Close Range Penalty Should be Removed?

Kristoph - Lost City

This thread is funny, so many idiots. Archers are probably the best pvp class around the 5x-7x levels, and they're far from weak at 99+ with 40-50% critrate. Just because you don't know how to play your class doesn't mean you should be crying over half damage at close range. Either use wing skills, metal skills or... move backwards.


Don't talk about being gimped until you play a wizard up to level 80.

MrConce - Harshlands

Elviron - Dreamweaver wrote: »

On a more serious note, just becase they dont fare well in a 1on1 pvp doesnt mean the class is a failure. Different classes have different roles to play in a game.

Any game that you play, any role regardless of what their job is, has shown that even the brightest mind can overcome weaknesses and exploit strengths. This means that even if it's hard to do, it's still possible. Archers in this game though, find themselves at most times being the class that cant really overcome any situation. There is no weaknesses to exploit or any strengths when you cant even touch the person. Point is simple. On a 1v1 pvp situation against a decent player, archer will simply always fail unless u exceed them in refines in a considerable amount. For the first time ever, I actually found a game that is unbalanced. Now, I will be honest. PWE is the first game Ive seen to stick to the "There will always be someone better out there" motto. That is, if you are an archer. Ive been all classes but a bm, all of which my respective characters are 80+, and I got to admit all of em are fun and balanced except archers. Ive gone from living a reputation of a hardcore player, to being nothing (Not that my rep matters, its a non factor here, my point is the fact the moment I rerolled archer, there is literally at times nothing you can do to beat certain people). With all other characters, at least I had a chance to exploit a weakness and show what skill really is and get the kill. ^_^

MrConce - Harshlands

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

This thread is funny, so many idiots. Archers are probably the best pvp class around the 5x-7x levels, and they're far from weak at 99+ with 40-50% critrate. Just because you don't know how to play your class doesn't mean you should be crying over half damage at close range. Either use wing skills, metal skills or... move backwards.


Don't talk about being gimped until you play a wizard up to level 80.

Says the level 94 archer who is not even 99+ to support half his argument. Oh and also, what good is crit when you got bm shields that absorb all damage for 12 seconds along with marrows, 15k+ hp barbs with genies and pots to defend themselves, cleric plume shell that gets replenished with charms, mage debuffs that give 60% magic reduction along with a -no channeling skill, veno bugged bleed and...hmm...Should I keep going? If you cant even touch a person, what good is crit?

Oh and all my arguments are not related to the "Close ranged half damage topic". Im just supporting his statement about archers being weak period.

MrConce - Harshlands

Elviron - Dreamweaver wrote: »

So now we actually come down the point to question what does the base attack/physical attack actually signifies. Following are the options for physical ranged attacks:-

If physical attack signifies the attack for long range, then the short range attack should be doubled

If physical attack signifies the attack for short range, then the long range attach should be halved.

So it finally comes down to how it is precieved.

For magic attacks, the enegy doesnt vary over distance because of the said "Jedi" powers b:laugh.

Anyways if we were to include physics in here, we would have make this a FPS game with the following stuff:-
1.) Targetting system for ranged attackers since theres no way a projectile is going to follow the target like a heat-seeking missile.
2.) Melee Attackers' speed for charge is reduced everytime they are hit with a projectile since that effectively always reduce movement speed. God dammit, you cant run the same speed with an arrow lodged in your **** [can mean any 4 letter part of your body], youre supposed to be lying on the ground.
3.) Headshots are one shot KOs. Common, i dont see how a person can be alive with an arrow or an energy blast thru his/her head.
4.) Melee classes can dodge or block incoming projectiles using their weapons etc. I guess this is valid enough.
5.) Can use the environment to support their gameplay. i.e. Arrows/Energy blasts do not pass through trees and rocks <.<.
6.) Wearing a heavy armour makes you move slower for obvious reasons.
7.) Archers can carry at the max 50 arrows on them and not thousands. How is this even possible? b:shocked. If they run out of arrows, they would need to make arrows using wood or switch to using blades like the elves in Lord of the Rings.
8.) Slingshots should be removed. The whole thing about archers is that they use bows and arrows and not stone propelling catapults <.<.
9.) Decrease the size of the higher level weapons. Come on, blademasters and barbarians are not hercules to weild 20 foot hammers/axes/swords and that one one in each hand. Imagine the effort taken to swing something that big. This applies to archers and mages as well <.<.
10.) Barrage of Arrows from an archer? Huh, I didnt know an archer could shoot that many arrows in a single shot b:shocked.

List Could go on.....

So given the complications involved in sticking to physics and realism, keep the mechanics as is but perhaps include knockback effect against players as well.

Your post makes me lol. You sure you play the game to play it and immerse urself in it? Or you just like do all your regular daily RL duties while playing the game? Its a "GAME", not everything has to be so realistic. If there was one thing to complaing about archers, I'd say it would have to be their defensive abilities. That's about it.

MagicHamsta - Lost City

MrConce - Harshlands wrote: »

Your post makes me lol. You sure you play the game to play it and immerse urself in it? Or you just like do all your regular daily RL duties while playing the game? Its a "GAME", not everything has to be so realistic. If there was one thing to complaing about archers, I'd say it would have to be their defensive abilities. That's about it.

True~! MagicHamster approves of this post~!
if you wanted realism then go outside get yourself to a park/gym/basketball court and start playing sports.

