to remind everyone of his world-ending power, but grows a little manic and unhinged when he finally is allowed to unleash it. "Ahh-hahahahaha!! NOW YOU ALL BURN!!!!" ~ Kephras - HeavensTear.
  • Bowlinbob - Lost City
    Bowlinbob - Lost City Posts: 3,446 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    blackmaster379 wrote: »
    can someone help me a little bit how i can choose a class that's good for me?
    the guides that i've seen till now didn't help me much about the classes, so maybe you can help me? b:thanks

    play all of em til level 30 to get a decent feel for them, and go from there.
  • Adroit - Lost City
    Adroit - Lost City Posts: 4,628 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Shadowvzs - Lost City wrote: »
    ok i got the difference between genie freeze and stun.

    during stun u cant move and attack/cast but can use genie skills but during freeze u cant move/attack/use genie.

    you can always use genie skills. From what I've seen, it looks like stun = freeze.. although there may be some small difference I don't know about
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  • FireWizardEX - Dreamweaver
    FireWizardEX - Dreamweaver Posts: 463 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Shadowvzs - Lost City wrote: »
    its spam category until u dont give any reason why wrong, or u tested the occult ice on urself with a friend? :)

    u told freeze efect u didnt told ocult ice, isnt the same thing cuz actually the ocult ice does some type of stun instead of freeze
    Adroit - Lost City wrote: »
    you can always use genie skills. From what I've seen, it looks like stun = freeze.. although there may be some small difference I don't know about

    in freeze u cant move or do shrink skills but u can atk, in stun u cant move or use any skill,,,,,so easy
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Shadowvzs - Lost City
    Shadowvzs - Lost City Posts: 877 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    FireWizardEX - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    u told freeze efect u didnt told ocult ice, isnt the same thing cuz actually the ocult ice does some type of stun instead of freeze



    in freeze u cant move or do shrink skills but u can atk, in stun u cant move or use any skill,,,,,so easy

    no, dont was that accurated since dont have another genie freeze skill (where in ecatomb site use the freeze word)
    ok i got the difference between genie freeze and stun.
  • Adroit - Lost City
    Adroit - Lost City Posts: 4,628 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    FireWizardEX - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    u told freeze efect u didnt told ocult ice, isnt the same thing cuz actually the ocult ice does some type of stun instead of freeze



    in freeze u cant move or do shrink skills but u can atk, in stun u cant move or use any skill,,,,,so easy

    lol no. When you've been occult iced, you can't atk back sry. Pretty sure freeze and stun are basically the same thing
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