Close Range Penalty Should be Removed?

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

A more realistic mechanic might be to have your accuracy drop rather than your damage.

MrConce - Harshlands

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

No, I'm almost fully pdef shards, with +5 ornaments, hh90 gold sleeves, helm with 69 pdef times 3 and 53 base vit. Honestly, if you can think of any wizard with over 5k pdef without 96 cape then please show me with pwcalc, because it's going to have a pathetic amount of hp. My gear is in no way bad. If you get Force of Will'd, drop. it lasts 5 seconds and has a 20 seconds cooldown. It's also short range and slower compared to Stunning Arrow. Honestly even on the ground by the time they finish FoW and undine you could RUN out of their ****ing range and turn around and use stun when unsealed.


Okay then. I PK with a BM a lot, and we often challenge people to 1v1's. I have seen BMs and Archers fight eachother and seen archers win. Sucks to be you I guess.


Uh sure, except Stun->Take Aim can also kill some clerics in two shots, adding in an extra shot would make it easier. Grats on a certain class having an advantage over you, I'm quite used to it.


Uh most archers on our server don't suck, a lot have demon stunning arrow giving them over 40% crit. Meaning they're going to crit with the follow up shots almost half the time. Luck...? lol @ 3.5k HP btw, that's horrible for a 9x wizard. What are you, pure int with +2 gear?


How is it nonfactor? It doesn't mean you have to avoid all hits, but it will mean vit build BMs and pretty much all barbs will have trouble hitting you, meaning they shouldn't be killing you unless your HP is terrible.


lol "true skill". You honestly think none of those dozens of 99+ know how to play the game? And no my guild isn't dead, but I am one of the very few who will show up to almost every fight when online. The whole "RQ is dead" is "old" RQ trying to make themselves look better.


Yawn, you make so many classes sound hard even though I see them 1v1 often and they're killing eachother with no problems. Maybe it's a server thing.

Lv 94 wiz in our server. Almost 4k hp if not more now (he has sum vit), 7k+ phys def along with +6 Refines. +9 on weapon. That's a decent wiz. You? Ez 2 shot. Force of will is a wiz seal, not archer skill. Stunning arrow is slower, ull get sealed. If u really think FoW Sucks and shoulnt be used, u got sum problems bro. Real pro u are if u think that. ANyways, Try dropping and running, that's what archers do best, yet the wizard can drop down and unless u holy path they will just teleport into you and hit u with gush then rinse repeat.

Correction, bms on your server blow balls. Really, only way a bm is dying to archer is when they crit all 3 times on a spark or have a +7 or more bow judging that the bm doesnt have +4 on his gear.

What dont you get that if it was because of wits and mind strength, no cleric will fight an archer without plume shell and if they do, they will use their 79 skills. On a comparison, clerics have way more ways to take down an archer and way more differet possibilities to defend themselves as well. Dude, im beginning to think your light bulb in ur head has been already burned and you level of retardation is far too high for you to even analize the degree of the simple idiotic words coming out of my mouth. Not like is hard to understand, "go jump off a cliff, i assure you gonna die once u hit the ground". Whats the next thing u gonna do? Tell me its possible to survive? U gonna throw urself over the cliff? Tell me ur location, ill send u some flowers for ur funeral.

Luck is a bish, 40% crit or not considering you have the demon books for those skills, Ud be surprised how much ull crit event with that and realize that it is TRULY a bish. Again, Like I said before, u obvously dont know what it feels like to have ur skill depend on **** chance.

U could be vit bm or **** mana barb, once u get misty forest rings, evasion becomes a non factor.

Yes, true skill. But lets look at how the situation is. You 94 for all i know thats ur only toon. I have 2 years on this bish and 4 80+. Wider range of class knowledge than u have. What do u have on ur side? a little demon/sage spark and sum book and instance knowledge past 90+? pff THat has nothing to do with pvp. Anything that can be learned about pvp is leared through experience of fights, and that u obviously dont have.

And maybe it is a server thing. For all I hear, LC is a disgrace in terms of pvp/tw. Even HT has more action, believe that.

