Why Should Veno's Have a Ranged Pet?

tweakz · June 2009

Kowlin Best Lurer? -Not!

Many people believe that the fastest pet (currently Kowlin) makes the best lurer. In some *rare* circumstances it may be true, but I think most that the Eldergoth ranged pets among others are far superior.

Aggro radius is the proximity around the mob that your presence in will cause it to aggro. If your ranged pet for example has an attack range of 6m and your mob has an aggro range of 7m: It only has to run 1m before it can initiate an attack and for you to unsummon! The Kowlin though it's faster is not going to go 6m in the time it takes your ranged pet to go 1!

Many bosses need to be lured off a ledge full of mobs. While other pets have to take a specific populated path, a ranged pet can simply go up to the ledge and shoot.

Some mobs will kite the lure pet once it reaches them, and may cause your lure pet to reset (with multiple mobs coming at you). The ranged pet doesn't have to reach the the target mob. You can also give yourself a safer distance by backing up a bit after sending your ranged pet in because your ranged pet doesn't have to go all the way. Just don't back up more than the distance you're saving using range.

Some mobs are lured around corners. Ranged pets don't have to go as far around a corner to initiate attack so you can gain a more comfortable distance while still being able to see when to unsummon.

The Eldergoth Marksman at lvl 79 has 2499 HP, 5961 Mag Res, 5465 Phys Res, 1025 Evade compared to Kowlin's inferior 2249HP, 5809MR, 4841 PR, and 916 Evade, so it can take a hit much better!

More Pets that are Better for Luring: http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=333132

Marksman Better than Sharpshooter?

-As you can see, there's a negligible difference on stats. One is slightly faster, the other slightly higher hp and defense. The Marksman starts at lvl 41, and the Sharpshooter at 46. The Sharpshooter comes with Bash Lv.5 (not obtainable on Marksman until lvl 80+!), and Roar Lv.1. The Marksman comes with Bash Lv.4, Roar Lv.1 Pierce Lv.1. According to http://www.ecatomb.net/pwi/petstat.php , the Marksman will be 7.8m/s also by lvl 90.

Cactopods vs Eldergoths

It appears that the Cactopods from FB89 Eden (Ethereal Inamorato and Celestial Sting) have significantly longer range than the Marksman / Sharpshooter. The Sting starts at level 89, while the Inamorato at 91. Note that the mob moved in on the Inamorato for this image (may have even longer range):

http://img42.imageshack.us/i/cact.png/

Marksman:

http://img23.imageshack.us/i/marksman.png/

*update:

http://img121.imageshack.us/i/array.png/

-This one shows a more accurate range. In all images, my character is positioned the distance it took to perform Amp Damage. When I tried the Marksman on these mobs: they kited so I could not run a comparison. Out of about 20 Array Protectors with the Inamorato, only one happened to kite, but the inamorato stayed where it was almost doubling the distance of me after Amp! (Amp's range is 10m). It would appear to be useful on the less over crowded mean face mobs, but it is rather fragile as I have trouble keeping it alive if 3 Array Protectors are on it. My guess is that it would be more suitable for Forgotten Frost runs than Eldergoths as it could reach Harpies better.

Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Soft Cactopod (L4) - ~7.3m
Eldergoth Marksman (L41) - 11.7m
Eldergoth Sharpshooter (L46) - 11.7m
Celestial Sting (L89) - ~14.2m.

The growth charts for the 89+ Cactopods are the same as the ones for levels 4-17, and both start at 8.8m/s. The Inamorato will have Lvl 5 Toxic Mist and Lvl 4 Slow. The Sting will have Lvl 4 Toxic Mist and Lvl 5 Slow.

Soft Cactopod Lv90 Stats:
2289 3117 6543 7137 2289 915 0.5 7.1
Eldergoth Marksman Lv90 Stats:
2856 3162 6271 6841 1757 1171 0.5 7.8
*order: HP, Atk, Pdef, Mdef, Acc, dodge, atk/s, m/s -from: http://www.ecatomb.net/pwi/petstat.php

Marksman can Kill Regular Mobs Faster than Herc?

They hit slower, but harder than a Herc. Flesh Ream and Bash are both based on this harder hit so they are ramped up on these pets much more than on a Herc. Herc comes with buffs specifically for it's task of tanking bosses and doesn't leave much room for other kill speeding skills! The Eldergoths are not a pain to keep leveled.

