Sage Wizard VS Demon Wizard : the full thread

JaneGray - Lost City wrote: »

I'm just wondering, I hear a lot about demon being more 'one-on-oneish' while sage is more for tw's. Why is this? I'm more interested in going demon so please let me know. Thanks!

Demon fast channeling.
Sage =....sage BIDS.
b:surrender

Konariraiden - Heavens Tear wrote: »

One reason. Sage BIDS.

Gotta love those magical criticals.

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p114/DarkSol01/Critproc.jpg
b:surrender

storehammy wrote: »

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p114/DarkSol01/Critproc.jpg
b:surrender

hmm... wonder how many people started throwing their keyboards and cursing out from that one...

MY VERSION:

Pyrogram

Sage: 20% for +30 chi
Demon: channeling=1.2 secs.

Personal: Definitely Demon.

Pyroshell

Sage:+150% fire res (not 120%); +12 hp regen
Demon:HP regen=15 (not 12); +120% fire res

Personal: Demon.

Crown of Flame

Sage: 6546.95 damage over 15 secs (436 each second)
Demon: 5693 damage over 12 secs (474 each second)

Personal: Definitely Demon.

Divine Pyrogram

Sage: enemy also loses 20% fire res
Demon: channeling=2.5 secs (not 3)

Personal: Definitely Demon.

The Dragon's Breath

Sage: 20% chance to stun
Demon: 25% to gain 500 HP

Personal: Definitely Sage.

Will of the Pheonix

Sage: cooldown=7 secs (not 8)
Demon: increases the AoE of the skill by 50%

Personal: Definitely Demon. Will of Phoenix is already pretty fast to begin with, but that 50% area of effect is awesome.

Emberstorm

Sage: reduces damage taken by 25%
Demon: 50% chance to stun for 3 secs

Personal: DEFINITELY Demon.

Blade Tempest

Sage: 50% chance to cast with only 1 spark
Demon: 50% chance to cancel current skill of target.

Personal: Personal Preference I would say. I'd prefer Demon because what am I gonna use 1 spark for? If I'm having enough time to get another spark or two to do another ulti, then I should have already killed him/her or they shoulda killed me. But tie.

Fire Mastery

Sage: +25% fire dmg (not 20%)
Demon: +1% critrate.

Personal: Sage.

Gush

Sage: slow effect(8)+1 second
Demon: +600 water damage

Personal: I would prefer 600 extra damage EVERY SINGLE TIME I cast it (and I cast gush a LOT) then sometimes slow them a bit more and for only one more second, so Demon.

Glacial Embrace

Sage: 150% Water res (not 120%); +12 mp regen
Demon: +15 mp regen (not 12); + 120% water res

Personal: Demon.

Morning Dew

Sage: 10% chance to fully heal.
Demon: +600 hp healed over 9 secs.

Personal: 10% is far to rare, Demon FTW.

Frostblade

Sage: 30 min duration (not 15)
Demon: +50% Water dmg (not 40%)

Personal: Demon PWNS this all over the place. 50%... damn. And who cares if I have to click it every 15 minutes, it takes like 1 second to cast the thing.

Glacial Snare

Sage: -20% water res for target
Demon: 2.1 sec channel (not 2.5)

Personal: Definitely demon.

Black Ice Dragon Strike

Sage: 50% chance to increase cirtrate by 30%(!!!) for 10 secs
Demon: 20% chance to cast without a spark

Personal: DEFINITELY Sage. But I want to talk a little about this spell. Sure everyone has seen Haiz's video (God bless him...) and yes, I will admit, Sage Bidds when it happens is **** AMAZING. But let's do the math.

50% to only have 30% Crit rate for 10 seconds. If you do the math correctly that's about (roughly) 16%. So 16% you will hit a crit with BIDS (which already takes nearly forever to cast...) and realize OH SHT I HAVE CRIT FOR 10 SECONDS. In about 10 seconds you can cast maybe 3 spells, give or take 1 depending on which ones you use. So for those 2-4 spells that you cast you will hit a crit, and probably kill anything. That's good. That's pretty good, but it's not as good as people think. It would take a lot of skill to cast BIDS and immediately know you have crit, then select 3 other people and cast 3 other crits on them. I think this is good, don't get me wrong, but I don't think that it's a reason to go sage. It's only 16%. That means when if your in a TW and you kill 100 people, you'll definitely kill 16 people and maybe 5-10 more (IF and only if your able to select someone else and crit them... and IF and only IF you kill everyone you select with one shot...) while the other 84 people NOTHING will happen, except you just casted an ulti, wasted sparks, and don't have any left. IJS.

