Close Range Penalty Should be Removed?

SneakyStalk - Harshlands · September 2009

So, we have seen the thread "I should have chosen another class" and stuff.
A few archers and other classes state that our class is the weakiest class.

So, with an expansion coming, would it be fair if the close range damage penalty should be removed? I think a very large poll where archers can leave their opinions about it should be useful, right?

If you still don't know what Close Range Damage Penalty is, try to hit a mob from your max range and you'll hit lets say X damage. If the mob is next to you, you will only do X/2 damage at most. No other class have that penalty.

Im just afraid that when I reach higher lvl and start PvPing its gonna be difficult, since many archers claims we are in disadvantage.

LordSnow - Lost City · September 2009

wtf are you talking about.................... how are archers the weakest class???

On my archer mobs dont even get close enough to me where the damage penalty can take effect. You obviously suck at this class if you are having that much trouble.

SilvePhoenix - Heavens Tear · September 2009

i would love it if they did-its hard enough to level as it is, and no matter how i try i wind up with the mob in my face eventually. so im farming rhinos atm, and seeing some progress that way. at least they dont want to get close either!

SneakyStalk - Harshlands wrote: »

So, we have seen the thread "I should have chosen another class" and stuff.
Every possible archer and every possible class agrees when they state that our class is the weakiest class. It doesnt matter if you go Pure, Hybrid, Magic or whatever, we are still the weakiest class.

So, with an expansion coming, wouldnt it be fair if the close range damage penalty should be removed? I think a very large poll where archers can leave their opinions about it should be useful, right?

If you still don't know what Close Range Damage Penalty is, try to hit a mob from your max range and you'll hit lets say 2X damage. If the mob is next to you, you will only do X damage at most. No other class have that penalty.

I didnt post in General Discussion because obviously the other classes might QQ about it and vote "No", but I trust GM's would carry our thoughts and suggestions to the developers.

Please leave your thoughs and vote because this might be the chance that we finally have a bearable life. I know it does not sound logic that the damage from an archer is consistent no matter distance but its not logic that either Pandas, Lions and Wolves transform in White Tigers, right?

deli · September 2009

Well pwi have no power to change the close range penalty, the devs is Beijing Perfect World.
I voted yes because that would just strengthen the classb:laugh, even though at higher level u will mostly manage to hold a distance between u and ur enemy (even in pvp) Plus u always have 4 skills that isn't affected by the damage penalty - if u always use these 4 skills when the target get too close, it will be like u have no damage penalty at all

Btw i dont see ppl claim that archers are in clear disadvantage, at least not before 90

SneakyStalk - Harshlands · September 2009

LordSnow - Lost City wrote: »

wtf are you talking about.................... how are archers the weakest class???

On my archer mobs dont even get close enough to me where the damage penalty can take effect. You obviously suck at this class if you are having that much trouble.

I dont have trouble. Im just afraid that when I reach high lvl and start PvPing its gonna be difficult, since every possible archer claims archers are in clear disadvantage.

Why wouldnt an archer want that to be removed? Knockback doesnt work on PvP, it amazes me that you havent noticed that coming from PvP server. Well, it really looks like you are speaking from another class voice, not from your archer.

SneakyStalk - Harshlands · September 2009

deli wrote: »

Well pwi have no power to change the close range penalty, the devs is Beijing Perfect World.
I voted yes because that would just strengthen the classb:laugh, even though at higher level u will mostly manage to hold a distance between u and ur enemy Plus u always have 4 skills that isn't affected by the damage penalty - if u always use these 4 skills when the target get too close, it will be like u have no damage penalty at all

EDIT: You might be right, but its better to try.

And yes, we have some skills with no damage penalty, but they are not the best we have. Most skills that are useful against heavy armor dont work bc they are melee. Frost Arrow, Winged Shell and ThunderShock (which makes effective non close penalty skills) require Chi, so one of your sparks is in danger. WingedShell and DeadlyShot will be long term deadly for the own archer due to channeling and non optimized damage dealt by the time enemy reaches you.

deli · September 2009

SneakyStalk - Harshlands wrote: »

EDIT: You might be right, but its better to try.

And yes, we have some skills with no damage penalty, but they are not the best we have. Most skills that are useful against heavy armor dont work bc they are melee. Frost Arrow, Winged Shell and ThunderShock (which makes effective non close penalty skills) require Chi, so one of your sparks is in danger. WingedShell and DeadlyShot will be long term deadly for the own archer due to channeling and non optimized damage dealt by the time enemy reaches you.

Against melee, its more about skills (how u play).
But at least 3 of the classes are long range classes that dont use heavy. Archers aren't in disadvantage when they shot from long range and they have a good chance killing casters, at least until 90.
Against melee classes, u should avoid to get in close distance to them anyway. Frost Arrow, Stunning Arrow, Aim Low are quite good to hold ppl at distance, u will also have to kite alot. U wont run out of chi that easy if u started out with full. When u have done ur culti 59, u will have 2 sparks and 99 chi, and when u have done ur culti89, u will have 3 sparks and 99 chi.