Can't Touch This!

There are Bosses like Shooting Aur (TT1-3) which have short range AOE. If you're not responsible for tanking, your Eldergoth can go untouched leaving you able to set it, and forget it while concentrating on DD instead of healing! Your Eldergoth ranged pet can also place you out of range of a boss's aoe (Emperian Slither, Slitt, etc) while you heal it from further back. When your ranged pet is in range only mode: it forces some bosses (like Chintien) to only use ranged as well. This cuts the amount of damage it receives considerably. In the case of World Boss's that hit about 4 times harder with Melee than with Magic: this presents a cheap alternative to a Herc with Blessing. My Marksman at Lv.92 tanked a World Boss with just me healing it. It took almost 4 hours with my alt Wiz also doing DD. My Marksman has Protect and Claw which helped, but for the little amount of time I paid attention: the Marksman's HP didn't go below 75%!

"A ranged pet makes a nice counter to things that use reflect such as Quillhog somethings (forget the exact name, they're NE of TT) or the snakes around the mantavip area." - Brael

Incomplete list of bosses that you can range only (WIP):

Calcid of the Flame (FB39)
Chintien
Empyrean Slither
Slitt
Suzerix
Resentful Pyrosteosis
Thousand Year Spirit
Cenminator [World Boss]
Chin, Mausoleum Watchman
Hercule Trioc (FB39)
Alphaleus [World Boss]
Qingzi (FB29) [at level 45+]
Blackhole Devourer
Raving Drake Brute (FB59)
Qianji (FB59)
Soul Hunter [World Boss]
Blizzard King - At L100, it killed my Nix. It AoE leeches and poisons (you'll need pots).
Avalanche Brute (Daily Valley of the Scarred boss)

List of ones you can't:

Gargantakong King

-missing a lot, feel free to contribute!

*ty for help on this list:
Brael
Solandri
iceknave
kenlee

Anti-Kiting

You can prevent mobs from some kiting by using the range only attack. *Dependent on your pet's range verses the range of the mob and your location! Edited with new information above about the 89+ cactopods and their greater range.

End Notes

Most pets in the game are disposable contrary to popular and horrible advice, as they can be replaced by far superior pets like the Herc, or Nix (both easily obtainable before level 80). There are replacement pets until then with faster speeds and better skills with negligible differences on other stats. The Marksman unlike a Magmite, or Sawfly is a keeper.

In most case where pet's speed is a factor, the ranged pets aren't outdone. If you're at a legion event, the marksman often doesn't even have to move to get first hit. When you're being chased by a mob, the marksman doesn't have to catch up to come to aid you.

Contrary to some claims, there are non-melee specific skills you can add to your Marksman like Tough, Boost, Claw, Protect, Blessing, and Strong.

Mothergoose - Sanctuary · June 2009

Lol, good stuff. Kowling is so overrated.b:victory

Although I have to warn you, the ranged pets are a technical mistake on programmers' part, all pets are supposed to be melee. They might possibly disable range in a patch in the future.b:chuckle

tweakz · June 2009

Mothergoose - Sanctuary wrote: »

Although I have to warn you, the ranged pets are a technical mistake on programmers' part, all pets are supposed to be melee. They might possibly disable range in a patch in the future.b:chuckle

The original Street Fighter II had combos that weren't put in there by the programmers (mistake also), but it turned out to be a great thing also, and was kept in later versions. -Here's hoping.

Lacrimosa - Harshlands · June 2009

Mothergoose - Sanctuary wrote: »

Although I have to warn you, the ranged pets are a technical mistake on programmers' part, all pets are supposed to be melee.

Er..can you cite a source on that?

Sigr - Heavens Tear · June 2009

Mothergoose - Sanctuary wrote: »

Lol, good stuff. Kowlin is so overrated.b:victory

Although I have to warn you, the ranged pets are a technical mistake on programmers' part, all pets are supposed to be melee. They might possibly disable range in a patch in the future.b:chuckle

I don't agree on that. If they wanted the Eldergoths and Cactopods to have the same melee range as every other pet, they would have done so years ago.