Water Mastery

Sage: +25% water dmg (not 20%)
Demon: +1% critrate.

Personal: Sage.

Hailstorm

Sage: doubles the damage if freezing suceeds.
Demon: 50% chance to freeze (not 33%)

Personal: DEFINITELY DEFINITELY DEFINITELY Demon FTW. Every other time you cast it you'd be freezing someone, which guess what, ENABLES MORE TIME TO CAST MORE DAMAGE. Sage only doubles the damage of a crappy spell to begin with only 1/3 of the times.

Stone Rain

Sage: 1.6 sec channeling (not 2)
Demon: 20% chance to stun target for 5 secs

Personal: Although I like the 1/5 chance to stun, 1/5 is not too often, so I'd say Sage here.

Stone Barrier

Sage: +150% earth res (not 120%); +120% pdef
Demon: +150% pdef (not 120%); +120% earth res

Personal: Are you serious? Jumping up from 120% Pdef to 150? OMFGHAXORZWTHROTFLMAO. That's crazy good. That's awesome good. That means against ALL classes that aren't magic (which are a lot, barbs, archers, bms OH MY...) you'd be defended an additional 30% pdef. Think about it, how often do you cast Stone Barrier before entering a BH/RB/TW/FB... umm, everything? Always.

Pitfall

Sage: -20% speed to target (not 15%); +15% chance to freeze
Demon: 33% chance to freeze (not 15%); -15% speed to target

Personal: Demon FTW.

Sandstorm

Sage: -accuracy effect(10)+5 secs
Demon: +1.2k earth dmg

Personal: Same as gush. Sure it's not too much more damage, but that's 1,200 extra damage EVERY SINGLE TIME YOU CAST IT. And if your like me (at least at my level) Sandstorm is my bomb spell, so I always use it at least once.

Force of Will

Sage: +3m AoE
Demon: (20)-2 channeling

Personal: Demon > 1v1 and Sage > ?v1, so tie.

Mountain's Seize

Sage: 50% chance to cast without a spark
Demon: (30)+5 range

Personal: I don't use this too often except when I wanna see a cool spell, but I'd say Demon, once again, because it's a pretty powerful attack to begin with, and with all that range you could cause some damage.

Earth Mastery

Sage: +25% earth dmg (not 20%)
Demon: +1% critrate

Personal: Sage.

NOTE: when looking down at all masterys in total, its +15% dmg on fire/water/earth for sage, against 3% crit for demon. if the critrate of demon works with all spells, it could be rather badass. but ionno.

NOTE 2: I agree, sage wins over masteries.

Distance Shrink

Sage: (20)-10 chi cost
Demon: (30)+5m teleport

Personal: I personally don't think it's that important to be able to distance shrink all over the damn place unless your in a TW, but if your not an extra 5 meters of a jump is nice. That's a little bit more time to cast a spell. The sage version is nice as well, but wizards are the hardest hitting class in the game, I don't think they should be zig zagging all over the place to avoid getting hit, they should be HITTING the opponent and wiping them out quick. So I think this one is a personal preference. Tie.

Wellspring Quaff

Sage: +100% Matk for 15 secs.
Demon: -20% channeling time for 15 secs.

Personal: Both are nice, but if with extra 20% time decreased, you can cast a lot more spells, so Demon. Shorter time - more spells = quicker death. It doesn't matter if it does more damage if you die before you can even cast it.

Spark (you forgot this one...)

Sage: 700% weapon damage and reduce all damage taken by 25% for 15 seconds.
Demon: 700% weapon damage and increase casting speed by 25% for 15 seconds.

Personal: DAMN. 25% Less channelling time? DEMON FTW baby! Cast BOOM cast BOOM cast BOOM. (With extra 700% damage...) Demon, hell to the mtherfcking yeah.