PS. When we talk about skill and wether archers can or cannot kill alll these other classes, we talk about us actually playing the character and experiencing both sides. For one, all you points so far have been from a third person point of view. "Oh,ive seen archers do this and kill that and own this". Well you know what? Ive dont this and ive killed that and Ive owned this and ive gotten owned by that. Not to brag or show hierarchy here, but im the one with solid facts and first person point of view. =]

QTKyuubi - Sanctuary

b:lipcurl Archers are the most feared class of PVP by pretty much every class in the game. b:shutup

Sounds like maybe you don't know how to play your class. I've also seen many archers mostly higher lvls equipt with fists also either for close range melee, or just to get spark. So if you insist on fighting in a bm/barb range maybe you should try that.

Under powered b:laugh yeah sure

SneakyStalk - Harshlands wrote: »

So, we have seen the thread "I should have chosen another class" and stuff.
Lots of archers and every class agrees when they state that our class is the weakiest class. It doesnt matter if you go Pure, Hybrid, Magic or whatever, we are still the weakiest class.

So, with an expansion coming, wouldnt it be fair if the close range damage penalty should be removed? I think a very large poll where archers can leave their opinions about it should be useful, right?

If you still don't know what Close Range Damage Penalty is, try to hit a mob from your max range and you'll hit lets say 2X damage. If the mob is next to you, you will only do X damage at most. No other class have that penalty.

Please leave your thoughs and vote because this might be the chance that we finally survive a bit longer. I know it does not sound logic that the damage from an archer is consistent no matter distance but its not logic that either Pandas, Lions and Wolves transform in White Tigers, right?

EDIT: I dont have problems, Im just afraid that when I reach high lvl and start PvPing its gonna be difficult, since every possible archer claims archers are in clear disadvantage.

SneakyStalk - Harshlands

QTKyuubi - Sanctuary wrote: »

b:lipcurl Archers are the most feared class of PVP by pretty much every class in the game. b:shutup

Sounds like maybe you don't know how to play your class. I've also seen many archers mostly higher lvls equipt with fists also either for close range melee, or just to get spark. So if you insist on fighting in a bm/barb range maybe you should try that.

Under powered b:laugh yeah sure

Maybe because I dont PvP too much yet and I mentioned "im afraid that when I reach a high lvl (...)"

Elviron - Dreamweaver

Although we face the close ranged penalty why do most guides say Viscious Arrow and Serrated Arrow may be just kept at lvl1 or lvled slowly as theyre not require skills for an archer.

I currently use both on tough mobs prior to attacking them normally. Apart from the damage they do on hit, the damage over time with bleed+poison reduces the HP considerably making it easier for me to kill it.

Now couldnt the same concept work in pvp if archers maxed out their Viscious and Serrated Arrows? While it might be true that they may not do as much damage as a crit of say 4K~5k but i guess they do reduce like 3k of the hp over 15 seconds at lvl10 (atleast thats what the description says). Wouldnt this help when combining with crits considering they dont suffer penalty at close range? I saw that there is an antidote for poison but how about bleed?

If you say potting helps, then guess again, the archer is not gonna stand still and wait for bleed/poison to kill you. After inflicting the status archers would use their other high damaging attacks.

I may not the whole picture considering am still new but usually status effects is what bugs most tank classes or classes that have a large amount of hp. In most games i;ve played, archers usually couple status effects to crits and not just rely on crits. If the tank class has to counter status effects and HP loss, trust me its hard considering the tank would have to keep using the antidotes for the status effects and use hp pots.

So lets say, Take Aim -> Serrated Arrow lvl10 (bleed) -> Viscious Arrow lvl10 (poison) -> Stun (unable to use items i guess which means for 3 seconds they would lose the hp drain from bleed + poison and other damage dealing atks) -> Other attacks -> Bleed + Poison + Stun -> Move away and hit again.

Wouldnt the above work or do the anti-stun pots ensure you cant be stunned?

Would like the actual reasons why these two skills are not that effective or used. Is it because of the mana usage or the damage doesnt sound that impressive when comapred to a crit?

Tomiko - Heavens Tear

I agree with MrConce for the most part. Archers have it the worst I think between the levels 80-100(average gear). However, I think with +10 and better gear with high grade shards at 100+ archer is second best killer behind mages. So much depends on what level and what gear you are talking about in this game.