@tweakz :: That isn't contrary to some claims. What those "claims" state is that it's more effective to simply get a Herc than it is to put those skills on a Magmite. There have been discussions about that on these forums, and that is the general consensus.

And if you had bothered doing a search of the forums you'd have already found a thread talking about the Eldergoth Marksman.

tweakz · July 2009

miss post -accidental post

Solandri - Heavens Tear · July 2009

tweakz wrote: »

Can't Touch This!

There are Bosses like Shooting Aur (TT1-3) which have short range AOE. If you're not responsible for tanking, your Eldergoth can go untouched leaving you able to set it, and forget it while concentrating on DD instead of healing! Your Eldergoth ranged pet can also place you out of range of a boss's aoe (Emperian Slither, Slitt, etc) while you heal it from further back. When your ranged pet is in range only mode: it forces some bosses (like Chintien) to only use ranged as well. This cuts the amount of damage it receives considerably.

It would be really useful to have list of which bosses are easier with a ranged pet.

I know Calcid of the Flame (the 2nd boss in FB39, looks like a chicken) is one of those. Use a ranged attack on him and he will toss weak DOTs and a mediocre nuke on your pet. Get in melee range and he'll use a considerably stronger physical attack.

tweakz · July 2009

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It would be really useful to have list of which bosses are easier with a ranged pet.

-Working on that, and updated the original post. I tested Pyrosteosis and Thousand Year Spirit today. -Have yet to see a fail.

Feel free to help with the list peeps.

_wtf_lmao - Heavens Tear · July 2009

very good info

tweakz · July 2009

Tweaked the OP a bit, most notably this addition:

Some mobs will kite the lure pet once it reaches them, and may cause your lure pet to reset (with multiple mobs coming at you). The ranged pet doesn't have to reach the the target mob. You can also give yourself a safer distance by backing up a bit after sending your ranged pet in because your ranged pet doesn't have to go all the way. Just don't back up more than the distance you're saving using range.

Brael - Dreamweaver · July 2009

One more strategy you might want to list. A ranged pet makes a nice counter to things that use reflect such as Quillhog somethings (forget the exact name, they're NE of TT) or the snakes around the mantavip area.

ShadowTails - Heavens Tear · July 2009

Since we are talking about ranged pets as anyone tried out those cactopod (I guess the level 4 ones are the best) to see how they compare to Eldergoth?

moonlife · July 2009

Just to see if I'm doing something wrong or if something's been changed, but I got an eldergoth (the weaker one, lvl 40 or 41, I forgot the name) but he doesn't use range attacks. He melees just like a golem so curious to see if the other eldergoth is doing the same or if I'm just doing something wrong.

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear · July 2009

moonlife wrote: »

Just to see if I'm doing something wrong or if something's been changed, but I got an eldergoth (the weaker one, lvl 40 or 41, I forgot the name) but he doesn't use range attacks. He melees just like a golem so curious to see if the other eldergoth is doing the same or if I'm just doing something wrong.

Against melee mobs, that's what they do. You won't see the ranged attack unless they are attacking a ranged mob, and you have to turn off their active skill for them to just use their ranged melee attack.

Brael - Dreamweaver · July 2009

The Eldergroth Warrior won't range attack, only the Marksman will. All of their attacks are range attacks, however they'll do them from close range if you use skills like Bash, Roar, Pierce, etc as they have to run up close to the mob in order to use them.

CandyCaneNJ - Dreamweaver · July 2009

I have a Eldergoth Marksman and Sharpshooter waiting to be hatched when I am level 41 & 47. I am currently only about to turn level 33 on my Veno. I am curious as to how they compare to my Magmite. It will be cool to see how they do.

Thanks for this really informative post

tweakz · July 2009

Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The Eldergroth Warrior won't range attack, only the Marksman will.

The Sharpshooter will range attack also.

tweakz · July 2009

Anyone a better way to take on Glacix: Wu in Minsha Palace solo without a ranged pet?

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear · July 2009

tweakz wrote: »

Anyone a better way to take on Glacix: Wu in Minsha Palace solo without a ranged pet?

With a 3 attack skill golem with threaten as 4th..... Enough pdef to be able to use my own attacks and heal in between. IT holds aggro well enough that I do not have to worry about stealing aggro. Just cycle through all the skills, with 4 you should be able to fire up one every 2-3 secs.