I hear that the graphics and damage effects of real life sports are really realistic~! and oh mah gawd theres no lag either~
d(^.-d)

Elviron - Dreamweaver

Hmm the only thing I can say to you is that, neither of you could see the humour in it or perhaps I guess you thought I was talking seriously and wanted these changes done.

Anyways if I wanted realism, I wouldnt be playing an MMO in the first place.
Oh well I guess kids (mentally if youre in your 20s or more) cant identify a big joke even if it slapped them on the face.

And yes, I do tend to do my RL duties side by side while chatting and killing monsters at snail's pace since immersing myself into it as though its my life would be an utter waste of time and seriously stupid and would cost me dear money. As for sports I prefer the echo effects of Tennis b:victory

Its a "GAME" not "LIFE".

@MrConce
As for your huge paragraph explaining an archer's weakness, against youre emphasising only on 1on1 pvp which is but one aspect of the game. If thats all you care about then I guess archers are not for you or for those who want to be awesome pvpers. Anyways i will not argue further as it wont get into the thick head of yours and I will simply waste my time.

Kristoph - Lost City

MrConce - Harshlands wrote: »

Says the level 94 archer who is not even 99+ to support half his argument. Oh and also, what good is crit when you got bm shields that absorb all damage for 12 seconds along with marrows, 15k+ hp barbs with genies and pots to defend themselves, cleric plume shell that gets replenished with charms, mage debuffs that give 60% magic reduction along with a -no channeling skill, veno bugged bleed and...hmm...Should I keep going? If you cant even touch a person, what good is crit?

Oh and all my arguments are not related to the "Close ranged half damage topic". Im just supporting his statement about archers being weak period.

- I'm not an archer, genius
- I pvp with 99+ all the time, too bad
- BM shields which absorb damage for 12 seconds? I can't think of any. Unless you mean balance, which has a 6 second duration and can be broken with what, two hits? It doesn't absorb all damage, lol.
- Congrats, hardly any class can kill barbs 1v1 easily. They're tanking classes.
- Oh noes, plume shell. Use metal skills? Kite? It has a duration and cooldown.
- You can easily twoshot wizards if you don't suck balls
- All classes have to deal with bugged bleed, get over it.


If you can't even touch anyone, then you honestly need to learn how to play your class, because you have the longest range in the game along with a 3 second stun and a paralyze which lasts incredibly long. You have two tanking skills, one of which is also anti stun and you have a high critrate combined with both physical and magic attacks. Archers may be squishy, but if you learn how to use wings of grace and your stuns properly you'll easily be able to fight clerics/wizards/BMs 1v1. Phoenixes and barbs are hard for everyone, and archer vs archer is crit/gear dependant.

DarkSniper - Lost City

If you think an archer is weak re-roll.

SneakyStalk - Harshlands

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

This thread is funny, so many idiots. Archers are probably the best pvp class around the 5x-7x levels, and they're far from weak at 99+ with 40-50% critrate. Just because you don't know how to play your class doesn't mean you should be crying over half damage at close range. Either use wing skills, metal skills or... move backwards.


Don't talk about being gimped until you play a wizard up to level 80.

Frankly. I think you are the biggest idiot. "move backwards".

So... a melee class is gonna let us peacefully walk away from them for 1, 2, 3 secs until he goes back like 20 meters and then wait 1 or 2 more secs until he channels/casts his skill?

I can easily kill Barbs, BMs, and Wizards my lvl...
With Barb&BM: WingedShell, ThunderShock, LightningStrike, ThunderStorm while ThunderousBlast. If that didnt kill him u'll have trouble.
With Wizards/Clerics: WingedShell and DeadlyShot and so on if possible.
Nixomancers... just hope I take down her HP (time varies) before Bleed taks down mine (2 secs maximum).

Satuki - Harshlands

SneakyStalk - Harshlands wrote: »

Frankly. I think you are the biggest idiot. "move backwards".

So... a melee class is gonna let us peacefully walk away from them for 1, 2, 3 secs until he goes back like 20 meters and then wait 1 or 2 more secs until he channels/casts his skill?

I can easily kill Barbs, BMs, and Wizards my lvl...
With Barb&BM: WingedShell, ThunderShock, LightningStrike, ThunderStorm while ThunderousBlast. If that didnt kill him u'll have trouble.
With Wizards/Clerics: WingedShell and DeadlyShot and so on if possible.
Nixomancers... just hope I take down her HP (time varies) before Bleed taks down mine (2 secs maximum).

aim low? stun? to keep the range?
you shouldn't worry about the half damage reduction, cause if you let them get close to you, move back or use other skills.
only class you should really worry about getting in that range easy is BMs and mages, and mages? why worry about them cause they suck til 90+

Kristoph - Lost City

SneakyStalk - Harshlands wrote: »

Frankly. I think you are the biggest idiot. "move backwards".

So... a melee class is gonna let us peacefully walk away from them for 1, 2, 3 secs until he goes back like 20 meters and then wait 1 or 2 more secs until he channels/casts his skill?

I can easily kill Barbs, BMs, and Wizards my lvl...
With Barb&BM: WingedShell, ThunderShock, LightningStrike, ThunderStorm while ThunderousBlast. If that didnt kill him u'll have trouble.
With Wizards/Clerics: WingedShell and DeadlyShot and so on if possible.
Nixomancers... just hope I take down her HP (time varies) before Bleed taks down mine (2 secs maximum).