Overall: Demon obviously wins (from my perspective). You have better channelling, more damage, and the 150% pdef is, at least for me, enough to go Demon. Sage is nice for 3 things, Chi, BIDS, and masteries. But keep in mind masteries are only 15% of the time, which means that 85% of the other time nothing will happen. Sure it's not better than a slightly elevated crit rate (oh wait, it is...) but it's not that much of a difference, and at least you can DEPEND on learning to play without those masteries. Chi is nice of course but only during TWs when you can cast ultis... and ulties take so long to cast in the first place! I'd only use all that chi for casting sparks... but if your sage then your just gonna get more defense. BIDS is awesome but not all it's hyped up to be, sure it can kill 15 people at once, but think about it this way, it's either 1/6 to cast crit for SAGE BIDS, or 1/5 to cast with saving a spark. The more you play and pk/tw or whatever, those numbers are gonna climb higher than each other. For instance, if you kill 100 people and are demon, 20 of those times you get a free spark, but if you kill 100 people and are sage, you've gotten that crit for 10 seconds 16 of them. A thousand = 200 times with spark, and 160 times with crit, so the numbers split off the more you play. I definitely am going Demon. But I would like to know why most people think you should go sage if your a wiz. I just don't understand why people think this way.

Sage: 4
Demon: 18
Ties/Undecided: 3

Amouriv - Dreamweaver wrote: »

blah blah blah from failz LA mage who went psychic !

Hope this helps jane yada yada yada...

All these coming from you.... though I agree on Sage masteries are always active and it will help more on the long run.

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

lmao you're an idiot

sorry, i dont like undining my target every 12 seconds, it really annoys me. Ya, it channels fast and everything, but a second i waste undining is a second i couldve been nuking.

pitfall....why are we arguing about DoTs, i keep mine at level 1 and they are staying there.

barriers, that 30% pdef doesnt make much of a difference. I know wizards with lvl 10 barriers who can get 9k-10k pdef easy. 30% more pdef isnt a huge culti changing decision for me imo

hailstorm
-i like it how it is, it works and i learned to use it as a hit or miss thing(if it doesnt proc, too bad, if it does, yipee!)

wellspring
-ninja spark!

nix
if i get the sage/demon version of this, i will put it in the AH. I dont really ever use this skill. Rarely in FC, if i can aoe the mobs into a wall and everything else is in cooldown.

Giodia - Heavens Tear wrote: »

All these coming from you.... though I agree on Sage masteries are always active and it will help more on the long run.

I never wanted to go LA, but because i was on a new server i had to do it in order to rebirth(they wouldnt take arcanes unless they had like 50+ vit and im anti-vit). I made it work for me and its bearable. I went to psy because its the kind of class i wanted to play. Deal high damage while still being useful. The jack of all trades thing is appealing to me and its a magic class :P

Nothing can be better, that have enough chi. Chi is key to success. If nothing else I'm totally independent of mana now. No more mana pots, or charm, or apothecary. It's huge advantage over demon. Thanks to genie cloud eruption, master li technique, sage pyro, elemental shell. I can 3spark very often, which gives me 20% mana back. Which is 2800 mana back in my case. I'm little afraid, when I will obtain -channeling gear. I will spend more mana for second. Then maybe I will need again few mana pots.

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

lmao you're an idiot

Krisotph, why do u need to prove that u think demon is better than sage, and opinions about sage are wrong? Maybe coz u dont want others to get what u missed on? I dont see any other reason why ur so pissed off that u start cursing at sage lovers...b:bye

I do not know if its said already, am too lazy to check the whole thread b:surrender but I dont agree with you about the sage wellspring quaff.

I am a lvl93 sage wiz, and i have that skill. When i bought it I thought it would give 100% more damage, what would be amazing. But when I learned it, I ended up with getting just 100% more equipment value damage, what really sucks. Single spark eruption gives more +damage and costs just as much chi. As sage/demon wellspring quaff also doesnt increase your mp more than the lvl10 skill, there is IMO no reason to spend money and spirit on this skill. I dont know if we do more damage in the same time with the -channeling time demon version gives than with the +dmg single spark eruption gives, so I am definately not saying demon wellspring is worth learning.