The golem will use its skills at range (same range as marksman regular attack), if it cannot use regular attacks.

Brael - Dreamweaver · July 2009

The first four can be taken with a Marksman (the 4th is high enough that the marksman will be almost right under the wu, but it can still get close enough). I guess any other range pet would work too, assuming they don't have different distances for the range attack, a marksmans is 10 meters. The rest if you're solo you either have to take the hits yourself (not an option for an arcane like me) or bypass. I've found summoning a herc, sending it after the 5th, and running past into that hallway works. Then the herc can be unsummoned and since the herc did zero damage to the wu, you won't have aggro. Heal the herc, and do the same thing to get past the rest using a combination of attack and follow, the herc will die (atleast at 77) around the 4th one, at which point brambleguard, foxform, and run. I can barely get past them with that strategy, potions would make it easier but I just don't have the inventory space for them.

The other options are to bring an archer to kill them, or a wizard/cleric to heal you.

tweakz · July 2009

Thank you, interesting stuff! Something to note on the skill method: Physical Attack: 1397 - 1707, Magic Attack: 1955 - 2389. I wonder if height of pet comes into play, since all the magic tankers (that may be more suitable?) I can think of atm are short.

I guess any other range pet would work too, assuming they don't have different distances for the range attack, a marksmans is 10 meters.

I think a Celestial Sting may have greater range. I watched part of what appeared to be a solo battle with a World Boss being done with one and if I remember right, the thing was almost next to the Veno.

Brael - Dreamweaver · July 2009

I've seen that too, however when I've watched people use a Celestial Sting on Soul Hunter they're using Amplify for the additional damage. Amplify has a range of 10 meters as well (which is how I got the range for a marksman) so a veno wants to be that close anyways. His attack range is less than 10 so there's no danger as long as you don't run closer. The idea of using a range pet on that fight though is well... dumb, seeing as how clearing your pets aggro takes very little time/effort and many pets will out damage a celestial sting.

If a sting has greater range it would almost certainly be further away, if the veno is using amplify.

I_Love_Pets - Heavens Tear · August 2009

tweakz wrote: »

Kowlin Best Lurer? -Not!

Many people believe that the fastest pet (currently Kowlin) makes the best lurer. In some *rare* circumstances it may be true, but I think most that the Eldergoth ranged pets among others are far superior.

Aggro radius is the proximity around the mob that your presence in will cause it to aggro. If your ranged pet for example has an attack range of 6m and your mob has an aggro range of 7m: It only has to run 1m before it can initiate an attack and for you to unsummon! The Kowlin though it's faster is not going to go 6m in the time it takes your ranged pet to go 1!

Many bosses need to be lured off a ledge full of mobs. While other pets have to take a specific populated path, a ranged pet can simply go up to the ledge and shoot.

Some mobs will kite the lure pet once it reaches them, and may cause your lure pet to reset (with multiple mobs coming at you). The ranged pet doesn't have to reach the the target mob. You can also give yourself a safer distance by backing up a bit after sending your ranged pet in because your ranged pet doesn't have to go all the way. Just don't back up more than the distance you're saving using range.

Some mobs are lured around corners. Ranged pets don't have to go as far around a corner to initiate attack so you can gain a more comfortable distance while still being able to see when to unsummon.

The Eldergoth Marksman at lvl 79 has 2499 HP, 5961 Mag Res, 5465 Phys Res, 1025 Evade compared to Kowlin's inferior 2249HP, 5809MR, 4841 PR, and 916 Evade, so it can take a hit much better!

More Pets that are Better for Luring: http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=333132

Marksman Better than Sharpshooter?

-As you can see, there's a negligible difference on stats. One is slightly faster, the other slightly higher hp and defense. The Marksman starts at lvl 41, and the Sharpshooter at 46. The Sharpshooter comes with Bash Lv.5 (not obtainable on Marksman until lvl 80+!), and Roar Lv.1. The Marksman comes with Bash Lv.4, Roar Lv.1 Pierce Lv.1. According to http://www.ecatomb.net/pwi/petstat.php , the Marksman will be 7.8m/s also by lvl 90.

Kills regular mobs Faster than Herc!