The high grade shards change pvp dramatically. Six equipments can be 4 slotted with high hp/defense shards. Four other slots can raise defense as well. At this level of pvp wizard and archer are the only ones killing anything really. Noone else has the damage output to break past these levels of defense and hp 1vs1 except these two classes.

DarkSniper - Lost City

Against BM's I have stun for 3 seconds followed by aim low for 8 seconds followed by piercing flames for 5 seconds so for 16 seconds all the BM an do is sit there watching me kill him

Ilenka - Harshlands

Hi!
Im Ilenka, Sneaky's wife.

Let me say this clear is NOT that we dont know how to play our class or that WE suck at archers.... is JUST the opposite, at least by now at our level we are very good, despite the fact that we are not rich.

However, this post started just as a thought:

I figure that the close range penalty has a certain logic according to physics. Meaning that longer the distance, harder the hit. So, if we are at close distance, our hits run less, meaning less damage.

This sounds fair, but, what about longer the distance harder the hit.... the only hits we get goods are the crits ones, which are despite the logic pretty random in any case (close or long range) The rest of them all are the same.

So, shouldnt it be also fair that at longer distances (say more that 25 meters) we get the chances to get more crits? or at least 2x dmg?

Im sure we dont suck, actually i LOVE my archer... we are very good dmg dealers.... and you know, we can actually tank bosses and everything...

However, we can be one of the poor ones, since we do waste lots of coins in ammo. Unlikely all you caster classes.... now youre gonna say MANA POTS! well... with all your magic points im sure your mana can recover fast.. unlikely our arrows that dont grow up from our bows xD....

So thats for now.. i guess.. if i remember something else i will tell.

Anyway. ARCHERS ROCK!

b:victory

MrConce - Harshlands

Tomiko - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I agree with MrConce for the most part. Archers have it the worst I think between the levels 80-100(average gear). However, I think with +10 and better gear with high grade shards at 100+ archer is second best killer behind mages. So much depends on what level and what gear you are talking about in this game.

The high grade shards change pvp dramatically. Six equipments can be 4 slotted with high hp/defense shards. Four other slots can raise defense as well. At this level of pvp wizard and archer are the only ones killing anything really. Noone else has the damage output to break past these levels of defense and hp 1vs1 except these two classes.

Damn, Tomiko, Long time. b:chuckleb:bye How youve been? Anyways, thanks for your support. This is pretty much what I have been trying to get across. Archers are great dders, but not great pvpers unless u refine greatly or the other people purely suck. And of course, anyone can drop money on game and be good. That's obvious. But with regular decent average every day gear, archers get rolled over and over again by othe decent pvpers all day after 80+. And by all means, All of my post may seem like I die a lot or dont pvp greatly, I'm far from that, Im one of the small percentage of decently geared archers out there in this server who still show hope for archers between lv 80-100. Only reason why im debatting against em is cause I have met people who have worst gear then me that are just purely good and they know how to exploit their class, hence leading to this argument. On average basis though, most people for me arent a challenge. Just take me as a person who supports both sides and pays close attention to weaknesses and strengths of every aspect of the game. Archers rock. Just make sure at least at end game you +4 your hh90 set and +7 and up ur weapon. Youll be decent. Not good though.

StormHammy - Lost City

b:shocked ARROWS DON'T GROW FROM BOWS? SINCE WHEN? b:cry
lol jk jk

and don't you guys hit hard enough at far range? O.o' every time I go around killing mobs for quests I always see archers drop monsters of all kind before they even get close all the time while I have to run gush spam if they're physical ranged mobs (no time to cast stronger slower spells b:surrender)

also arrows drop from mob you could ask the other non archers in squad to give you the arrow drops... which is weird because no archer in my squad seems to ask for it. *yes I gather arrows too because i'm just soooo poor I sell to merchants for that extra 100 coins or so (T.T)*

but yar mana does regen pretty quickly. especially with cleric buffs b:laugh
I think me has become addicted to cleric mana regen and intuition buff.
along with the advanced spark/ sutra giving back 10% mana but sutra ends up burning more mana. (^.^)'

although no one offers to give me mana pots (>.<)
and I always have others like bm's asking for mana pots. lols~


(actually starting to miss my archer a little for some strange reason )

Kristoph - Lost City

MrConce - Harshlands wrote: »

Lv 94 wiz in our server. Almost 4k hp if not more now (he has sum vit), 7k+ phys def along with +6 Refines. +9 on weapon. That's a decent wiz. You? Ez 2 shot. Force of will is a wiz seal, not archer skill. Stunning arrow is slower, ull get sealed. If u really think FoW Sucks and shoulnt be used, u got sum problems bro. Real pro u are if u think that. ANyways, Try dropping and running, that's what archers do best, yet the wizard can drop down and unless u holy path they will just teleport into you and hit u with gush then rinse repeat.