Maybe get past lv54? You run faster than a blademaster assuming he has no sprint on. In the air, you can use elevation to your advantage to gain range. You don't have to be in max range, you simply need to get a few meters away from them, which takes what, a second?

MagicHamsta - Lost City

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

Maybe get past lv54? You run faster than a blademaster assuming he has no sprint on. In the air, you can use elevation to your advantage to gain range. You don't have to be in max range, you simply need to get a few meters away from them, which takes what, a second?

actually less then a second. if barb doesn't have like cyborg status reflexes and follow you the instant you take to the air.
winged elf move speed is like 5.5 m/s
so .9 seconds.

besides bms have no skill to increase speed in air. other then accelerate which you can do. b:laugh

just make sure you don't fly into the giant rock falling from the sky casted by a random wizard. (>.<)

Katz - Lost City

hell no don't remove it it's such a delight when a wizz has the genious idea to come in close range only to get shot trough charm by wingspan

and we archers like it hard anyways i didn't rolled an archer to have mobs breathing in my face i like to see them by far b:laugh

SneakyStalk - Harshlands

lol Katz you are totally right xD. Well I like doing Earthquake too, disruptig skills.

MrConce - Harshlands

Elviron - Dreamweaver wrote: »

@MrConce
As for your huge paragraph explaining an archer's weakness, against youre emphasising only on 1on1 pvp which is but one aspect of the game. If thats all you care about then I guess archers are not for you or for those who want to be awesome pvpers. Anyways i will not argue further as it wont get into the thick head of yours and I will simply waste my time.

I think you are forgetting the fact that when the creator of the thread wrote it, his emphasis was also on pvp. If you like having to sneak around a group pvp and try to test ur damage or show how good of an archer u are, have at it. Most of the pvp I get (if any) is mostly 1v1. Harshlands doesnt really offer much group pvp. AS a matter of fact, I had more pvp in HT than I do here. So Im kinda forced to 1v1 pvp. and yes, if I wanted to be a carebear and grind my way to 100, i wouldnt be sitting here complaining about archers when they are the second fastest leveling class after venoes due to their bleed and the nix.

DarkSniper - Lost City

if I wanted to be a carebear and grind my way

~ Director of CareBears ~

Lawl

so liek 10chars

Cirdan - Lost City

wouldn't it make sense that if you were closer to your target as an archer that it would be easier to hit and would take more damage. If archers were more realistic and the devs actually thought about arrows fly in the real world, then they would have found that arrows fly their fastest at the moment they leave the bow/xbow. More acuracy and more power in the arrow at close range in real life means it's gonna hurt when I aim for your face if you are closer to me than if you are farther away, in which case I also have a larger chance of missing my target if you are farther away.

MrConce - Harshlands

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

- I'm not an archer, genius
- I pvp with 99+ all the time, too bad
- BM shields which absorb damage for 12 seconds? I can't think of any. Unless you mean balance, which has a 6 second duration and can be broken with what, two hits? It doesn't absorb all damage, lol.
- Congrats, hardly any class can kill barbs 1v1 easily. They're tanking classes.
- Oh noes, plume shell. Use metal skills? Kite? It has a duration and cooldown.
- You can easily twoshot wizards if you don't suck balls
- All classes have to deal with bugged bleed, get over it.


If you can't even touch anyone, then you honestly need to learn how to play your class, because you have the longest range in the game along with a 3 second stun and a paralyze which lasts incredibly long. You have two tanking skills, one of which is also anti stun and you have a high critrate combined with both physical and magic attacks. Archers may be squishy, but if you learn how to use wings of grace and your stuns properly you'll easily be able to fight clerics/wizards/BMs 1v1. Phoenixes and barbs are hard for everyone, and archer vs archer is crit/gear dependant.

I bet (if you are good and not a re-tard) that u 2 shot if not more any 90+ archer out there unless they have much better gear than you. If u dont, then perhaps YOU should rethink all your points. Its not so smart sitting there attacking an archer who just used wings of grace and or other defensive skills such as a pot.

From my knowledge and last I checked (it could have changed due to maint yesterday), Balance last 12 seconds, and unless LC lacks poweress on the bm side of the game, then reroll come to HL and fight sum of the decent bms over here. You simply will not be able to kill one as an archer. And again, im only talking about that 1-5% bm's that actually know how to use their class. And also, Switch alter marrows and do balance u nub. Try breaking that.

Plume shell vs wings of grace/winged shell. Plume shell = 20 seconds, 30 second cooldown. Wings of grace = 1 Spark Only about 12-15 seconds (too lazy too look it up but im sure its 15 or 12) and winged shell, GG cast and use 45 to get it taken down in one hit. Bottom line, Try kitting a cleric, wait till plume shell goes down. OMG OMG, if they smart they wont follow u when the plume shell goes down and if that doesnt get through ur head, think of their 2 79 skilss that can cover them for another 20-30 seconds. all they need to do is cyclone u to 75% health or just do sum slight damage and the moment ur precious wings of grace goes out, sleep and your done considering how crappy light armors magc res is. Try using metal skills, unless u spark and crit on all 3 of em, u wont kill unless u triple spark, maybe dual spark.