They hit slower, but harder than a Herc. Flesh Ream and Bash are both based on this harder hit so they are ramped up on these pets much more than on a Herc. Herc comes with buffs specifically for it's task of tanking bosses and doesn't leave much room for other kill speeding skills! The Eldergoths are not a pain to keep leveled.

Luring Technique exclusive to Ranged Pets:

You've probably seen how you can command your pet to halt behind you while you run up, range hit a mob and then run behind it while trying to keep it from attacking right away. With a ranged pet, you can simply turn off it's melee skills and have it do this for you (no need to risk taking aggro)!

Can't Touch This!

There are Bosses like Shooting Aur (TT1-3) which have short range AOE. If you're not responsible for tanking, your Eldergoth can go untouched leaving you able to set it, and forget it while concentrating on DD instead of healing! Your Eldergoth ranged pet can also place you out of range of a boss's aoe (Emperian Slither, Slitt, etc) while you heal it from further back. When your ranged pet is in range only mode: it forces some bosses (like Chintien) to only use ranged as well. This cuts the amount of damage it receives considerably.

"A ranged pet makes a nice counter to things that use reflect such as Quillhog somethings (forget the exact name, they're NE of TT) or the snakes around the mantavip area." - Brael

Incomplete list of bosses that you can range only (WIP):

Calcid of the Flame
Chintien
Empyrean Slither
Slitt
Suzerix
Resentful Pyrosteosis
Thousand Year Spirit
Cenminator
Chin, Mausoleum Watchman
Hercule Trioc

List of ones you can't:

Gargantakong King

-missing a lot, feel free to contribute!

*ty for help on this list:
Brael
Solandri

Anti-Kiting

You can prevent mobs from some kiting by using the range only attack. *Dependent on your pet's range verses the range of the mob and your location!

End Notes

Most pets in the game are disposable contrary to popular and horrible advice, as they can be replaced by far superior pets like the Herc, or Nix (both easily obtainable before level 80). There are replacement pets until then with faster speeds and better skills with negligible differences on other stats. The Marksman unlike a Magmite, or Sawfly is a keeper.

In most case where pet's speed is a factor, the ranged pets aren't outdone. If you're at a legion event, the marksman often doesn't even have to move to get first hit. When you're being chased by a mob, the marksman doesn't have to catch up to come to aid you.

Contrary to some claims, there are non-melee specific skills you can add to your Marksman like Tough, Boost, Claw, Protect, Blessing, and Strong.

good info umm just a slight few error being this marksman hits at the 7meter range or so b4 lvl 90 as mine at lvl 70 hits at 7.3meters i think tho ingame being hard to diferntiate also i can do things with kowlin tho that you cant do period luring with a marks man that being i do FF/FC take your pick of said name for forggoten frostlands but the mobs that do "kite" dont for kowlin end of story as kowling being to fast he does hit them even if they run unless you have already lured a mob and the others from said group are on what i call "alert" status as the react faster to pets and such for about 1min after or so and the marksman cant lure a mob in FF properly because of it w/o dying unless you wait till they stop with the "alert" status kowlin can be sent in to lure any mob in FF except the flying ones thats it as they stay put and even then the marks man only can hit the first set and once you get to the second set after the room with both galax mobs that go back and forth and the "rider" mob at the end marks man cant hit them from what ive seen as the seem to be to high but my marksman is good for that but to me thats it as i can lure any mob ingame w/o being hit "unless its a WB ect" and unsummon and send hurc in b4 i get hit or my kowlin dies and my kowlin wont be hit either if i dont lag most times i dont either its how i solo lure in TT1-2 all the way to 2-3 and yes kowlin CAN lure Shooting Aur and YES i can summon hurc b4 anything happens to me and YES i do know how to do this being this is what you do as i dont perfer to have clerics all the time in TT so i select said mob i then TURN OFF all attack skills i send kowlin in and back up like you do with your marksman this tho being quite likly the difference as my kowlin gets to him hits him and i already have unsummoned my pet and am summoning hurc then i hood and buff hurc an send him in that's that as i reposition myself inbetween heals behind a crystal box and i only need to heal 1 time every 2-3 hits so i am fine anddo use kowlin very effectivly also as i mentioned b4 "kiting" mobs cant kite from kowlin b4 he gets to them if you do it this way as he wont reset for quite a far range unlike the marksman so i can send kowlin in and not worry and as it is more times kowlin hits them b4 they even do "kite" so then they "kite" while i unsummon and resummon lol end of story marksman being yes a decent lureer and tank in
"some" situations but not in a lot of them if you know how

Brael - Dreamweaver · August 2009

Are you talking frost in squad or solo? I've never done squad so I can't speak of any first hand experience there, but there's no such thing as an alert status on lure in solo.