Anyway, i dont really mind about damage penalty, but it would still be nice to remove it in order to do us op (:

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · September 2009

SneakyStalk - Harshlands wrote: »

So, we have seen the thread "I should have chosen another class" and stuff.
Every possible archer and every possible class agrees when they state that our class is the weakiest class. It doesnt matter if you go Pure, Hybrid, Magic or whatever, we are still the weakiest class.

They are fail archers. Even the game says their top notch DD. It is like those nub clerics on the forum saying cleric is hard cause they die everytime when in fact its just their own lack of attentiveness to watch the screen and radar for near popping mobs.

So, with an expansion coming, wouldnt it be fair if the close range damage penalty should be removed? I think a very large poll where archers can leave their opinions about it should be useful, right?

If you still don't know what Close Range Damage Penalty is, try to hit a mob from your max range and you'll hit lets say 2X damage. If the mob is next to you, you will only do X damage at most. No other class have that penalty.

This is so dumb i dont even know where to start. Id include it in my sig if the last 2 days didnt provide even DUMBER quotes.
No other classes have that penalty because guess what? WE NO HAVE DAT 2X BONUS TO START OFF WITH! b:shocked *gasp* This is a perfect example of wanting to keep your cake and eating it at the same time.
You got highest crits, you got fastest DPS, you even got 2x bonus on distance, your got LA and HA gear for the norm for good pdef, and a decent evation rate and your asking for MOAR? Try roll a class that has a decent attack (and decent i mean by below archer/wizz dmg), lowest HP, absolutely no evasion, low DEF (even LA), does NOT have a KNOCKBACK skill, and are bashed to the ground and ridiculed if they put on DEX for crits and HA for armour. And the only plus they got is ironheart, which if you spam cause your hp and def are so low, you no have time to attack. Imagine if clerics demanded a natuarlly high crit rate because of all our averagely sucky stats (excluding the rich). It would be nice but i admit it would be very unfair and possibly lead to OP.

I didnt post in General Discussion because obviously the other classes might QQ about it and vote "No", but I trust GM's would carry our thoughts and suggestions to the developers.

OF COURSE they gonna QQ cause believe it or not this game has other classes that dont prefer one class to go OP just because skill less players,
-cannot mix n match gear
-refuse to check the auction more than once a day to find good deals
-refuse to do anything more than lvling (**** farming for money!)
and need the game simplified more, especially when one is already listed as the top 2 DDs

Accelerated - Sanctuary · September 2009

I seriously hope this is a joke thread. -.-

Absoluth - Heavens Tear · September 2009

Archers are awesome in both high boss hunting as well as pvp. Whoever says archers fail are failures themselves or play low lv chars (30~60). We got multiple close ranged attacks that makes. You only do half dmg in close combat if you choose to do so.

The only thing i agree with is that knockback should be pvp/instance (it doesnt work on some mobs) effective.

SneakyStalk - Harshlands · September 2009

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

WE NO HAVE DAT 2X BONUS TO START OFF WITH! b:shocked *gasp* This is a perfect example of wanting to keep your cake and eating it at the same time.
You got highest crits, you got fastest DPS, you even got 2x bonus on distance, (...)
does NOT have a KNOCKBACK skill, and are bashed to the ground and ridiculed if they put on DEX for crits and HA for armour.

For such a high lvl Id say you are the one with dumb quotes.
No class have double damage. That is not what I meant, and now I know I should have chosen another kind of variable. 2x common sense means double but I didnt mean that. I just meant a figure. So you have been spending so much time playing and you think archers deal double damage? lol

Let me clarify this for you(since you stated "2x bonus" I assume you are the only one who misunderstood)
Example: base ranged damage = x , when enemy gets a bit closer = x/2
Clear now? Go quote yourself on your signature and keep your own class QQ to your own class discussion.

And... knockback does not knock back players. Oh, I see, you are from PvE server. Obviously I dont know you, but server name pushes me to think you know less about PvE.

Accelerated - Sanctuary · September 2009

SneakyStalk - Harshlands wrote: »

For such a high lvl Id say you are the one with dumb quotes.
No class have double damage. That is not what I meant, and now I know I should have chosen another kind of variable. 2x common sense means double but I didnt mean that. I just meant a figure. So you have been spending so much time playing and you think archers deal double damage? lol

Let me clarify this for you(since you stated "2x bonus" I assume you are the only one who misunderstood)
Example: base ranged damage = x , when enemy gets a bit closer = x/2
Clear now? Go quote yourself on your signature and keep your own class QQ to your own class discussion.