Again I dunno what wizards u fight as an archer, oh wait , ur not an archer, my bad. U wouldnt know what it is to fight a level 90+ wiz that can hit u for 3900+ damage in one hit. Oh, did i forget to mention they prolly have 7k+ phys def? Judging that they dont have the book for stone barrier yet. Oh and dont forget their high hp now, almost 4k. Thats you average end game wizard, lets not talk about the pro wizards on my server. Oh wait, u have sum too. See Elayne? Ask her or him how many archers give her a hard time. If she says the ones with +12 on everything, u owe me a bend over and blow on this. Try stunning a wiz so that u can triple spark or wutever, GG the only thing to stop a wiz in their track is archer stun and unless ur sage, ur stun wont be long enough to kill em. Try paralizing them, they will jsut teleport away (at least the good wizards).

Archer vs archer. No argument there, I mentioned it already and so did u. Gear dependant.

About the kitting on the 1v1, So u do have that 1 aim low paralize and stun. You do realize that u only have 3.99 sparks. use the paralize and now u have 2.99. What u gonna do? chi pot everytime u 1v1? Costly. No other class needs a pot every fight to win and if i wanna use a pot to win a fight, it wouldnt be a chi pot since i need phys def to sustain bm hits, or maybe mag pot so that i dot get 1 shotted or 2 by a mage class, or maybe a bleed pot or god pot cause i missed a venoes bleed with blood cloth or cuaterize, or maybe longer anti stun so that i can finally land a crit sumtime. To take down a bm, u gonna need to dual spark and crit at least. Let me ask you this? What happens when u dont kill em with that one aim low and stun? U gonna run? exactly, what archers are best at. Fyi people can be paralized and they can still pot,genie,and use their skills nub. Bms cancel anything u do with balance or marrows and or genie, clerics can plume shell/79 skills/overheal (just not ironheart, a good cleric uses wellspring surge as well, which is faster than u can hit em, heals em to full, I was a cleric believe me, archers are the eziest pieces of meat in this whole game for clerics) and mages will just tele out.

Bottom line, you obviously lack good pvp. Try finding people to challenge u, My gear is +4 and bow is +6 (not that impressive but its decent for a level 80+ archer, better than the average archer and trust me, I dont settle for less). Stop being a wuz and challange the best of the best, then u will see the light. Then again ur a wiz. Things should be easier for you. Its good to know ur win doesnt depend on a crit that u dont even know if it will happen. Im sorry my devotion to wanting to exceed gets in my way to enjoy this game for what it is. Live hard, die trying. I already know, archers are great dders, but if one thing i regret, was ever trying a class that I already disliked and knew that sucked. Only reason i ever tried it, was cause i thought they looked cool. U know, a character with a bow, they slick look cool. BUt yeah, look at what it brought me. I have 5 characters, 4 which are 80+, 2 which are 90+. And I havent even gotten to 90 yet on this one, and I already rerolled. No need to tell me. In my point of view, archers are dead meat. they blow, they suck and nothing anyone tells me is gonna change my mind. U want proof, Ill find u the link to the video of one of the best archers in this server. +7 on his gear and +12 bow 90+. Cant even kill a 90 bm with +4 on gear and xs axes +6.

MrConce - Harshlands

SneakyStalk - Harshlands wrote: »

Frankly. I think you are the biggest idiot. "move backwards".

So... a melee class is gonna let us peacefully walk away from them for 1, 2, 3 secs until he goes back like 20 meters and then wait 1 or 2 more secs until he channels/casts his skill?

I can easily kill Barbs, BMs, and Wizards my lvl...
With Barb&BM: WingedShell, ThunderShock, LightningStrike, ThunderStorm while ThunderousBlast. If that didnt kill him u'll have trouble.
With Wizards/Clerics: WingedShell and DeadlyShot and so on if possible.
Nixomancers... just hope I take down her HP (time varies) before Bleed taks down mine (2 secs maximum).

Ima put it down softly to you. Archers rock... below 79. Ull be the best. Once people get to 79+ especially 90, ur gonna be rolled over and over again, no matter how good u are. Im not saying every **** time u gonna die, but u gonna find more people who u could beat before that u cant beat now.

MrConce - Harshlands

DarkSniper - Lost City wrote: »

Lawl

so liek 10chars

I know, the irony, but it made u laugh, thats the point. =P

BoeNn - Harshlands

SneakyStalk - Harshlands wrote: »

I dont have trouble. Im just afraid that when I reach high lvl and start PvPing its gonna be difficult, since every possible archer claims archers are in clear disadvantage.

Why wouldnt an archer want that to be removed? Knockback doesnt work on PvP, it amazes me that you havent noticed that coming from PvP server. Well, it really looks like you are speaking from another class voice, not from your archer.

Wow, dont fail now. Only classes who would come close to you; BM's/ Barbs, you gonna autoattack them?b:chuckle No you use lightning, is lightning reduced @ close range? No.

What happens if a mage comes close to me? You got 2 skills, winged pledge, wingspan, lvl them to lvl 10. Anytime any class, apart from heavy's, who come close, will get rolled by those skills.

So how could this be a sucky part of an archer? Its only horrible for barrage, agreed. Who uses barrage, apart from TW? lulzzzb:bye

SneakyStalk - Harshlands

BoeNn - Harshlands wrote: »

Wow, dont fail now. Only classes who would come close to you; BM's/ Barbs, you gonna autoattack them?b:chuckle No you use lightning, is lightning reduced @ close range? No.