Also, about sage DB, I heard the stuns make you have more aggro in Delta, wich kills you unless you have a very good barb to protect you. I dont have this skill and I havent done delta yet due to connection problems, but I wont buy this skill (if i ever get enough money, lol) untill I am done with all my Delta quests or untill some wizard proves that sage DB does not give you more mobs trying to kill you.
Ofcourse this doesnt make demon better than sage if you look at just the skills itself and not the way they are used, but it is a big con.


And you said hailstorm is a stupid skill anyways. I do absolutely not agree. True, the dmg is low compared to most of our other skills, but it is a nice extra aoe in case you are out of chi, I use it alot when aoe grinding with my bm hubby and when I have no chi in FCC etc.

edit: My equipment isn't that awesome atm, so maybe if you spend alot of money on it and you got amazing stuff, sage wellspring is worth it. But I think you can better spend the money you spend on this skill on even better equipment. Not sure though, no time for complicated calculations now.

Shadowvzs - Lost City wrote: »

DB usefull when u aoeing somewhere and want gain a bit more time what is nice when with a lv10 skill hard to survive,this would a bit help,similiar like demon DB, but this interupt the others skills too (overall its similiar,another heal u directly,this give a bit time for ep, who heal u)

I dont think you really understood what I tried to say about sage DB. It makes you have alot of mobs wanting to kill you >.> so even when it stuns 1/5 of the mobs, you will still take more damage than when you dont have all this aggro. At least, thats what I heard about sage DB. Ofcourse it is also possible that you get aggro with a lvl10 DB anyways, in that case getting the sage version would be good because it stuns and gives you a little bigger chance to survive than without the stuns.

I think it all depends on how good the barb is poor barbs

Shadowvzs - Lost City wrote: »

in 70-85 i already got the agro with lv7 DB(this is why i dont lved only later this skill) too when archer got lv9 aoe so dont do big different

at 8x i started zhen with 1priest+1lurer, i got enough def and hp for zhening on spider or when i zhened on 8x elite water mobs then the stun could be awasome when u have a lower lv cleric heal slave (when i zhened on 5x 8x elite water mob i got only a lv77 cleric), there you dont get more agro with stun, because u take all agro anyway

anthoer think the stun is kind'a revange when in 86+ the mobs stunning too XD

most ppl do delta only after lvl90... its kinda deadly, i heard b:shocked And i was talking about delta, not about zhenning in other places.

but you are right that when, if you get aggro from a good barb with lvl10 DB anyways, you can better get the sage version. But in delta the barb and bm should be able to keep the aggro away from you, right... at least with a non-sage DB. I can't say much about delta because I haven't done it yet, but I've heard alot about it and a wizard should be able to survive with a lvl10 DB and a good squad.

I agree about the revenge part ^^

ay4 wrote: »

erm and what about using lvl11 db and if you see you get agro you just put off your weapon. the dmg goes down but the usefull stuns from db remain and give some time for the other partymember to shot down the mobs. wrong suggestion?

that would indeed be the first thing I would do after getting all the aggro... but I dont know if it isnt too late then. and maybe you can just better have a lvl10 DB with weapon than a sage one without weapon alot of times.

/Groovy/ - Harshlands wrote: »

You might want to finish off some lucky survivors, why not try Sage Hailstorm which deals double damage if freeze processes (33%), deals double damage if you crit rate processes (40% after BIDS) or quadruple damage if both effects process b:chuckle

btw sage hailstorm is worded wrong. the effect is a crappy water dot.

Trancesend - Harshlands wrote: »

Krisotph, why do u need to prove that u think demon is better than sage, and opinions about sage are wrong? Maybe coz u dont want others to get what u missed on? I dont see any other reason why ur so pissed off that u start cursing at sage lovers...b:bye

A.) Kris is playing a holy mage. b:victory

B.) 1/2 of Miz's points are unnecessary & come off rather band-waggonish (especially considering he's never played to the 89 culti)

c.) Kristoph is naturally disposed to be both blunt and mean. b:surrender

Devoted - Lost City wrote: »

btw sage hailstorm is worded wrong. the effect is a crappy water dot.

...

Q___Q


I guess it's still nice to use after BIDS, the only AoE which doesn't need sparks...


Ps. Dumb translators -_-"