Where did I say FoW shouldn't be used? It simply doesn't help enough. You have longer range; Stun will go off sooner than FoW if you start at max range. And if you get sealed, so what? 2 seconds casting time means half of it is wasted, and you have to drop for a total of 3 seconds before you can go back and fire off stun again. If on the ground, walk backwards and you're still safe. If they blink towards you followed by undine they have half a second left to kill you. You must be a oneshot?

And I told you to show proof, I don't care about your little numbers. 7k pdef? With what, lunar rings/helmet, full garnet shards and +8 ornaments? lol.. You must be one hell of a joke if you can't twoshot a wizard with 4k hp. b:shutup

MrConce - Harshlands wrote: »

PS. When we talk about skill and wether archers can or cannot kill alll these other classes, we talk about us actually playing the character and experiencing both sides. For one, all you points so far have been from a third person point of view. "Oh,ive seen archers do this and kill that and own this". Well you know what? Ive dont this and ive killed that and Ive owned this and ive gotten owned by that. Not to brag or show hierarchy here, but im the one with solid facts and first person point of view. =]

Or maybe you're horrible at playing your characters.


And really, please type properly so I don't feel like I'm arguing some **** 14 year old, I honestly don't feel like bothering with one.

Legerity - Sanctuary

Elviron - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Although we face the close ranged penalty why do most guides say Viscious Arrow and Serrated Arrow may be just kept at lvl1 or lvled slowly as theyre not require skills for an archer.

The typical enemy of this class is time. The faster you kill the something, the better off you are. This applies for both PvP and PvE.

I currently use both on tough mobs prior to attacking them normally. Apart from the damage they do on hit, the damage over time with bleed+poison reduces the HP considerably making it easier for me to kill it.

You'll quickly learn that they are inefficient. You are still in the lower levels so will have difficulty in certain PvE areas which makes you resort to DoT skills.

Now couldnt the same concept work in pvp if archers maxed out their Viscious and Serrated Arrows? While it might be true that they may not do as much damage as a crit of say 4K~5k but i guess they do reduce like 3k of the hp over 15 seconds at lvl10 (atleast thats what the description says). Wouldnt this help when combining with crits considering they dont suffer penalty at close range? I saw that there is an antidote for poison but how about bleed?

Max Vicious does 3109.1 wood damage over time. The only use you're going to get out of this in PvP is against HA. However, with 3 lightning skills, you're going to quickly forget this skill existed or find it of any use.

A tick happens every 3s, so each time the poison "ticks", the maximum you are going to do is 3109.1/5 (5 because 3 goes into 15s 5 times). This equates to 621.82. In PvP, the damage dealt and received is quartered so you will deal 155.455 poison damage every 3 seconds.

Assuming you're hitting a HA user with TT90 who has no cleric buffs, you're only going to be doing 60% of 155.455 from poison because of the player's poison resistance. This equates to 93 poison damage every 3 seconds. The skill takes 1.6seconds to fire and does base physical. Your base physical against a HA won't do you any good as they have somewhere between 80-90% physical reduction.

So rather waste 1.6seconds shooting a vicious arrow in PvP to deal base PHYSICAL and then 90 odd poison damage every 3 seconds, why not shoot a lightning strike which does 2214.9 METAL damage converted from your PHYSICAL damage?

Vicious arrow is a gimmick skill and that's all it really has going for it. Sure you can find novel ways to use it, but you ain't going to be relying on this later.

Serrated arrow is equally as bad and I don't recommend you level it any higher at your levels as you are limited to spirit. If you want use out of this in PvP, you're going to be only shooting this at Robe users, and even then you won't be doing much.