What happens if a mage comes close to me? You got 2 skills, winged pledge, wingspan, lvl them to lvl 10. Anytime any class, apart from heavy's, who come close, will get rolled by those skills.

So how could this be a sucky part of an archer? Its only horrible for barrage, agreed. Who uses barrage, apart from TW? lulzzzb:bye

Finally some high-lvl direct advice. thx
uhmm WingedPledge and Wingspan... a long way ahead to lvl10 'them lol but they are useful if used with EarthQuake too

DarkSniper - Lost City

I've heard good things about demon wingspan and that does full damage at close range

Kristoph - Lost City

MrConce - Harshlands wrote: »

I bet (if you are good and not a re-tard) that u 2 shot if not more any 90+ archer out there unless they have much better gear than you. If u dont, then perhaps YOU should rethink all your points. Its not so smart sitting there attacking an archer who just used wings of grace and or other defensive skills such as a pot.

Yes, I twoshot archers, and they twoshot me. Squishy vs squishy simply works that way, can't do anything about it. And offense is also defense; you have a longer range, stun->take aim = you can twoshot a robe class.

MrConce - Harshlands wrote: »

From my knowledge and last I checked (it could have changed due to maint yesterday), Balance last 12 seconds, and unless LC lacks poweress on the bm side of the game, then reroll come to HL and fight sum of the decent bms over here. You simply will not be able to kill one as an archer. And again, im only talking about that 1-5% bm's that actually know how to use their class. And also, Switch alter marrows and do balance u nub. Try breaking that.

Balance now has a base 6 second duration. And honestly, it has a max absorb amount so two shots should get rid of it. I've tested it with a friend, if he used phys marrow and popped balance, I broke it in 3... and that's a very risky combination. I've seen a lot of archers kill BMs. The 79 evasion skill and Wings of Grace give you quite a nice amount of time to throw whatever you want at your target without being interrupted.

MrConce - Harshlands wrote: »

Plume shell vs wings of grace/winged shell. Plume shell = 20 seconds, 30 second cooldown. Wings of grace = 1 Spark Only about 12-15 seconds (too lazy too look it up but im sure its 15 or 12) and winged shell, GG cast and use 45 to get it taken down in one hit. Bottom line, Try kitting a cleric, wait till plume shell goes down. OMG OMG, if they smart they wont follow u when the plume shell goes down and if that doesnt get through ur head, think of their 2 79 skilss that can cover them for another 20-30 seconds. all they need to do is cyclone u to 75% health or just do sum slight damage and the moment ur precious wings of grace goes out, sleep and your done considering how crappy light armors magc res is. Try using metal skills, unless u spark and crit on all 3 of em, u wont kill unless u triple spark, maybe dual spark.

You can kite them around, just run/drop till their plume shell will finish in a few secs and go back after them. Clerics also aren't a class which is easy to kill for anyone. Have fun trying to kill a cleric with a wizard, especially if they have vit. You could go as far as getting skills like relentless courage and stacking -interval gear, to break their plume shell with crits. Not easy, but it's still an option other classes don't have, and it won't work on LA clerics.

MrConce - Harshlands wrote: »

Again I dunno what wizards u fight as an archer, oh wait , ur not an archer, my bad. U wouldnt know what it is to fight a level 90+ wiz that can hit u for 3900+ damage in one hit. Oh, did i forget to mention they prolly have 7k+ phys def? Judging that they dont have the book for stone barrier yet. Oh and dont forget their high hp now, almost 4k. Thats you average end game wizard, lets not talk about the pro wizards on my server. Oh wait, u have sum too. See Elayne? Ask her or him how many archers give her a hard time. If she says the ones with +12 on everything, u owe me a bend over and blow on this. Try stunning a wiz so that u can triple spark or wutever, GG the only thing to stop a wiz in their track is archer stun and unless ur sage, ur stun wont be long enough to kill em. Try paralizing them, they will jsut teleport away (at least the good wizards).

I know what it's like for an archer, because I'm at the other end of the deal. Depending on how you play it you'll get destroyed by wizards, but you do the same to them. Take Aim crits are capable of oneshotting a lot of 9x wizards, trust me. I have 4.5k pdef self buffed and my gear is pretty damn good. YOU should ask higher level wizards; what classes they still have the most problems with. You'll generally hear phoenix/perdition/archers. Demon Stunning Arrow followed by Take Aim = ****, and wizards don't have much to stop you from doing that. But yes, it's a good idea to keep your genie skills saved up for when you get slept and see an ult being cast. Most wizards will only have 4-5k HP, and guess what? 9x archers crit me with Take Aim for 3.8-6k from full dmg range. If you're unsure about killing one, stun-normal shot-take aim. Unless the archer is lagging like a *****, this will work even with a 3 second stun.

