Wizards dueling clerics ... a mistake?

XMidKnight - Lost City

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

charms tick in duels? thats news to me
-20% fire resistance from sage d.pyro is not even close to replacing -60% from undine
I'm kinda surprised you're from a PvP server.. "(with full chi) = FoW - Sutra w/ EP + Frenzy - L11 Divine Pyro - Pyrogram - Blade Tempest" would be so easy to defeat (domain on BT or sleep after FoW runs out for a stupid example, if they are in the air they could simply drop etc).. is that really the best you could come up with to kill a cleric?

Err i meant PvP.

Its always worked for me.
If i try undineing a cleric they just sleep me immediately and purify. Thats why i open with FoW to try n seal them before i sleep. BT hits most robes with EP for about 5K+ withount undine and frenzy unless they have amazing gear which is about half their hp (1 shot with a crit)

Adroit - Lost City

Cholla - Harshlands wrote: »

Cleric debuff/sleep has several drawbacks, the big one being that it is very predictable.

Also, heart of steel will negate their attack, if you would be in danger of being a oneshot.

But I imagine surviving that will be much easier in open pvp than in duels. In open PvP, I am charmed, and I can help my charm recover using a tranquilizing orb and I have some other possibilities. In duels they have a three second advantage and a lot of our healing options do not work.

However, sutra trumps ironheart, in my experience.

And if they go all defensive or if you do not think you can deal with them, you can leave. Their only skill which can keep you from leaving is their sleep.

Plz don't tell me you have heart of steel on ur genie >.>

Your experience unfortunately is extremely limited because of your level. Things change with level.. so a cleric spam healing will not die from almost anything but a one shot. In most cases you wouldn't sutra while they are spam healing.. but you can bet during your sutra they are going to at the very least wellspring a couple times to live through it.

FireWizardEX - Dreamweaver

try kill a cleric in BB, it will take ages b:chuckle

Adroit - Lost City

FireWizardEX - Dreamweaver wrote: »

try kill a cleric in BB, it will take ages b:chuckle

You can always interrupt them with FoW or sleep..

Adroit - Lost City

Cholla - Harshlands wrote: »

I have leveled eight genies and I have started a few others.



I imagine that, by the time I am that level, force of will combined with channeling time on their wellspring means I get something like four seconds of sutra before their wellspring goes off?

that sounds about right.. If you had FoW followed my sutra you could probably get like 2-3 skills off before they could heal.

Adroit - Lost City

Cholla - Harshlands wrote: »

b:chuckle

That would be true if I was using the wrong skills.

wrong skills? The fastest skill you could use in sutra still had a .8 second cast time (pyro).. After you've used FoW (5 second seal but 2 seconds of that you are stuck casting it... so its 3 seconds where they can't attack and you can). So I'm missing how unreasonable 2-3 skills would be. Lets say you started with D.pyro (1 sec cast) followed by glacial snare (1.8 sec cast).. thats 2.8 seconds, and assuming you have absolutely 0 lag (which is impossible) you could probably get one more skill off before they have that wellspring going. Now lets say we are **** and use quick casting skills with sutra (kinda defeats the purpose).. pyro .8sec gush 1sec Crown of flames? 1sec (lol) thats again 2.8 seconds.. so theoretically you have a chance at a 4th skill.. but with the lag that is always there.. that will almost never happen (and using pyro -> gush -> CoF -> pyro isn't gonna kill a cleric anyway.. so ya). So I'm curious what you mean by using the "wrong skills".

SurferGirl - Dreamweaver

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

relying on a cleric to waste their sleep means you are relying on them sucking. Guess its a pve server thing.

Basically every idea you've mentioned relies on the other cleric sucking. When I think of a decent cleric.. they should have a MINIMUM of 7-8k hp and 8k pdef buffed... and even that is not very impressive (it is not unheard of to see clerics with 11k+ hp and 10k+ pdef buffed without crazy cash shop). They don't waste their sleep... and they self heal.. and they have domain.. It is really tough to kill a cleric that knows what they are doing 1v1... tbh the only ways I know how to stand a chance is with a sleep -> BT when they are at like 60% (usually this takes a while to do.. they will domain on your first attempt, so you gotta wait the next 2 mins for sleep to come off cooldown) or ofc a sutra BT/MS usually works unless they have some ridiculous inhuman reaction time. A good cleric just isn't gonna go down to a triple spark or gush/pyro or even a sutra with 4 regular skills.