If you say potting helps, then guess again, the archer is not gonna stand still and wait for bleed/poison to kill you. After inflicting the status archers would use their other high damaging attacks.

Time is the most important aspect in PvP. No decent PvPer will waste time firing a poison arrow that takes similar timing to a lightning strike, nor will they waste time shooting serrated arrow a robes because robes are best defeated by fast normal attacks.

I may not the whole picture considering am still new but usually status effects is what bugs most tank classes or classes that have a large amount of hp. In most games i;ve played, archers usually couple status effects to crits and not just rely on crits. If the tank class has to counter status effects and HP loss, trust me its hard considering the tank would have to keep using the antidotes for the status effects and use hp pots.

Archer DoTs aren't worth the effort. "Tanks" will have in excess of 15k hp near later levels. 90 poison damage every 3 seconds won't do squat.

So lets say, Take Aim -> Serrated Arrow lvl10 (bleed) -> Viscious Arrow lvl10 (poison) -> Stun (unable to use items i guess which means for 3 seconds they would lose the hp drain from bleed + poison and other damage dealing atks) -> Other attacks -> Bleed + Poison + Stun -> Move away and hit again.

I don't know about you, but if I saw deadly shot firing or take aim charging, I'm going to run back a few steps so the shot cancels when it completes due to range issues. (assuming 1v1 PvP).

Wouldnt the above work or do the anti-stun pots ensure you cant be stunned?

Would like the actual reasons why these two skills are not that effective or used. Is it because of the mana usage or the damage doesnt sound that impressive when comapred to a crit?

Above.

To the others, logic does sway towards archers having a harder time near 80s+. Archer gets damage bonus from 1 slot; weapons. Everyone else gets defense from 6*4slot armors and ornaments. A decent geared wizard will >> archer.

FoW seems to have a lot of uses too, and whisper following FoW will just mean a dead archer. You'd need a very good weapon and good armor to make up for LA sucking in both departments to get really far in PvP esp. against Wizards.

A wizard with 4k hp and 7k phys def is not entirely impossible. I just ran a quick full tt90 acrobatic 2flawless cit/garnet per piece and self buffed is 4.3k pdef with 4.6k hp all +6. Mind you, this didn't take into account better alternatives at that level. If a cleric buffed the mage, 7k seems even more realistic.

7k pdef is about 66% reduction. That means an archer with about 7k average phys attack will do 600 per normal shot. Take aim (demon) is 400% of weapon, and say we use 1.3k average from weapon, 1.3k*4 + 7k = ~12k

That's 3k PvP damage, and 1k damage after pdef. With a crit you can barely tick their charm (if you even did). 2 shotting a 7k pdef 4k hp wiz is not very likely.

And Ilenka, longer distance doesn't always mean harder hit in bow/arrow physics.

ColdSteele - Lost City

Archer is definitely not close to the weakest class. If the mob is even getting close enough to you at lvl 55 for the damage to go to close range damage then it's fault of the player, not the class.

Kristoph - Lost City

Legerity - Sanctuary wrote: »

A wizard with 4k hp and 7k phys def is not entirely impossible. I just ran a quick full tt90 acrobatic 2flawless cit/garnet per piece and self buffed is 4.3k pdef with 4.6k hp all +6. Mind you, this didn't take into account better alternatives at that level. If a cleric buffed the mage, 7k seems even more realistic.

The average 1v1 will mean both parties are self buffed only, so good luck getting 7k pdef. Not gonna happen.


Also, I've gotten hit by a lv93 archer using take aim and extreme poison for 6k crits. That's with 53% reduction. Even if you manage to get 66% reduction, it'll still hit for over 4k. 99+ archers have crit me for 4.5-5k, while being fully buffed, meaning 7.1k pdef. Either I barely live or I get oneshotted, unless I'm HP buffed.

truekossy

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

The average 1v1 will mean both parties are self buffed only, so good luck getting 7k pdef. Not gonna happen.

http://www.pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=aad70dd740cb72d7 I'm sorry, were you saying something?

And that's with relatively low refines as well as only using the G7s the anniversary pack has made easy to obtain instead of G9s (or gems) which have also become relatively common and would allow to keep (or exceed) that p.def and have higher HP and possibly even the ability to toss some points out of vit and into mag to deal more damage.