MrConce - Harshlands wrote: »

About the kitting on the 1v1, So u do have that 1 aim low paralize and stun. You do realize that u only have 3.99 sparks. use the paralize and now u have 2.99. What u gonna do? chi pot everytime u 1v1? Costly. No other class needs a pot every fight to win and if i wanna use a pot to win a fight, it wouldnt be a chi pot since i need phys def to sustain bm hits, or maybe mag pot so that i dot get 1 shotted or 2 by a mage class, or maybe a bleed pot or god pot cause i missed a venoes bleed with blood cloth or cuaterize, or maybe longer anti stun so that i can finally land a crit sumtime. To take down a bm, u gonna need to dual spark and crit at least. Let me ask you this? What happens when u dont kill em with that one aim low and stun? U gonna run? exactly, what archers are best at. Fyi people can be paralized and they can still pot,genie,and use their skills nub. Bms cancel anything u do with balance or marrows and or genie, clerics can plume shell/79 skills/overheal (just not ironheart, a good cleric uses wellspring surge as well, which is faster than u can hit em, heals em to full, I was a cleric believe me, archers are the eziest pieces of meat in this whole game for clerics) and mages will just tele out.

If you wanted to you could kite people around endlessly with stun-whatever-run. You think a wizard can kill a BM or Barb in a 1v1 easily? Not without a crit if they don't suck badly, unless you have anti stun pots. At least you have some evasion and an anti stun skill to work with. If a BM uses magic marrow you have physical hits which will do decent damage if their marrow is leveled somewhat highly, and if not they'll still die to metal skills. Phoenixes? Sure, what do you expect other classes to do against them? How are archers worse off than others?

MrConce - Harshlands wrote: »

Bottom line, you obviously lack good pvp. Try finding people to challenge u, My gear is +4 and bow is +6 (not that impressive but its decent for a level 80+ archer, better than the average archer and trust me, I dont settle for less). Stop being a wuz and challange the best of the best, then u will see the light. Then again ur a wiz. Things should be easier for you. Its good to know ur win doesnt depend on a crit that u dont even know if it will happen. Im sorry my devotion to wanting to exceed gets in my way to enjoy this game for what it is. Live hard, die trying. I already know, archers are great dders, but if one thing i regret, was ever trying a class that I already disliked and knew that sucked. Only reason i ever tried it, was cause i thought they looked cool. U know, a character with a bow, they slick look cool. BUt yeah, look at what it brought me. I have 5 characters, 4 which are 80+, 2 which are 90+. And I havent even gotten to 90 yet on this one, and I already rerolled. No need to tell me. In my point of view, archers are dead meat. they blow, they suck and nothing anyone tells me is gonna change my mind. U want proof, Ill find u the link to the video of one of the best archers in this server. +7 on his gear and +12 bow 90+. Cant even kill a 90 bm with +4 on gear and xs axes +6.

Challenge the best of the best? Look at our level and pvp rankings. I'm in RageQuit, and I have to deal with Conqueror all day long. Find someone challenging? lol.

TigerLily - Lost City

SneakyStalk - Harshlands wrote: »

So, we have seen the thread "I should have chosen another class" and stuff.
Lots of archers and every class agrees when they state that our class is the weakiest class. It doesnt matter if you go Pure, Hybrid, Magic or whatever, we are still the weakiest class.

So, with an expansion coming, wouldnt it be fair if the close range damage penalty should be removed? I think a very large poll where archers can leave their opinions about it should be useful, right?

If you still don't know what Close Range Damage Penalty is, try to hit a mob from your max range and you'll hit lets say 2X damage. If the mob is next to you, you will only do X damage at most. No other class have that penalty.

Please leave your thoughs and vote because this might be the chance that we finally survive a bit longer. I know it does not sound logic that the damage from an archer is consistent no matter distance but its not logic that either Pandas, Lions and Wolves transform in White Tigers, right?

EDIT: I dont have problems, Im just afraid that when I reach high lvl and start PvPing its gonna be difficult, since every possible archer claims archers are in clear disadvantage.

Thats why archers have mele skills for pvp and knock back skills for pve b:surrender

Its only at really low lvls you have problems with the penalty in pve. Once you upgrade knockback and mele skills and get a decent weapon, mobs shouldn't be able to hit you more than once.

Alltho mele skills are kinda sucky in pvp compared to range attacks Q.Q.
Specially in cube the damage penalty is big issue for archers, since you cant kite players that well or fly. I pretty much **** any archer on my veno in cube even if they have amazing gear, i just stand on top of them and nuke, doesn't matter if they have +10 bow, they cant kite anywhere in room 14/34 and the mele skills are weak with slow channeling compared to range skills.

But other than that i never found the dmg penalty a big issues. And archers are not the weakest class...poor archers with **** gear are, the same goes for poor wizards. A very rich archer is amazing tho.

MrConce - Harshlands

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

Yes, I twoshot archers, and they twoshot me. Squishy vs squishy simply works that way, can't do anything about it. And offense is also defense; you have a longer range, stun->take aim = you can twoshot a robe class.


Balance now has a base 6 second duration. And honestly, it has a max absorb amount so two shots should get rid of it. I've tested it with a friend, if he used phys marrow and popped balance, I broke it in 3... and that's a very risky combination. I've seen a lot of archers kill BMs. The 79 evasion skill and Wings of Grace give you quite a nice amount of time to throw whatever you want at your target without being interrupted.


You can kite them around, just run/drop till their plume shell will finish in a few secs and go back after them. Clerics also aren't a class which is easy to kill for anyone. Have fun trying to kill a cleric with a wizard, especially if they have vit. You could go as far as getting skills like relentless courage and stacking -interval gear, to break their plume shell with crits. Not easy, but it's still an option other classes don't have, and it won't work on LA clerics.