That's also not an area where you even need to lure with a pet. Every room is either a small number of mobs or self splitting due to different run speeds on each mob and the entire thing except for 6 of the final 7 Wu's can be soloed (you can avoid the final 6 Wu's to reach that last pillar, so not being able to hit them isn't an issue... unless you don't have curvades and have to run the gauntlet again to make them) at 75 as an arcane veno without using either the Eldergoth or a Kowlin for a lure, I should know... I did it, and soloed the curvades to flag 5 people so I have a pretty good idea of the area, to go along with my intense desire to never do solo mode again.

Basically here's the situations you can end up in for lure, this applies to everything in the game... not just frost:
1. Needed mob is stationary behind other mobs.
2. Needed mob is stationary in front of other mobs.
3. Needed mob is moving away from you and behind other mobs.
4. Needed mob is moving away from you and in front of other mobs.
5. Needed mob is moving towards you and behind other mobs.
6. Needed mob is moving towards you and in front of other mobs.

Every lure situation falls into one of those six categories.
In the first situation, an Eldergoth is superior as its defense is higher. It doesn't need to run through mobs to reach the target. The range difference does anything between making it a faster lure pet to making it slightly slower depending on the range you're initially standing at to send the pet.

In the second situation, any lure pet fails. Just use tame, and if you need it Bramble.

In the third situation you're best off not grabbing the mob and instead letting it path back to you. A Kowlin would have an advantage over an Eldergoth in this situation, because the speed is going to have more of an impact. If a Kowlin is 9.5 m/s, and an Eldergoth is 7.3, with the mob moving away at lets say... 6.5, the Eldergoth is only gaining .8/sec while the Kowlin gains 3/sec. Due to the amount of time the pet will have stuff aggro though, this is never an ideal situation regardless of the pet.

In the fourth situation the Kowlin still has the advantage, but this typically turns into that third situation where the survival comes into play, and you want to avoid it. Just say no to luring something moving away from you. If it's not going to result in a wipe and you have to make that pull right then, you're better off hitting holy path and extreme poison than relying on a pet.

In the fifth situation, it's the same principal as the third but the situation is reversed. Since the mob and pet speeds would essentially combine to close the gap for the lure, the speed advantage of a Kowlin is largely negated, while the survival/range advantage of the Eldergoth is still there.

In the sixth situation, it's just like the fifth, another win for the Eldergoth.

In the situations where the Kowlin is better, it's best to use tame or to not lure in the first place. I don't think that's a resounding win for the Kowlin.

KeikoSoma - Sanctuary · October 2009

Sigr - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I don't agree on that. If they wanted the Eldergoths and Cactopods to have the same melee range as every other pet, they would have done so years ago.

Perfect World International version has only existed since September 2008...

also I've been seeing some "glitches" get corrected lately like farren who wouldn't aoe at all if he was fought with no ranged attacks. It took them a year to do this. Best we don't count on anything 100% I suppose about whether something was intended or not...like Christmas Tomes feeding pets. I have yet to find anything that says for sure that was intentional.

tweakz · October 2009

KeikoSoma - Sanctuary wrote: »

like Christmas Tomes feeding pets. I have yet to find anything that says for sure that was intentional.

Tomes don't feed pets: they keep them from going hungry IF they don't die. It is intentional, I believe I've seen it in a tool tip or something similar. It's not something that would be accidental.

Solandri - Heavens Tear · October 2009

Old topic, but:

I_Love_Pets - Heavens Tear wrote: »

and yes kowlin CAN lure Shooting Aur and YES i can summon hurc b4 anything happens to me

A recent patch removed the mobs which wander on the ledge above Dimentora/Shooting Aur's room. The best way to lure him now is not to send a pet.