Unless your other strategies are really different from what you have mentioned, I doubt they'd work on a real cleric >.>

mm lost city has some super cash shop clerics then the best geared cleric on dream waver has like 7k hp(without hp buff) full + 10 set with most hp stones etc

but i guess if the clerics there has that much hp the wiz's there also have the dmg to take them down..anyway idc whats goign on other servers as long as i beat most of the clerics on my own server cuz i wont be fighting lost city clerics and idc if u say pve server or w/e thats the server i play on and im good on it

also u missing the part where i say this isnt my best tactics its just one that idc to share the ones i really use for the bestest clerics i keep to myself i dont want every wiz on dream waver to start doing it i hate when ppl use tactics i came up with xD even tho ppl might thought about it before me i never saw a wiz using it so ye ill still keep it to myself

Shadowvzs - Lost City

SurferGirl - Dreamweaver wrote: »

mm lost city has some super cash shop clerics then the best geared cleric on dream waver has like 7k hp(without hp buff) full + 10 set with most hp stones etc

but i guess if the clerics there has that much hp the wiz's there also have the dmg to take them down..anyway idc whats goign on other servers as long as i beat most of the clerics on my own server cuz i wont be fighting lost city clerics and idc if u say pve server or w/e thats the server i play on and im good on it

this is cash shoped cleric and not con/vit build without any hp shard already 7,5k unbuffed

http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gx1KqFWr

SurferGirl - Dreamweaver wrote: »

also u missing the part where i say this isnt my best tactics its just one that idc to share the ones i really use for the bestest clerics i keep to myself i dont want every wiz on dream waver to start doing it i hate when ppl use tactics i came up with xD even tho ppl might thought about it before me i never saw a wiz using it so ye ill still keep it to myself

sorry but i must lol, why u must tell in every post u have a good tactic but u dont want tell?

then dont tell and thats all.........

its bs about my and his and x ppl made a tactic and others stoled or copied my tactic. its not a item or something, eveyrbody free to do any combo r something because dont ahve copyrighted combo in game.

i could use alot combo for defeating cleric and its allways very depend from situations too, combining a good combo everybody can do (in pvp server mainly if he do pvp too) who thinking a very little.

not offence but i dont see the point in that why u tell allways u have a "secret" and u dont want tell it, when we dont asked.

(and using pyro -> gush -> CoF -> pyro isn't gonna kill a cleric anyway.. so ya). So I'm curious what you mean by using the "wrong skills".

fow + sutra(same time genie spark[-90%+]+extremity posion)+d. pyro+pyrogram+phoenix+d.pyro could be work in duel

drmarley

Nukesrus - Harshlands wrote: »

That's why you run until they stop playing and start typing. :P

Usually, though, I gush the cleric for a tiny bit of damage, then let them sleep me. Then, I just sleep + seal them until it wears of and pray BT doesn't get interrupted and that their 79 skills are on cooldown.

You realize any decent cleric would just use Silence Seal and paralyze you for ~20 seconds (can't remember the exact duration of the skill off the top of my head).

Bowlinbob - Lost City

drmarley wrote: »

You realize any decent cleric would just use Silence Seal and paralyze you for ~20 seconds (can't remember the exact duration of the skill off the top of my head).

silent seal doesnt paralyze.. it just makes a person unable to move, they can still attack and both sleep + seal have an "up to" duration, meaning it wont always last for x seconds, it may just last for 1or up to 30 seconds <_<.

drmarley

Bowlinbob - Lost City wrote: »

silent seal doesnt paralyze.. it just makes a person unable to move, they can still attack and both sleep + seal have an "up to" duration, meaning it wont always last for x seconds, it may just last for 1or up to 30 seconds <_<.