I know what it's like for an archer, because I'm at the other end of the deal. Depending on how you play it you'll get destroyed by wizards, but you do the same to them. Take Aim crits are capable of oneshotting a lot of 9x wizards, trust me. I have 4.5k pdef self buffed and my gear is pretty damn good. YOU should ask higher level wizards; what classes they still have the most problems with. You'll generally hear phoenix/perdition/archers. Demon Stunning Arrow followed by Take Aim = ****, and wizards don't have much to stop you from doing that. But yes, it's a good idea to keep your genie skills saved up for when you get slept and see an ult being cast. Most wizards will only have 4-5k HP, and guess what? 9x archers crit me with Take Aim for 3.8-6k from full dmg range. If you're unsure about killing one, stun-normal shot-take aim. Unless the archer is lagging like a *****, this will work even with a 3 second stun.


If you wanted to you could kite people around endlessly with stun-whatever-run. You think a wizard can kill a BM or Barb in a 1v1 easily? Not without a crit if they don't suck badly, unless you have anti stun pots. At least you have some evasion and an anti stun skill to work with. If a BM uses magic marrow you have physical hits which will do decent damage if their marrow is leveled somewhat highly, and if not they'll still die to metal skills. Phoenixes? Sure, what do you expect other classes to do against them? How are archers worse off than others?


Challenge the best of the best? Look at our level and pvp rankings. I'm in RageQuit, and I have to deal with Conqueror all day long. Find someone challenging? lol.

A good wizard never dies to an archer unless they get jumped with a demon spark already on followed by stun. Wizards have many seals to keep a archer at bay while they debuff and 2 shot u. Force of will > Undine > Sleep > GG. And many other ways it could go. U got 4.5k phys def at 94 with good gear? lol. My lv 88 wiz roomate has more phys def than u. All the level 90 wiz I know have over 5k AT LEAST. What are you? Fully hp sharded? lol.

Trust me. You will never kill a good bm as an archer. 7k + hp at 90 with marrows and balance, they can sit there and laugh at you while you waste your sparks and run.

For clerics, before u can do all ur gg skils about relentless and negative interval and blah blah blah, a good cleric will go for instant kill. Like I said, all it takes is a cyclone and a seal. Time is on the clerics side. Only thing archer can do is anti stun pot and or have heart of steel on their genie. If a cleric dies to an archer, that would be a disgrace.

One point u do have I might try is the stun > timed take aim. That could work, but it involves a lot of luck to get the crit and i believe a spark as well cause like I mentioned before, the good wizard at 90+ has more than 5k phys def along with 3.5k hp+.

Evasion is a nonfactor at endgame. Ive had bms and barbs hit me even with my 30k+ evasion from 79 skill. Ur anti stuns all consume a spark, which u need to be able to kill a bm/barb in first place for ur seal and or sparks. Get ur points straight, either u seal and spark to kill, or u use em to anti stun and tickle the barb/bm.

We all know true skill is not shown by level or ranking or guild. Ive been playing this game for 2 years since MY client, and if u wanna compare ranks and level I have 4 80+ toons along with rankings on both leaderboards in HT and HL. I used to be #3 on PK list in HL about 1 month ago till I decided to give up trying to compete with people who cashshop their levels and pk during their free time. Ur guild doesnt matter, for all I know u could be a non factor or an assback to ur guild in tw considering how many other lv 90+ must be in ur guild. From what I hear RQ is way past dead and im not even from that server. Pk skill is earned through actually challenging urself. Getting one shotted or 2 shotted by higher levels and/or aiding on killin a level 90+ or 100+ along with ur 2+ other buddies doesnt count. Like I said, I 1v1 pvp. Never group pvp. I rather die proudly and die trying than sitting at safe zone and speculating about all the things that I could do or could happen out in the battlefield.

flameenix

SneakyStalk - Harshlands wrote: »

So, we have seen the thread "I should have chosen another class" and stuff.
Lots of archers and every class agrees when they state that our class is the weakiest class. It doesnt matter if you go Pure, Hybrid, Magic or whatever, we are still the weakiest class.

So, with an expansion coming, wouldnt it be fair if the close range damage penalty should be removed? I think a very large poll where archers can leave their opinions about it should be useful, right?

If you still don't know what Close Range Damage Penalty is, try to hit a mob from your max range and you'll hit lets say 2X damage. If the mob is next to you, you will only do X damage at most. No other class have that penalty.

Please leave your thoughs and vote because this might be the chance that we finally survive a bit longer. I know it does not sound logic that the damage from an archer is consistent no matter distance but its not logic that either Pandas, Lions and Wolves transform in White Tigers, right?

EDIT: I dont have problems, Im just afraid that when I reach high lvl and start PvPing its gonna be difficult, since every possible archer claims archers are in clear disadvantage.

I guess you haven't seen 9X archers hit 7k's against lvl 9X heavy armour.

Kristoph - Lost City

MrConce - Harshlands wrote: »

A good wizard never dies to an archer unless they get jumped with a demon spark already on followed by stun. Wizards have many seals to keep a archer at bay while they debuff and 2 shot u. Force of will > Undine > Sleep > GG. And many other ways it could go. U got 4.5k phys def at 94 with good gear? lol. My lv 88 wiz roomate has more phys def than u. All the level 90 wiz I know have over 5k AT LEAST. What are you? Fully hp sharded? lol.