Park your tank/herc against the wall nearest the hall with the killer balls.
Put on your pdef gear.
Fire off Bramble Hood.
Go to Fox Form.
Target the boss (very important, or you can't order your pet to attack).
Run at the boss (yes, you are luring for your pet, not the other way around).
As soon as he aggroes on you, step through the teleporter.

You will be teleported to the ledge just in front of the hall with the balls.

The boss will move towards you, right where your herc/barb is waiting.
Tell your herc to attack.
Jump back down and start healing like mad.

This method gets Dimentora/Shooting Aur positioned almost perfectly every time, with very little risk. Worst case you get hit once while Hood is up.

so i select said mob i then TURN OFF all attack skills i send kowlin in and back up like you do with your marksman this tho being quite likly the difference

I've been playing around with this and it does seem to make a difference. It doesn't work all the time, but turning off your pet's skills does seem to make it take longer for the mobs to aggro onto it most of the time. In FB59 I've had my kowlin with skills off frequently go entirely through the 4 guard mobs to whack the boss, without any of the guards ever aggroing.

I'm wondering if this has contributed to people's perception that the ranged pets are less likely to be hit while pulling. In order to force them to use a ranged attack, you have to turn their skills off, so they would be benefiting from this glitch.

as my kowlin gets to him hits him and i already have unsummoned my pet and am summoning hurc then i hood and buff hurc an send him in

Let me reiterate that a ranged pet will give you more time to summon and buff your herc. Since it stops to attack further from the boss, you can run further back without having the pet warp to you. It only buys you about an extra second, but in my experience that one second is quite often the difference between rushing to send your herc in with just one buff, and having plenty of time to get all three buffs on your herc and send it in.

Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I've found summoning a herc, sending it after the 5th, and running past into that hallway works. Then the herc can be unsummoned and since the herc did zero damage to the wu, you won't have aggro.

A variant of this trick also works in room 27 of Cube - the listening room where the mobs which will one-hit kill you make a noise. Use a pet with a purely debuff skill (slow, pierce, howl, etc). Make the debuff skill active. Pick a mob in the 2nd row, and send your pet to attack it. Stop your pet when it reaches the 1st row mob. Let it stand there for a few seconds to determine if that mob is aggressive. If the pet doesn't get killed, that mob is safe to walk through.

Order your pet to attack the 2nd row mob again. Let it run close and stop it again. If you let it run too far, it will use the debuff skill and will probably get killed. But the debuff doesn't transfer aggro to you (if you've ever tried pulling with a debuff skill, you've already discovered this). So you're free to try again. You want to stop your pet close enough to the 2nd row mob that it gets aggro if the mob is aggressive.

Using a cheap pet this way, you can probe the mobs in the room to find the clear path. I use a tabby I bought for vanity, since I don't care about its loyalty and it comes with debuff skills.

Brael - Dreamweaver · October 2009

I had thought about that trick in cube but haven't had a reason to try again lately. Feral Concentration plus fortify on a genie once you get the timing down works amazingly well (holy path too). For lower levels going through cube though, I can see it helping a ton.

Mayfly - Dreamweaver · October 2009

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Old topic, but:

A recent patch removed the mobs which wander on the ledge above Dimentora/Shooting Aur's room. The best way to lure him now is not to send a pet.

Park your tank/herc against the wall nearest the hall with the killer balls.
Put on your pdef gear.
Fire off Bramble Hood.
Go to Fox Form.
Target the boss (very important, or you can't order your pet to attack).
Run at the boss (yes, you are luring for your pet, not the other way around).
As soon as he aggroes on you, step through the teleporter.

You will be teleported to the ledge just in front of the hall with the balls.

The boss will move towards you, right where your herc/barb is waiting.
Tell your herc to attack.
Jump back down and start healing like mad.

This method gets Dimentora/Shooting Aur positioned almost perfectly every time, with very little risk. Worst case you get hit once while Hood is up.

How well does this work with arcane armor?

Brael - Dreamweaver · October 2009

It works the same for everyone, he's referring to rooms 7 and 27 in cube. Those instantly kill anyone that walks through the wrong area. The trick he's describing is to use the pet to find the right area.

Mayfly - Dreamweaver · October 2009

Did you look at what I quoted? The part about luring Dimentora, not the cube rooms.

Why Should Veno's Have a Ranged Pet?

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