Paralyze
1. To affect with paralysis; cause to be paralytic.
2. To make unable to move or act: paralyzed by fear.
3. To impair the progress or functioning of; make inoperative or powerless: strict regulations that paralyze economic activity.

You're thinking stun mate; they were saying they'd just run away from the cleric - the obvious countermeasure would be to paralyze them.

Based on experience that seal rarely lasts under 15 seconds (I've never seen it last under 10).

Bowlinbob - Lost City

drmarley wrote: »

You realize any decent cleric would just use Silence Seal and paralyze you for ~20 seconds (can't remember the exact duration of the skill off the top of my head).

^ the above would have no effect on a mage unless the mage was running away. It is you who is mistaking silent seal for a stun. Which it is not....

I know what the word paralyze means, as ive stated seal isnt a full paralyze since they can still move their arms to cast spells if you want to get technical with definitions..............

drmarley wrote: »

Paralyze
2. To make unable to move or act: paralyzed by fear.

they can still act...... so its not a paralyze, gg.

drmarley

Bowlinbob - Lost City wrote: »

^ the above would have no effect on a mage unless the mage was running away. It is you who is mistaking silent seal for a stun. Which it is not....

I know what the word paralyze means, as ive stated seal isnt a full paralyze since they can still move their arms to cast spells if you want to get technical with definitions..............

I'm NOT saying it's a stun bob - I'm saying it paralyzes - it stops the target from moving. Did you read the original post I quoted saying any wizard would just kite so that the cleric would interrupt his IH spam?

Paralyze = Keep them from moving
Stun = Keep them from doing anything

Edit: I guess the better terminology would be snare if you want to get down to semantics.

Bowlinbob - Lost City

drmarley wrote: »

Did you read the original post I quoted saying any wizard would just kite so that the cleric would interrupt his IH spam?

Im pretty sure if a mage decided to run, they would distance shrink first, making our seal out of reach. Everything is situational tho.

FireWizardEX - Dreamweaver

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

You can always interrupt them with FoW or sleep..

strange did that 1 time and didnt worked Oo
maybe is cuz my fow isnt maxed, huh?

Shadowvzs - Lost City wrote: »

fow + sutra(same time genie spark[-90%+]+extremity posion)+d. pyro+pyrogram+phoenix+d.pyro could be work in duel

that would work agains any cleric where charm is in CT,
which is hard to do cuz when clerics see they charm is down they most of the time start IH herself, and alot of tricks can stop this combo if teh cleric is paying attention , just like absulute domain....

is hard to kill a nice geared cleric, u will need a good refined weapon.

Kristoph - Lost City

Cholla - Harshlands wrote: »

I believe some wizards can break out of freeze (without using any genie skills). [I can not, because I am not high enough level, so I can not guarantee that I am accurate, here.]

You can't break out.. but you can distance shrink. Only paralyze I know of I can't distance shrink in is Aim Low.

Shadowvzs - Lost City

FireWizardEX - Dreamweaver wrote: »

that would work agains any cleric where charm is in CT,
which is hard to do cuz when clerics see they charm is down they most of the time start IH herself, and alot of tricks can stop this combo if teh cleric is paying attention , just like absulute domain....

is hard to kill a nice geared cleric, u will need a good refined weapon.

this is stillduel thread, or i am lost?

in duel dont have charm...

Shadowvzs - Lost City

Cholla - Harshlands wrote: »

I know that I can not.

I also know that sage spark removes debuffs for some classes.

I do not know if that works for wizards, and I do not know if demon spark would have this property.

every spark remove from every every class any debuff and both give +20
% max mana(physical class hp) only difference just the speed or defence in both 8 class.

physical class (archer.barb,bm,sin) sage = 25% absorb dmg, 500% eq and 20% max hp, self purify
physical class (archer.barb,bm,sin) demon = 25% attack speed dmg, 500% eq and 20% max hp, self purify
mages (psyhic,cleric, wizzard) sage = 25% absorb 700% eq and 20% max mp, self purify
mages (psyhic,cleric, wizzard) demon = -25% casting 700% eq and 20% max mp, self purify

veno a bit difference in eq dmg view but rest is same.