No, I'm almost fully pdef shards, with +5 ornaments, hh90 gold sleeves, helm with 69 pdef times 3 and 53 base vit. Honestly, if you can think of any wizard with over 5k pdef without 96 cape then please show me with pwcalc, because it's going to have a pathetic amount of hp. My gear is in no way bad. If you get Force of Will'd, drop. it lasts 5 seconds and has a 20 seconds cooldown. It's also short range and slower compared to Stunning Arrow. Honestly even on the ground by the time they finish FoW and undine you could RUN out of their ****ing range and turn around and use stun when unsealed.

MrConce - Harshlands wrote: »

Trust me. You will never kill a good bm as an archer. 7k + hp at 90 with marrows and balance, they can sit there and laugh at you while you waste your sparks and run.

Okay then. I PK with a BM a lot, and we often challenge people to 1v1's. I have seen BMs and Archers fight eachother and seen archers win. Sucks to be you I guess.

MrConce - Harshlands wrote: »

For clerics, before u can do all ur gg skils about relentless and negative interval and blah blah blah, a good cleric will go for instant kill. Like I said, all it takes is a cyclone and a seal. Time is on the clerics side. Only thing archer can do is anti stun pot and or have heart of steel on their genie. If a cleric dies to an archer, that would be a disgrace.

Uh sure, except Stun->Take Aim can also kill some clerics in two shots, adding in an extra shot would make it easier. Grats on a certain class having an advantage over you, I'm quite used to it.

MrConce - Harshlands wrote: »

One point u do have I might try is the stun > timed take aim. That could work, but it involves a lot of luck to get the crit and i believe a spark as well cause like I mentioned before, the good wizard at 90+ has more than 5k phys def along with 3.5k hp+.

Uh most archers on our server don't suck, a lot have demon stunning arrow giving them over 40% crit. Meaning they're going to crit with the follow up shots almost half the time. Luck...? lol @ 3.5k HP btw, that's horrible for a 9x wizard. What are you, pure int with +2 gear?

MrConce - Harshlands wrote: »

Evasion is a nonfactor at endgame. Ive had bms and barbs hit me even with my 30k+ evasion from 79 skill. Ur anti stuns all consume a spark, which u need to be able to kill a bm/barb in first place for ur seal and or sparks. Get ur points straight, either u seal and spark to kill, or u use em to anti stun and tickle the barb/bm.

How is it nonfactor? It doesn't mean you have to avoid all hits, but it will mean vit build BMs and pretty much all barbs will have trouble hitting you, meaning they shouldn't be killing you unless your HP is terrible.

MrConce - Harshlands wrote: »

We all know true skill is not shown by level or ranking or guild. Ive been playing this game for 2 years since MY client, and if u wanna compare ranks and level I have 4 80+ toons along with rankings on both leaderboards in HT and HL. I used to be #3 on PK list in HL about 1 month ago till I decided to give up trying to compete with people who cashshop their levels and pk during their free time. Ur guild doesnt matter, for all I know u could be a non factor or an assback to ur guild in tw considering how many other lv 90+ must be in ur guild. From what I hear RQ is way past dead and im not even from that server. Pk skill is earned through actually challenging urself. Getting one shotted or 2 shotted by higher levels and/or aiding on killin a level 90+ or 100+ along with ur 2+ other buddies doesnt count. Like I said, I 1v1 pvp. Never group pvp. I rather die proudly and die trying than sitting at safe zone and speculating about all the things that I could do or could happen out in the battlefield.

lol "true skill". You honestly think none of those dozens of 99+ know how to play the game? And no my guild isn't dead, but I am one of the very few who will show up to almost every fight when online. The whole "RQ is dead" is "old" RQ trying to make themselves look better.


Yawn, you make so many classes sound hard even though I see them 1v1 often and they're killing eachother with no problems. Maybe it's a server thing.

SneakyStalk - Harshlands

TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »

Thats why archers have mele skills for pvp and knock back skills for pve
Its only at really low lvls you have problems with the penalty in pve. Once you upgrade knockback and mele skills and get a decent weapon, mobs shouldn't be able to hit you more than once.

Alltho mele skills are kinda sucky in pvp compared to range attacks Q.Q...

But other than that i never found the dmg penalty a big issues. And archers are not the weakest class...poor archers with **** gear are, the same goes for poor wizards. A very rich archer is amazing tho.

I got my knockback on lvl 1 QQ lol Ima work on it right away

flameenix wrote: »

I guess you haven't seen 9X archers hit 7k's against lvl 9X heavy armour.

How many lvl50-main-characters haveseen that?
How would you see that? Are you a 9x archer or 9x heavy armor? b:shutup

onemorehit

Well, to be honest, I'm quite with him in this, how would an arrow hurt more from far, but less from close? That's just weird isn't it.. And then you think about heavy armor, where it just bounces off.. Ok.. But that depends on how hard you pull the string.. Because, guess in real life, I bet a gun hurts more from close than from far, even with a bullet proof vest on, as the bullet weakens when it's going trough the air slowering down.. So.. YES. The penalty should be lowered for real.. It's annoying as ****, and the knockback arrow skill sucks ****.. And when I try to kill a mob, I gotta do a whole fking skill rack to kill it, and then use 2 mana potions right away, so that's pretty expensive.. When your arrows are already expensive enough for a normal player who isnt buying gold or anything..