Pretty sure she was either stating x2 thing as either uber high crit rates, making damages double its normal damage or as she said:

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

You got highest crits, you got fastest DPS, you even got 2x bonus on distance[...]

Noting the fact that archers do x2 damage compared to being in close combat versus in range combat; while on the other hand, Wizards, clerics, and venomancers' range casts make absolute no difference between range combat or close combat.

SneakyStalk - Harshlands wrote: »

And... knockback does not knock back players. Oh, I see, you are from PvE server. Obviously I dont know you, but server name pushes me to think you know less about PvE.

Are you kidding? He was stating that Knockback should apply to PvP and the certain mobs in certain instances that it doesn't apply to. As long as the Knockback range isn't way too far, that's pretty fair.

deli · September 2009

Well Archers doesn't have any 2x bonus on distance but i agree they have really high dps on distance

Quilue - Sanctuary · September 2009

we dont get 2x damage at ranged, we get 1x damage, it 1/2's at close range. come on decep...you'd believe anything

and clerics have plenty of ways to stay alive. i mean...your seals, buffs, plume shell, you want to compare the usefulness of that stuff with knockback? at least your shell doesn't pop in 2 hits mid-late game.
look at the 79 skills for both classes, compare wings of protection and guardian light with the **** that we have...or better yet, lets talk about the 59 skills too. i challenge you to find a 59 skill in any other class that's not worth leveling or is as suck as stormrage.

and quiet you with your "low def" nonesense. if a buffed cleric in LA is considered "low def" then what the heck is archers? archers probably have the worst defense in the game. wizards sockets their armor, put up earth barrier and end up with better defense in both fields late game, clerics probably do the same.

with regards to melee penalty, i dont think it matters much. you're not going to be using normal shots against a melee class up in your face anyway, or a melee class in general (heavy armor is heavy). probably will just make pve easier.

ilystah · September 2009

If you want to remove the penalty, think about class balance. How are mage suppose to beat archer, when archer have decent magic resistence, but mage physical resistence is not a par? Archer also have longer range than mage, and also higher DPS.
When Deceptistar said 2X bonus, she meant archer deal high damage to begin with. Compare archer damage with barb damage and you will see.

deli · September 2009

Myself dont think it would do so much difference against caster classes- if any -, with or without close range damage penalty

Aeldur - Lost City · September 2009

The penalty does not need to be taken away, we have pretty awesome skills that do full damage at close range, i don't see why this would be an issue. =\

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · September 2009

SneakyStalk - Harshlands wrote: »

For such a high lvl Id say you are the one with dumb quotes.
No class have double damage. That is not what I meant, and now I know I should have chosen another kind of variable. 2x common sense means double but I didnt mean that. I just meant a figure. So you have been spending so much time playing and you think archers deal double damage? lol

Let me clarify this for you(since you stated "2x bonus" I assume you are the only one who misunderstood)
Example: base ranged damage = x , when enemy gets a bit closer = x/2
Clear now? Go quote yourself on your signature and keep your own class QQ to your own class discussion.

And... knockback does not knock back players. Oh, I see, you are from PvE server. Obviously I dont know you, but server name pushes me to think you know less about PvE.

Boo hoo i missed the numbers, but the point still stands, your asking to keep your cake and eat it too. lol dont blame others for your lack of skill in posting descriptions for this is a public forum and any non archers can come lurking in.

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

we dont get 2x damage at ranged, we get 1x damage, it 1/2's at close range. come on decep...you'd believe anything

and clerics have plenty of ways to stay alive. i mean...your seals, buffs, plume shell, you want to compare the usefulness of that stuff with knockback?

come on Quilue... youd believe every good thing said about cleric is true.
If I could trade things on cleric id take knockback and high DPS anyday.
Seals? Sure their good when your not solo or pvping. When your in a tight situation the last thing you wanna use is a skill that takes double time of cyclone/plume to cast and debuffs your squishy little self too. Not to mention all our skills can be interrupted mid cast and stop with one bad blow.(as applies to wizard too)
Im assuming you didnt realize this or else you wouldnt be saying it. Isnt it good im just explaining and not belittling you for not knowing like how the OP does above.

at least your shell doesn't pop in 2 hits mid-late game.
look at the 79 skills for both classes, compare wings of protection and guardian light with the **** that we have...or better yet, lets talk about the 59 skills too. i challenge you to find a 59 skill in any other class that's not worth leveling or is as suck as stormrage.