littlewg24

Altho clerics are hard to beat in pvp I did find one strategy effective when fighting them.Before the duel starts they will basically ironheart to oblivion lol.Soon as the duel starts most clerics will have stacked ironheart a lot in the countdown and will probably try to sleep you now.BEFORE you start the duel make sure u have sparks available or this is no help to you and you might be screwed:P start the duel off with force of will then while there unable to attack use bladetempest.Or you can use force of the will and then use sutra and get in gush,divine pyrogram,dragons breath,and maybe a heal..Those are the only tactics that really worked for me and I have beat plenty of clerics my lvl but never ones higher lvl..blasted clerics lol,Hope the tactic helps gl.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

littlewg24 wrote: »

Altho clerics are hard to beat in pvp I did find one strategy effective when fighting them.Before the duel starts they will basically ironheart to oblivion lol.Soon as the duel starts most clerics will have stacked ironheart a lot in the countdown and will probably try to sleep you now.BEFORE you start the duel make sure u have sparks available or this is no help to you and you might be screwed:P start the duel off with force of will then while there unable to attack use bladetempest.Or you can use force of the will and then use sutra and get in gush,divine pyrogram,dragons breath,and maybe a heal..Those are the only tactics that really worked for me and I have beat plenty of clerics my lvl but never ones higher lvl..blasted clerics lol,Hope the tactic helps gl.

Dragons breath? In duel? b:shocked

FireWizardEX - Dreamweaver

littlewg24 wrote: »

Altho clerics are hard to beat in pvp I did find one strategy effective when fighting them.Before the duel starts they will basically ironheart to oblivion lol.Soon as the duel starts most clerics will have stacked ironheart a lot in the countdown and will probably try to sleep you now.BEFORE you start the duel make sure u have sparks available or this is no help to you and you might be screwed:P start the duel off with force of will then while there unable to attack use bladetempest.Or you can use force of the will and then use sutra and get in gush,divine pyrogram,dragons breath,and maybe a heal..Those are the only tactics that really worked for me and I have beat plenty of clerics my lvl but never ones higher lvl..blasted clerics lol,Hope the tactic helps gl.

OH REALLY? b:shocked

Taarloor - Harshlands

Undine>Force of Will>Extreme Poison>Blade Tempest> Pray for crit > Profit?b:laugh

Blade tempest crit will kill 90% of clerics ur level, so go get lunar rings and event boots asap ;p

littlewg24

oops I just realized i put dragons breath..I was typing so fast I didnt even realize that i put that..lol sorry about that.*thinks of the last time i saw a wizzie using dragons breath in pvp on a cleric*b:shocked I actually meant will of the phoenix not dragons breath tho:P

KevinK - Sanctuary

There are certain rules about clerics you first need to understand:
1) Iron heart heals them ONCE every 3 seconds no matter how many iron hearts are stacked.
2) Our seals are faster than cleric's sleep.
It's easy to plan our attacks against clerics if you know that their spells heal once every 3 seconds. For instance, a cleric casts iron heart and he's 2 seconds into iron heart. It takes us 2 seconds to cast gush. That means by the time we cast gush, there will be 2 seconds left until the next "heal". The cleric would heal up by the time you cast your next spell. Knowing this, it is best to use a big spike damage spell (glacial spike, sandstorm, etc). Take sandstorm for instance: It takes 4 seconds to cast. The best use of sandstorm is to start casting when the cleric is 2 seconds into iron heart, because by the time you cast sandstorm, the clerics ironheart interval would be on the 0 count. That leaves you an extra 3 seconds before the next "heal" comes up. But by then, you'd damage enough that the heals won't be able to keep up. Of course I don't mean you kill the cleric before the next heal interval, for that would be very hard. What i mean is, don't waste your time on your FIRST attack with small spells like gush, when you can make use of the long cast time of a bigger opening move for bigger damage in the beginning so that the cleric's heals won't be able to keep up with your next chain of attacks.