Fuhjeebies - Harshlands

it's not very realistic though is it?

i mean c'mon if i shot an arrow from a bow at 300metres away from you it probably wouldn't even stick in you but if i ran upto yer face so the arrow tip was already in yer mouth then that arrow is going straight out the back of yer skull lol

it should be the other way around if anything 2X dmg point blank and weaker dmg at max range

edit: i disagree with legerity about the DoT skills cus thats how i tick charms most of the time and it works everytime if i have chi

bm's/barbs = viscious arrow lvl 6, serrated arrow lvl 6, stormrage eaglon lvl 2
thats 10k DoT dmg on mobs and bm's barbs have weak resistances to viscious and stormrage
so fire them THEN stun and they can't compensate with a pot charm ticks cus of that and reg attacks then spark and you have metal skills free to pwn with ^^ instead of using er best attacks to tick a charm which is total fail imo

Legerity - Sanctuary

Fuhjeebies - Harshlands wrote: »

...

edit: i disagree with legerity about the DoT skills cus thats how i tick charms most of the time and it works everytime if i have chi

bm's/barbs = viscious arrow lvl 6, serrated arrow lvl 6, stormrage eaglon lvl 2
thats 10k DoT dmg on mobs and bm's barbs have weak resistances to viscious and stormrage
so fire them THEN stun and they can't compensate with a pot charm ticks cus of that and reg attacks then spark and you have metal skills free to pwn with ^^ instead of using er best attacks to tick a charm which is total fail imo

To me, if a BM gains distance on you, you're going to get eaten alive (assuming they are half decent). I wouldn't waste 1.6seconds of my precious time shooting a poison arrow as an opener. BMs are weak against vicious/stormrage? Magic marrow will give them way over 40% resistance to poison and metal. A Barb with tt90 has 40% resistance to both elements. This means that you're going to be doing a maximum of 60% of all listed values on DoT skills, quartered and then divided by the amount of ticks, per tick.

A tt90 Barb will think 90 poison damage every 3 second tickles him. I still don't believe there is much practical use for DoTs unless you want some variation every now and then. If you're dead serious about winning or becoming the victor, me thinks DoTs are a waste of time.

Oh and...stormrage? You joking? I prefer keeping the 2 sparks.

SneakyStalk - Harshlands

"using our best attacks to tick a charm thats totally fail imo"

lol you are tottaly right. although I learnt that the hard way once... but genie saved the day. TS critted 4k and barb died after a Wingspan.
(That day I learnt that crits are dif PvP too LOL cause TS usually crited 13k on mobs) oh well. we've all had to learn something the hard way. Around those days I never even knew about forums and such.

Well... ima keep workiong on leveling my Lightning thingys.

Tomiko - Heavens Tear

Kristoph, FOW is a very useful spell. It's a seal, and seal is one of the few things very hard to counter, and if I recall mage is the only class with a seal. FOW is also almost an instant effect spell, it will go off before just about any other CC skills in pvp. I also think you are overestimating archer range. Try looking at player placement at max range attacking a target and you will see our range is barely greater than a mage.

Look at it this way. You have a light armor mage and archer. The light armor mage has twice as much physical defense as the archer, yet the archer does not have twice as much magical defense. The archer does half damage at close range with the attacks they really need to kill the mage. The odds are in favor of the mage class. So instead of looking at and tumbling a bunch of numbers and "what if's" just look at the facts.

Kristoph - Lost City

truekossy wrote: »

http://www.pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=aad70dd740cb72d7 I'm sorry, were you saying something?

And that's with relatively low refines as well as only using the G7s the anniversary pack has made easy to obtain instead of G9s (or gems) which have also become relatively common and would allow to keep (or exceed) that p.def and have higher HP and possibly even the ability to toss some points out of vit and into mag to deal more damage.

Relatively low refines? How many 9x wizards walk around with +5 4 socket gear, including gold HH90? Good luck getting that belt, btw. If you make everything 3 socket except for cape and replace the belt with a realistic one, you're already down to 6.4k pdef.


And at the above poster, it's 30m range vs 28.5m range. Try testing it, Archer and wizard both out of range of eachother in a duel, and have them run at eachother holding down FoW/stun.