Look at your other skills too like the 89, 92, and 99. If they are as useless as the 79 then you should start a thread stating how it can be utilized to the best. If they are balanced as in some are good and some are bad, then you are just picking out the bad ones just to complain. You seen cleric 92 skills? they all pretty much suck munky balls unless you go money, sp, and too much Old Book pages to sell. Even the purify is not worth the cost unless they go down as much as apoc pages.

and quiet you with your "low def" nonesense. if a buffed cleric in LA is considered "low def" then what the heck is archers? archers probably have the worst defense in the game. wizards sockets their armor, put up earth barrier and end up with better defense in both fields late game, clerics probably do the same.

well i hope to god you do know how to socket your armour at that lvl,<_< and know that clerics similarly do NOT put up a earth barrier >>; You DO know that your stats put into VIT and STR as a melee make alot of diff. with base HP and def right?.....

StormHydra - Sanctuary · September 2009

Eh. No.

If a melee class rushes you theyll be using heavy armour. Heavy armour basically screams "HIT ME WITH MAGIC ATTACK".
Archer magic skills dont have any close range penalty (exluding sage frost arrow, which turns it into water damage or something) and if you use physical attacks against heavy armour when you have enough mana and your magic attacks have cooled down, thats just stupid unless you use aim low or stunning.

Flyingasian - Heavens Tear · September 2009

This is when Stunning arrow, Aim low, and Knockback Arrow come in handy. o.o

Waterboy - Lost City · September 2009

haha i would love the thought of this
imagine you demon spark and a wiz blinks up next to ub:laughb:laughb:laugh

_Miku_ - Lost City · September 2009

Imagine an archer w/o the 50% less damage close range x-x.
Thats gona be wayyy to hard to kill.
Plus if your a smart archer when someone gets close you can either stay there and fight back with your close ranged skills or you can use plume shield or w.e. and try to kite away.

Balint - Dreamweaver · September 2009

One word... kiting.

Pleiades - Harshlands · September 2009

lol @ the lvl 52 calling out the lvl 98 on pve server

stop being a scrub

stun, kite, etc in PVP, even knockback in PVE

and what do you know about archers being the worst at PVP besides high levels complaining about it? have you ever PVP'd?

let's say the dmg reduction is removed. would archers really let melee classes stand next to them even if the archer was doing full damage? ... abuse your range advantage and the damage reduction doesn't even matter anymore

bigxbear · September 2009

while their at it, y not make melee classes have a hit range of 35 meters

bluewinter93 · September 2009

bigxbear wrote: »

while their at it, y not make melee classes have a hit range of 35 meters

lol! you made me laugh sooo hard!( i take it that you are being sarcastic)
if we archers have no penalty at close range, it will simply make our class more powerful than the others. they game makers create some weakness in classes for a reason....
and i don't recall archers being weak unless that person doesn't know how to play with this class.i don't believe that any class is weaker than other.... the only differences is the skill level from one person to another.

Viroment - Dreamweaver · September 2009

SneakyStalk - Harshlands wrote: »

So, we have seen the thread "I should have chosen another class" and stuff.
Every possible archer and every possible class agrees when they state that our class is the weakiest class. It doesnt matter if you go Pure, Hybrid, Magic or whatever, we are still the weakiest class.

So, with an expansion coming, wouldnt it be fair if the close range damage penalty should be removed? I think a very large poll where archers can leave their opinions about it should be useful, right?

If you still don't know what Close Range Damage Penalty is, try to hit a mob from your max range and you'll hit lets say 2X damage. If the mob is next to you, you will only do X damage at most. No other class have that penalty.

I didnt post in General Discussion because obviously the other classes might QQ about it and vote "No", but I trust GM's would carry our thoughts and suggestions to the developers.

Please leave your thoughs and vote because this might be the chance that we finally have a bearable life. I know it does not sound logic that the damage from an archer is consistent no matter distance but its not logic that either Pandas, Lions and Wolves transform in White Tigers, right?

EDIT: I dont have problems, Im just afraid that when I reach high lvl and start PvPing its gonna be difficult, since every possible archer claims archers are in clear disadvantage.

*sigh* Have you EVER tried Kiting?

Sixshooter - Dreamweaver · September 2009

L2FISTICUFFS!
http://www.positivebrand.net/tshirt_store/images/ron_fisticuffs.jpg

SneakyStalk - Harshlands · September 2009

most ppl posting are other classes. not surprising.

and how do I know about high lvl archers on PvP... => via forums?

deli · September 2009

SneakyStalk - Harshlands wrote: »

most ppl posting are other classes. not surprising.

and how do I know about high lvl archers on PvP... => via forums?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkF37dalOEY

Also, other classes can have good knowledge about archers

deli · September 2009

StormHydra - Sanctuary wrote: »

Archer magic skills dont have any close range penalty (exluding sage frost arrow, which turns it into water damage or something).

Well the metal skill Thunderous Blast does have a close range penalty.
Also, archers magic skills isn't 100% magic (except Sage Frost Arrow) It is basic melee damage with metal damage from the skill. So its like halfmagic or somethingb:faint

Close Range Penalty Should be Removed?

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