Dueling clerics gets pretty easy once you get a hang of it. Know that their cast time for sleep is longer than our Force of Will. Know that, with the right combination of Sutra, we can deplete their hp faster than iron heart can heal. This, combined with our level 79 skills is very deadly.

This, of course, is only practical in standoff duels. PK is a different story. Although the same tactics do apply, their healing capabilities will outshine since they will be using items. Therefore, we must use items. The tactic for PK is to have everything set up then UNLOAD. It's not pve, where we simply poke and poke monsters until they die. To pk efficiently, you must have everything cooled down, then use your best combos to deplete their hp as fast as you can.
Tips:
1) Memorize your hotkey bar.
2) Practice using your hotkeys to develope a fast reaction.
3)Create skill combos. Wizards are the most versatile in using skill combos, that's why they're so hard and fun to use.
4)Use apothecary pots and think of them as tools to survive OR kill faster.

Anywho, these are just general tips. No amount of words can really help. You need to practice for yourself to acquire pk skills.

Jedeye - Dreamweaver

LMFAO!!!!!! Obviously if you saw 200 damage, that cleric didnt' have plume shell up. It was Wings of Protection. Doubting your wizard against a cleric is a disgrace. I don't fear clerics one bit. Clerics will bow to the sheer power that is a wizard.

heybigbadj

Well, duels are for noobs anyway. In pk, if you get the jump on a cleric, use 3 spark chi pot and BT and boom hit them for like 15k end game. Or, if they aware you are coming, wait til after they waste their sleep on you then sleep them with wiz 79 skill, 3 spark, then seal, chi pot and sutra with your strongest moves.

Jertor - Sanctuary

cleric that heal i try and 1shot or try a sutra bt combo usulaly works :P but u need 3 sparks :P

PrettySammy - Sanctuary

Oh reading this thread is a laugh. OK why are people so uptight about this.

1) General: unless you hard core PK'er your not facing off against clerics too often.

2) TW: you shouldn't be killing clerics unless your planner is really stupid

3) TW (again): If you do see clerics in TW in a nice pile, yeah they probably too busy healing etc to give a rats about you. Drop BT on their heads and move to next victim

4) Duels: if the self heal move away as other have said till it wears off. Longest this has ever lasted was 2 minute when the cleric got peeved and went all attack and I blew his head off.

5) PK: Hit and run or gank. Seriously find what works for you and go with it. No set answer.

6) Gear: Sorry only a partial factor; a ace Wizards fighting a noobish Cleric over compensating with zen cash shop to cover their flaw you should still beat. If they are good and have cash shop, well thats whats called a challenge.

7) People lv 1: yeah I just ignore your posts if your not even going to show how or why you can talk about this I moving on after a quick yawn and a LOL.

8) Get your own back: If clerics just self heal in duel, sleep em DS away, hit them with any skill that slows or freezes, make them even slower. Finally then annoy them by healing yourself, and then sutra boosting them straight to hell.

9) They are robe wears: No excuse this is why there are amp and debuff skills, acquire us end of story.

Herne_Hunter - Sanctuary

PrettySammy - Sanctuary wrote: »

4) Duels: if the self heal move away as other have said till it wears off. Longest this has ever lasted was 2 minute when the cleric got peeved and went all attack and I blew his head off.

Clerics seal you first and then heal themself, and until the cleric hits you the seal doesnt wear off, and it definitely got a timer on it but its enough to get hp back to full, the only thing they do is 3 spark and do damage specially plume shot.


there are 2 ways i normally killed clerics succesfully, based on the facts that it was a duel,

Sutra>Fow>Undine>Ms>Pyro>Whisper>gush/Pyro

OR

Sutra>Fow>Undine>BT>Pyro>Whisper>Gush/Pyro



anther thing i noticed about clerics in duels is, just as they are like down to 30% HP they seal and heal themself, so its best to wait till there HP is about 50%

then

2 Spark> fow>Sutra>undine>DP>GS>Sandstorm you they should be dead by this too prolly even in PK.

well thats how i do it. there are many more wizzies with more comboes ..

Sinopis - Lost City

Undine + Elementral Sutra + Force of Will + Blade Tempest = Insta win.


/End Tread