Moog - Lost City

He's right about that. I constantly have diego stunning me before I'm in range to seal him. The extra range of a archer actually makes a pretty big difference. The only time I could seal him before he stunned me was if i shrinked into his range than sealed him right after. But once im done with the animation of the seal I only have 3 seconds to attack and any archer can just run away and proceed to shoot the **** out of me.

And about sleep its good and all but it only has a 20 M range. While fighting a archer its hard to get that close to them as a wizard.

MrConce - Harshlands

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

Relatively low refines? How many 9x wizards walk around with +5 4 socket gear, including gold HH90? Good luck getting that belt, btw. If you make everything 3 socket except for cape and replace the belt with a realistic one, you're already down to 6.4k pdef.


And at the above poster, it's 30m range vs 28.5m range. Try testing it, Archer and wizard both out of range of eachother in a duel, and have them run at eachother holding down FoW/stun.

Dude, seriously, there is no convincing you that youre out of our league. No sane wizard will just random fly towards an archer if anything i would fly up and drop down or drop down and have them drop down. its all about strategy, not about just numbers and facts. and woot? even with 3 sockets and whatever u mentioned above, damn 6.4k phys def, thats almost 2k more than u have? fail mage u are much? You seriously understimate ur class greatly. And you obviously must die often to archers. I can see that, all they need to do is stun u and take aim since u already believe u cant take them down cause facts say so, The battle to them is halfway won already. Have faith dude and grow sum balls to be able to beat an archer. Only at level 100+ with godly equips will archer beat mage.

And fyi, this is not a gramma contest to see whos e-penix writes prettier or correctly. We talking about a game, not about mr grammar america. so face it, stfu, get ur old zippie cups, and suck on this.

3 people who are higher level than u and archers have told u that its not that ez for archer to beat end game wiz, and I see u still complaining, continuing to find ways to justify ur constantly repeating fail points. Grow up and learn to how to drop out from battles u know cant be won. b:bye

Tomiko - Heavens Tear

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/8031/pasteddataf37a.jpg

That's a friend of mine(level 91 mage at the time mind you) defeating NeoNe0, 101 archer and guild leader of WarLord with rank8 military bow soon after 79 skills were introduced to the game.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

onemorehit wrote: »

Well, to be honest, I'm quite with him in this, how would an arrow hurt more from far, but less from close? That's just weird isn't it.. And then you think about heavy armor, where it just bounces off.. Ok.. But that depends on how hard you pull the string.. Because, guess in real life, I bet a gun hurts more from close than from far, even with a bullet proof vest on, as the bullet weakens when it's going trough the air slowering down.. So.. YES. The penalty should be lowered for real.. It's annoying as ****, and the knockback arrow skill sucks ****.. And when I try to kill a mob, I gotta do a whole fking skill rack to kill it, and then use 2 mana potions right away, so that's pretty expensive.. When your arrows are already expensive enough for a normal player who isnt buying gold or anything..

If reality is the issue. Tempest and wield thunder should be a 1shot. I mean hey, its a bolt of electricity on a level that is visible to the naked eye. Thats as much as being hit by a natural bolt of lightening.

Kristoph - Lost City

MrConce - Harshlands wrote: »

Dude, seriously, there is no convincing you that youre out of our league. No sane wizard will just random fly towards an archer if anything i would fly up and drop down or drop down and have them drop down. its all about strategy, not about just numbers and facts. and woot? even with 3 sockets and whatever u mentioned above, damn 6.4k phys def, thats almost 2k more than u have? fail mage u are much? You seriously understimate ur class greatly. And you obviously must die often to archers. I can see that, all they need to do is stun u and take aim since u already believe u cant take them down cause facts say so, The battle to them is halfway won already. Have faith dude and grow sum balls to be able to beat an archer. Only at level 100+ with godly equips will archer beat mage.

And fyi, this is not a gramma contest to see whos e-penix writes prettier or correctly. We talking about a game, not about mr grammar america. so face it, stfu, get ur old zippie cups, and suck on this.

3 people who are higher level than u and archers have told u that its not that ez for archer to beat end game wiz, and I see u still complaining, continuing to find ways to justify ur constantly repeating fail points. Grow up and learn to how to drop out from battles u know cant be won. b:bye

Haha, idiot. You didn't even bother checking the calc, did you? The person used Demon Stone Barrier. Without it that's a little under 5.2k pdef, which would be more realistic, as sage/demon Stone Barrier aren't exactly common. So you're looking at a wizard with what, 4k HP and 5.2k pdef? Yeah have fun with that, you won't be able to do 90+ rebirth properly and you're still a twoshot wizard. I'll keep my 4.6k HP and 4.5k pdef, thanks. Thank you very much, you proved your own stupidity.


PS. have fun sucking at your class, other CAN play it properly


EDIT: And @ Tomiko; LOL duels.

Tomiko - Heavens Tear

Yeah I know it's a duel man, but I was trying to show you I think you are underestimating mage class. Mage is a straight up killer if played right at high level. They can get physical damage mitigation of a warrior, highest magical defense in game, nuke from orbit, and insane burst damage.

Go watch some high level archers and mages with good gear pvp on your server and tell me if the mages don't rip people a new *******.

BTW, I was one of the first people registered on this forum, and made the first wizard guide here, so I'm no noob to the wizard class, it was my first character. I've pvped a lot on private servers as well and mage is the heat I'm here to tell you man.

Kristoph - Lost City

Tomiko - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yeah I know it's a duel man, but I was trying to show you I think you are underestimating mage class. Mage is a straight up killer if played right at high level. They can get physical damage mitigation of a warrior, highest magical defense in game, nuke from orbit, and insane burst damage.

Go watch some high level archers and mages with good gear pvp on your server and tell me if the mages don't rip people a new *******.

BTW, I was one of the first people registered on this forum, and made the first wizard guide here, so I'm no noob to the wizard class, it was my first character. I've pvped a lot on private servers as well and mage is the heat I'm here to tell you man.

I know what mages are capable of, for the most part. I lack actual 99 versions of skills (and the 95+ gear) obviously but I pvp -a lot- and my guildies pretty much challenge eachother to 1v1's over random things, so I see some different playing styles. And from what I've seen, archers are in no way a bad class, they can easily keep up with the others.


As for FoW, yes it is a useful skill, but it doesn't take away that it has downsides; starting from full range archer stun will beat it in speed. Your target can still pot and move/drop. I'd be amazed if an archer could die so easily or be set up for it in those 3 seconds. That would have to be some seriously bad gear. Archers on my server won't get twoshotted/oneshotted so easily.


And light armor mages... are a really bad example. Honestly, most archers don't seme to realize how easily they can kill one with metal skills. Amp/metal debuff followed by a crit will bypass a charm quite easily. Assuming +6 weapon. Ofcourse, if the wizard crits it'll probably be over, but same goes for the wizard wasting his sleep/FoW followed by the archer triple sparking. A triple sparked metal crit = dead LA wizard. You should know how awful LA mdef is.

matthew

Hi...I'm Tomiko.

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=14701

That was my guide. You actually posted in it Kris. And no, I recommend Light Armor for wizard until level 100+. Then go pure int.

Alexeno - Sanctuary

something to keep in mind, not sure if it's been stated already, didn't bother to read through all the pages of posts...

it's not the ARCHER that does half damage at close range, it's the BOW/CROSSBOW/SLINGSHOT that does half damage at close range.

look on the weapon, you'll see a pair of stats like "Max Range" and "Effective Range" or something like that. bow/xbow have 20max/5min, and slingshot has 20max/4.5min (this is in meters)

any class that equips a bow will suffer the half damage penalty at close range. don't believe me? then roll a BM or whatever, go to town, buy a bow, and test it for youself

Kristoph - Lost City

HP/pdef are relatively easy to get up to something decent during 9x, especially 96+ because of the cape. Maybe 95+ if you're rich. So Light Armor honestly isn't worth it in my opinion, the damage and mdef loss make me feel like it's not worth it at all.


Anyway, the discussion in this thread is kind of pointless now anyway. Archers being weak has little to do with halved damage at close range. It makes a difference, but removing that weakness would not make archers much stronger at higher levels, it'd just make them overpowered during their 60's and around there, where Light Armor pretty much shines due to lack of any decent arcane gear and BMs etc not having leveled their pvp skills.